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From what I've been reading on the boards, and I could be wrong, the new 04 Foresters will be arriving in the Spring/Early Summer.
I'd be surprised if there is a price increase. What rationale, if any, did the dealer provide?
- Lou
-Ian
BIG bugs, heat, snakes, gators and quicksand.
I remember getting ready to go somewhere and being soaked in sweat before you walked out the front door.
I do like the Shenandoah Valley, the Blue Ridge and the Endless Mountains of Pa. I guess its because the four seasons are well defined.
Currently driving a '99 RX 300 - nice ride, but driving experience is right up there with "kissing your sister" - have always had a soft spot for Subarus and the recent changes to the '03 Forester have only raised my interest more. Not really into turbos though - any predictions - thanx
We'll probably see small additions a la Subaru. In the past, these things have been items such as keyless entry becoming standard or maybe a tweak to the interior trim.
Is there a reason why you don't like turbos? Chances are the Forester turbo will be a low pressure 2.5T or a detuned 2.0T used in the WRX. In any event, the engine will most likely be tuned for low-end power. Also, recent turbos are nothing like those of yesteryear. Turbocharging is a reliable way of delivering good performance in a compact and lightweight package. If you take a look, many European models (VW, Audi, Volvo and MB to name a few) all offer one form of forced induction.
Ken
tidester, host
From reading the service manual that came with the car, they should only be doing the oil change, tire balance/rotation, and some minor inspections of the brakes and other systems.
So...am I getting hosed? I'm stuck with the service now, since I didn't have time to haggle with them before getting to work via the dealership shuttle.
Thanks,
burnsmr4
P.S. - Also getting that parking rod recall done today too.
I called 800-SUBARU3 to ask but the service rep said that she didn't have this "technical information."
At the dealership I go to, they do that for any regular oil change. They charge about what you quoted for the 15,000 and add cleaning and lubricating the brake calipers, rotating and balancing the tires, and a few other items that have little or no value.
Cars require much less service than they used to, and dealers have tried to maintain their service income by packaging in new services that are nice if you can afford them, but not really necessary. It is not necessary to rebalance tires unless there is a vibration problem. Rotation may be a good idea, but you can do it yourself, or have it done at a lower labor rate at a service station or tire shop. If you have a shop do it, however, the labor cost will often exceed what you would pay to replace the tires sooner. (For replacement tires, many tire shops include free rotation for the life of the tire). The brake service may or may not be a good idea depending on usage. If you go off-road a lot or drive in severe winter conditions, maybe.
Many delaers still sell "tuneups" that are included in the major service packages. The only things that can be done in most modern cars are to replace plugs and the PCV valve. No timing or fuel adjustments are possible.
I have gone to my dealer and said just do exactly what Subaru recommends and do no more. The 15,000 mile services then equal the cost of an oil change, the 30/60/90 thousand mile packages that are usually $300-$400 reduce to $150-$180. If the dealer service people are any good, they will let you know if you really need anything else.
Later,
burnsmr4
-mike
It cost me close to $80 to have the tranny and diffy fluids replaced last year (I tow), so $135 for the 15k plus a brake and tranny fluid replacement isn't too far a stretch...
If you're really early, you can put off the next round by the same timeframe.
Hope this helps with the aggravation...
-brianV
As for the changes for the non-turbo 2004, I'm hoping they add back the things that were cost-cut from the 2002 models, like the mud guards and the cargo liner. I think there was one other item, the cargo cover or something like that? Just make those standard again. In particular the mud guards.
I agree with paisan, $135 is dirt cheap for all that they're doing. OK, it may not be required, but please share their name for future reference, my 60k is due soon.
I've done gear oil and it's much messier than plain oil because it's much thicker and stinks like crazy.
-juice
While you did have more than what's minimally required in the maintenance schedule, getting fluids replaced a little sooner is a good thing. Relax -- you didn't get fleeced.
Just remember that the BIG tuneups are at every 30K interval.
For any service interval, you should be able to custom tailor it to your needs. Dealers will typically add more than the minimum in the owner's manual. And in some ways, it makes sense since the minimum assumes the vehicle had been driven under ideal conditions.
It's up to you to know what has to be done and what can wait. Also, little things like the air filter and even some of your fluids are very easy to do it yourself. Investing a little time to get to know your vehicle can go a long way in saving money.
Ken
You're right about my doing it myself. I could if I had the right environment to do so. However, as an apartment renter, there are are tight restrictions on the things I can get away with in my complex' parking lot. And the only buddy of mine that has lifts for changing out stuff under the car lives 50 miles south of Atlanta.
Trust me -- I'd LOVE to do it if I wasn't stuck in an apartment. When my wife and I buy a house, the local Subaru dealership won't be seeing me very often at all. :-D
Thanks again -- if no one's told you today, you guys/gals rock!
burnsmr4
Gene
The 6K package was (I think) $89. I asked what was the difference. They told me and I said wouldnt the state inspection mechanic (yearly in Pa.) do the same thing for $15 or so? They told me yes so I got what the warranty required.
Its still running fine.
Greg
I'll be a bit more careful in the future with this dealership and the service department. The old guy that runs it is a Subaru guru, but I think he's under pressure to charge out the wazoo for stuff too. He offered, after I complained about what appeared to be a NO TIRE ROTATION 15K service, to make sure that I had the timing belt lifter adjusted to reduce cold weather clatter. He noticed it when he drove the car up from the service bay.
Oh, well...
burnsmr4
this what SC dealership includes and charges for at 15K service (as per their brochure), for a total of $277:
--- 3750 service:
1. Replace engine oil
2. Replace engine oil filter
3. Replace engine drain plug gasket
4. Set tire pressure/advise on tire condition
5. Check/top off underhood fluid levels
6. Free car wash
--- 7500 service (includes above) --------
7. Rotate tires
8. Balance F and R tires
9. Check spare, set pressure
10. Inspect brake lining, estimate remaining %
11. Inspect steerin/suspension
12. Check operation of outside lights
13. Check and adjust external drive belts
14. Check and adjust ignition timing and idle speed
15. Road test for proper performance and operation
--- 15K service (includes above)--
16. Check and adjust parking brake
17. Replace air filter
18. Add washer solvent/inspect wiper blades and front/rear washer operation
19. For MT only: Adjust clutch pedal free-play and hill-holder system where applicable
20. Replace transmission fluid
21. Replace differential fluid (front and rear)
22. Service battery
23. Check coolant protection (good to ______degrees F) and Air Condition (cools to ____ degrees F)
Their cost is pretty high, but I liked the results so far. Also, I'm paying with SubaruBucks anyway, it helps to make service less of a burden on the budget.
Ken
-juice
Ken
I just replaced the OEM Bridgestones on my 2002 L with the LS-T's, based on the same info you noted, about 2 weeks ago. Before then - 42" of snow here , but since then, just a few traces. The tires seem pretty good, but I haven't driven in enough snow to really judge them yet (but I will - I recently moved to NH!). I definitely notice more road feel - bumps are more noticeable. I paid $372 with all mounting, etc, but had to special order them as the tire dealer (Town Fair Tires) doesn't keep them in stock. What sort of pricing have you been given?
-Steven-
I just replaced the OEM Bridgestones on my 2002 L with the LS-T's, based on the same info you noted, about 2 weeks ago. Before then - 42" of snow here , but since then, just a few traces. The tires seem pretty good, but I haven't driven in enough snow to really judge them yet (but I will - I recently moved to NH!). I definitely notice more road feel - bumps are more noticeable. I paid $372 with all mounting, etc, but had to special order them as the tire dealer (Town Fair Tires) doesn't keep them in stock. What sort of pricing have you been given?
-Steven-
I got my brand new 2003 Forester 2.5XS in October. I'm pretty sure it was perfect then, and the pictures I took of it don't show otherwise.
I happened to notice today that there are numerous hairline scratches all over my vehicle. There is a scratch that runs along the side of the roofline, all along the length of the driver's side. There is a scratch that surrounds the moonroof. There are circular scratches that surround the wiper wash nozzles on the hood. And a few more.
Anybody else notice this? Take a really good, close look. What is going on?
#9200 of 9218 muffler by dcab Jan 23, 2003 (9:38 am)
I've noticed that silver paint is flaking off our 6 month old 03 Forester muffler revealing a black color underneath. Is this normal? Our 97 Outback muffler is six years old and in great shape. Is it made of a different (i.e., better) material?
I called 800-SUBARU3 to ask but the service rep said that she didn't have this "technical information."
The muffler paint-thing is probably nothing to worry about. I don't have it, but my friend has it on his 2000 Forester. He had the dealer look at it and they told him not to worry. Point it out to the dealer next time and see what they say. At the very least, have them document it so it's on record.
Ken
I just took it to a pro car wash today. I understand that abrasions can happen, but a perfectly circular scratch around both washer nozzles? And one all the way around the moonroof?
This looks like a defect of some kind, like where two different materials meet, the paint is coming off somehow.
Thanks Kens and Juice for your thoughts on the non-turbo Forester in '04.
Kens - its not that I have a problem with turbos, I guess I'm just a little concerned with any addtional maintenance, insurance costs, etc., that may be associated with that type of engine.
Besides, I think the Forester is exactly what it should be - just the right size and power - for me, anyway.
I am hoping to see a few items that the Japanese version gets (eg integrated arm rests, but even more colour combinations would be appreciated.
BTW - thinking about the Premium packge with sunroof - any comments on how it affects rear headroom - I have a 14 yearold whose already 6' tall!
Thanks in advance.
Now I'm home....read your post about how a rough towel would mar your detailing ........thank you ....I needed to read that and now somehow I sense the difference in how we view our machines. I'm saying this in a nice way (I hope) and in an offbeat way your post made me feel good and smile.
lakepop: Yeah, I'm over here in 60 degree weather in California. I used to go to school in Ithaca so I can imagine what you're going through!
Ken
I will be looking for an all-season replacement for my Geolanders in a year or so, thus I checked out the tread pattern of the Turanza.
Looks like a tire that will do fine in the rain,
so the conjecture is that it would do lousy in the snow.
Keep us posted on the real life snow performance,
please.
A local dealer quoted me $23,400, but I suspect that since it's the end of the month and that they're trying to get rid of last year's model that I can get the car for $22,200 or so.
I would appreciate any comments or suggestions on how to figure out if there are any Dealer holdbacks or incentives out there (in addition to the low financing).
Thanks in advance.
- Lou
Those lines you see may not be scratches.
It could be adhesive residue from the wraps that comes with the car.
If indeed they are scratches, well, it is not that you're not observant. A good thick glazing by the dealer can mask hairline scratches until you wash them off. Go wax the car.
-Dave
Anyway, at first I did not notice a great improvement in traction. However, I (unscientifically) attribute that to the fact that there was no dry pavement to wear off the coating of silicone mold release compound on the tire (used in manufacturing to help remove the tire from the mold in which it is made). Also, it takes tires anywhere from 50 to 200 miles to take a "set," that is, to conform completely to the road surface.
The next day, I made a 100 mile round trip on roads that presented surfaces that were either wet, dry, covered with thin packed snow, or a layer of greeze. By the end of the trip, it was evident that, in spite of the tread NOT looking like anything resembling a winter tire, these had grip that was better than either the original Geolandars or the Goodrich Touring T/As that I used before.
The lowest cost for these locally was $106 each plus tax. Mail order from Tire Rack is $73 plus at this location, $9 each for shipping, plus $18 for local mounting and balancing, plus tax on that part. I chose to go to a tire dealer that has a reputation for excellent service and offers lifetime rotation and flat repair, a one year full replacement warranty, and free alignment checks, so I paid a bit more. This is for the 215-60-16 size, that is usually disproportionately more expensive. And here too, no one had them in stock.
Is the Forester generally quiet at 60-80 on freeways? My 96 Saturn sl 1 can have wind noise in heavy cross winds but is fine otherwise..
Thanks...
"aggressive" offer to the dealer. But, if we could swing one with all the goodies for under 23, we might go for it.
Invoice on the std XS is around 21.5, so w/ auto and destination, I figured 22K would be fair. Any thoughts from the gang?
TIA
db in Rhode Island
http://www.autoweek.com/specials/2003_detroit/index2.mv#mercury
Does anyone know?
Gene
I do believe the Forester is quiet for a boxy wagon on the freeways. It's not going to be quiet as a sedan, but that's really an apples-to-oranges comparison. Tire selection also plays a big role in overall noise as well.
db -- Did you check Edmund's TMV pricing for the XS? Lots of Subaru dealers will price from invoice up (not MSRP down). If you're paying within $2-300 of invoice, you're getting a good deal.
Gene -- Isn't that a prototype vehicle? I think the fastest way to find out is to give Mercury a call.
Ken
I'll be moving back to the States in July and plan on buying the WRX wagon to drive around my family (son, dog, and She Who Must Be Obeyed). It's the responsiveness of the WRX and the functionality of the wagon that swayed me over. However, the latest reports I found mentioned an August release of the '04 Forester with a detuned 2.5 turbo and 250-260 hp. A separate report also mentioned an air scoop on the hood, uprated suspension system, and 17" wheels/performance tires. For me this warrants serious consideration because lack of acceleration is one thing that I've always been disappointed with in today's mid-range SUVs. If the release date of the '04 Forester turbo holds true, I may be in a serious purchasing dilemma when I go out to buy my WRX. Personally, I think a similar engine option for the Outback would make just as much sense.
I'd be very surprised if the Forester turbo puts out 250 - 260 HP. My guess is that it will be around 215 - 220 HP. I really don't think it will have more power than the WRX.
Bob
The flip side is that the WRX is such a blast to drive, its seats are far more supportive than the Forester's, and quite frankly it's a better handler due to the overall lower stance.
Ah, decisions. Sometimes it's good to be a consumer...
Ed