Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

psfod3

I also have a 03 Forester x and I find that in the snow there is almost no wheel spin due to a great awd system. I do find that the back does fishtale out easy. I guess it is a light compact wagon with most of the weight up front.

lark6

Dedicated snow tires, set to the proper inflation, may help.

Some of us who own Foresters (I have a 2000) have found that the car is set up to understeer, that is, to exhibit handling opposite of what you describe (to "push" through curves rather than to let the tail slide out) and have installed thicker rear sway bars to compensate. That actually will cause the car to become more tail-happy.

Another thing to check is your daughter's driving reactions when she encounters slippery conditions in curves. If she tries to overcompensate she may actually cause the rear end to slide out - it's not that hard to do.

Finally, even with the best snow tires and one of the best winter handling cars on the market, there are still some road conditions that will cause problems for any driver. All wheel drive can make a driver overconfident in situations where they otherwise would be more prudent.

In my opinion the snow tire route would be the best. In my travels in Maine and northern New England I always saw a lot of Subarus. I figured they were either considered throwaway cars or they had something going for them; that's one of the reasons I ended up in one.

Good luck,
Ed

qbrozen

Maybe i'm off in my reasoning, but I figure it like this: in a regular, let's say, FWD car, you've got 3 wheels that are just along for the ride. In the Subaru, all the wheels are actually putting power to the ground. The slipping that we feel in these vehicles is only due to the fact that these wheels are trying to move the vehicle and not just rolling along powerless. To have one or two slip a little once in a while is not out of the question. Fact remains, however, that loss of traction at ALL the wheels at once is much more unlikely and you will have control in some way. In the other instance, if that one drive wheel loses traction, you are outta luck.

My wife complained often about the slipping factor... until it actually did slide quite a bit on ice one time (not just the usual tiny slip) and she was able to regain control pretty quickly while someone else nearby lost complete control and went off the road. She came home and said "now I know what the AWD is for!"

lfdal

I also have an 03 Forester. I'm no fan of the Yokohama Geolanders that it came equipped with for snowy weather. Next season I'm going with dedicated snows. My 99 Sable was better in corners, although the Forester will go straight ahead in areas that would have left me in trouble in the Sable. That and stopping distances in the Forester are much better than the Sable in the gunk, IMHO, and both had ABS. If you're used to FWD you might have to adjust to taking corners in the Subie. In my Sable I could "power through" a slippery corner. If I try that in my Forester I'll be waving to the back end of it as it passes me. Good luck.

kens

I'm also going to point out that the tires are probably the weakest link. Even with AWD, poor tires will not allow for good traction. I believe Car and Driver did a comparison test with an AWD Audi w/all-season tires vs. a FWD Audi w/dedicated snows. It turned out the FWD+snow combination did as good or even better in all situations except going straight up a hill. If you live in snow country, dedicated winter tires are a must regardless of drivetrain layout.

It also takes some practice getting used to AWD dynamics -- each car is going to behave differently. I find that gently staying on the gas and keeping the steering wheel pointed in the direction I want to go when my Forester begins to slide is the best way to correct itself. The best thing to do is spend some time in a safe and empty parking lot and try some controlled slides.

Ken

jimbob17

We've had a lot of snow here. I think the worst is the inch or two snow before the plows hit.
I have an 03 Forester with the original issue geolanders. They have been great in the snow or the rain.
I should explain that I don't risk my car in the snow unless I have to get to or from work or its a good reason.
I am more afraid of the drivers of the urban assault vehicles who are not aware of their mortality.

rochcom

I mentioned before that we have had snow every single day since the first of the year, and that I am now commuting over 300 miles per week. So, I have quickly accumulated mcuh experience driving in snow with my '98. I noticed that in some road conditions, there is is feeling of lateral instability, but upon experimentation in safe conditions (empty parking lots), I found that much of it was a result of the long suspension travel giving a feeling that it was about to slide. When it did slide, with the new all-season tires I just installed (see report about 3 pages back), it was easy to quickly regain control and keep moving straight ahead. Cross winds (we have gotten up to 40 mph) make this feeling much worse.

When I bought the tires, the manager of the tire shop was talking with a customer about the fact that during the winter, they acquire many "take-offs," tires that come on new cars and customers decide to replace while they are still nearly new. His opinion was that msny people drive too fast in poor winter conditions and thus conclude that their slipping and sliding are the result of the tires, when it is actually the result of speed too fast for conditions. Drive down a major road after the first big snowstorm of the season and count how many SUVs and tractor-trailers you see stuck in snow drifts or in ditches.

In my commute, I notice that when I drive through the city and suburbs, people keep up their ususal hurry no matter what the conditions. But in the rural area I work in part of the time, people have the sense to slow down and allow more time for maneuvers like turns.

One possible solution to the sliding problem is to adjust tire pressures. Subaru recommends 3 pounds less in back than in front when carrying a light load. If you do what many Forester drivers do and set the pressures the same all around, the higher pressure in the back where there is less weight, will move its response toward oversteer. Keeping the recommended diferential should help, and it can be increased by adding more pressure to the front, if necessary. But, then if you carry a heavy load (rear passengers, luggage, etc.), you need to adjust the pressures higher in the rear to compensate.

Dedicated snow tires are also a possiblity, but you may not like the way they handle on dry pavement.

c_hunter

I got the chance to play with our Forester (auto) in about 10" of snow in December. Under casual driving, the car was unstoppable and very well behaved, and I would liken the experience to driving a regular car on dry roads: non-eventful. If however, you get a little agressive, the tail will kick out, especially if you have broken the front tires loose such that more power goes to the rear (ie, floor it!). Same behavior on my LL Bean Outback (auto), and my dad's Outback (5-spd). When you exceed available traction (not hard to do with all season tires in snow), the cars get tail happy. But, the only time this happens in my experience is when I purposely push the cars to have fun. I know if I pushed a FWD car the same way, it would be plowing all over the place.

One big difference: when FWD slips and the front end starts plowing, it's very easy to correct before things get too messy. With AWD or RWD, once the tail gets loose and rotates, you have far less time to correct, thus, it's easier for the car to get out of control.

I'd say the trick is not to get to the point where you lose traction. All else held equal (ie, tires) this is where AWD has a considerable advantage over FWD.

Craig

xccoachlou

As soon as anyone hears information, please let us know about when they will be available, and if there will be any differences in the model line-up.

I am hoping that Foresters get a seamist green or winestone red.

- lou

zigzag7239

I double-checked Automotive News today and it indicates that there's a $1200 dealer incentive on 2002 Foresters. It doesn't mention 2003 Foresters. However, in light of the fact that fitz.com is openly advertising below-invoice prices for 2003 Foresters, I'm inclined to believe that there's a dealer incentive going on for 2003 Foresters.

merrill3

Has anyone noticed a difference in performance between the X and XS - especially the brakes? I am trying to decide if the XS is worth $2000 more, especially after I was not impressed with the brakes on the X I drove. I saw that the XS has the limited slip, EBD, and disc brakes on all four wheels. Do those make a big difference? The other improvements on the XS seem like luxuries I can do without. I live where there is a LOT of rain, hills, and quite a bit of ice, but no deep snow.
Thanks!

zigzag7239

I don't claim to be an expert but I just have one piece of advice for your daughter: slow down. The main advantage of AWD is to help you get traction when accelerating, e.g. from a stop. Despite what you may hear and read, AWD is not intended to allow you to take faster turns on snow and ice - you still have to be careful in slippery conditions. Indeed, because AWD adds weight to the rear of the car, if you're not careful it can actually increase the tendency to slide compared to an equivalent FWD car.

Also, as soon as many inexperienced drivers sense a slide coming on, they panic and decelerate. Unfortunately, if the wheels have no power going to them, they will slide even more (a similar thing happens in a powerboat - when you cut the throttle, you lose control of the steering). The smart driver knows that he/she needs to go into a slippery turn at a reasonably slow speed and keep power applied.

If you look at the brochures of the AWD manufacturers, you'll notice that they don't list AWD under the "Safety" features - it's usually under "Performance" or "Engineering". There's a reason for this: they know that while AWD can enhance traction, it does not magically prevent a car from fishtailing or sliding in turns on snow and ice, and in the wrong hands can do more harm than good. Unfortunately, too many people buy AWD under the impression that it has magic properties, and the manufacturers and dealers are in no hurry to discourage this thinking.

I'm reminded of the ABS brake phenomenon - people bought ABS thinking it would allow them to stop faster, when in fact it only allows them to stop straighter.

I hope I haven't misstated any scientific principles here, but I hope I've got the idea right. SLOW DOWN.

dcab

I don't think that the OE tires are meant for the serious winter conditions. They're only rated "B" for traction on the sidewall. I put Blizzaks on our '03 XS. We've had 100+ inches of snow so far this winter and it's handled fine. Driving in a lower gear in sloppy conditions helps too.

zigzag7239

Thanks for the link. I'm in the market to replace my '95 Passat and enjoy reading about what the designers are thinking.

I admire many things about the 2003 Forester - especially the new dashboard design - and the interviews enhanced my appreciation. But I have some observations and am wondering what others think before I buy:

1) Considering the very refined styling of the new dash, I'm surprised at the fabric and color choices, which don't seem nearly as sophisticated. The base seat fabric isn't bad, but I'm not too sure about the XS fabric. And why are there fewer, rather than more, body color choices in the leather/premium model (can't get Forest Green, or Black/Beige)?

I also prefer the gray cladding, which makes the car look more substantial, to the painted cladding - years ago, you had to pay extra for the gray cladding. But I'll probably get leather so I'll live with it. Just an observation.

2) It seems to me that the cloth armrests on the doors are magnets for dirt and wear. Do owners find this to be the case? (Just wondering in case I get cloth)

3) With all the talk of attention to detail, I'm surprised that the center armrest (even with the optional riser) doesn't extend further forward. Does this bother anyone or do you adjust to it easily?

4) It appears that the automatic climate controls can't just be dialed-in, but have to be held in position or turned more than once in order to adjust (I'm referring to the mode and fan speed controls). Is this true, and does anyone find it bothersome? Is there an advantage to this that I'm missing? I like the layout and looks of the controls but this particular aspect seems un-ergonomic.

I realize that these might be nit-picks but since I noticed them, I wonder why the designers overlooked them and what owners think. Beyond these minor concerns, I'm a big fan of the car. Thanks in advance for any input.

gened1

ABS may or may not allow vehicles to stop faster there is still the debate about that. Straighter isn't necessarily it either. What does happen is that a car with ABS allows the knowledgeble driver to stay on the brake pedal and steer around something as opposed to locking up the steering(front) wheels and sliding into an object in the way.The steering wheels still turn keeping the car in the drivers control.I say knowledgeable because inexperience will/may cause a driver to think the pulsing of the brake pedal is not right and then let off of the braking action.
Hope this helps someone.
Gene

dcab

compare Fitzgerald's invoice prices on Foresters to invoices prices on Edmund's and other sources. I find that Fitzgerald's is claiming an invoice price oftentimes hundreds higher than these sources and what I bought our Forester based on last summer.

zigzag7239

Yes, that's a better way to articulate the advantages of ABS - not just straighter, but with control.

zigzag7239

Excellent point. It appeared to me that the invoices at fitz.com were within range of those I calculated on the web, but I'll double-check. Thanks.

zigzag7239

I saw a few comments here about the Heraud review at MSN.com, and thought I'd take a look. Turns out that even though the review is titled "2003 Forester", he's reviewing the 2002 model. How do I know? Because in his review of the interior, he talks about wood trim! There are a few other clues, but that's the most obvious one.

Any bets on whether he even drove the car?

zigzag7239

Just wanted to correct something I said earlier - Subaru does, in fact, list AWD under "Safety" features in its literature. My bad.

I would reiterate, however, that AWD is not magic. One still has to drive cautiously in adverse conditions.

lfdal

I find the auto climate control in my 03 Forester to be absolutely psychotic compared to the climate control my Sable had - I hate to sound heretical on this board but to give the devil his due, Subaru should take a real hard look at how Ford does auto climate control. I digress. In my Forester once you set the control on automatic, it's going to make its version of the "best" choices for fan speed, vent usage, A/C on and off, etc. If you adjust fan speed or venting manually, according to what I've seen, it will still try to maintain some level of climate control, even to the point where fan speed still varies by itself. The system heats up great, but has a tendency to overshoot the mark considerably - i.e. If I set the system to about 68 on the dial, (arbitrary at best since its not digital), the car will get much warmer than that then back down and then get better as time goes on. For the electo-mechanically inclined basically a control overshoot that dampens down over a period of time. My tendency when I first started using it was to manually back it down when it overshot, but then I'd get cold air where I didn't want it. I've found it best to live with the overshoot and let it runs its course. I believe my wife's 03 Outback's manual system beats the pants off mine in terms of ease of operation. I'd like to see Subaru "fine tune" their system, because like any control system, it just depends upon getting the software and sensors working in harmony. More than you ever wanted to hear.......

lfdal

I've got the beige leather in my Forester. I really like it except if you wear blue jeans a lot, (I do, even for work, as I work in an area that's not conducive to "good" clothes) the blue has a tendency to leech (sp?) into the leather, so you either need to clean it often, or put a towel or something in the seat, or develop a fondess for beige leather with a blue tint.
Another 0.02.
One option I never thought I'd care for but would hate to do without now is the heated seats. I think they're great.

c_hunter

I like the climate control system on my wife's Forester. It's easier to use than the similar system on my LL Bean. Correct, the mode and fan speed dials are more like the jog dial on a VCR: use multiple twists to skip around. But it's not really a problem. I like that the fan speed can be adjusted up or down; in the LL Bean, you have to cycle the single fan speed button to get where you want to go (ie, 1-2-3-4-1-2-3....).

From full auto, the system will progressively go into manual as you override each setting. If you override all settings, the system will be in full manual mode. The in-between seems confusing to my wife, who usually ends up fighting with the system. Personally, I leave the system on full auto, and use the temp control to make it do what I want. Works for me.

Craig

scholli

with my 2002 Forester. While I love driving it - I have 20,500 miles on it (I've owned the car 13 months) and it's been great in the snow - I've had to use Subaru Roadside Assistance to get towed twice in the past 6 weeks. In each instance, it turned out to be a minor problem (first time a sensor, yesterday a problem with the wire to the starter), but I'm losing my confidence in the car. Will it start? Will it run? I've now broken down during rush hour on a major highway and late at night at a vet's office (with no tow truck available for 4 hours - I was lucky that I could get a ride from a friend and get towed the next morning).

Is anyone else having minor but pain in the neck problems? I love having the Roadside Assistance - they've been great, but I'm not thrilled that I've had to use it.

ateixeira

That's a bummer. We've purchased two new Subies that we still own, and neither has ever left us stranded. Twice is a pretty wild fluke, I really hope that's enough bad luck for one owner!

As for the snow driving, my recommendation is to get out in a snowy parking lot and practice, practice, practice.

Sure, snow tires help, but there is nothing like experiencing it for yourself.

Try to simulate several common conditions - test the ABS in a curved, quick stop. Sample drop-throttle oversteer, maybe in 2nd gear (make sure you have lots of room). Practice steering corrections in skids.

I don't mean to brag, but I can take a turn with all four wheels drifting in perfect control. You actually ADD throttle when you oversteer, so the AWD shifts power to the front and that steers you out of the skid. It's counterintuitive so you may need practice.

ABS can be surprising, too, because you expect to skid but don't, the vehicle may actually turn when you don't expect it to.

The Forester is relatively light and has a short wheelbase. The same characteristics that make it nimble, i.e. turn in quicker, make it succeptible to driver error in emergency manuevers.

I bet that parking lot lesson will teach a 16 year old driver more than any driver's Ed course ever did.

-juice

nygreg

;-)

lfdal

In my wife's 03 Outback wagon the heater control is the standard 1,2,3,4 dial. I can see where cycling it through the positions with a single push button would be a nusiance.

lfdal

Does anyone know if the 03 Forester uses all the same headlamps and foglamps as the 02? Looking to upgrade to a brighter halogen bulb and want to make sure I get the right bulbs. My owner's manual doesn't list the foglamps at all, but does suggest I have the dealer replace them. Has anyone tried replacing them, and if so are they really that difficult?
Thanks

p0926

Well I had my first accident in over 20 years two days ago. It was raining and the car in front of me stopped suddenly and I hydro-planed right into him (I felt the anti-lock brakes working but there just wasn't enough traction and/or stopping distance). And yes I was obviously following too close. Having said that, it was really only a light tap (less than 5 mph). In fact the DVD played sitting unrestrained on the passenger seat didn't even slide off. I wasn't expecting any damage because I knew that the front bumper was up to the task, However, because I was braking, the front end did a nose dive and submarined under the rear bumper of the full-size car in front. So while my bumper escaped with only a small scratch, the front end took a $2,000 beating! I probably would have been better off if I just hadn't braked and let the bumper do its job.

-Frank P.

lark6

Ouch! Sorry to hear that, Frank. Atlanta in the rain is no fun place to drive; I say that with 6 + years experience doing it.

Glad you weren't injured. Good luck with the repairs and the aftermath.

Ed

smo615

If you go to the Canadian Auto Show site, click on exhibitors and then on Subaru, they have posted a message there that the 2004 Turbo Forester will share the same engine as the WRX.

nygreg

Sorry to hear the bad news. Hey, it's part of life so don't let it get you down. Not bad considering it is >20 years. Hope your OK.

Greg

kate5000

Sorry to hear about this! But I'm glad nobody was injured... I wonder only why nosedive was so pronounced at such low speed... maybe the bumper of the car in front of you was raised above normal height? I also hope that people in front car are reasonable and won't claim fake spinal injuries and such.

kate5000

On your dilemma: premium XS with leather or gray cladding, I suggest that you consider an option of getting Forester X with "normal" manual A/C controls and gray cladding, and install leather aftermarket. With aftermarket leather, you'll have a great choice of texture, colors, stitches and other things that can make your seats look just gorgeous.

disclaimer: I like gray cladding too!

hypov

Frank -
Sorry to hear of the accident.
Glad that no one got hurt.
Don't think not braking would have helped.
The car in front probably braked hard and nose dived too; hence, raising its end.

-Dave

rsholland

Sorry to hear the news. Glad nobody was hurt.

Bob

kajko

Sorry to hear about the accident, glad you're ok.

kens

I'm sorry to hear about your accident, but am glad to know that no one was hurt.

Twenty years is an eternity. Consider yourself an outlier in accident-free driving!

Keep us updated on your repairs.

Ken

zigzag7239

Thanks kate, that's a great idea - that way I could get everything I want except the sunroof, which I probably wouldn't use much anyway.

Actually, I drove an X yesterday and found the beige weave to be quite nice - I like it better than velour. And it's not as chilly as leather, so seat heaters wouldn't be missed as much.

I could also get the XS, replace the Moquette with leather, and have the heated seats and auto-climate. I had a chance to operate the auto-climate controls and while the design isn't perfect, it would be easy to get used to, and the dials are a lot smoother than the manual controls.

I sorta prefer the single-CD player of the X to the 6-disc changer of the XS, simply because I don't need a cassette player and the single unit has a nice cubby-hole under it - just right for storing CDs or an iPod. I never really cared for changers anyway - I tend to play one CD at a time because my mood changes.

Which raises a question: will CDs fit in the console compartment? Or in the storage tray on the dash? (I usually carry them flat inside their booklets and leave the jewel cases at home - a lot easier and saves space).

Decisions, decisions . . .

c_hunter

fit fine in the storage bin on top of the dash. Probably holds 3-4 in regular cases, more in thin cases or with no cases at all.

We realy wish the radio came with an input jack for hooking up an iPod. I will probably invest in a cassette adapter or RF transmitter, though neither gives the best sound quality. But, it would be better than juggling CDs!

Craig

zigzag7239

Craig, Griffin Technologies has announced a new type of FM transmitter for the iPod that looks to be great. I haven't seen any tests yet but they generally make excellent products.

http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/itrip/

This is why I don't need a cassette player - at least I hope so.

dundas4ever

OK - I've never driven a Subaru - which one best suits my needs. I have two kids - 11 and 15 - but I find 90% of the time I'm driving by myself. This would include 60% in town, about 40% highway. I'd like a fairly quiet ride, decent utility, good gas mileage and some "fun" in the driving experience.My choices include either the Forester, the Outback/Legacy, or maybe even a CRV or Tribute/Escape. I'm leaning toward Subaru in general and the Forester in particular - probably an XS - no sunroof or leather as I think this "dilutes" the value to be found in what is essentially a well-built, efficient car/wagon/suv.
Maybe this should be in the "help me choose" section, but I'm hoping the experienced and knowledgeable folks here will give me an honest and forthright opinion.
Driving a Lexus RX300 right now, but lease is up in May '03 - want to be a bit more pragmatic this time around and believe the Subaru is more want I need versus paying the "big bucks" vehicles like the Lexus command. It's been a great ride, but mortgage, tuition and retirement or looming large.
C'mon guys 'n gals - be honest - let's hear your true thoughts on the ups and downs of Subaru ownership - is it as good/great as I hear? Which model is the best for me?

c_hunter

Well, we own three Subarus (02 LL Bean Outback, 03 Forester XS, and 03 WRX) and love them all.

The Forester is a great vehicle, and I can't say enough good things about it -- fun to drive, great gas mileage, handles amazingly well, and looks great in my opinion. So let me focus on the obvious issues in your case -- if you are used to a luxury vehicle like the RX300, the Forester may be a bit crude to you (even though it is fine by "regular" car standards). In addition, the back seat is tight, especially on legroom, which might be a problem if you need to stick older kids back there. Otherwise, I highly recommend this car, especially compared to the CRV and Escape twins. The CRV has a very spartan interior, is short on power, and drives/handles like a bus. The Tribute/Escape have questionable quality, Ford styling, and drive like an SUV.

I bought the LL Bean Outback and chose it over both the Acura MDX and Lexus RX-300. It is that good. Definitely can compete with the RX-300 for luxury feel, though it will be missing a few of the little touches you get with a Lexus. The LL Bean and all Outbacks have good rear seat room, and ride a little cushier than the Forester (but the Forester handles better). Outback still gets decent gas mileage (about 24 mpg in mixed driving). Outbacks start around $24K, and other Legacy models are even lower. I think they are all great values.

So, in one corner, you have the Forester -- fun to drive, handles great, a bit small, and a teeny bit on the crude side. In the other corner, you have the LL Bean Outback, which is very similar to your Lexus (perhaps more car like). In between, you have the various other Outback (4-cyl) models. The prices tend to overlap the same way. By the way, you can usually negotiate and get most any Subaru for around invoice price or less.

This is just a ramble based on my experience. I really think you need to test drive the various Outback and Forester models for yourself. You will know which one is for you! Both the Forester and Outback have very unique characters, I think the Forester a bit more so.

Good luck!

Craig

wili

Hello,
I need some help.
I'm trying to decide between a Forrester and an Impreza WRX Sport Wagon.

I have a baby on the way--I know the Forrester is probably more practical, but I like the Impreza Wagon better.

Any advice?

dundas4ever

I appreciate your opinions very much. With 3 Subarus in the family, you obviously know what you're talking about! You're right - the best way for anyone to decide is to test drive them all to find what's best.I figured the Forester to be a little underwhelming on the refinement scale, but hoping it's driving pesonality makes up for it. As for the Legacy/Outback, my only real concern is that it's apprcoaching the end of it's current cycle and likely has a major re-do in the works for MY '04 or '05.
Thanks again for your help.

rsholland

Can you wait till late spring, or early summer? By then a 2.5 turbo Forester will be on sale. It should be introduced at the Chicago Auto Show in about 2 weeks.

Bob

zigzag7239

Personally, I think the new Forester has a more "refined" interior than the OB/Legacy, and one of the better-looking interiors of any car. It's not plush, with lots of curves and fake wood, but IMO it's very handsome, not unlike a classic German car. In fact, it was largely the redesigned interior that drew me to the car.

The only thing I don't like about the Forester interior is the Moquette fabric on the XS. I think both the leather and the base weave are better-looking and more suitable for this type of car. I don't think you would be "de-valuing" the Forester at all by getting leather - leather is a very durable and comfortable surface in addition to looking great.

dundas4ever

Thanks. I agree about the fabric on the XS - doesn't really suit the personality of the Forester. Have to admit in the photos I've seen the leather looks great - but - in Canada we're looking at $37,000.00 ($25 U.S.?)for the XS Premium w/leather. That starts to bring a lot of other cars into the picture, albeit without AWD. I definitely want the benefits inherent to having all the wheels working; I wish the XS Premium brought a little more to the table than just "a hole in the roof and dead cows on the seats"! As for the turbo, wili, I've posted before whether the "turbo" will mean incremental maintenance or insurance costs - any thoughts?

zigzag7239

The turbo sounds like fun but as I understand it it will (a) be more expensive (b) decrease mileage? (c) come with larger wheels and tires and a stiffer suspension (d) add complexity (e) come with racier styling, including a hood scoop. These are all fine for those who want them but I wonder if it's really worth it for the average driver. I think the base engine is good for most purposes and costs less, and I don't want a stiffer ride or a racier look. But to each his own.

rsay777

my new Forester non turbo already has me driving like a wild man. It is really hard to keep at 55/65 it likes to cruise at about 80. I'm keeping the radar det going and I'm monitoring the rear view but I really should slow down. People in front of me that have to slow down for right turns and obstacles are frustrating me. If I had a turbo I'm afraid that I might need to take out a loan to pay for my insurance. Bob L