Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

c_hunter

The WRX turbo uses a water cooled bearing, which I assume the Forester XT also has. It keeps the turbocharger quite cool, according to what I have read. In addition, the design of it allows coolant to circulate even after the engine is off. This should pretty much eliminate coking. Obviously, you do need to follow guidelines for oil changes and coolant changes strictly, but this is important in normally aspirated engines too. Personally, I would just let the car idle for an extra minute before shutting down, if I have been pushing it hard.

Craig

lspiva

Hi,

I saw one mesage on this board about future (2005?) Subaru that will be kind-SUV,Minivan. I search on the Net but couldn't find anything. Could anybody tell me where I can find the link or if it's true at all. I would love to get Subaru 7-passangers SUV.

ateixeira

Yep, Daewoo will build a tiny Chevy as well as a Suzuki in Korea. So I guess to compete with the Koreans (Kia and Hyundai), they've basically joined them!

photo2002: yes, I installed the interior cabin filter. It's actually very easy. You do cut out the lower portion of the housing, but all you need is an exacto knife, and your interior is not at risk. If you buy it, let me know and I'll e-mail you extensive photos I took while I did mine.

Renato: the MSRP probably isn't even set yet. They're probably gauging public reaction at Chicago. Don't drool over it too much!

Larry: take pix of that Fujimoto install?

Leo: details are sketchy, but basically Subaru has been promising a bigger sport-utility wagon (Grand Outback?) for some time. It was supposed to go on a GM platform, but they got smart and decided to go at it alone. It'll have 3 rows and probably the H6 standard, but anything beyond that is speculation at this point.

-juice

leo2633

I have a 2001 Forester which did not come with the interior air filter. I added one, and it is simple to do, if your car has the clips as shown in the instructions in Craig's link (post # 9495). My '01 has the clips. However, I recall juice having photos on doing it in his '98 and there was some cutting involved. Perhaps the 2000 model was the same way. If so, juice should be able to help out.

Len

huxley123

If Subaru is considered a part of GM (I am not sure 20% ownership qualifies as such) - is it possible to get the GM discounts on Subaru products ? I know this is possible on SAAB models - but then SAAB I believe is wholly owned by GM.

Btw, the XT looks great -- really tempted to trade-in my '02 S Premium when this one comes out. But then I have put too many miles on the present car and doubt if I will get a good trade-in

ateixeira

2001 was a year for a face-lift, so that's probably when it got those clips, to make the install easier. Still, it wasn't hard even on my '98.

To clarify - there is some cutting, but you it is sort of pre-cut-out, i.e. the plastic is very thin and an exacto knife easily cut through. You don't even need a Dremel or any power tools, just a short phillips screw driver and that knife.

I don't consider Subaru part of GM, so I doubt it. They're more like partners.

-juice

rsholland

that SOA expects that 20% of all '04 Foresters sold will be turbos.

Bob

ateixeira

Could be even more the first year. There is some pent-up demand.

I hope it hits 40% and they come out with a base model turbo, with unpainted cladding and steelies. I'd consider 17"s anyway for a vehicle like that, like Ed put on his Forester.

-juice

rsholland

SOA underestimated the demand for the first-year WRX...

Bob

corkfish

Is it true that the Forester actually weighs 100 pounds less than a WRX wagon? If so, the performance should be pretty impressive despite its poor aerodynamics.

ateixeira

Anyone have curb weights handy for the 2003s?

-juice

kens

20% might sound aggressive at first, but perhaps that's an indication that the XT price won't be so out of whack with the rest of the line up. Aside from the sweet engine, there really isn't a whole lot more on top of an XS.

I'm hoping it's not too far north of $25K.

Ken

tidester

This might give you a hint at what Subaru plans for '05 in the "multipassenger" arena.

tidester, host

maverick1017

Juice: Thanks, that was what I was leaning towards too.

Now, my dealer is charging about $350 per wheel. how much did everyone else pay to replace their wheel bearings? I am totally out of the warranty period, so its out of pocket for me. I wonder if I can do the job myself...Any thoughts??

Mike

ateixeira

Thanks for the link, but please note it's outdated because it says the SUW will be a joint venture with GM, a plan abandoned a short while ago. The info is still useful as long as you keep that change in mind.

Mike: that is CHEAP, at least compared to Mazda. They milked us dry on my wife's 626, it was almost $900. In fact their parts were so pricey we avoided Mazda altogether when shopping for our next car (a 2002 Legacy).

-juice

tidester

The info is still useful as long as you keep that change in mind.

Yes, I just didn't have time to hunt down something more current!

tidester, host

zigzag7239

GM owns 20% of Fuji Heavy Industries, which is the parent company of Subaru. Subaru accounts for about 80% of Fuji's business. Fuji is also into snowmobiles, golf carts, heavy equipment, even aerospace.

Let's hope and pray that GM doesn't start influencing Subaru products.

hypov

corkfish Feb 14, 2003 11:40am

Forester
X: MT 3090 AT 3135
XS: MT 3095 AT 3140
PREMIUM: MT 3130 AT 3175

WRX wagon MT 3165 AT 3220

-Dave

cusafr

First: I like the idea of 210-HP in the Forester, but I'm not sure about a Turbo. I have never owned one and being an older (57) person with old fashion ideas, I keep thinking that the Turbo is just one more thing to go wrong. Can someone convince me otherwise?

Second: It seams to me that I read somewhere that Mitsubishi makes the Turbos for Subaru. Does anyone know if that is correct or not? I am not a Mitsubishi fan, how about you?

--Comments?

CUSAFR

tkevinblanc

The WRX has a turbocharged engine, and its turbo has been robust. I wouldn't worry.

The advantage of a turbo is it provides extra power without mileage robbing-displacement: a 2.5 litre engine for cruising and bopping around, and the equivalent of a 3.2 litre engine when you need to accelerate.

kens

Modern-day turbos are nothing like what you've seen in the past. They are far more reliable and offer a lightweight and compact way to increase power in an engine. While a turbo does add some additional complexity to an engine, it should last as long as the engine itself when properly maintined.

Turbos are being used in far more vehicles today. Volvo, Mercedes, Audi/VW all use turbos regularly in their line-ups.

The turbo used in the Forester XT is probably by Mitsubishi. Also, keep in mind that the Forester XT uses a relatively low-pressure turbo on the 2.5L engine. It's not going to put nearly as much demand on the engine internals as the STi 300HP version.

Ken

allhorizon

Turbos have become very robust and mainstream. I know it's not the same but also look at the widespread usage of turbos in Diesel cars and commercial trucks.

Even if the turbo was to fail at 100,000 miles (and I am not saying that is likely, at all), replacing it is cheaper than the upgrade to a 6-cyl. engine (where available).

- D

once_for_all

just got dampened by premium jumping to over $2.00 per gallon. man o man....

Any indication of where the XT comes in price wise?

rochcom

Saabs have used turbos since the late 1970's. Now, ALL Saabs are turbocharged. The earlier ones, with air cooled bearings did OK, but the later water cooled models have held up extremely well. Some of the turbochargers they used were manufactured by Garrett AirResearch in California, but they have also used Mitsubishi units in various models, including ours. We have a 1990 Saab SPG with a higher output turbo. The original turbocharger went over 140,000 miles without problems, although the wastegate had to be replaced earlier -- not a very expensive repair, around $70, as I recall. When the turbo failed, we found a used one for around $400. It was a messy, but easy installation.

corkfish

Turbos may not have the problems they used to, but I suspect that the WRX and the turbo Forester will require more maintenance than a normally aspirated front wheel drive or rear wheel drive car. I have a 10 year old SE-R that I've beaten the tar out of and it still doesn't burn a drop of oil. All it's needed has been oil, brakes, spark plugs and tires. I plan on getting either the WRX or the Forester, but I expect that either will require much more maintenance than my Nissan over 10 years.

p0926

ateixeira

Yeah, 80 lbs lighter than the WRX wagon. Maybe about the same weight with the turbo engine and intercooler. Corporate estimate for 0-60 is 6.1 seconds, that quick enough for you? Yowsah.

A Turbo should return about the same mileage as the regular 2.5 engine off boost. If you step into the throttle and use more revs, of course it'll add more fuel to go with the forced induction and extra air coming in. So basically mileage will depend on your right foot, but it should be quite good in daily commuting.

On the track, you might see teens. But how often are you on the track?

If I get one, I'll go the extra mile and use synthetic oil, short intervals (3000 miles), and probably premium fuel.

But c'mon, 0-60 in 6.1 is quicker than the ML55 AMG, FX45, and X5 4.6.

-juice

gened1

Juice,
6.1? maybe in stripped down STI trim.
Time will tell!!
Don't believe everything you see in print.
Gene

rsholland

6.1, 0–100 kilometers per hour (62 mph): right of off Subie's Canadian web site. I have no reason to doubt it.

Even if it's .5 sec optimistic, that's pretty darn good.

Bob

crashton6

Turbos will last a good long time if driven with a bit of mechanical sympathy. Let it cool down for a minute before shutting down after a flog. Change the oil often with the good stuff. Some things will require a bit more maintenance, like underhood hoses & wiring. There is a lot more heat inside the engine bay of a turbo car. I believe turbos got a bad rep from when Chrysler put them on most all of it's cars in the early eighty's. It really wasn't problems with the turbos it was the rest of those cars were not up to having a turbo bolted to them & most people that bought those cars didn't give maintenance a second thought.
You don't hear about turbo problems on WRX's & they're driven pretty hard. You do hear about tranny problems, but that's another kettle of fish. My .02 is buy the XT & enjoy.

singsas

Quick question: If one mistakenly adds 4.3 or 4.4 quarts instead of 4.2 on a forester oil change does it make any difference. In other words - do I need to drain any oil or is the .1-.2 quart over OK?

Thanks.

jim

rbleland

Guys, when I check the 0-100 km times (same as 0-62 mph) for the Forester XT on the Canadian Subaru site it says 9.5 sec. Where did the 6.1 come from?? I wish - as I am interested in the XT.

once_for_all

I came back from the dark side (turbo mania) to reality and am wanting to purchase the base Forester X with manual. Dealer says $500 over invoice (which puts it at $19,755) and also 0.9 % financing for 2 years, 1.9% for 3 years, etc. I think the dealer should make some money other than their holdback, but I will try to get him down to $300 over. Has anyone any info from recent purchases, incentives, etc. that might come into play?

Thanks guys for a great forum you have, and the help you have been in deciding Subaru. This is the second new car we have bought in a year (the other was an '02 Mazda MPV for the dw), forums like this and the internet really give consumers a big help in car buying.

allhorizon

Rick,

Go to http://www.subaru.ca/ and follow the 'News and Events' link.

Read the press release titled: “SUBARU UNVEILS NEW 2004 FORESTER 2.5 XT TURBO”.

I let them know about the typo on the XT micro site. Let’s see how long it takes to get fixed (assuming, like everyone else does here, that the 6.1 is correct).

- D

rbleland

so there is a discrepancy between the XT micro site and the press release, both in the Subaru Canada website. I hope (trust) 6.1 is correct!!

declansdad

Let's see...
if the WRX sedan made it to 60 mph in 5.4 seconds (either R&T or C/D, I forget which) using a 2.0 litre engine with 217 ft.-lbs. of torque, why wouldn't the new Forester XT make it to 60 in 6.1 seconds with the new 2.5 litre turbo with 235 ft.-lbs. of torque? Isn't the new XT designed for low-end, high-torque responses? I think launching the new XT could be a neck-snapper!

Just my $.02,

Michael

rsholland

Over at NASIOC, one of the French speaking posters said that the "French" version of the SOC site said 6.1 seconds, whereas the "English" version said 9.5 seconds. Obviously somebody goofed. 9.5 seconds sounds about right for the non-turbo version, not the turbo.

Bob

rsunico

once for all: check out
www.newsubaru.com (look for specials). Its for Liberty Subaru in NJ. They have an X w/ manual tranny for $18,670. Also check out (as usual) www.fitzmall.com. Use both for leverage when negotiating.

c_hunter

I'm sure 0.1-0.2 qts is probably OK. I would drain if it's +0.5 qts, definitely.

Craig

lfdal

I actually asked this question of SOA and got an e-mail response back of +/- 1 quart, which is way more liberal than I would be - figure that .2 qt over is only 6.4 oz more than optimal. That shouldn't bother it at all.

Also, for anyone who does their own oil changes, and would like an easy way to drain their oil, try http://www.fumotovalve.com/ I just installed their valve today and it fits really well on my 03 Forester - plenty of room behind the access cover. Someone on the board recommended it a while ago - looks to be much better quality than FRAM's SureDrain. Also, FRAM doesn't yet make a SureDrain for Subarus, so the field is a litle limited right now. It was about $23.00 with a safety clamp and shipping. I'll find out how well it actually drains in about 3000 miles.

rochcom

Yes, there is a difference between the French and English sites in the performance figure. I can vouch for the 9.5 figure being for the normally aspirated version, having seen it in other Subaru materials.

"...0-60 mi/h en seulement 6,1 secondes (5MT)."

But, in Canada, the metric system has been in use for many years, so why are the specs in mph anyway?

The interior photos show a new radio/CD changer face design that better fits the overall theme of the console. They also show the instrument cluster, mentioning the "sporty new design" but the photo appears to be of the old design instruments.

corkfish

Manufacturer performance times are almost always conservative. This thing kind of reminds me of the old GMC Typhoon.

shoedog27

once for all:

Last week I bought a black '03 Forester XS w/Premium Pkg and Auto Trans (cloth interior). I added through the dealer air filtration, rear cargo net, mudguards,extended console, and rear bumper guard. I paid invoice price of $23,190 and with a little bit of negotiating I got the Subaru Gold Class 7/100K no deductible extended warranty for $1145.00.

Salesman added the heavy duty winter wiper blades at no cost.

With the weather we currently having in the New England it has proved to be a good choice.

Good luck with your quest.

adeel

Hi, I have a 2002 Forester, I have noticed that while driving on the freeway above 60 mph the passenger side window moves if there is a cross wind, it makes a loud shrill sound and I have seen it vibrating and flapping. When this happens the car pulls to the right side. This does not happen on the drivers side window.Is this a known problem and is there a fix. I am afraid since the car tends to moves suddenly to the right side.
Thanks,
Adeel

c_hunter

Are you sure the window is properly closed and sealing against the frame/gasket? The only way this could happen is if the window weren't tightly closed, in my opinion. I would take it to the dealer and have them check it out. They can adjust the glass to make the window seal properly.

Our Forester does drift around in strong crosswind gusts, like any wagon/SUV I have driven, but it's not anything out of the ordinary. The windows seem to be sealed pretty tightly and are quiet. I can see how a loose window would make noise and possibly even intensify the sideforce in a crosswind, so definitely get it checked out.

Craig

hypov

^
I
What Craig said.

I got a question from left field though.

Every time the passenger window starts to act up, were you taking glances / quick looks at it?

If YES, that may be the [possible] answer to why the Forester pulls [veers] to the right when the window acts up. You may be unconsciously steering to the right when you take those glances/quick looks.

Just wanted to get that possiblity out of the way.

-Dave

once_for_all

rsunico and shoedog for the pricing info. I went in today to try and nail something down, but the dealer didn't have any 5 speed Forester X cars in a light color, and couldn't locate one right away. Without a VIN we can't negotiate, unless we place an order. The order might not come in during the SOA special financing period, which I was approved for today. Also, I am being persnickity about not wanting to get a between dealer trade on a "new" subie that has been on the road for more than 10 miles. I may end up with the ordering routine anyway.

BTW, dealer had WRXs lined up like a rally race getting started, at least 10 sedans and 6 wagons. I haven't seen any WRXs on the streets in Central California, they must be slow movers. On the other hand, the Foresters are a hot item, especially the X version.

maverick1017

Went to the Canadian Autoshow on Sunday, saw the XT and the STI. Both looked really sharp. The XT was locked so I couldn't get in and take a look or feel around, but the interior looked pretty nice. The black seats aren't as bad as I had imagined. But they looked like cloth rather than leather. The STI was on a turntable so once again drool only, no touch. I took a broucher on the XT and noticed that it listed the engine as a DOHC, I thought subes went to SOHC design way back in '00. Is it a typo? If its not, there goes the easier plug change dream...:( Oh yeah 16 inch wheel standard, and apparently so is the monster sunroof!!

Mike

rsholland

just like the recently announced WRX-STi. The Forester turbo and the STi share the same basic engine, but the Forester turbo is tuned much milder. Yes, there are a number of differences between the STi and the XT engine, but the XT engine is much more closely related to the STi engine than it is to non-turbo Forester engines.

Bob

burnsmr4

The earlier post about http://www.fumotovalve.com -- is that the same as the FujiMoto drain valve that someone mentioned even earlier?

Also, what happens if, while you're driving, something bumps the lever and starts draining your oil? Is there a secure locking mechanism on the lever or just that little notch pictured on the website. Knowing my luck, I'd be draining 5 qts of hot Castrol Syntec in a nice long stream behind my '02 Forester. :-\

Thanks,
burnsmr4