Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

rsholland

are RHD, not LHD, like ours. I'm sure there are some minor tuning (emissions (?), fuel compatibility, etc.) and legal (lighting, speedometer in metric, etc.) differences too.

gened1

That is great information. Now tell me where can I find the o2 sensor on my 2002 Forester?
Is it in the snorkus?
Gene

akasrp

Your thoughts please.
New Pacifica Blue 2003 X.
Automatic
Armrest/filter/net
tweeter kit
tailpipe.
Sale Price $18, 550.
Jump on this price?
Target price?

thanks!
srp

ps: might be just the thing to get me in a Forester (quick!) vs Highlander...

10years

Grab it! That's several hundred less than the similarly optioned X I purchased back in May after pestering 6 Subaru dealers. Have Fun.

nicdmx

Just sold my college car ('98 Nissan Sentra) and will be picking up a Silver XS w/ Prem. Package this Tuesday. I was originally going to go with an XT but couldn't justify it with the current price of fuel, especially premium, in SoCal.

I was hoping to get some advice from people on this board as to what sort of checks I should do on the vehicle before I sign off on it and drive it off the lot.

cmuniz

Check the tire pressure. The cars come to the dealer with 45 lbs and the recommended pressure is around 30. I would also check all around the vehicle for body damage and get it fixed/anotated before you take the car home. Take it for a test drive just to be sure that it is running ok, eg, idle, acceleration, brakes, transmission shifting properly. Check radio and a/c operation. Then enjoy the ride and welocme to the Subaru crowd.

p0926

And for heavens sake, make sure the steering column cover is on straight! :-)

-Frank P.

lfdal

Frank - you took the words right out of my mouth.

Larry

mckeown

I'm refering to the front O2 sensor. Under the hood on the passenger side, below the snorkus in the exhaust Y pipe you will see it. The wires come up past the inner CV joint toward the engine/bellhousing and there you will find the connector.

ateixeira

Take delivery during the day. Walk around it slowly, twice, looking for any flaws in the paint. Test every feature listed on the Monroney sticker.

On the drive, turn off the radio and listen for any squeeks, rattles, or drivetrain noises that sound out of place.

It's far too easy to get excited and take delivery, some forget to even test drive their own vehicle! And resist the temptation to crank the stereo and drown out whatever noises might be the symptoms of a problem you can catch right away.

Then, enjoy it!

-juice

stoner420

You can't really claim that that's proof of anything (Edmunds long-term test), based on one month's example data! The driver style could have just been totally different than the average too, more relaxed on the go pedal.

Just quibbling ;-)

gmginsfo

Good move on the purchase! My suggestion for tunes: watch the Fry's Electronics ads for 6" and 4" Polk speakers on sale, around $25 and $15, respectively. If you don't have the tweeter kit already, get one from an online dealer, like 1stSubaruparts.com. Install the tweeters yourself - the old covers pop out and the tweeters pop in with no tools required - and then have the new Polks installed by a pro. Forego any aftermarket amp; once the Polks break-in, they'll sound great and you'll have a first class stereo for under $100 all told! Do NOT buy the Subaru speaker upgrade kit; you can get a much better deal in the aftermarket.

ateixeira

Shhh, we have a conspiracy theory and I'm stickin' by it! ;-)

-juice

stever

I just updated my spreadsheet on my minivan last night and my lifetime mpg just went up a tenth. It just keeps going up, little by little :-)

I'm at 85,000 miles and enjoying the best average mpg yet. I figure in another million miles or so, I'll be selling gas back to Chevron.

Steve, Host

ivestorpark

First, can anyone tell me where the oil filter and drain plug are located on the '04 XS? Slide under the SUV yesterday and couldn't find the filter. The only thing resembling it was a silver cylinder with light gold appearing cap (about the size of a filter) on the left side, but it may have had a wire attached to it. Couldn't get a good look, as I didn't have a light to shine up into the engine comparment. I can't think of the number of oil changes I've done on trucks and cars of all kinds over the years. The worse was my '88 Honda Accord, but all Hondas are very unfriendly for the shade tree mechanic. Toyota is the best by far. Didn't see a drain plug either, but got so distracted over the difficulty in locating the filter maybe I just missed it. Also, will probably go Fram. Is there a long and short version of the filter for the Forester? That's often the case, and as things are so cramped in the engine compartment perhaps a shorter version might be an easier fit. I presume that changing the filter from underneath is the best/only way to do it. If that's the easiest way, I don't want to know the hardest way.

Second, I never need or use the crossbars on the roof rack. Has anyone ever taken off the crossbars and noticed: (A) a reduction in the highway noise from the crossbars particularly at interstate speeds, and (B)an increase in the gas mileage (shouldn't matter, but I have a 5 sp). thx

kens

The oil filter is located behind the engine undercover -- it's accessible by opening a small cutout. The drain plug should be easy to see. Check right under the middle of the engine cover -- there should be a cut-out giving you access. Both of these are well documented in your Owner's Manual.

Removing the cross bars reduce wind noise somewhat. They don't make any noticeable difference in gas milage.

Ken

ateixeira

Mine has torx bolts holding the rack on, Subaru provides a torx driver, mine was in the glove box. Comes off no problem.

I usually just leave it on, it's not noisy and I end up using it all the time, that rack is great.

-juice

newsubiefor

I'm a long time lurker, and am thankful to all of you for your great information in the past.

My question is: Why, mechanically, do you have to replace all 4 tires if one is beyond repair and the other 3 are half worn? As I understand it, according to the manual the tires need to be within a certain diameter of each other.

This makes sense to me to the point that each tire needs to touch the road the same. Such that the car can not 'wobble/slip' placing excess stress on awd components.

But why can't you just replace both front tires if the front left is beyond repair? How would the car know, or have any different interaction with the road or internally? Wouldn't the car just 'think' that its going up a slightly higher grade?

I apologize for 1/2 of my sentences being questions.

ivestorpark

I'll check the Owner's Manual again. Haven't read it in over a month. As far as the oil plug gasket, is it absolutely necessary to be replaced every time or is that a ploy to sell you additional parts? If it's metal, why should it be replaced?

c_hunter

Yeah, look for the little "trap door" in the plastic engine shield under the car. Pop 3-4 fasteners out (unscrew the center section and then pull the whole fastener "plug" out) and the door rotates open to reveal the filter. Drain plug has its own hole if I remember right. Some people remove the entire engine shield for better access -- it may be a tight fit in there otherwise, depending on how flexible you are.

On Subarus, it's more of a crush washer than a gasket -- helping to get a tight seal without stripping the plug threads. Once used, the "crush" capability is gone, so you have to be extra careful not to overtighten the plug, but it should still seal. The washers are pretty cheap (40 cents I think), so I just order one with every filter.

Definitely get those crossbars off if you rarely use the rack. It will make a big difference in noise, especially if you have a moonroof. I keep mine in the back, and can put them on in 2-3 minutes when needed. I used to see about a 5 mpg highway penalty from crossbars on a previous car (back when I had time to worry about stuff like that) but have no idea if it would matter on the Forester.

Craig

ateixeira

You can go to Home Depot and just get 17mm crush washers, they cost next to nothing.

If you re-use the original, just use a torque wrench to avoid overtightening the nut. In fact, you should torque it regardless.

-juice

gmginsfo

I took mine off as the dealer was completing the final paperwork before I drove off the lot. The salesman looked on with a scowl, but I've yet to miss them - the salesmen OR the X-Bars!

ivestorpark

It will give me something to look at again this coming weekend. I noticed that the trap door is plastic, so one shouldn't have to worry about frying their fingers. Obviously it would be better to wait 15-20 minutes for the engine to cool down somewhat.

once_for_all

just be real careful with the screws, they aren't a normal type and being plastic, can easily get honked up. If I remember right, it is a half turn and then a pull down that does it. The screw head and stem pop down and remain attached, IIRC.

John

cmuniz

Tom - The tires have to be within 1/4 in diameter of each other since the vehicle has AWD. Sensors keep track of tire rotation to detect slippage and move tourque to the tires with traction. If the tires are different diameters they spin differently confusing the AWD system and potentially causing damage. This applies to all AWD/4WD systems, not just Subaru.

corkfish

I'm not sure if I like the trap door set up. I know it provides some protection from debris, but it seems like it holds in a lot of heat. That said the layout is well engineered making an oil change very easy. The filter is placed such that you can fill it with oil before you put it on so you're not starting the engine with a dry filter. I'm amazed by how hot the XT engine can get. The drained oil literally looked like it was cooking. Synthetic probably makes a lot of sense for this motor and I'll make the change at the 6000 mile mark. Also, I don't know if it really helps, but I put a magnet on the oil filter. Can't hurt.

c_hunter

I changed to synthetic in my WRX for the same reason. Oil gets a little more stress in a turbo motor, for sure.

I was surprised to see an oil cooler on my 5-speed WRX -- most other Subarus only get the oil cooler with auto transmission. I'm guessing all XTs must get them too.

Craig

joybell

I understand the necessity of changing all four tires in the automatic, where you have sensors sending power to which ever one of the four tires needs it. But the AWD system is not exactly the same in the manual shift. I think there is no cross-sensing, but only power delivery to one or the other of the front tires, or one or the other of the rear tires. If that is the case, then replacing both front tires or both rear tires could be done instead of replacing all four tires as would be necessary in an automatic. Or....am I completely wrong?

c_hunter

If you need one tire, apparently you can order from the Tire Rack and have them shave it down to match your existing tires. I would do that next time I need to replace just one, assuming the others were still fairly new.

Craig

paisan

Has a viscous center diffy Joybell, same deal there, if there is a speed difference, it will continously heat up the fluid, thereby wearing out it's capability to shift power around.

And it's 1/4" CIRCUMFERENCE, not Diameter, 1/4" Circumference is significantly less than 1/4" diamter difference.

-mike

originalbitman

Thanks Mike. Perhaps one of the most incorrectly stated specs.

bit

cmuniz

You guys are right....I meant to say circumference but my fingers typed diameter - big difference.Sorry!

john284

I had to replace one of the 4 tires, and I know the circumferences of all 4 have to be with 1/4 inch of one another, but how would you know if the new tire is within specs? I went as far as jacking up one wheel to measure its circumference, and the new one did exceed the specs(but the difference is measured under no load). So what is the best way? I hate to have some specs in the manual but no way to find out how to do it.
-Water

hypov

If you measured one wheel under no load, then the other three should be measured no load too for consistency

-Dave

ateixeira

Mark a spot on the sidewall with chalk, and also a spot on the floor. Then have someone drive forward exactly one revolution. Measure how far it went.

That measures the circumference under load.

-juice

dnestr

Hi, all.

My 2003 2.0 XT Forester got the first 3000 km service today at Moscow Subaru dealer . There is only one dealer, that's sad. BTW, I visited their show room, there' re 16" original alloy wheels the same as US 2.5 XS premium Forester has. Would you want to know the wheel price? 575 USD (!) per one.

I just would know how expensive that wheel in the US and try to understand what can be a trade profit in the area where no competition between dealers yet.

Thanks.

ateixeira

They are pricey here also, just not *that* pricey.

Shop for aftermarket wheels. I'm not sure how much competition there is in Moscow, but in the US there are tons of vendors. I got 16"x7" rims for just $75 each that were being discontinued. Though most rims cost more, usually $100 and up. More for forged rims or bigger sizes.

-juice

chaynes1

Instead of sweating crush washers, torque wrenches, and the like, consider a Fujimoto (or equal) oil drain valve. With a locking (detent) handle and quarter turn operation to drain the crankcase, it's a better mousetrap. I have installed them on my Forester, WRX, and '64 MGB.

john284

I did jack up the four wheels in turns. I also tried to use nail polish on the tire and drive one rotation and measure the distance on the ground, but you have no idea what a 1/4 inch measures up to, it is almost the width of the mark the nail polish left on the ground, plus it is not a clear cut one, so there you go, inaccurate. I am trying to come up with a method and/or device to do the tricky thing

-Water

cmuniz

Patti from the Subaru Team in post # 1667 under "Subaru Problems" recommends that you use a string to wrap around the tire for the measurements.

corkfish

The automatic drain plugs are convenient, but keep in mind they extend into the oil pan and apparently end up leaving some of the old oil because it won't drain. From what I've heard, it's a siginificant enough amount that I won't use them.

c_hunter

I used tread depth the one time I had to make a judgement call and replace a single tire. Of course, you can come up with the delta in circumference based on the delta in tread depth, assuming all else consistent. Basically, just multiply the difference in tread depth by 2*pi and you have the effect on circumference.

My rationale: if I was going to have a new tire shaved to match the others, tread depth is the "metric" they would use. Also, given the high amount of uncertainty in the other measurement techniques (like John mentioned), this seemed the most repeatable to me.

Craig

subkid

isn't that a little overrated issue. That number appears here and there on the internet, but is nowhere to be found in the owner's manual. Owner's manual only reads something like "tires must be of the same brand and construction". Don't forget - it's 2 mm difference in diameter. It would be interesting to measure circumference difference on the rear tires between 28 psi and 36 psi (suggested pressure range).

K

ateixeira

But that's just it - you're supposed to use higher psi when carrying a heavier load that would cause the tires to flex. In other words, they want you to compensate for load by adjusting tire pressures.

Someone had a good suggestion for those Fujimoto valves - use washers as spacers, so it's flush with the bottom of the oil pan.

-juice

subkid

ateixeira,
well, to the point, but not exactly. It's a little bit more complicated than that. Certainly more than the expectation that that thing alone would keep the diameter within 2 mm range.

then, think of a driving on the curved road. Difference in path traveled between opposite wheels is way bigger than 1/4 inch (2 * car width * percentage of circle traveled in curve) and front and rear differentials (open ones) compensate for that all the time. What's the difference in rotation between front and rear shafts is anybody's guess - front and rear wheels of the car don't follow exactly the same path. And, that's being handled by the center differential all the time. So if one tire is insignificantly bigger, that wouldn't be different than driving on the route where there is more right curves than left ones (for example)

Just throwing some thoughts, without intention to get into the scientific discussion (we could do that, but let leave it for some weekend with the bad wether)

I've seen fujimoto valves cut straight across the thread for a couple of mms, so that there is a path for oil to leak.

K

ateixeira

I agree - the differentials have a certain amount of tolerance. Good point.

But let's say you put one new tire, just for this example let's call it the right front.

When you make a left turn, the right front wheel takes a wider path than the left front, which is normal.

But if that right front tire is also new, and the left front is worn significantly, the difference is even greater, i.e. more tolerance than the AWD system is meant to handle.

Short-term, I doubt it matters. Tires will scrub off any small difference. Turns are usually short.

Different sized wheels force the differentials to work all the time, in a straight line, perhaps for hours. That's another factor.

I'm sure Subaru is playing it safe, kind of like their tow ratings, which in the USA are around 2000 lbs, while UK customers are allowed 3960!

-juice

originalbitman

From My.Subaru.com:

On All-Wheel Drive (AWD) vehicles, it is extremely important that the rolling or outer circumferences of the tires be within 1/4 inch of each other. This means that you must physically measure the size of the tire. This is best done with the weight of the vehicle off the tire and at the tread centerline. Also be certain that the tires are properly inflated since this can affect your readings.

If you need to replace just one tire, the same holds true. The measured difference in circumference between the replacement tire and the other tires on the vehicle cannot exceed 1/4 inch.

Depending on the vehicle mileage, it might be better to replace all four tires.

If the vehicle mileage is low and the tires have been rotated and driven at the proper inflation pressures, then you may be within the allowable 1/4-inch difference in circumference.

If the difference between the new/replacement tire and the current tires is within this 1/4-nch maximum, then the tire should be compatible. If it is not, then other tires will need to be replaced to conform to the 1/4-inch rule.

Exceeding this 1/4-inch difference in tire circumference can place unnecessary wear on drivetrain components, possibly causing them to wear out prematurely.

bit

speterson1

All this talk about tire circumference has got me paranoid. With the heavier part of our Forester up front (i.e. the engine, plus we usually have an empty rear hatch), I typically keep the front tires at 34 psi and the rears at 32. Is this difference enough to affect the circumference and ergo the AWD system?

Also, I'll be in the market for tires soon since our OEM Duelers have 35,500 miles on them (tread is still pretty decent on them though). I have a Forester L with the 15 inch tires, and I noticed on Tire Rack that Dunlop SP5000's, which come highly recommended by lots of people on this board, aren't available in the 15 inch size. Anyone with an L recommend some other kind of all-season tire? I'm in Illinois so we see all four seasons, and all-around good response between dry, wet, and snowy conditions would be preferred. Thanks in advance for any feedback.

paisan

Shouldn't be effected by pressure, there was a big discussion on this over at the trooper board on here, and the concensus was that pressure won't effect the rolling circumference.

-Mike

capriracer

A rule of thumb:

The rolling circumference of a tire is 97% of the unloaded circumference. (In other words, it's 3% smaller)

Rolling circumference doesn't change much with inflation pressure in the normal operating range. Rolling circumference also doesn't change much with load in the normal operating range.

Hope this helps.