2001 - 2006 Honda CR-Vs

ssoto1

nice pix's where did u get the 2 tone at.

jit1

sfbayarea,

i live in the south bay and my survey was limited to: Los Gatos, Anderson, Stevens Creek, Menlo, Capitol and Auto Mall. I got the $600 below msrp from Capitol, and everybody else was willing to match it. Finally bought it from Capitol (from the fleet manager, Kevin).

FWIW, a friend told me that better deals are available in the East Bay, but I have not heard real numbers.

Hope this helps...

muckyduck

If it is a software problem, then every cr-v made should have this problem. Just like Microsoft - they have a bug in their code it will affect every computer, not just a few.

varmint

Muckyduck - True, but not every CR-V is driven in the same conditions or in the same manner. The software glitch may be a bogus reaction to specific input. If your car doesn't see that input, you don't see the glitch.

I think it's too soon to tell. If there is a fix for the problem, we'll find the TSB sooner or later.

varmint

BTW, great looking leather. I had my '99 done with a grey color that matches the interior well enough. I think I like the contrast on your two-tone better.

carguy62

For those who have followed this CEL saga I am starting to believe Honda doesn't know what the heck is going on.

I personally got two completely different explanations from two Service Managers. Now someone else is reporting that they had code P1164 and their service said it IS the Oxygen Sensor but a fix is not available.

So which is it Honda? Is it a computer software problem that is causing the CEL or is P1164 telling them it is a bad oxygen sensor but they don't have one that works?

I will be contacting Honda today to let them know about my disatisfaction and to start a paper trail for this.

Sorry to say but this isn't the Honda I remember.

towelman

As I understand, the error code seems to point to the oxygen sensor, but actually is a software problem. The technician is now able to download a fix directly into the car's computer. Please forgive me for not being very savvy on the technical terms.

cgphil1

The CEL comes on, on my 98 Accord at least every six months or so, but each time it is because of a dirty air cleaner filter. The light disappears as soon as I replace it with a new filter. If you are experiencing the same problem, you may want to check this out also.
Hope this helps.

Clive

theracoon

Probably because we're talking about independent Honda dealers. While Honda may know about the problem and is working on a solution, individual Honda dealerships, or even different service writers at a specific dealership, may not be aware of the problem. Or they may not communicate clearly the details of the problem, incorrectly assuming (perhaps) that all we as owners care about is that the problem is fixed.

For example, the dealership that said it's an oxygen sensor problem but a fix isn't available yet obviously knew about the problem, but didn't go into the detail that that error code pointed to an oxygen sensor problem, but it really was a software problem, and the fix isn't available.

That's the value of forums like this. That we can share and discuss the information we each learn about our vehicles and by reading other postings learn more. That way we can more effectively interact with the dealer or service personnel when we have too. Yes, it would be nice if every Honda dealer had outstanding people who could immediately diagnose and resolve any problems with our vehicles. But it isn't a perfect world.

JM2C

carguy62

They read the exact thing off of their computer that one of the service people I talked to told me.

Certain driving conditions will cause the CEL. If it is code P1164, just reset the CEL. A software fix will be available in May.

So towelman, who told you a fix is available now?

He seemed to think they will not notify owners (not a recall). Makes no sense to me. They know there is a problem but they won't tell the owners.

One person is on their third CEL. I know what I would do if that were me. Hopefully they will have a fix before I have my second.

theracoon

I think Varmint posted a comment about this earlier in the week.

A recall is only issued for a safety related problem. Since this isn't a safety related problem, a Technical Service Bulletin would distributed to dealers when the fix is available, and after that time anyone having the problem would receive the fix. Hopefully. Of course that leads us back to the discussion about dealers who don't keep up on information from Honda and how to deal with them.

And if you don't have the problem why should you expect Honda to fix it? If every 2002 CR-V were experiencing the problem I'd expect to have heard about it in the press, not just from a relatively few (when compared to the number of 2002 CR-Vs sold so far) postings on message boards like this.

Please understand me, I agree with you that this is a problem, even though I don't (yet) own a 2002 CR-V. I just don't think it's a big enough deal to be getting overly upset about now. Honda has said they know about it, are in the process of fixing it, and until the fix is available just reset the check engine light. They've even said when they expect the fix to be available. I think the time to get upset would be on May 31st when the fix isn't available, or if the check engine light comes on (again) after the fix has been applied.

JM2C

muckyduck

I've had my EX less than a week and am having problems with the cladding I had the dealer install. The driver's side door piece has shifted so that when the door is opened the front edge gets underneath the back edge of the piece on the fender. I can barely open my door enough to get in or out. Looking at what it does while standing outside and opening the door, it appears that the glue is not adhered properly. It appears to be tempature related - sitting out in the sun seems to make it worst. So far, none of the other pieces appear to have a problem. Going to dealer tomorrow - hope this is not a sign of things to come.

varmint

"He seemed to think they will not notify owners (not a recall). Makes no sense to me. They know there is a problem but they won't tell the owners."

I think I can elaborate on that one...

Many owners do not see this particular problem. So they don't need to fix it. It's not like a light on the dashboard is going to cause the car to suddenly rollover or fall apart. The car can be driven whether the owner knows about the problem or not. So Honda issues a TSB and fix only those cars that have the problem.

Bottom line: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

theracoon

Sounds like the dealer didn't apply that piece correctly, but you never know. Let us know what happens!

muckyduck

There is an extremely small percentage of people that own a cr-v that use these message boards. This CEL problem could be widespread. Doubt it would make it to any press organization though unless it was reported to them by enough people having this problem. And since it does not appear to be a safety issue, doubt the media would consider it.

varmint

Muckyduck - The first person to report a sighting of the side cladding noted that it didn't seem installed properly. Uneven gaps and whatnot. For anyone else thinking about this option, I'd recommend doing it yourself or with the assistance of someone who is very... umm... detail-oriented.

With the CR-V's very narrow panel gaps, I can see how a misaligned piece of cladding would become a problem. Take it back to the dealer and see what they can do with the adhesive. It may be possible to reposition the cladding. Just make sure it sets properly.

Regarding the CEL. Or it could be that this site overrepresents the issue. I keep track of several boards, though I don't post on all of them. I've seen this issue reported on most all of them, but typically reposted by the same people. However, I've also seen as many people report that they do not have the problem.

theracoon

Agreed, the number of people who read this and other CR-V boards is relatively small compared to the total number of 2002 CR-Vs sold to date.

Extrapolating from the sales figures I've seen for January and February, there have been over 30,000 2002 CR-Vs sold since it was introduced. If only 1% of the owners visited here (and Hondasuv.com where I also lurk), that's 300 people. And I've only seen 5 or 6 different owners with the problem.

Pretty small number with the problem...but I could be wrong.

carguy62

We all know that as a percentage very few owners come here. Quite a few here and other places are reporting this issue, I suppose a few are duplicates (me included). Obviously not 100% but I don't know if relatively few describes it. How many people already had their O2 sensors needlessly replaced?

I don't know enough about the electronics but why would some have an issue and others don't? They seemed to equate it to certain driving conditions. I drive the same roads that dozens of other new CR-Vs drive on. Why wouldn't they have the problem? Or is it really as simple as a computer problem?

I am trying to keep a perspective but how am I to be assured that if I have a problem with my vehicle they don't attribute it to this "computer glitch". One result of a bad sensor is low mileage. Now they have a built in reason to again tell you there is nothing wrong with your vehicle. I'm jaded I admit it and this just adds fuel to the fire.

theracoon

And then there's Varmint, who seems to have copious amounts of time to visit every place on the internet where the name Honda CR-V is even whispered...

;D

carguy62

I have yet to see the Feb. figures. The site I used still has Jan. Anyone know or have a link? Thanks

varmint

Shush, my boss is looking....

Actually, I have a job that requires some use of the net. I just keep an extra browser open for fun.

varmint

Oh yeah, sales...

The November figures were mixed with both old and new models. Total was about 9K. December sold 11K. January sold 13K. February was another 11K.

varmint

Here's a link with Honda sales data.

http://hondanews.com/forms/corp/sales/index.html

storyteller

carguy: I frequent boards for Altima, Passat, Camry, Accord and all the many Subaru boards. Every one of them has flareups of CEL frustration. CEL problems are endemic to modern cars; what varies most is how freaked out people get about them.

I gather that CEL problems are mostly caused by the complexity of modern engines (many sensors feed data to that one CEL light) and the severe restrictions of emissions standards that require engines to be tuned so they operate within narrow limits.

Most people eventually solve the CEL problems, but it isn't always easy to find the culprit since so many things have that result. And then some folks solve it the old-fashioned way: with a piece of black tape.

Good luck.

muckyduck

If there were, then that would actually give a good sampling. One could get into the math of sampling theory, which I know a little about, but these message boards cannot and should not be used to judge what is or is not a problem. Too bad car companies have not moved into this area - allowing owners to see what problems are being reported across the country. The service department of a dealer can probably access infomation like that. Obvioulsy, that could really hurt sales if there were a lot of major issues and why car makers will not do that.

carguy62

Thanks for the sales figures. One of those 11,608 in February was mine.

Someone posted that they were told it is a bad Oxygen Sensor with no fix until May. So depending on where you've taken it to:

1. They replaced an O2 sensor that may or may not have needed replacing.

2. They tell you it is a bad O2 sensor with no fix until May (I suppose this can be interpreted as the same as the computer problem but that is stretching it).

3. They tell you it is a software problem with a fix due in May.

4. A fix is already available.

Choose the option that best applies to your situation. Or hopefully it doesn't apply.

ckirk4

Has anyone heard of any minor refinements that Honda is contemplating for 2003 CR-V?

muckyduck

While these message boards do not represent the majority of owners, they can be very useful. I just saw on the www.suv.com board a post about the rocking seat problem. Replacing the bushings does not solve the problem. Have to replace the entire seat rack that holds the seat to the floor.
The poster said Honda has now done this on cars they are making - that would be great if this problem is resolved. I haven't noticed it on mine yet.

rci

The CR-V specs from the hondacars.com website states that the EX comes with 6-disc in-dash CD changer and "6" speakers. That's 2 front +2 rear. Are the 2 tweeters in the dash standard?
I just got my '02 CRV-EX last week (had to wait 7wks & 4days) and paid $450 extra for the tweeters/subwoofer combo. Was I ripped-off? Please advise. Thanks.

artdecho

I've also seen the CEL problem on other boards, most notably the Forester board.....seems like the fix was to tighten the gas cap a couple of notches......don't know if this would work for the CR-V too.

jfigueroa1

Hello From Sunny Miami
I see all of you talking about the CEL
What is the cel oem stand for?
and for the guy with the bad molding if you got the dealer to install that they should be able to repair the problem.

varmint

CEL = Check Engine Light

OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer

Rci - Depends. If the sound is $450 better, then no, you didn't get ripped off.

Yes, the 2 dash mounted tweeters are standard equipment on the EX models. They are not part of the LX package. They are mounted in the top of the dash near the corners of the windshield. I expect that there are other upgrades available, which may include yet another set of tweeters.

varmint

This information comes from the fella who designs fixes for the CR-V. I thought his explanation about why we are seeing so many variations was kind of amusing. Mucky and a few others have already seen it, but I thought it should be cross-posted for anyone lurking here.

"It's the software...and the revised software will be available at dealers in May. The conflicting info comes from many people interpreting the basic information, and then passing it along with their interpretation added. Kind of like the old party trick of passing a simple phrase around the room and seeing how much it changes. I won't go into technical details here for that same reason."

When asked, "Why the wait until May?", he responded saying that the government has to approve the code changes and, of course, it has to be retested.

There you go.

muckyduck

Who is this? Does he work for Honda? Does Honda know he does this?

varmint

Yes, the guy who posts as CR-V Engineer is, in fact, an Engineer for Honda. He is the person who gave Bing the chance to review an '02 model before they were available at the dealerships. He drove an MDX to one of the SoCal meets. When he has time, he gives expert advice on things related to CR-Vs. He lurks here, but does not post. I can't pick him out anymore, but he's somewhere in this crowd.

mpgman

Thanks. I concur. 2 little things that annoyed me about the ZTW were no left foot rest and no folding outside mirrors.

sfbayarea

Thanks for the tips!

seguy

Got it installed at Classic Soft Trim ($1415 for 2-tone and heated seat) Fairly satisfied except I had a hard time cleaning some residue on the door panels, finally got it off with some shoe leather cleaner. Black/gray combination. The gray leather is very close to the gray plastic/lining of the cr-v, almost hard to tell, especially since they're not right next to each other. Gives the cr-v more of an upscale feel. We like it, mostly because it's easier to keep clean.

canadiancl

After months of research and too many hours on Edmunds, we traded in the wife's '97 CR-V for an '02 Accord SE-V6. Hope we don't come to regret losing the V as it has been a faithful and reliable (if somewhat plodding) commuter for 5+ years. We really wanted to like the '02 CR-V, but felt it lacks "something". Me thinks it needs another 25 HP, an interior makeover, and at least 16", possibly 17" wheels with 225 tire width. Maybe an SE model in a couple of years?! In the end, we couldn't pass up on the value offered by the Accord, especially the SE model. Unless you go domestic, or Korean, I don't think you can get a V6 sedan with this level of equipment at the Accord's prices. I know the '03 Accords are just around the corner, but that is still an unknown quantity at this point. And I figure if the '03 turns out to be a showstopper, I could always trade up in a couple or three years' time. Anyway, the deed is done, for better or for worse.

richk4

Muckyduck, I had the body cladding installed on my EX also. Beside the adhesive backing there are seven clips on the door piece that should hold the cladding in place, they fit in the seven pre-existing holes in the door that held the original trim piece in place. I wonder if your dealer did not use the clips. They would prevent the piece from shifting.

muckyduck

I thought that too about the cladding - how could it slip with those clips? Wonder if some broke when removing the old strip and they didn't replace them. Taking it back in the morning.
Question - I only have about 700 miles on the EX so it may be too soon. But, most of the time I start the engine it is very quiet - would think it is not even running it is so quiet. But a few times it will start up and idle quite fast. Seems to be a random thing. And it will not cut back by itself. I've also noticed that going from 2nd to 3rd (automatic) that sometimes the engine wants to struggle getting there, with the rpm increasing quite a bit before it gets into 3rd. Or another way of saying - it seems like it wants to hesitate going to 3rd. Not sure exactly how to descibe it. Anyone else had that?

varmint

Fast idle - Try tapping the gas pedal once. It should rev up a bit, then settle back to it's normal idle.

muckyduck

thanks - I did try that. Didn't work. But I will keep trying to see what I can do.
I took my cr-v to the dealer this morning about the cladding on the driver's door. The service guy just called and said they were replacing the cladding on the entire car. He said it was a kit and they had to do it all. It will interesting to see how well this cladding holds up over time - I would have to think that Honda did not subject this to extreme temperatures like we have in Houston. I say that because the car was sitting in the sun yesterday and this is when the one piece started shifting and it was only about 70. When it gets to 100?????

muckyduck

Well, I picked up my car after the dealer replaced the cladding - ONLY on the driver's door even though the service guy said it was the entire car. They didn't even try to clean it up - lot of dust but so far it seems to be a better fit.
Happened to see my salesman as I was waiting for the car to be brought up - suprised to see me. I told him and all he said was 'these things happen" then said he had someone waiting.
But they worked on it fast and hopefully will not be a problem again. Both my salesman after the papers were signed and this service guy asked me to give them high marks on customer survey from Honda. Salesman did not have any time for me now and service guy did not even come over when car was brought up to make sure I was satisfied. Oh well, Honda service not any different from any other car company, I guess.

varmint

Good. If it did return to the normal idle speed, I'd say no biggie. But since it did not, I'd ask your service guts to take a look at it. Chances are, they won't be able to reproduce it on demand, but it's worth having them check it out.

Actually, some of the spy pics we saw for the '02 modle were taken in Arizona. So the vehicle was tested in extreme heat. Don't think it had the cladding on it, though. We'll have to wait and see if anyone else reports a similar problem with heat. Otherwise, I'd have to guess that the dealer simply didn't install it correctly.

muckyduck

In the month I was waiting for mine to arrive I saw at most 3 new cr-v's. Since I took delivery, I see them all the time, espically the Mojave Mist color. I guess production has picked up.There were at least 6 (all colors) on the lot when I picked mine up, but only one was an EX.
Will wait on the idle speed for a while - get some more miles before I ask them to look at it.
As for the heat - that was just a guess. Not doubting that the car was tested in different enviornments, but there are not too many places that have the extreme heat and humidity that is along the Gulf Coast.

muckyduck

I'll let others post for a while after I ask this (he he) - I have some time before I have to decide but ...
While at the dealer this morning, I looked at their charges for regular service. Every other 3750 mile service is $27.95 (basically just an oil/filter change and check fluids). While the 7500 mile and mulitples thereof range in price from $155 to over $300. From previous experiences with the 97-01 cr-v, is it best to have a Honda service department do this work. I've always felt dealers charge more than an independent service place and include things that are not really necessary to up the price. But with the reputation of Honda cars lasting 100,000 miles or longer, I'm wondering if it is best to pay the extra.
Any opinions??

lfike

Just a reminder...ANYTIME...you have worked performed on your Honda make certain you have a receipt showing your complaint and what the dealer found in writing "everytime"! Down the road you'll have everything you need should you have the same problem.....Honda is very good concerning warranty
even after the 3yr 36,000 (it's called a courtesy warranty).....sometimes they pay for everything and other times they pay for parts and you pay labor...depends on your/their attitude.
As far as the salesperson that didn't have time for you or the Service manager.....remember that the next time you purchase a vehicle.....until then....go to the General Manager and express your opinion with him ...of course always treat him the way you want to be treated.....I'll bet the next time you come in for service you'll see a change in attitudes.
I sold Hondas for 7 years in Western PA...many times I would get involved with the customer after the sale..washed their cars etc...service doesn't really want sales involved with that end of the business...but hey' I always felt that my customers were the same as good friends! The dealer needs to have the attitude "Whatever it takes" to make the customer happy (within reason of course)....also....don't put off repairs till later...what you think is minor may end up being major!............just my 2cents...later

ateixeira

I had a fast idle on my Miata, but it was my fault - I had tightened the slack on my throttle cable a bit too much. You need some slack. Or is the new CR-V throttle-by-wire?

CELs are no big deal. If you are buying a new car, just tell yourself you will see 1-2 CELs, and get over it now. A blinking CEL is a serious problem, a solid one usually isn't.

A note about TSBs, these aren't always about a problem per se. They are used to send instructions for dealers to install accessories, for example, or specific torque specifications. It can be a mere clarification.

-juice

carguy62

CELs caused by improperly clicked gas caps can be expected. But to expect them from a computer glitch?

So someone tell me why if this is just a software issue and there is nothing wrong with the vehicle how come I knew when my CEL came on? The car started running rough and I knew something was wrong and I looked and there was the CEL. So if this isn't a "real" problem why did I experience that? And why is the car running better now once the CEL was cleared? I don't think I am imagining it. Or does this support my theory that now they have another reason to say nothing is wrong with your vehicle.

Nobody has the answer because they don't know.