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Toyota 4Runner



  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    I haven't seen it yet. Give it a few days and it will be everywhere. I still don't even have residual values for leasing. Toyota released the vehicle but still no residuals.
  • kjack100kjack100 Posts: 133
    Answering my own question here. In case you were wondering how a 4Runner got over $45,000. Yeouch.

  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    go to and "build your own" I don't see how a LTD 4WD IS 45K! I agree wholeheartedly with Cliffy. I was also underwhelmed with the appearance of the new runner until I drove it. I'm in love. This will be my first new vehicle in 12 years!
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    << Its like driving Camrys and Solaras all your life and then getting into a BMW M3. No, I'm not saying that it drives like and M3 (although in some respects it does) but that is the kind of difference you will experience. >>

    I wonder what Cliffy's been smoking? ;)

    As to looks, like it or not, people make purchasing decisions on this factor alone. If they don't like the looks, they may never open the driver's door...

    BTW, I think the looks are okay (not great, but just okay), and I did drive it. Cliffy's right. It's a very nice SUV to drive. Still wish it had IRS though...

  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    It's the weekend - Cliffy's smoking fish....

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  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    Finally a time that I can talk about fishing and be on topic.

    I own a Tundra. Well, OK, I lease a Tundra. I had been planning on leasing another one in December. Now, I'm not so sure. The rods (usually 6 to 10 of them) will fit because when you fold the seat down, there is a cut out between the front drivers and passenger seat. That leaves plenty of room for tackle and batteries.

    Deer is a problem. Even with a tarp in the back, it would be a tight squeeze for one big buck plus all my hunting gear and one buddy. That may be a deal killer.

    Towing would be fine, although my boat weighs 4200 pounds which is closer than I would like to the towing capacity. I am convinced that Toyota is being too conservative here but it would mean that I couldn't upgrade the boat any time soon (well until the lease ran out on the Runner).

    I might just do it. Lease payments on this will be about the same as a Tundra SR5 which is $5000 less on the sticker.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    Unless, you need 3rd-row seating, or extra towing power, I see no reason whatsoever for buying either a Land Cruiser or Sequoia over the new V8 4Runner.

    In addition, the new V8 4Runner has the superior Land Cruiser permenent 4WD, and 5-speed auto, that's lacking in the Sequoia.

  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    It weighs 1000 pounds less than the Sequoia with the same engine.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    Even though these vehicles are very similar, there are some significant deferences:

    &#149; Clearly different styling, both inside and outside.

    &#149; GX 470 is contented more like a fully loaded 4Runner.

    &#149; The GX 470 has a console mounted transfer case lever, which includes a "Neutral" position, which is lacking on the dash-mounted 4Runner transfer case switch.

    &#149; GX 470 offers 3-row seating.

    &#149; GX 470 will probably(?) be priced close to a Sequoia Limited.

    What I find most interesting about the GX 470, is that it is quite a bit more different, than are the LX 470 and the Land Cruiser; which leads me to wonder... Will the next-generation LX ?* and Land Cruiser also break away from one another, more so than they are now?

    * = I'm assuming the next LX will have the long-rumored larger 5.?L engine, thus will have a different name.

  • olizerolizer Posts: 38
    Get a cargo carrier that hooks into a 2" trailer hitch receiver and folds up.
  • kavinkkavink Posts: 6
    I finally saw the new 4Runner on a dealer's lot. Quite a bit of hype for this vehicle. I for one vote against the bland exterior styling. The V8 is great but it comes at a fairly stiff price. I currently drive a dog of an engine 2001 Montero; however, I live in a town where the speed limit is 25 and sometimes traffic flows upwards of 35 MPH. The doggy engine in the Monty does fine in this environment and my guess is it would easily outperform the new 4Runner in an off-road environment.

    The JBL radio upgrade is quite pricey and does not even provide for satellite broadcasts. It looks too much like a Trailblazer, Envoy or Bravada. I think I would opt for a used Landcruiser b4 shelling out big bucks on such a dull looking vehicle. It really lacks a presence - the 2wd must really be ugly since it is lower to the ground. I would like to supercharge my Monty - any ideas?
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    I thought about that. I may have to consider that option. There are two down sides to that. The first is that it offends a lot of people to see a dead deer. While I am an avid hunter and proud of it, I don't want to offend those who don't hunt. If I did that, I would cover it with a tarp as best I could.

    The second problem is that I am pretty lazy. I put the ball mount into my Tundra three years ago and never removed it. Since I do a fair amount of salt water fishing, it became rusted into position two years ago. I tried removing it last year and couldn't budge it with a sledgehammer.

    I'm not saying I couldn't or wouldn't do this, but it does present some issues.
  • zaadzaad Posts: 9
    I have seen the 4Runner in person but GX470 only in pic's and like the GX better.

    The 03 4Runner IMHO is not a true replacement for the 02, it is just a new SUV (New4Runner) because it has lost the bold stance we have come to know the 4Runner for, & I would classify the 02 as the (Classic4Runner), Toyota has succeeded in making an SUV that looks just like the rest of so called SUV's.
    The GX470 however has more truck like bold looks & it qualifies better to be the modified 4Runner but it has couple of drawbacks even though I can afford the price.
    First is that stupid liftgate opening which I don't understand why couldn't it also open in split fashion up/down or even if it's window goes down (04 Envoy XUV opens both ways).
    2nd is the L name which I do not want to be associated with or with L owners mentality.
    I do have a solution for the 2nd problem if anyone can come up with a solution for the liftgate problem, I am seriously considering getting the GX470 but replace the L name with something like (MODIFIED) or (TRUE) and replace GX470 with 4RUNNER !!
    The rear gate will be more dificult however but not impossible to get some hardware from Toyota as if the gate was damaged & modifie the hinge etc...or just replace the whole thing.

    BTW, had a chance to look at H2 parked on grass in a dealers event by GM plant, I was carious about the ground clearance, this thing is using a GM truck chassis.
    I didn't think measuring it parked on grass was fare but then I realized it was perfect, SUV's do get on soft surfaces in off road situations and it is perfect, the pumpkin ?(rear dif.) was just 8 inches from the grass, of course the wheels must have been couple inshes lower due to soft surface.
    I then measured an Envoy, I did not need to, a bar which was lower than the pumpkin was almost touching the grass !!, if grass was any taller (just cut), it would have touched it.
    I understand why they call these things SUV's when ground clearance is the same as cars, I always see that on road & compare them to a car right next to them.

    oops, I went over 2 cents !!

    Zaad :)
  • Just ordered a V8 Limited 4WD with the moonroof, side air bags, spoiler, JBL with CD changer - MSRP was 39,539 got it for 37,513. Our local dealer has standard "no-haggle" pricing - like Saturn.
  • intmed99intmed99 Posts: 485
    IRS?! That's ok...this is an off-roader, right? IRS does NOT belong on an SUV, especially the rear axle. There is no way that it will match the wheel articulation of a solid axle. Like i said before, the wheel articulation of the new RANGE ROVER is still less than a good solid axle (aka Discovery, 4Runner 3rd gen, etc.). Ground clearance is not static with independent suspension. In addition, electronic crap will fail at the worst time! Not as reliable as a good solid axle design.

    Land Cruiser is still king in Toyota domain. TLC has better ANGLES (approach/departure/breakover) and ground clearance. In addition, according to Toyota literature in other countries, the TLC is MORE capable than Prado:

    TLC can go up an incline of 45 degrees and tilt to 45 degrees.

    Prado can only go up incline of 32 degrees.

    Yes, 4Runner and TLC may have the same powertrain, but TLC is still king.

    Here is a question: why does the GX470 and TLC cost the same??? GX is only a tad smaller, yet has TONS more features and customer service.
  • I tried out the new 4Runner 4WD and the drive terrain (with the V8) is awesome! That and the Toyota quality are the only reasons to buy this vehicle!

    Interior is much improved but the space is only ok; it will not be for taller folks: the front window is still small and the rear seats are better than in the prior versions but the leg room is still tight. No 3rd row is a marketing blunder!

    The plastic on the SR5 and Sport are pretty pathetic but the look is ok in certain colour combos. I have also driven the Sequoia, Pilot, MDX and Pathfinder. Every single one of these lacks something. All lack the clearance and the off-road characteristics of my current '91 4Runner that I bought 11 years ago. Given the interior space/seating, the 4Runner has the most ridiculous pricing. I am particularly disappointed at the fact that Toyota is still gauging the consumers by charging ridiculous amounts for many options (that really should be standard, like floor mats or air bags) and bundling useless crap (like the stereo upgrade) with desirable models. I would like the Sport with bags and Leather but I doubt I will be able to find one in the CAT region, without the 3-6 month wait. If I was set on these options I would have to spend closer to 40k (MSRP) by buying a Limited or get a Pilot that will run closer to $30k. At MSRP, this vehicle is already overpriced!

    One last thought: The dealership experience was as bad as it has always been. Every single one of them lies and wastes consumer time! This salesperson was full of…it and insulted my current set of wheels by calling it ancient and questioned my ability to pay for such a vehicle, all in the first minute. Way to go, Toyota!
  • I also live up north, what dealer did you order from? That sounds like a great price this early in the introduction and delivery period.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    << IRS does NOT belong on an SUV, especially the rear axle. There is no way that it will match the wheel articulation of a solid axle. Like i said before, the wheel articulation of the new RANGE ROVER is still less than a good solid axle (aka Discovery, 4Runner 3rd gen, etc.). Ground clearance is not static with independent suspension >>

    If you don't like the Range Rover, try a new IRS-equipped Montero&#151;which has gotten rave reviews for its off-road prowess, or the new full-size Expedition. IRS *CAN* work off road, and especially in the role that the 4Runner is slotted for.

    Are you suggesting that Toyota should revert back to a solid front axle, by any chance?

  • Check with the dealer in Eau Claire, WI
  • intmed99intmed99 Posts: 485
    Expedition?! When is the Expedition EVER good at off-roading!!! I've looked very closely at the Expedition/Navigator (2003) is a joke! Low to the ground...only the very center has decent height. Hey, so, are you saying the Explorer is good at off-roading?? Oh wait, doesn't those two have AXLE THROUGH FRAME crap?? Oh yeah, that is really good for articulation! Geez!

    As for the new Montero, FourWheeler and Petersen's BOTH said the Montero had very limited wheel's Limited-slip diff was good though, according to reviews.

    Ok, Montero can do DECENT in off-roading...but it will never be as good as the 4Runner (3rd gen) nor the Discovery, and, especially NOT as good as the Land Cruiser.

    Solid FRONT axle is great! However, i must admit that there are on-road handling trade-off with it. Thus, the best combo in my opinion is still IFS and solid rear axle.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    We'll just have to agree to disagree...

    I'll also mention the new VW Touareg, but it hasn't been tested yet, Stateside. All early indications are that it too will be a very good off-roader&#151;with IFS/IRS.

  • intmed99intmed99 Posts: 485
    Sorry if i come across agressive. However, with these new IFS/IRS vehicles with electronic gizmos to raise it and lower it, i just wonder how fragile these things are in off-roading. For example, going through mud or rocky terrain. will fail sooner or later in this terrain.

    My brother's LX470's electronic gas shocks occasionally will raise or lower the SUV on IT'S OWN! However, unlike RANGE ROVER and TOUAREG, if it does fail, the LX470 has a strong basic foundation...ground clearance will always be 9.8" in Land Cruiser. In the Range Rover or Touareg, you're screwed!

    I bet you the Touareg and Range Rover will do very well in a road test. However, if you were to use it over a longer period of time (and especially off-roading), you will get a different picture.
  • aufan1aufan1 Posts: 21
    Does anyone have a figure on what the V6 SR5 and Limited prices will be? Toyota website does not list them, but does say it will be available Nov 2002. Thanks,
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    << I bet you the Touareg and Range Rover will do very well in a road test. However, if you were to use it over a longer period of time (and especially off-roading), you will get a different picture. >>

    Maybe, maybe not. The same has been said of virtually all new technology. There are always skeptics who will say this new will eventually fail. If that were true, we'd all still be driving Studebaker Conestoga Wagons.

    I don't think it's all doom and gloom. I do think IRS can work off road. I know I'm in a minority here, but I really believe it's true. It's really a matter of coming up with the right system, and if anybody can do it&#151;it's Toyota.

  • Are you guys sure the 4runner has the same 4wd configuration as the landcruiser. V8 and 5spd auto full time 4wd? That is the only reason I ever liked LC...that and its tailgaite. I wish 4runner brought that flip down tailgaiteas well
  • mrwhipplemrwhipple Posts: 378
    Cliffy is right. It is more than worth a test drive. The 4Runner drives beautifully.
  • intmed99intmed99 Posts: 485
    The Range Rover technologies were never very reliable (even when under BMW control). It's electronic suspension was a common problem with Range Rovers.

    VW is also not known to make very reliable cars. The ONLY one that is decent (in terms of quality) is the Passat. All others have below average reliability. Now, they are venturing into a completely new territory with new technologies. At least Land Rover had the electronic suspension on the previous Rovers.
  • I also got a chance to sit in a Limited 4x4 today. Couldn't drive it because it was in the shop to fix the new JPL radio which was malfunctioning. It happens that I am on a business trip, so I had to go see it in Bethesda, rather than at home in San Francisco. Here's another opinion:

    Looks really good in person from the front end and three quarter views. The C-pillar and the wheel wells are really troublesome. This car will be bought for its many merits, and it looks handsome enough, but won't win any design awards. The interior is a huge improvement in every respect, IMO. Spacious, solid, high-tech. The beltline is a little high, and the pillars are wide, so the view out from the cabin is hindered.

    I still have to drive it. As Cliffy mentioned, that seems to be the main selling point. There was nothing in the looks or the setup that would prevent me from buying if it drives like everybody says.

    The Europeans get another flavor of the Runner/GX470. There it is called the Land Cruiser. Take a look:

    I think it looks pretty cool. Mostly I wonder why the American market won't support a 3-door SUV like the one shown in the pictures. I for one would like a shorter wheelbase, two-doors, and the more sporty look. Given the whole debate about third row seats, I guess I shouldn't even ask.

  • hengheng Posts: 411
    I seeing complaints (in other sources) about the Toyota's electronic gadgets making driving of their SUVs dangerous or at least unworthy. So I am curious about real seat experience in the new 4runner.

    Seems the Toyota safety gadgets are interfering with vehicle operation to the point of making it suicidal to drive the vehicle (in this one persons experience). A summary of the most serious one (Sequoia) I read is: with every imperfection in the road, the traction control or VSC would cut engine power and leave you in the path of getting clobbered by another vehicle. This happens going over train tracks, changing lanes, pulling into traffic at intersections or from driveways, etc.

    So I hope this has been rectified on the 4runner or else it is going to be a no-runner for me (especially since I would need to take mine off road). Guess I will wait until the 03's get some miles on them before deciding.

    BTW, a MDX owner gave a similar account of safety electronics resulting in no forward motion while trying to get up a gravel road.
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