Jeep Wrangler

div2

I have driven/owned 4X$s for thirty years, and I've always been more than willing to help extract cars from ditches, etc., in icy weather. This year however, I am refusing to assist any moron who drives an SUV fitted with 20"+ chrome wheels. Anyone who is stupid enough to drive one in winter weather needs to remain in the ditch so that they will no longer endanger the rest of the driving public.

embeeduece

My AAA insurance inspector had to reschedule for tomorrow. As I figure it, they have no choice but to cover the tires. But, I'm worried they'll put up a giht over the soft top. Jeep dealer says the back window can be replaced, but not the side window. I suppose there are places that can "repair" the kinfie cuts in the side, but I want my Jeep to be put back to original specs, i.e. a new top. In my mind, this is what I'm paying for in my premiums, which are higher for convertibles.

Does anyone have any experience with this who can give me a heads up on what to expect?

BTW, in the meantime, I'm driving around in a 1985 Prelude. Could there be a more different driving sensation?!

Thanks,
Mike

mtngal

I know what you mean about different driving experiences! We were in an accident on I-405 (other guy's fault) when the Noble Black Steed was about 6 months old. Our first rental was a Cavalier and it was awful. I was very nervious because of the circumstances of the accident and then having to ride in a car where I could barely see over the dash drove me nuts. After one day we changed and got a Cherokee (like vehicle). Otherwise I don't think I could have made it to work for a few weeks.

barresa62

I went out to lunch today and noticed that the lense on my right foglight is shattered just about in half. It must have happened during the commute this AM. Anyone look at the cost of OE replacement? Would I be better off to just replace the OE pair w/aftermarket ones?

Clueless in Seattle,
Stephen

drosketer

Does anyone know whether the limited-slip on the Rubicon is really a gear (as opposed to a clutch) based unit? I know that they advertise it as a "helical-gear"... which would appear to indicate the former, but I'd hate to find out it's a naming gimmick or something along those lines. Mac? Twylie?

Also, if I am not mistaken, the gear type units tend not to wear out, unlike the clutch types which eventually require new plates. Is this correct?

Heh, I think I've been reading too many wheelin' books and can no longer keep everything straight... Can't wait to stop reading and start doing!

Andrew

mac24

Yes, when not locked the rear Rubicon diff acts as helically geared limited slip (like a Tru-Trac). However, the front is either locked or open.

Yes to your second question as well. Geared LSDs wear much more slowly than those that are clutched. Expect it to last as long as a standard open diff.......... probably, maybe, perhaps......... well, you get the idea, a lot longer than the clutched type anyway!

texasjeep

Stephen
My foglight lense has a bad crack for a year or two now. It still works so I haven't bothered doing anything with it.
I would go aftermarket if you replace it.
Here is a link to Twylie's upgrade.
http://www.ewylie.com/jeep/electrical.htm#IPFH4

Anybody know anything about the Detroit Electrac?

barresa62

Thanks for the link. Yeah, I looked at my Jeep last night after leaving work and the right foglight is still working. I probably won't do anything to replace it until it quits working.

Stephen

drosketer

Thanks. Yeah, I know what you mean. I thought that was the case, just wanted to make sure I wasn't thinking about something else entirely...

Andrew

mikejpaz

I have an '03 Jeep with automatic transmission and 6,000 miles on the odometer. If I drive on the city streets and slowly "creep" up to 50mph, a slight engine noise/knock can be heard once the transmission shifts into fourth gear. Note: With the over-drive off, the noise does not occur. Two separate dealers have tried to diagnose the problem, but nothing has been found. Have any of you experience similar engine noise?

tsjay

Sounds like spark knock, and that could be due to the engine lugging down because of shifting at too low RPM into OD.

Could be gas. Are you getting 87 octance gas?

Hope ya get it figured out.

Welcome to the group!

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mullins87

The first thing I would do is to put a tank of mid-grade or premium gas in it. If the knock stops, then fine. Well, you might have a couple of minor issues that may or may not be worth pursuing. If it still knocks, then put the cheapest gas in it you can find and take it to the dealer. The cheaper gas hopefully will make it knock, really I should say "ping", louder so the dealer will notice it. And, it could be that the sensor that is supposed to detect just this occurance has gone bad.

The situation that you describe is called "spark knock" I believe. It's typically caused by higher compression ratios, which you don't have, or a cheaper grade of gasoline self-igniting nano-seconds before the spark plug ignites. This self-ignition sends out a shock wave that makes the pinging noise when it strikes the cylinder walls. This typically doesn't cause any real damage unless it's allowed to go unchecked.

mullins87

You beat me to it!!!

tsjay

Jump in here, Brother! You da man on mechanical stuff.

Are Jim and I on the right track?

If the tranny is shifting at the right RPM, then it's either the engine timing or the gas quality, right? The timing being right depends on, among other things, a good reading from the CPS, correct? Could it be a CPS problem?

Mike's username indicates possibly that he lives in Arizona. If that's true, then don't they have 85 octane gas out west as their "regular," and couldn't that be the problem?

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mtngal

Just gotta say hi! to everyone - I don't know if I'll have much time tomorrow to be reading Edmunds. I'll be packing for our trip to St. George, Utah and Las Vegas for a week. Since I have a very local ISP (none of the national companies have a local phone number here, and my ISP is excellent so I don't normally miss the big guys) I'll probably be out of the loop for over a week. I'm counting on all of you posting lots of messages so I can have fun catching up.

We are taking my Noble Black Steed, and I hope the weather will cooperate - I would hate to bring it back clean!

Have a great time everyone!

mikejpaz

Thanks for all the feedback - it gives me something to work with. Just to let you know I have tried several tanks of all gasoline. I do live in Arizona and I have been told certain additives are added to the AZ blend to assist with smog reduction. I do love going off-road and its nice to have some reassurance (break-downs are not fun). Thanks!!

mac24

Seems there a lot of complaints about this coming from '03 owners. It's likely to be a software/timing issue, probably tied to meeting emission specs. Incidentally, the 4.0 doesn't have a knock sensor.

Increasing the octane rating of the fuel used is the easy way to analyze the problem. However, to be true to it's image, a Wrangler ought to run fine on Mexican gas pumped from a drum that's been standing in the desert sun for five years! (Of course, that's just my opinion.)

;--)

01r1

Out here in the wild west, we mostly have 87 octane as our regular. In high altitude communities, where higher octane is not needed, you can find 85 octane as regular. But this is the exception, not the norm.

I have to used mid-grade 89 octane on my Jeep because the knock was so bad with 87 octane. The dealer wouldn't investigate because I have 33" tires and effectively too tall of gearing. Oh well, guess that's just another trade off for having big tires.

-Pete

erickpl

Well, four days later and no more dripping. Guess the loose nut operating the ratchet screwed up (me). The lower hose was not tightened as much as I originally thought. The lower hose attachment to the radiator itself had the clamp a bit far out from the radiator and positioned on the lip that the clamp should be positioned inside of. I adjusted that too and no more problems.

Now I need a new oil filler cap and the hose that comes out of the valve cover - slight leak from those and this thing should be nice and tight again.

-Paul

barresa62

I was using the 87 octane gas in Washington State since I bought the Wrangler. I noticed quite a bit of pinging a couple of months ago and switched to 89 octane. The pinging has basically disappeared with the higher octane. I only pay about 5 cents more a gallon.

Pingless in Seattle,
Stephen

mullins87

I didn't know if these engines still used the knock sensor. The Ford Windstar had a BIG knocking issue with the '00 model year, it may have occurred with other years also. The fix was a reflash of the computer programming. It's entirely possible that's mike's problem. I have to admit since OBD-II systems came out, I haven't had that much experience with pinging.

tsjay

Hey, Gang, I have added some more stuff to my new Turkey Bay website. Check it out. Will still be adding more, but there's a lot more there already since I first told you guys about it.

http://home.earthlink.net/~tsjay49/

Getting ready to head for Turkey Bay pretty soon. I will be meeting Jim (mullins87) down there, and he will have his brother in law and his boys with him. He tells me that his brother in law is beginning to get Wrangler Fever.

I think after today that brother in law will be beyond help... he will have a full blown case of Wrangler Fever.

See you guys later. Check out that website.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

cwdobber

I was talking with a dealer yesterday, and they mentioned a Wrangler Unlimited. Stated it would be priced between a Sport and Sahara, and it would be 15" longer (2" longer between the front and back seat and 13" longer from the back seat to the rear of the vehicle), due out in early March. Has anyone heard anything?

I've got the itch...hoping to get it scratched this coming spring. Thanks

mac24

Supposed to be an '05 model to be released fall '04.

bamatazz

Helloo JEEPERS..
BAMA is still around..
I was jeepless for a few days.
I had the engine light on took it too the dealership had it fixed plus a winshield leak & some paint chipping off under the passenger door.

 Tazz is ALL GOOD now, All clean & shiney.
thought I would catch everyone up to date.

KEEP JEEPIN
NOW TIME FOR THE IRON BOWL BAMA vs AWBARN!!

ROLL TIDE!
BAMATAZZ

mac24

This should give an idea of what to expect.





Same Jeep, different sources.

thebigkahuna

Wrangler Unlimited... What would be the advantage to that? Enlighten me please

tsjay

Well, Jeep Buds, I tried Buttpucker Gulch again today, and the results were the same. Had to use the winch to get through. Heck, it was harder today to just get to the point where I usually get stopped: the lower end has gotten a lot worse.

Scratched up a rear fender flare pretty bad today, and the old license plate holder got crunched some more.

Had a super day, though! There were two YJs (one was Jim's... mullins87) and two XJs besides Thelma Jane. Weather was great, with temps in the low 70s.

Check out the pics in Gill's gallery. I'm still uploading some, so check em out again later.

http://www.itsajeep.org/PhotoPost/showgallery.php?cat=15034&p- puser=4

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay

Glad to see a post by the Old Kahuna again! Welcome back, dude!

The advantage would just be the extra cargo room, I guess, Sonny. It would be nice to be able to carry a little bit more stuff in the back.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mullins87

that little extra room may come at a price. For one, it's a little longer in the wheelbase and second, the rear departure angle is terrible for a TJ. It will most likely still be a decent off-roader. But, I think it will handle more like a GC, not like a Wrangler.

hype

With respect to mileage/time between oil changes, if it takes me more than 6 months to drive 3K miles, is that too long to go between oil changes? Should I have oil changed every 3-6 months, regardless of whether I have driven 3K miles in that time period? I guess my question is, if it takes me a year to put 3K miles on my Jeep, is that too long to go between oil changes? Mileage seems to be used as the gauge for oil changes-but does time have anything to do with it as well? Thanks.

tsjay

Yes, time is a factor too. Moisture will accumulate in the crankcase over time, and this can lead to sludge.

It depends on the temperatures and humidity, but I think six months under most conditions would be my limit. I wouldn't even go that long if the Jeep had only been used for very short trips and hardly ever gets driven long enough to get the oil warm enough for a long enough time to evaporate the moisture. Just because your coolant temperature reaches normal, doesn't mean that your engine has run long enough to get rid of the moisture in the crankcase.

We are sorta getting into the realm of "opinions" here, and I am always interested in getting Mac's opinions, because he obviously knows his stuff about vehicle maintenance. So, Mac, give us some input on this, please.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

bored

The Wrangler Unlimited is supposed to be at dealers in April, so says DC, during a recent private release of future products. They say that it can offroad better than a Wrangler too.

Some advantages are more cargo space, and more rear seat room. It's still a 4 seater. The pictures show the Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon prototype. Trim levels will be X, Sport, and Rubicon. The Sahara will not exist after model year '04.

Hug your Jeeps for me!

Marlon

mac24

Yes, what Tom said............. plus the small amount of fuel that gets past the rings along with a small amount of exhaust gases, together with the aforementioned moisture, all form some nasty acids whose main appetite seems to be the soft metal of the crankshaft bearings. Additionally, contaminated oil does a much poorer job of it's general lubrication duties than fresh oil does.

Three thousand miles or three months (which ever comes first), is a pretty good rule of thumb. However, should you only do a couple of miles to work each day never allowing the oil to get up to temp (which takes a lot longer than the coolant does), I think I'd drop it to a thousand miles or a month. Oil is so cheap compared to the cost of repairing the engine.

To be honest, I'd rather change the oil every month using the correct spec WalMart brand, than every five thousand miles using Mobil 1. Nothing wrong with Mobil, but the engine would never have more than one thousand miles worth of contaminants in it, and additive package in the oil would unlikely ever reach depletion.

Personally, I drive about twelve thousand miles a year and change my oil by mileage at three thousand miles.

mac24

I can't quote any figures, but from the pictures the positioning of the rear wheel in relation to the rear of the vehicle look to be virtually the same as on a standard TJ, therefore the departure angle will be the same. Same goes for the angle of approach.

However, as the wheelbase increases (assuming solid axles and the same tire diameter) the ramp breakover angle will decrease, which in the extreme will detract from it's off road ability in certain situations. However, ramp breakover height will obviously not be affected.

In real life it means that each version will be able to do some things better than the other. Neither will be worse overall off road, it will just depend on the type of terrain being tackled.

mavi027

Hey everyone!
I need advice on getting a Wrangler and I think y'all are the people to turn to. I just moved to Denver, have never lived in a snowy area, and learned that a 5-spd rwd compact car stinks! After looking about for cars, the Wrangler really caught my eye. I have about 10-13k to spend, and really want a 6 cyl. model. My main concern is: How do these cars hold up? If I get a Wrangler with 50k miles, will I be able to drive it for years? I have never owned a domestic car and am a little bit skeptical about overall quality. Also, if you do have to do maintenance, is it expensive? cheap? do it yourself? Those are just some of my questions . I would appreciate anything you guys and gals think is pertinent. Thanks in advance!

tsjay

You came to the right place to find out a lot about Wranglers. Welcome! Glad you found us.

The best thing you can do is read a LOT of the posts in here, and this should give you a good feel for what Wranglers are all about. You will certainly learn this... we LOVE our Jeeps!

I would highly recommend that you get the 4.0L inline six engine as opposed to the four banger. Out there in Denver, you are likely going to be doing some driving in the mountains, right? The six will get you up those mountains MUCH better than the four banger.

For your price range, I would think that you should be able to get yourself a 1997 to 2000 Sport or Sahara, either of which would have the six cylinder engine I just recommended.

You are certainly welcome to ask all the questions you want to, but reading as many of the posts in here as you can will give you info that you might not even think to ask about.

Stick with us, and good luck in your search. We'll help ya all we can.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

Oh, as far as reliability, the Wranglers are at least average, and I think ABOVE average, in reliability.

cwdobber

Thanks for the pictures and the info

tsjay

ARE NICE! I saw a new Sport down at Turkey Bay yesterday, and I think that's the first time I saw the Ravine wheels other than in a picture.

I think I like them every bit as well as I like the Canyons, and I like the Canyons A LOT.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mac24

"I have never owned a domestic car and am a little bit skeptical about overall quality."

It's not a truck, it's not an SUV, and it's definitely not a CAR!!!

It's a Jeep.........or more specifically a Wrangler........... or more specifically still a TJ!

;--)

Now, to your questions. If it's been properly maintained and hasn't been abused, you can expect at least another 100K from a 50K 4.0, and probably another 200K.

Build quality is reasonably good, but it doesn't compare to say, a Lexus. Understandably, model years '97 to '98 1/2 had the most problems.

Regular maintenance items are basic, easy and inexpensive. Certainly a DIY proposition if you have the inclination.

I suggest you settle down to an afternoon reading as many previous posts here as you can manage.

tsjay

I see that you had already made up your mind to get the six cylinder engine, so my advice was not necessary. You are doing the right thing by thinking "six" for the area where you will be living.

A big time word of caution: when you are thinking "going well in snow," yes a Wrangler is a very capable vehicle, if you are talking about plodding along in deep snow at five or ten miles per hour. If you are thinking about how a Wrangler would do out on the highway under slick conditions, be warned that they have a combination of things that make them pretty quirky, and these are the same things that make them good off road vehicles. They have a high center of gravity, a short wheel base, and a narrow track. You have to SLOW DOWN, which would be smart no matter what vehicle you might be driving under slick conditions.

Also, Wranglers have part time four wheel drive systems, which are not supposed to be engaged on dry pavement. So, when you are constantly going from dry to snow covered pavement and back to dry, a vehicle with full time for wheel drive would actually be better.

Sure not trying to talk you out of a Wrangler, just want you to be sure you know what you are getting.

There is not a single vehicle that you could possibly buy at ANY price that would be more fun than a Wrangler!

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

ponm

As I have posted before I recently bought a 2003 Wrangler x with a five speed, and I also have put 31 inch tires and a 2" lift on my jeep. The down side is that my jeep came with the dreaded 307 rear end( I should have looked for a 3.73, but oh well). The acceleration around town is ok but the highway is just terrible. I am thinking about putting in 4.10 gears, or should I go with 3.73 or maybe 4.56s? I do not plan to go to a larger tire considering I do use this as my main vehicle and spend time on the highway. Any feed back would be appreciated.-scott

mac24

My advice, for what it's worth, would be to take a test drive in a five speed with 3.73s and 30" tires. The 1" difference in tire size won't matter much and you'll get a 'seat of the pants' feel for the difference in performance compared to yours.

Personally, I'd go for the 3.73s, but the 4.10s would be quite usable. They'd just have the engine rpm a little high when you're cruising at highway speeds, and you'd find yourself changing gear a lot more around town. Whatever you choose, don't forget to change the speedo gear to match!

tsjay

Hey, Scott, let me cast my vote for the 4.10 gearing. The Jeeps with the 30" tire package and five speed trannies come from the factory with the 3.73 gearing, or at least that's the way my Thelma Jane was set up.

I moved up to 31" tires and kept the 3.73 gearing. I noticed some loss in acceleration and in the ability to hold speed going up hills. No way it is bad enough that I would go to the expense of regearing from the current 3.73 to 4.10, as long as I stay with 31" tires. But, if you are going to regear anyway, then why not go with 4.10s? They would theoretically put you where you would have been with factory 30" tires and 3.73 gearing.

I don't think the 4.10s would be too much gear for 31" tires, since they would only put you to the equivalent RPM for a given speed and transmission gear that a person would have with the 30" tires with 3.73 factory gearing.

The 4.10s would be much better later on, in case you change your mind and go to tires larger than 31's.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mullins87

You're right about the approach angle. It doesn't appear that anything is changing up front. And, I am using my '95 as a reference point since I don't have a TJ. I went out and measured the distance from the vertical plane of the rear of the rear tire to the vertical plane of the furthest "hardpart", end of the frame. This distance was only 7.5" with the bumperette adding only 6". Unless the picture angle is what's throwing me off or DC has enclosed the "bumperette" to look like part of the frame, I'd say the distance is at least 3" to 4" longer.

Maybe I'm wrong. I hope so. This basic bodystyle has been around for more than 50 years and I'd hate to see it changed at the expense of its off-roading ability just because DC is chasing the more adventuresome soccer moms.

tsjay

Take it easy, Brother. This is going to be the modern version of the Scrambler, and it has been long awaited by many Jeepers. Believe, me, those puppies are going to be very trail-worthy. Also, they are not REPLACING the current Wrangler: they will just be an optional model.

There are Jeepers who are willing to give up just a little in order to gain some extra cargo room. I don't think they will have to give up much, though. The Scrambler could sure get around.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mac24

I don't see it as a 'mommy-mobile', more of different flavor, that's all. Land Rovers don't lose their character for having two versions of the Defender, the SWB 90 and the LWB 110.

Amongst other things, a longer wheelbase has advantages in terms of stability, load carrying (volume and weight), and of course towing capability and capacity.

tsjay

Hope I don't embarrass my new wheelin' bud, but I have to tell you guys how "Good Old Jim" has come along. He has taken to wheelin' like a duck takes to water. He is going just about anywhere you could expect a stock Jeep to go down there at Turkey Bay, and he loves this stuff!

Edmunds, thanks for bringing me and Jimbo together. (He saw me in Members Spotlight and contacted me: that's how we met. He didn't even have a Jeep then, but he got an idea about how much fun wheelin' and Jeepin' in general are, so he bought one.) He's makin' me a great wheelin' buddy.

Oh yeah, his brother in law didn't go with us Saturday, but his dad did. His dad wasn't real impressed with wheelin'... he says he will stick to golf.

Check out his pics as well as mine in the itsajeep photo gallery. It turns out that Jim is really good with a camera too.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

redkey1

What some of you fail to remember is that not all of us live in parts of the country where there is easy access to off-roading trails and rarely get to do so. Also, for many of us our Jeep is our only vehicle and angles are the last thing we worry about. The unlimited would make it just that much easier to live with an impractical (but 100% fun) vehicle like the jeep. The added cargo room would make it just that much better for those of us who are not hard-core off-roaders. I liken my jeep to a swiss army knife.....it has a drop top for fun in summer, hard top for winter and 4wd that is useful in both for driving on the beach, in the snow etc.

mac24

I suspect that you are probably the main target group for the new Unlimited. I've read that DC has determined they lose a lot of Wrangler sales due to the fact that limited interior capacity denies its purchase to people who require just one vehicle to fulfill all their needs.

The only thing I find a little difficult to understand is the Rubicon version of the Unlimited (or the Unlimited version of the Rubicon?), reported by Bored earlier. Seems a rather strange amalgamation of capabilities!