I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

uplanderguy

We were about 25-30 miles from Youngstown, OH (not proud of that, LOL), but other than that, relatively remote. 18 miles to the nearest interstate. We did have heavy industry for a town that was never even 10K population, which I think probably happened because the town was about midway between Chicago and New York on the Erie railroad. For instance, Chicago Bridge and Iron Company was located in Chicago, Birmingham, AL, Salt Lake City....and Greenville, PA. If that wasn't due to the railroad, I don't know why it would have been that way.

andre1969

The only car I've ever had without a/c is the DeSoto. It was something like a $500 option in 1957. So equipping it so would push a ~$3800 (as it's equipped) car up to around $4300.

Although, maybe that's not so lofty, after all. I remember reading somewhere, ages ago, that the average '58 Impala convertible with a V8 left the showroom floor with an MSRP of around $4,000. So for a car that started at $2841, they were pretty loaded up (but most likely no a/c).

I guess my '67 Catalina is a bit rare, being a convertible with air conditioning. Especially since it was a bit on the low end, as far as full-sized convertibles go. I can still remember as a kid, asking my Mom if her '66 had a/c, and she said no, why would it have air conditioning? It was a convertible!

Both my '68 Dart 270 and '69 Dart GT hardtops had a/c as well, which I think was still pretty rare at the Dart's price point. By '68 though, I think a/c was down to around $325-350. A/c was one of those options that actually got cheaper for awhile, as the years went by, until inflation started taking its toll in the 70's.

sda

@andre1969 said:
The only car I've ever had without a/c is the DeSoto. It was something like a $500 option in 1957. So equipping it so would push a ~$3800 (as it's equipped) car up to around $4300.

Although, maybe that's not so lofty, after all. I remember reading somewhere, ages ago, that the average '58 Impala convertible with a V8 left the showroom floor with an MSRP of around $4,000. So for a car that started at $2841, they were pretty loaded up (but most likely no a/c).

I guess my '67 Catalina is a bit rare, being a convertible with air conditioning. Especially since it was a bit on the low end, as far as full-sized convertibles go. I can still remember as a kid, asking my Mom if her '66 had a/c, and she said no, why would it have air conditioning? It was a convertible!

Both my '68 Dart 270 and '69 Dart GT hardtops had a/c as well, which I think was still pretty rare at the Dart's price point. By '68 though, I think a/c was down to around $325-350. A/c was one of those options that actually got cheaper for awhile, as the years went by, until inflation started taking its toll in the 70's.

But did they work? Lol

andre1969

On both Darts the a/c worked, but not the convertible.

texases

Mopar a/c in the 60s worked great. Too bad my 72 Duster didn’t have it, I had to add an aftermarket kit, worked ok.

uplanderguy

Now that I think about it, three of my four Studebakers had A/C. The first one, the '63, had it from the factory. The '64 was Studebaker A/C but was added by the dealer, my hometown dealer, as I saw the paperwork about it. My third had factory A/C but I can't recall if it showed on the build sheet or had been added at some point.

None of them worked. LOL.

uplanderguy

A longtime friend from college has had a '68 Olds 4-4-2 since 1980. She is having it restored. Sent me a pic of the chassis a few weeks ago. I remember decoding the numbers of it several years ago. It was built in Oshawa, ON, is a real 4-4-2, and has factory A/C, which makes me think it wasn't originally sold in our NW PA.

I'll have to do a search, but I remember Greg telling me that I think the rear end on Oshawa cars was Chevy instead of Olds as if built in Lansing. Now might be the time for me to tell her to tell her restorer.

She lived in dorm room 442 and wanted one of the cars with huge "442" graphics. She was disappointed when her Dad bought her a '68. I told her, then and now, she got the good one!

fintail

Thinking about AC, my first car with it was the W126, bought just after Y2K. I drove the non-AC fintail for years without it and survived, but having it is nice. Many cars in the PNW lacked it back in the day - I know my grandpa's 65 and 71 Chryslers lacked it, all of my dad's old Fords lacked it. I know the Tempo and T-Bird had it, I suspect the 70 Mustang did not, Horizon did not. MB didn't have factory AC until maybe just after 1970, dealer installed before that.

fintail

1958 is possible for both images - the Ponton is also from roughly that time. Likely a 220S, the 220 (no S) was an earlier variant and I think didn't sell many in this market.

The final batch of 220S/SE pontons were built until October 1959 and sold in the USDM as 1960 models, replaced by the fintail.

uplanderguy said:

A 190 at Filer's, and Mr. Filer's 220.

BTW, my friend brought the repaired sign to the Historical Society yesterday, but when we set it down, a tyne broke off one of the E's. Clean break though, so should glue.

Those letters are 78 years old, although some have been repaired previously.

I estimate the 190 pic to be 1958, only because of the shape of the roof overhang....needing some attention. There's another '58 pic I have with a new pickup and a sign advertising the Scotsman, and that overhang looks the same. Later pics show a repair and some repainting there. The fact that the signage still says "Commander" makes me think '58 also.

Hey, '58 was a recession year and terrible year for Studebaker! LOL

uplanderguy

Thanks for the info.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

I'll have to do a search, but I remember Greg telling me that I think the rear end on Oshawa cars was Chevy instead of Olds as if built in Lansing. Now might be the time for me to tell her to tell her restorer.

She lived in dorm room 442 and wanted one of the cars with huge "442" graphics. She was disappointed when her Dad bought her a '68. I told her, then and now, she got the good one!

That is true about the differentials. A restoration shop would likely recognize the Chevy rear end immediately as the Olds-built rear ends are far more rare to see these days and look physically different. Among Olds aficionados, the '70 4-4-2 is generally considered the pinnacle as they were the only year to come standard with the high-compression 455 engine whereas the '68/69 had a high compression long-stroke 400 that didn't like to rev much and tended to blow up if you pushed it too hard.

uplanderguy

Thanks for the update. I texted her that info today and said she may want to pass that on to the shop, although they may already know by looking.

Hers could be mistaken for a Cutlass Supreme if you didn’t look close. Dark maroon like plum almost, black vinyl top, lighter maroon buckets. Hers is a floor shift automatic, I’ll assume THM. Full wheel covers and whitewalls. No stripe across front clip. Neither she nor I like the looks of that stripe anyway.

To my eyes, the Cutlass line in '68 and '69 is the best-looking of all four GM divisions' intermediates.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

To my eyes, the Cutlass line in '68 and '69 is the best-looking of all four GM divisions' intermediates.

I would agree with that. Of course, I much preferred the ‘68 over the ‘69.

roadburner

A high school english teacher I had drove an orange 1972 442. It was beautiful, but sadly it only had a 350 in it. That said, I always liked the 1970 Rallye 350, even if it wasn't that quick.

uplanderguy

I have to say I didn't care much for the big hood scoops on the '70-72 body style. The three round instrument pods struck me as a little small, too.

At the time, I loved the 'Cowl Induction' hood on the Chevelle SS, as it opened and closed every time you goosed the gas. Whether it actually had an honest function, who knows.

I went with a friend to an all-Olds show a few years back. Interesting. I saw a '62 Fiesta wagon, pretty rare I think. An owner showed me, too, how the center buck-tooth section at the front of the hood on the '70 Cutlass series was made permanent to the lower body on the '71 as I guess people were conking their head on it. I think it was '70 to '71, possibly '71 to '72, not sure now.

ab348

Those '70-'72 scoops were what you got if you sprung for the top-end 455 engine. Not all 4-4-2s from that era got them, though these days they are reproduced along with the awful rear wing you could order and every restored version seems to have both, ugh. You bring up an interesting point about cowl induction and ram-air hoods in that era. I always wondered about them given that you were dealing with a carbureted engine that didn't have any way to adjust the fuel flow in conjunction with that. Aside from providing ambient-temperature air instead of hotter underhood air I really wonder how much good they actually did because all that air being rammed into the engine didn't benefit from more fuel being added. Ah well.

ETA: I should have mentioned that on the '68/'69 4-4-2 you could get ram air as well, but on those it was via 2 scoops mounted under the bumper with ducts that ran through the engine bay to the air cleaner. These are now being reproduced if you want to hack holes in your inner fenders:




You are right on the buck-tooth hood. A friend had a '70 and you always managed to hit your head on that thing hanging down if you were poking around the engine bay. They changed that for the '71/'72 models and fitted it between the grilles permanently.

uplanderguy

I forgot about the rear spoiler on those cars, not a fan either.

Even as a kid, I didn't like tack-on stuff. The worst Chevy for that, IMO, is the 'Monza Mirage'.

Late '70's and into the '80's, I loathed huge graphics and flat-black covering 1/4 or 1/3 of the car.

fintail

Saw a later run Tempo sedan on the road today, looked decent enough - the little things that are now a little fun to see. Also saw a first gen Geo Metro that looked to have been well-enjoyed.

sda

@andre1969 You may enjoy this.https://youtu.be/adioDCklE7E?si=oclViSoXfWI32Ly8

kyfdx

Nice!

andre1969

Awesome video, thanks SDA!

uplanderguy

Spotted driving in Ravenna, OH today, slightly faded red ‘65 Galaxie 500 convertible with top down, looked nice and missing the LR wheel cover.

stickguy

https://youtu.be/jUR-GC_twq8?si=Q5xoBdY7QtmMmke5

sda

Not yet a classic, a 2005ish Acura RL SH-Awd. Silver, looked nice. My sister’s husband had a pearl white 2005 RL that had 30k when he bought it and retired it with over 320k. I was with him when he bought it.

stickguy

a 5/4 scale Accord!

sda

All nice cars. The 65 Cadillac looked so much more modern than the other two. Lincoln would stay with a similar body style until 1970. https://youtube.com/shorts/bqtr3wK9k8c?si=2qYNnlqPcsnE5G0W

explorerx4

Up in Madison, WI looking at some new vehicles to replace a 2013 Escape.
Dealer had some personal cars in a separate room.

fintail

stickguy said:

a 5/4 scale Accord!

That was definitely the RLX, a now-forgotten model that sold at least a few dozen. It really looked like a slightly larger Accord, as I liked to say, 5:4 scale Accord at 2:1 the price.

Out on the road or spotted while on foot today - original looking 55 Chevy sedan, skirts, kind of a light pink/beige and white two tone. I noticed the Topaz on my jogging route has updated registration, the Taurinental on my jogging route is red - need to see if it is the same one I spot at the supermarket now and then, and the Alliance convertible now has a car cover. Also saw a 73-74 Nova looking like a period hot rod with a raised rear end, and a mild custom 60 Pontiac 2 door post.

explorerx4

This morning on I-39/I-90 heading toward Chicago, a Gen 1 metalic gray MR2 with classic plates. Driver was even wearing a headband!
Shortly after that, an OG silver RX-7 in great shape with wider offset wheels.

roadburner

explorerx4 said:

Up in Madison, WI looking at some new vehicles to replace a 2013 Escape.
Dealer had some personal cars in a separate room.

I know it's heresy, but the '55-'57 Thunderbirds never did a thing for me. My dad's law partner had one in the '60s and forever regretted selling it. He finally found another in the '90s.
I'd much rather have either of the other two, although I'd much rather have a fastback or notchback Mustang GT of that vintage.

uplanderguy

LOL on the 'Galaxie 500' tune.

I think you couldn't make a bad choice in '65 luxury cars in that commercial. I do wish the Lincoln had a coupe. Funny, the '66 facelift, with a coupe now available--I didn't like the looks as well as '65 and older, even with the addition of size and flat side glass the '64 and '65 got. The '61-63 are about perfect to my eyes.

I liked '65 Cadillac styling growing up, but one thing I always remember, the independent cornering lights on the front sides started to sag pretty early.

uplanderguy

Well, I was going to post here and thought I saved the photo, but apparently didn't and of course, since it's from a Facebook group, can't locate it there either now.....dealership ad about "Clearing out the '60 DeSotos to make room for the '61's!". Probably not a lot of 'clearing out' needed! It was a DeSoto-Plymouth-Valiant dealer.

andre1969

I wonder how buyers at the time reacted, seeing a '60 DeSoto and a '61 side by side on the sales lot? Considering how off-the-wall Chrysler styling in general was getting around that time, I always thought the '60 DeSoto and Chrysler were downright tasteful! While fins were starting to become dated, I thought the front-ends looked pretty modern...and would have still looked good, even if they'd been introduced a couple years later.

But the '61 looked like a step backwards to me. Especially when you view it from the side. The front fenders seem like they're taller, and the way that crease carries up over the front wheel opening and goes straight to the front of the car evokes memories of '57-58.

uplanderguy

I had a model of a '60 DeSoto hardtop when I was a kid! Pretty sure it was a JoHan.

Slanty headlights of the '61--when I see that styling feature (Lincolns, too), I always think, "What were they thinking?".

Saw another Ford convertible on the road yesterday, near Warren, OH. A '25-footer', baby blue '72 LTD convertible. Black top up.

andre1969

For some odd reason, I kind of like the look of the '59-60 Lincoln. But the '58, where the headlights were in pods, separate from the grille, and the grille itself was inset more, had sort of a swollen look to me.

I think the '61 DeSoto has a pretty strong resemblance to a '59-60 Lincoln up front, so maybe that's another reason why it seems like a step backward to me, compared to the '60.

uplanderguy

People complain about the '61's double-decker grille, but it doesn't bother me.

sda

For @uplanderguy https://youtu.be/UrVnNDum6Bc?si=4GurPGhiGc_XDw3Q

fintail

Today's spots - 1st gen Concorde, typical hot rod 55 Chevy 2 door post, pretty 66 Mustang convertible with GT trim, 60s Econoline, brown K-car.

xwesx

The world needs more Econoline sightings!

stickguy

Wes, did you happen to see this series? If anyone should appreciate it is you. He pulled this out of the woods after sitting for decades and got it back to (somewhat) running condition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y9Du1nmAo0&pp=ygUdcXVlc3Rpb25hYmxlIGdhcmFnZSBlY29ub2xpbmXSBwkJhgkBhyohjO8%3D

xwesx

The world needs more Econoline sightings!

stickguy said:

Wes, did you happen to see this series? If anyone should appreciate it is you. He pulled this out of the woods after sitting for decades and got it back to (somewhat) running condition.

Oh, thanks! I have not seen it, but I'll try to take a few minutes this evening to check it out.

kyfdx

An Isuzu P'up on I-75 in Tennessee

xwesx

That's a labor of love, for sure on the Econoline. That thing has sooo much cancer. Fixable, but definitely a labor of love. It was fun to see one with an inline six and a manual transmission; those were getting pretty scarce in the second generation.

uplanderguy

Thank you for posting Adam's video of that '65 Caprice. Not sure I'd have seen it otherwise.

No secret here, I have always loved the styling of the '65 full-size Chevy. The exterior, especially, to my eyes is almost perfect.

The Caprice option in '65 certainly kicked the interior up. Chevy was playing catch-up to the LTD.

I love the Evening Orchid color (called 'Iris Mist' at Pontiac that year). The color was not offered on Olds, Buick, or Cadillac.

I never thought too much one way or the other, about the instrument panels in those cars, but Adam brings up some good points IMHO. It's a quality look. I prefer it to that year's big Olds or Buick panels, although it's a far cry from the perfect (IMHO) '65 Bonneville and Grand Prix panel. (I think the lower-model big Pontiac dash that year suffers some from a wide expanse of black crinkle vinyl where the Bonneville and Grand Prix had wood veneer).

sda

It must have been a special order. Exterior dress up options, tinted glass. Minimal options otherwise. Standard 283, no ps, pb, 3sp manual. Sharp.

roadburner

uplanderguy said:

Thank you for posting Adam's video of that '65 Caprice. Not sure I'd have seen it otherwise.

No secret here, I have always loved the styling of the '65 full-size Chevy. The exterior, especially, to my eyes is almost perfect.

The Caprice option in '65 certainly kicked the interior up. Chevy was playing catch-up to the LTD.

I love the Evening Orchid color (called 'Iris Mist' at Pontiac that year). The color was not offered on Olds, Buick, or Cadillac.

I never thought too much one way or the other, about the instrument panels in those cars, but Adam brings up some good points IMHO. It's a quality look. I prefer it to that year's big Olds or Buick panels, although it's a far cry from the perfect (IMHO) '65 Bonneville and Grand Prix panel. (I think the lower-model big Pontiac dash that year suffers some from a wide expanse of black crinkle vinyl where the Bonneville and Grand Prix had wood veneer).

The story I heard about the origin of the Caprice was that the Chevrolet higher-ups wanted something more luxurious to drive since they were "encouraged" to drive cars made by Chevrolet

ab348

I’m pretty sure the addition of the Caprice mid-year was due to the intro of the Ford LTD at the beginning of the model year and its subsequent success.

I would offer a bit of a counter to some of the points raised about the ‘65 Chevy. I never cared from the front end styling with the googly eyed headlights and the weak-looking front bumper. The rear end styling looked very good, but IIRC the first half of the year’s production was made using rear springs that caused the car to look droopy in side profile. Apparently they made a parts change mid-year to fix that. I also remember seeing accounts that build quality of the ‘65 was not good.

fintail

I know I have blabbed about it before, ages ago when I was still a student, maybe 1996 or so, I recall the small Chevy dealer in the one stoplight small town adjacent to where my mom lives had a beautiful 65 Caprice for sale. Silver and black, black interior with the cloth parts maybe having a kind of brocade style, 396, immaculate looking - I forget any other options but I assume there were more than a couple. I think they wanted 6-7K for it, which was far too rich for my blood at the time.

uplanderguy

The '65 Impala (and the Caprice was an Impala option that year) set a record that hasn't been broken yet....one million sold (not including Biscayne and Bel Air). At least Arlington built Pontiacs on the same line as Chevys, so quality assembly might not have been great across the lines then.

This reminds me of something one of the two best-known Studebaker writers in the international club wrote in the late '80's in an article he did on '65 Studebakers. His parents were almond farmers in CA and longtime Studebaker customers, cars and trucks. They were friends with, and loyal to, their local Studebaker dealer, J&B Motors. One of the two dealership partners left to sell Pontiac in '64, and with South Bend closing, the writer's parents were vascillating on buying a new '65 Studebaker Cruiser, built in Hamilton, ON. On their travels, they had toured the Lansing Oldsmobile plant, and also the Hamilton plant. The writer wrote that the parents were much-more impressed with what they saw and experienced at Hamilton versus Lansing, which I can only assume was that Hamilton was smaller and most assuredly slower-moving. The writer said that made it easier for his parents to buy the '65 Cruiser their local dealer had, and help him out as on top of the South Bend closure and his partner leaving, he was in failing health at that time. They saw it partly as helping a friend out. Can you imagine anyone feeling that way now? LOL

The writer still owns his parents' '65 Cruiser.

uplanderguy

Couldn't get a pic because I was driving, but yesterday in town here in Kent I saw a very nice light turquoise '66 Galaxie 500XL convertible. Last three old cars I've seen in a week were all full-size Ford convertibles.

This '66 was in the parking lot of a local repair place on Main St.

The guy lives in Kent, and I've seen the car over the years at local cruises and shows. It's very nice. It has white vinyl buckets where the passenger seat has an option where the top horizontal section of the seat can be pushed upward for a headrest effect. It's rather hidden when that piece is in its normal position. It was also an option on Thunderbirds I was told. Rather neat. The car is bone-stock, wheelcovers, whitewalls, etc. Very sharp.