I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

texases

Yeah, Hummels are always mentioned in those 'What Boomers' kids don't want' articles.

uplanderguy

Speaking of things the kids don't want!

Bottom pic, I got these letters out of the barn loft, with the help of the current owner, and my friend Joe, this past Thursday. What a job. I think I am permanently stooped over now. When the current owner, super nice guy, bought the house, barn, and property in 1977, the sign was in the loft.

Some letters are broken off but we have the pieces to complete the lettering, mostly. I was OK with just gluing those pieces back on, but Joe offered to paint it and glue the letters back together for me. He will also make a piece or two where we don't have the broken-off piece. I kind-of don't want to paint it, but two people have told me they think otherwise.

I love Studes, and I was good friends with the family, but their son doesn't want the sign....too big. (He lives about 2.5 hrs. away)

The local historical society, of which I'm on the board, says "no room to display" and doesn't seem very enthusiastic about the whole thing. I only want to get $100 for it which in entirety will be a donation to the historical society.

Before Joe took them home to work on, we got the lower pic in front of the old building, closest the lettering and building have been since the late '60's.

I don't have space for them and my wife is adamant about my not bringing them home.

If I can't get a buyer in a couple weeks of online display, I'll see if the local newspaper will put something together. If that doesn't work--they'll probably get put in our tight basement at the historical society. I can keep them until Memorial Day, when we open for tours, in the room where we display our 1913 Empire, but it will be in the way there.

Wish me luck--as fin and I have discussed before, the font used is Studebaker's font on interior signage they sent dealers for parts and service departments as well, which makes me think the sign originally came from Stude when the building was built in '47. There is evidence of previous repairs on the sign.

Admittedly, I feel a bit like Linus waiting for the Great Pumpkin here.

fintail

What is the sign made of? Where do you plan to advertise it? I think if you include that old image in the ad and the story , you'll have a few people beating down your door for $100. Makes me think of something the "American Pickers" guys would have loved. Advertising items and automobilia are areas that have remained popular.

fintail

texases said:

Yeah, Hummels are always mentioned in those 'What Boomers' kids don't want' articles.

Several years ago I went to a company-ran sale where they had a table full of Hummels, $5 apiece. Nobody was interested. Back in the 80s/90s, there would have been a physical fight for them at that price.

My mom had a set of Franciscan "Apple" dinnerware, originally bought by her grandmother in the 40s-50s. A large assortment with dozens of pieces, including serving pieces, it was popular with collectors in the 80s-90s. She lost interest and none of the kids wanted it. She put the lot out at her sale in 2021 for something like $125. Crickets. Not even any offers. It would have brought several times that back in the day, she ended up selling it with the rest of the leftovers to an antique dealer friend of hers. For the Ohio people here, she has long had a fixation on "Roseville" pottery and has shelves of it - I remember in the 90s ordinary pieces would bring $50-100 all day long in our antique mall booth. Now I see them for $25 and I have to think if it is worth it (I get her a piece every Christmas, which earns an evil eye from my sister). When I see a normal Model A or similar era car for sale for something like $30K, I think of the same trend.

uplanderguy

The sign's made of wood.

At first, when it's done, I'll put it on my FB page, then probably on a few of Greenville's FB pages. I'll probably list it on a Studebaker FB page. Then, I'll try the local newspaper.

I can't/won't ship it. I already had an acquaintance show some interest in it, then ask me if I was planning on going to the SDC national meet in SW PA later this year. I am, but I can't deliver that sign. Even half of it hung out over the end of the tailgate of an eight-foot pickup bed. I don't own a pickup, myself.

It'll have to be cash only and you pick up.

That, and that it doesn't say "STUDEBAKER", probably hurts. But it's just something I want to try, and I think the family would like that it brought some money for the historical society.

RE.: Roseville--of course, I've heard of that, but wasn't sure where in Ohio it was made. I see, Zanesville. Seems like there were a lot of potteries in eastern Ohio. My wife's paternal grandfather's sister and spouse owned and operated "Stanford Pottery" in Sebring, OH. Their line was called "Stanfordware". Most-popular pieces included dining room sets (butter dish, creamer, salt and pepper shakers, gravy boat, etc.) that resembled corn-on-the-cob. When I travelled with my job, I'd go to antique malls and look for pieces my wife didn't have. I did eventually get a complete set for her, with a couple duplicates. We had a shelf built over the kitchen sink to display them. I think they're kind of cool, but our daughters have made it crystal-clear that they want nothing to do with them.

Stanford Pottery operated from 1945-61, and was destroyed by fire in 1961.

fintail

You'll find a buyer, maybe not on the first day of the ad, but it'll happen. I recall people liking letters for decorating, and the art deco font won't hurt.

I wonder if some old cars will end up in the "kids don't want it" situation of so many collectibles. I guess a car will always be easier to sell (if the price is right) where the knicknacks might end up being moved on for free. I hope the boomers and silents who hoarded such material aren't too offended - I know my mom isn't put off that none of us want to carry on her collections, it's just fun for her, not an investment or legacy.

stickguy

cars will be a problem. Especially when they are ones that are really not suited for more than very short drives, or need to be trailered to car shows. That right there limits the buyer pool. Factor in anitques (your model T and A stuff) that barely anyone can still work on (or knows how to drive) and definitely not nostalgic for anyone who isn't pushing 100. Then something like a 1950 4 door sedan. who these days wants one of those? Muscle cars should still have fans for a while even though the people that remember them from their youth are getting long in the tooth, because they are still cool and you can drive them.

Seems like the hot market is the 90s import stuff, which follows the trend of people collecting what they wanted in their teens, when they are in their 40s and have the money to get it finally!

uplanderguy

“‘90’s import stuff”—I personally can’t imagine anything less desirable to me, but you are so right—you want what you have good memories of when you were younger. I’m sure the Model A guys no doubt thought ‘yuck’ about ‘60’s and ‘70’s domestics that I mostly like.

texases

Most at risk: incomplete 'project cars' of most any vintage. What 30 year old wants to take on one of those? Hello, junk yard!

uplanderguy

Truer words have never been spoken.

Michaell

I know my son and at least one of my nephews wanted my dad's '70 C-10 pickup when he passed.

My mom ended up selling it and splitting the money with the 4 grandkids.

When my grandmother passed in 1980, there was talk about me inheriting her '67 Monterey coupe - I would have loved that car, even if it only got 9 MPG from the 390 engine it had.

sda

I saw, parked front and center at a church, a clean white with black vinyl top 71 Olds Delta 88 Royale coupe.

uplanderguy

I love low-mileage original cars. And I know Chevy authenticity, at least outside and interior, of this era. I know when a seller is b********ing.

This '70 Caprice sedan seems the real thing. 21,713 miles.

It is on the "Low Miles, No Miles" FB page and the car is going to auction at the Raleigh Classic Car Auction in NC, May 30.

I even like the color, which I wouldn't normally without seeing it on the car. Five-slot Rally Wheels were indeed optional equipment, although this car being a sedan, I'd wager it wasn't built/sold new with them; still, they are a correct option for the car per the brochure.

That interior is nearly a dead-ringer for the seating in the 1969 Pontiac Bonneville Brougham.

Caprice then offered brocade, which I think looks nicer, or this all-knit or all-nylon which wears like iron--much better than brocade in that regard.

I never liked the '70 Chevy's hooded headlights, a la '63/64 Cadillacs. I don't love the taillights either. But I like this seller resisted the urge to put dual exhausts on, with ridiculous round chrome tips like I see so often. I do like that the car doesn't look 'heavy' for a full-size car, and is pretty clean down the sides.

Seems like a nice, honest car. I'll be curious to see what it brings.

fintail

Yeah, I think many muscle cars and flashier malaise through 90s and even early 00s era stuff that has a 90s vibe will be popular for some time, as mentioned, younger people can relate to it. I was thinking of something today - the fintail is as old to a 15 year old today as a Model A was when I was 15. Prewar and early postwar material is already waning in price and popularity (parts are easy, it's finding someone to work on it), and wingadinga/fins and chrome is soon to follow. Maybe bargains for those who like it, but more than ever a hobby more than anything where one should keep track of money spent.

Out on the road in the old car today, spotted a Karmann Ghia, maybe 64 Falcon, nice maybe 65-66 Chevy pickup, the Mark IV that lives a few blocks away, BMW E30, 2nd gen Lexus ES in nice condition.

explorerx4

I saw a couyple of 1970 or so GM intermediates.
Black Olds 442 and a Buick Skylark. Buick looked newly done in lipstick red with white roof and interior.

roadburner

Over on the Cars and Conversations topic I mentioned that a friend just finished the restoration of the 1973 Bavaria my wife found for me in 1983. I'd buy it back if I could; it's comfortable enough and quick enough that you can drive it anywhere.The A/C is decent and the audio system I installed in 1988 still sounds remarkably good. As I've mentioned before, in1984 I crossed Pennsylvania driving the same car and averaging A bit over 100 mph one drizzly Sunday morning on my way back from the BMW CCA Octoberfest. My bride never looked up from the book she was reading.

andre1969

I'm normally not a fan of those peaked headlights either, but I think the '70 Chevy is a good looking car, overall. One little detail I never liked though, is those bulges around the wheel openings. At certain angles, when the light hits it right, they look like a bad bondo repair job to me!

At least the '70 Chevy doesn't have dividers between the headlights, like Olds did with the big cars for '71. I think the divider made them look bulkier, although to be fair, the peaks seemed more extreme on the Olds, at least in '71-72. And from certain angles, that divider makes it look odd because you can't see all four headlights
Uplander, I'm sure you love that fake vent behind the door 🤡

sda

@andre1969 said:
I'm normally not a fan of those peaked headlights either, but I think the '70 Chevy is a good looking car, overall. One little detail I never liked though, is those bulges around the wheel openings. At certain angles, when the light hits it right, they look like a bad bondo repair job to me!

At least the '70 Chevy doesn't have dividers between the headlights, like Olds did with the big cars for '71. I think the divider made them look bulkier, although to be fair, the peaks seemed more extreme on the Olds, at least in '71-72. And from certain angles, that divider makes it look odd because you can't see all four headlights

Uplander, I'm sure you love that fake vent behind the door 🤡

Only the Royale had those fins. A sporty look?

uplanderguy

That type of gingerbread usually detracts, in my eyes. I’d like that Olds better without it, but with slightly wider rocker trim.

uplanderguy

RE.: ‘69 and ‘70 Chevy side blisters—Chevelle got these from ‘70-72, but wagons and El Caminos didnt. I thought that was odd even when new.

explorerx4

Pickup spotting today.
A red Dodge Ram SRT 10(Viper engine).
A blue Gen 2 Ford Raptor SuperCab shortbed.
An early 50's Chevy in primer with 60's hubcaps for sale, Body looked straight.

texases

One like this passed by the other day, can't remember the last time I saw one in traffic:

uplanderguy

Beautiful. There's a tomato red with dog-dish caps '63 fastback Galaxie 406 like that a guy drives around here.

I remember sitting in the car with my Dad at the A&P while we waited for my Mom to shop. He pointed to the '63 Ford in front of us and said, "That's the way taillights should be, nice and big".

fintail

On the road today spotted a 70s custom kinda looking 55 Chevy 2 door post, the Alliance convertible still has its top down which may not bode well as we have rain forecast tonight, I think the registration on the Topaz I see on a jogging route may have expired, spotted an Aurora on the same street, and finished it off with a Samurai.

I can't see peaked headlights without thinking of the Marathon Man road rage (vs fintail) car:

ab348

Back to @uplanderguy 's discussion of the '70 Chevy: I never liked it at the time. I did like the '69 with the loop bumper up front, but when I saw the '70 the front end looked fussy and overly delicate to me. At least they hired Peggy Lipton of Mod Squad fame (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) to pose with the '70 in the catalog, which impressed me. On the rear styling, you can flip a coin between the two model years. It seemed GM Design had a thing that year with tall, narrow vertical taillights in the bumper, as the '70 Cutlass had ones that were very similar. Chevy was still foisting the old 2-speed Powerglide on buyers taking the smaller standard engines too, though at least by then they did offer a 3-speed TH350 finally. My memory of that generation based on our '69 was that unless you optioned up, the standard suspension was way too soft and floaty, to the point where it generated carsickness on certain roads, and body lean was terrible.

The example going up for auction is nice of course, and while the aftermarket rally wheels look good and fill out the fender blisters better than the smaller original wheels, I remain less than enthused about the '69/'70 pontoon fender design and that generation overall.

uplanderguy

The 350 was standard on full-size Chevys in ‘70, and unscientifically, it seems that most I’d seen had THM. The THM was first used in big engines on '65's, but I you could get it on 327's by '67, at least on SS and Caprice models.

We discussed this a few years ago, but I saw a ‘71 Pontiac Catalina at a show with its original window sticker. It had a two-speed automatic which I wouldn’t have guessed. This particular car was pretty plain, dog dish caps and trimmed outside like a Chevy Bel Air.

Family friends of ours had a ‘70 Impala pillared sedan and ‘71 Impala Custom Coupe at the same time. I remember the son my age saying probably in the mid-seventies, how the ‘70 seemed tighter and had a better interior.

My late friend, HCC columnist Bob Palma, worked the summer of ‘69 as a service writer at an Indianapolis Chevy-Olds dealer. He told me he really liked the ‘69 big Chevys but when they got their first ‘70, he thought the facelift ruined the design.

RE.: Marathon Man—I saw that in our hometown theater when it was current.

uplanderguy

Greg, when you mentioned "Peggy Lipton", I instantly knew the brochure pic you were talking about! The stuff you remember after 55 years, LOL.

I scooped that brochure up at the time, checked the boxes of stuff I wanted on the back page, and along with many other brochures, kept it for a long time.

This lady is, as 'Newman' would say, "quite fetching".

uplanderguy

Here's the back cover of the '70 brochure. I hadn't thought about the dual-stripe tires in a long time.

ab348

Since we're posting brochure pics, here's one showing something I don't know if I've ever seen. Certainly not at car shows and the like in recent years. I find these hubcaps very attractive but have to guess they didn't have a big take rate:

uplanderguy

The very first new '70 Caprice (a hardtop sedan), AND Monte Carlo I ever saw, both had those wheel covers. Both cars were light blue metallic. I remember not liking them much, but in a dark color like you showed, I think they look nice.

Mildly amusing story about when I saw the first new '70 Caprice. It was in my hometown dealer's little detailing building. I rode my bike down there and walked in to look at it. The detailing guy was a kind, religious, soft-spoken guy, always nice. In there was grumpy old salesman Virgil, who had started at the dealership in 1936 when they opened. My Dad didn't care for him for some reason. Virgil must've been getting tired of me being underfoot by then, as I remember him saying to me, a kid, "Almost $5,000 for this car; you could buy a Buick or Olds for that". The Buick/Olds-combined dealer was on the other end of town. His vibe made me think, then and now, that that was his way of saying "Scram!". LOL

The Chevy dealer was also the Cadillac dealer.

uplanderguy

This is mostly for andre.

We had discussed sticker prices of this car and andre's Mom's '80 Malibu. Hers had A/C but our '80 Monte did not.

I stumbled onto this while looking for something else. I hadn't seen it in years. I did remember the $7,070 at the bottom.

Best option value: Value Appearance Group for $120. Included Rally Wheels, sill and rocker moldings, belt moldings, painted pinstriping, and twin body-colored Sport Mirrors, LH remote-control. It's hard to believe you got all that for $120.

The 205-70 tires were standard equipment, so that optional charge is for the whitewalls.

imidazol97

A couple of Fords traveling east on I 70. I wonder if there's a Ford convention somewhere east of here.

uplanderguy

Too late to edit the window sticker post with this pic of the car.

The ‘81 styling was a huge improvement, but I did like how the ‘80 was the last year with 205-70 tires and sport suspension standard.

uplanderguy

A 190 at Filer's, and Mr. Filer's 220.

BTW, my friend brought the repaired sign to the Historical Society yesterday, but when we set it down, a tyne broke off one of the E's. Clean break though, so should glue.

Those letters are 78 years old, although some have been repaired previously.

I estimate the 190 pic to be 1958, only because of the shape of the roof overhang....needing some attention. There's another '58 pic I have with a new pickup and a sign advertising the Scotsman, and that overhang looks the same. Later pics show a repair and some repainting there. The fact that the signage still says "Commander" makes me think '58 also.

Hey, '58 was a recession year and terrible year for Studebaker! LOL

uplanderguy

Interesting pic from FB this morning:

sda

@uplanderguy said:
This is mostly for andre.

We had discussed sticker prices of this car and andre's Mom's '80 Malibu. Hers had A/C but our '80 Monte did not.

I stumbled onto this while looking for something else. I hadn't seen it in years. I did remember the $7,070 at the bottom.

Best option value: Value Appearance Group for $120. Included Rally Wheels, sill and rocker moldings, belt moldings, painted pinstriping, and twin body-colored Sport Mirrors, LH remote-control. It's hard to believe you got all that for $120.

The 205-70 tires were standard equipment, so that optional charge is for the whitewalls.

Is Dart Chevy-Cadillac still operating? I remember posting sometime ago the window sticker of our 76 Cutlass Supreme wagon. It was nicely equipped with ac, cruise, power locks, split bench seat, 3rd row seating, radio delete. It was about $6800. Dad had the Olds dealer install a Delco 4 speaker AM-FM Stereo 8 track and mast antenna. I have no idea what that cost or the final cost of the car. He had the mast antenna installed instead of using the windshield based antenna as we lived in rural VA, about 10 miles from Farmville.

kyfdx

uplanderguy said:

This is mostly for andre.

We had discussed sticker prices of this car and andre's Mom's '80 Malibu. Hers had A/C but our '80 Monte did not.

I stumbled onto this while looking for something else. I hadn't seen it in years. I did remember the $7,070 at the bottom.

Best option value: Value Appearance Group for $120. Included Rally Wheels, sill and rocker moldings, belt moldings, painted pinstriping, and twin body-colored Sport Mirrors, LH remote-control. It's hard to believe you got all that for $120.

The 205-70 tires were standard equipment, so that optional charge is for the whitewalls.

No A/C?

uplanderguy

Nope, no AC! My parents' first car with AC was the '84 Monte Carlo they bought upon trading in this '80.

Dart Chevrolet-Cadillac added Buick and Olds sometime in the mid'80's I think, when Stevenson Buick-Olds retired. Dart's retired in I think about '92. It was bought by Stackhouse from Youngstown for a couple years, then a new owner called it 'Greenville Motors' and built a beautiful building with waiting room with fireplace and (real, LOL) art on the walls--on the SW side of town, leaving town--when all the other retail expansion was on the far-east part of town. Driving south, you couldn't even see the building from the road as it was up on a hill, kind-of behind you. They were open maybe six or seven years. Greenville has no GM dealer since.

That building's been a few things since. Evel Knievel's son actually was building custom cycles there for a year or two. Don't know what it is now.

Dart's location, 15 S. Water St., looks rough now but is a smallish manufacturing concern now called "Advanced Packaging" IIRC.

kyfdx

uplanderguy said:

Nope, no AC! My parents' first car with AC was the '84 Monte Carlo they bought upon trading in this '80.

Dart Chevrolet-Cadillac added Buick and Olds sometime in the mid'80's I think, when Stevenson Buick-Olds retired. Dart's retired in I think about '92. It was bought by Stackhouse from Youngstown for a couple years, then a new owner called it 'Greenville Motors' and built a beautiful building with waiting room with fireplace and (real, LOL) art on the walls--on the SW side of town, leaving town--when all the other retail expansion was on the far-east part of town. Driving south, you couldn't even see the building from the road as it was up on a hill, kind-of behind you. They were open maybe six or seven years. Greenville has no GM dealer since.

That building's been a few things since. Evel Knievel's son actually was building custom cycles there for a year or two. Don't know what it is now.

Dart's location, 15 S. Water St., looks rough now but is a smallish manufacturing concern now called "Advanced Packaging" IIRC.

I bought new cars in '77 and '82. No A/C. My first car with A/C was in 1990. (and that was a used car)

ab348

I was surprised to see the statement on the sticker that the engine was manufactured at a Chevrolet engine plant. Whenever I see reference to a 3.8 engine from GM I assume it is a Buick engine made at the Buick plant in Flint. Was this something else that I am forgetting about?

uplanderguy

In 1980 Chevy started putting their own 229 in Malibus and Monte Carlo’s and full-sizes. Not sure about Camaros, which I never looked at then, lol. At the time I think I remember it being 115 hp vs. the Buick’s 110, but Andre has said it had less torque than the Buick. I never even thought to look into ‘torque’ then.

andre1969

That is kind of wild, to think that even at $7,072, that Monte didn't have a/c. I can't remember exactly how much my Mom's Malibu was, but I remember her saying "about $7,000." According to Consumer Guide, its base price was $5502.

As for options, it had an automatic transmission (standard on the Monte Carlo), power steering/brakes (were those standard on a Malibu by then? Can't remember) Air conditioning, AM/FM radio with one speaker. Windshield tint, rear window defogger. 195/75/R14 white wall tires. Full width hubcaps (I'm guessing some kind of dog dish might have still been standard?) It also had a thick rub strip just under the crease on the lower body. I never really thought about it, but maybe that was an option, too?

Interior was vinyl, which I used to think was the cheapest of the cheap, but it turns out the fabric was standard, and the vinyl was actually an upgrade! As a kid I just always thought cloth/fabric was better, because it didn't burn you in the summer time!

The base price of the Monte Carlo was considerably higher than the Malibu, but in its defense you got a few features, such as the larger tires, standard automatic transmission, and a nicer interior. So there really was more to it than just an upscale body style.

uplanderguy

I remember one of those TV local car review segments where they tested an ‘80 Cutlass Supreme Brougham sedan with 260 but otherwise with all the power stuff. Pretty sure it stickered at 9k.

A small thing, but when I bought my ‘81 Monte Carlo, I briefly priced a Grand Prix and was surprised to see dog dish caps were standard and a clock was optional. Full covers and clock came on every Monte but of course the GP had a center armrest and better dash.

andre1969

Yeah, that first year, the 229 had something like 175 ft-lb of torque, vs 190 for the Buick 231. At some point during the run though, they did get the 229 up to the same 190 ft-lb, I believe. The 229 wasn't available in California, at least not in 1980, so CA cars got the 231. Also, the 1980 LeMans got the 229 (231 in CA). In '78-79, it had been 231-standard, across the board.

I remember my Mom's old Malibu feeling fine, acceleration-wise, although I know that if I had to drive something like that today, I'd probably hate it, after getting used to faster cars. From what I've heard though, I don't think the 1980 229 was much quicker than the 1978-79 had been with the 200. The 200 used a 2.73:1 axle, while the 229 had a 2.41:1, so taller axle offset most, if not all, hp and torque improvements. On the plus side, the 229 got slightly better fuel economy. The EPA only lists the city figure for those years, but the 229 had a city rating of 19, while the 200 was 18. However, in manual shift, the 229 was 20, vs 22 for the 200.

Interestingly, the LeMans went back to the Buick 231 for 1981.

andre1969

Oh, and yep, the Camaro got the 229 as well for 1980-81, although again, the Buick 231 went in California cars. The Firebird used the 231, but it had been using that engine before 1980.

kyfdx

A/C was pretty expensive, as a percentage of the MSRP, IIRC. Of course, I didn't buy a new car with A/C until 1994, and it was standard then.

I want to say $500-$700 on a $6K-$8K car.

uplanderguy

When the '78 Monte Carlo came out, it came standard with the Buick 231. Midway, that 200 became standard and the 231 optional. The brochure actually shows a 4-speed available with a 231. The question is, "Why?", LOL.

The 231 was only 105 hp for ‘78.

roadburner

My parent's last car with no A/C was the 64.5 Mustang my mother destroyed. My SPL311 didn't have it (of course) and neither did my 1975 2002 (but I would have added it if I had kept it). Back in 1980 I looked at a new Capri RS Turbo (orange with funky green stripes) but it didn't have A/C; hard pass.

uplanderguy

Roadburner, remind me where you grew up. We lived in NW PA, largely blue-collar town. My Dad worked at the post office though. I remember seeing quite a few Monte Carlo’s and full size Chevys at our hometown dealer without AC, even into the very late ‘70’s. When I told my friend from Indy that a few years back, he said he was surprised.

roadburner

uplanderguy said:

Roadburner, remind me where you grew up. We lived in NW PA, largely blue-collar town. My Dad worked at the post office though. I remember seeing quite a few Monte Carlo’s and full size Chevys at our hometown dealer without AC, even into the very late ‘70’s. When I told my friend from Indy that a few years back, he said he was surprised.

About 15 miles south of Louisville, KY.