I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

fintail

On the road today saw an immaculate maybe 70 Cutlass convertible, metallic blue, not sure if a 442 as it was a slight distance away.

In the past I mentioned seeing on several occasions a Corvette from around 1960 sitting in the driveway of a house several blocks away - last month's streetview update caught it, although hard to see in all angles provided:



Fast rewind back to August 2016 and there it is again, with the 55 Chevy I often see also sitting in the driveway much of the year:

andre1969

Yep, the Bewitched house is a replica of a real house. The real house is located at 267 18th Street, Santa Monica, CA. The replica was a mirror reverse of it. The real house was used in the 1959 movie "Gidget", so maybe it's appropriate that for the series, she lived right next door, to the replica!

Here's a Google street view. Someone must be up to no good, because judging from that LTD, it looks like Barnaby Jones was called in!

uplanderguy

The '60 Corvette--probably the hardest model year for me to ID. It's virtually identical to a '59. Someone at a cruise-in told me the pleats in the seats run different directions from '59 to '60, although now I can't remember which is which. Another way is, the "CORVETTE" written on the instrument panel right side has a small red, and blue, horizontal section, above, and below, the word "CORVETTE" on the '60.

Growing up, seems I saw a fair amount of '58-60 Corvettes. I was in my teens when I first saw a '61 or '62. When I saw the rear, I thought, "What is that?". The '62 is absolutely my favorite Corvette. Dechromed a good bit, pastel colors gone, white coves gone, hash marks gone, replaced with a rocker molding and first year for the 327 and narrow whitewalls. This would be my dream Corvette, in a subdued color I love, Fawn Beige. I'd be delirious with even the 250 hp engine and Powerglide. King pins and drum brakes and two-speed automatic, but I don't even care.

I always have appreciated that the Corvette is in the same place in the lineup as it was when introduced 72 years ago.

As discussed here previously though, the C1 wasn't designed for anyone with anything even remotely resembling a paunch.

fintail

On foot today, the Shelby Shadow is back, now parked on the street, also spotted a Suzuki Aerio notchback and an XL-7, two fairly forgotten and now aging cars.

benjaminh

This came up on fb today...

"Red '59 Superior Coaches Pontiac Criterion Suburban ambulance advertising capture, scanned from a cache of factory slides. Featuring 46" headroom with ability of transporting a litter of 4 patients, model #2587 originally carried an $8,351 base price. Note tinted glass and optional white walls."

andre1969

There's a junkyard a bit below Culpeper VA, Leon's Auto Salvage, that had a couple of those Pontiac conversions in it. One was a 1961 ambulance, and the other was a 1964 hearse. I remember they also had a '58 Cadillac hearse.

I'm sure they're long gone by now, though. I haven't been down there since 1997, so that's plenty of time for things to change!

tjc78

fintail said:

On foot today, the Shelby Shadow is back, now parked on the street, also spotted a Suzuki Aerio notchback and an XL-7, two fairly forgotten and now aging cars.

There can't be many Shelby Shadows still around. Was it an 87/88 in black or the 89 only Red/Gold?

gsemike

Up in Troy NY for college drop-off and finally stopped for a quick look at this custom shop that I had driven past a few times. Nice diversity in what they are working on.

Should have gotten a better Pic of the 62 Buick. That is pretty custom

stickguy

RPI?

Troy has a great farmers market on Saturday morning inThe summer. I live about 15 minutes from downtown.

explorerx4

Couldn't get any pictures but in the last coupe of days I've seen 4 last generation Firebirds.

laurasdada

I'm drawn to the Fiat 124.
Do I have a problem?

stickguy

if you do, I have the same one.

gsemike

@stickguy said:
RPI?

Troy has a great farmers market on Saturday morning inThe summer. I live about 15 minutes from downtown.

Yep. 2nd year majoring in computer and electrical engineering. Cool little downtown. The farmers market is good

fintail

56 Chevy at that shop looks to maybe be "Sierra Gold" and "Adobe Beige", a color combo I remember referenced on a 56 Nomad I saw in a book when I was younger and thought was amazing looking.

On foot today some reruns - saw that Corvette sitting out, top up, saw the Concorde I spotted a few weeks ago, noticed it has gold emblems for extra 90s flair, and saw the brown K-car sedan I spot now and then.

fintail

White, CXS-T I think. IIRC white was 88 only. It's this car from my street view pics:'

tjc78 said:

fintail said:

On foot today, the Shelby Shadow is back, now parked on the street, also spotted a Suzuki Aerio notchback and an XL-7, two fairly forgotten and now aging cars.

There can't be many Shelby Shadows still around. Was it an 87/88 in black or the 89 only Red/Gold?

fintail

Another one in a real estate ad, mid 60s Stingray maybe? Distinctive rear shape - there was a Hagerty item in the house so it appears to be something special interest:

xwesx

Yeah, I think it has a pretty good chance of being that. With the way the back corner wraps around with that double peak (rear quarter and bumper) along with the door handle bump.... The only problem is I feel like it needs more of a rear fend hump, or the rear window wedge that those years had. It seems like that trunk just slopes down, but really hard to tell with the silvery texture.

uplanderguy

I'd guess a C2 convertible, maybe with removable hardtop, or a '61-62 convertible without the hardtop.

uplanderguy

Someone gave me this a few days ago, although it's broken in a couple places. The Chevy dealer in my hometown from 1936-1992. Also sold Cadillac.

My grandparents bought new 1954, 58, 63, 67, and 71 cars there; my parents bought a used 1956 and new 67, 73, 74, 77, 80, 84, and 90 cars there, and I bought new 1981 and 82 cars there.

In my mind, I always compare dealers I bought from to Dart's, and most fall short, LOL.

explorerx4

These short films are prety old now.
This is the first one I watched. The chuckle at the end hooked me on them.
This on was directed by John Frankenheimer.
Also, these put Clive Owen on the map.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW11Lez4elc

tjc78

@fintail said:
White, CXS-T I think. IIRC white was 88 only. It's this car from my street view pics:'

That’s the rental car one. Less HP if I recall.

uplanderguy

Harry Truman Historical Site (the home) put these photos on their FB page in late July, of his last car, a '72 Chrysler Newport Royal that now has under 19K miles. No New Yorker or Imperial for Harry and Bess; an entry-level Chrysler, but he did choose power windows.

Bess utilized the car until her death in 1982. Truman was a lifelong Mopar man.

I swear I saw Newport Royals this color growing up in my working-class hometown.

When wife and I visited the site last year (fascinating, but short tour), I asked our guide, a U.S. Park Service ranger, how close I could get to the car. It was in the garage with the door open. He said, "Not very, you need to stay outside the gate at the end of the driveway". After our home tour ended, he spotted us there and let us in the gate and said I could go up to the garage but not inside it. I appreciated his doing that.

fintail

I am sure I have mentioned it before, before I was born my grandpa bought a fuselage Chrysler of roughly the same year and maybe the same color (I think 90% were green). Apparently it was an impulse buy as he really liked the styling, but photos of it are pretty scant, the only one I could find in the stack at my mom's place is this - looks like the same door panel pattern, and those doors are insanely thick:



He had it for several years, I recall being told it was a 383 car and they nicknamed it "the tank" and it wasn't a bad car, but had some cold start/drivability quirks maybe normal for the era.

fintail

tjc78 said:

@fintail said:

White, CXS-T I think. IIRC white was 88 only. It's this car from my street view pics:'

That’s the rental car one. Less HP if I recall.

Yep, Thrifty from what I read. Production of 1001 units, a bit rare.

uplanderguy

That pic looks like either a '72 or '73, and the same model as Harry and Bess chose.

That green was popular for sure.

A high school friend of mine drove his parents' '72 Town and Country, and it had a green interior but I can't say I remember those door panels, other than the screw-on armrests. Theirs had 50/50 split front bench seat with dual center armrests.

Your grandfather just looks like a nice guy in that pic.

UPDATE: I see your grandparents' car was a four-door hardtop, as opposed to four-door pillared sedan the Trumans owned.

thebean

I read this book a couple of years ago. It was interesting to see how down to earth HST was.

uplanderguy

I'll have to read that book.

fintail

uplanderguy said:

That pic looks like either a '72 or '73, and the same model as Harry and Bess chose.

That green was popular for sure.

A high school friend of mine drove his parents' '72 Town and Country, and it had a green interior but I can't say I remember those door panels, other than the screw-on armrests. Theirs had 50/50 split front bench seat with dual center armrests.

Your grandfather just looks like a nice guy in that pic.

UPDATE: I see your grandparents' car was a four-door hardtop, as opposed to four-door pillared sedan the Trumans owned.

Yes, it was a hardtop, I know I have seen a couple other pics of the car but not sure where they are. In one pic I swear it had dog dish caps, something I can't find in a quick google - but maybe for snow tires or something (but not sure he ever bothered with those in Seattle). I think it did not have AC, typical of Seattle area cars at the time. He was a nice guy - things that stick in my head were his good Jerry Lewis impressions, and when we were little kids he would surprise my siblings and I sneaking up on us and by "zipping" a comb close to our ear. WWII vet but and open minded/pragmatic about cars, when I was a little kid he had a job where he could choose a company car, and usually had a Toyota, but once a VW (a final year Beetle IIRC).

Here's another with the same two people as in the green car pic, this is his prior car, the "red car", a 65 Newport, with the same woman as in the color pic, my great-grandmother, who at around age 60 took on the little old lady style and looked very close to that until she passed at age 100 in 2000. Per my uncle, the 65 (another 383) was a very solid car that never gave any trouble, I think it was relatively new in this pic - I am older than my grandpa was in this pic, funny to think about:

explorerx4

Got a couple of pics. Don't see these every day.

fintail

560SL at top, the most desirable 107 but still affordable in clean driver condition, only the best low mileage cars bring big money (and almost never close to original MSRP which was huge (around 65K by 1989).

uplanderguy

That maroon on ‘65 Chryslers was pretty popular. I liked the ‘65 restyle by Elwood Engel (I’m pretty sure) a mile better than the ‘63 and ‘64.

ab348

The ‘65 and ‘66 big Chryslers seemed the high-water mark for that make. Nicely styled, seemingly well-made in an era when that was challenging for Chrysler Corp., and the ‘66 model year saw the introduction of the 440 V8.

uplanderguy

fin, I'm trying to picture your grandfather doing "HEY LADY!". LOLOL

stickguy

got behind a Buick today that was stinking of gas. a 1985-90 vintage. Had an Electra badge on the back that looked not at all OEM, bright chrome and big script that looked out of place. To my surprise, there was an Electra version of the vintage. I think it was basically a Lesabre. A little tired looking, and some weird hair on the driver and passenger.

uplanderguy

I’m too lazy to look at the brochure online, but I remember an “Electra 380” of that FWD era. It’s easy to think of all of those cars as “Park Avenue”—I do it myself. I actually knew a guy at work that had a two-door Electra T-Type of that era too. Hated the two-door roofline on those.

andre1969

Yep, they were still called "Electra" in the 1985-90 generation. "Park Avenue" was just a trim level. It wasn't always the most expensive, though, because there was also an Electra T-type. And in towards the later years, there was also an Electra Park Avenue Ultra. 1991 was when "Park Avenue" became the model name, and it was simplified to just the base model, or the Ultra.

andre1969

For 1985, my auto encyclopedia lists base (no trim level name), "Park Avenue," and "T-Type" for the Electra. However, I distinctly remember those "300" and "380" designations. I imagine that was just for the base model, which came standard with the 110 hp 3.0, optional with the 125 hp 3.8. The Park Ave and T-type came standard with the 3.8. I wonder though, if a Park Ave or T-type would have also had a "380" badge on it?

For 1986, the 3.8 became standard on all Electras, with 140 hp. Annoyingly, if you got the LeSabre with a 3.8 that year, it had 150 hp! The LeSabre came standard with a 3.0 though, which was boosted a bit to 125 hp...most likely a jump from 2-bbl carb to PFI. The LeSabre would get the 3.8 standard for '87, and that year both it and the Electra both had 150 hp.

I imagine when the LeSabre downsized for '86, it put some pressure on the Electra. In 1985, the Electra was a novelty, sort of like how GM's downsized big cars had been for 1977. But when the LeSabre came out for '86, it was just too similar. In the past, GM was able to convince people that a C-body Buick/Olds was worth the extra money in prestige, presence, luxury, etc, over a B-body Buick/Olds. But once they shrunk down and went FWD, it took a lot more convincing, and GM just couldn't do that.

The Buick got a reprieve with the '91 redesign, when the whole lineup was renamed "Park Avenue," and "Electra" was retired. Sales roughly doubled from the previous year, from around 49.5K to around 109.5K units. However, that redesign did the Ninety Eight no favors. It moved around 60K units in 1990, but dropped to 55K for 1991.

As for the 2-door vs the 4-door models...I wonder if the 2-door C-bodies actually shared the same roofline as the 4-door, making them technically a 2-door sedan? They were poor sellers, and dropped after 1987. I thought the LeSabre/Delta 88 2-doors were sharp looking, though. I'm guessing they were a bit more low-slung than the 4-doors, which should make them a true coupe.

fintail

uplanderguy said:

fin, I'm trying to picture your grandfather doing "HEY LADY!". LOLOL

I can still hear his impressions now. He passed in 2003, 16 years after having a big heart attack where IIRC his doctor said there were no guarantees - I think he did well. Made it into his 80s too.

Om the 1965 subject, Adam just released a new video on the subject of that being perhaps the best overall model year for American cars. I have to agree, I think design and maybe even quality were about at their zenith - there weren't really any "bad" choices:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ1LW6u4EiI

In the video he hints that he likes the 60 Ford, too.

Michaell

My cousin's grandmother (on his mom's side) had a '65 Fury convertible, white over blue. When she moved from NY to CA to be closer to her family, my cousin helped drive it out. What a trip that must have been!

Here's a pic of a similar car:

tjc78

@andre1969 said:
For 1985, my auto encyclopedia lists base (no trim level name), "Park Avenue," and "T-Type" for the Electra. However, I distinctly remember those "300" and "380" designations. I imagine that was just for the base model, which came standard with the 110 hp 3.0, optional with the 125 hp 3.8. The Park Ave and T-type came standard with the 3.8. I wonder though, if a Park Ave or T-type would have also had a "380" badge on it?

For 1986, the 3.8 became standard on all Electras, with 140 hp. Annoyingly, if you got the LeSabre with a 3.8 that year, it had 150 hp! The LeSabre came standard with a 3.0 though, which was boosted a bit to 125 hp...most likely a jump from 2-bbl carb to PFI. The LeSabre would get the 3.8 standard for '87, and that year both it and the Electra both had 150 hp.

I imagine when the LeSabre downsized for '86, it put some pressure on the Electra. In 1985, the Electra was a novelty, sort of like how GM's downsized big cars had been for 1977. But when the LeSabre came out for '86, it was just too similar. In the past, GM was able to convince people that a C-body Buick/Olds was worth the extra money in prestige, presence, luxury, etc, over a B-body Buick/Olds. But once they shrunk down and went FWD, it took a lot more convincing, and GM just couldn't do that.

The Buick got a reprieve with the '91 redesign, when the whole lineup was renamed "Park Avenue," and "Electra" was retired. Sales roughly doubled from the previous year, from around 49.5K to around 109.5K units. However, that redesign did the Ninety Eight no favors. It moved around 60K units in 1990, but dropped to 55K for 1991.

As for the 2-door vs the 4-door models...I wonder if the 2-door C-bodies actually shared the same roofline as the 4-door, making them technically a 2-door sedan? They were poor sellers, and dropped after 1987. I thought the LeSabre/Delta 88 2-doors were sharp looking, though. I'm guessing they were a bit more low-slung than the 4-doors, which should make them a true coupe.

There was a Lincoln commercial where they poked fun at all the GM varients that looked the same.

andre1969

Yep, and then there was this smart-[non-permissible content removed] Cadillac response:
https://youtu.be/qd1ryfW7thg
I heard that this was actually put together by a group of Cadillac dealers, though, and not by GM, themselves.

andre1969

1965 was an awesome year for the American auto industry, with regards to newness, style, and sales, but I dunno about quality. At least, not initial quality. I remember Consumer Reports, in their 1965 auto issue, mentioning record numbers of defects in almost all of their test cars.

uplanderguy

I think you couldn't go wrong with a '65 domestic Big Three full-size for looks. All were new that year.

I didn't like the Dodge's two enormous tunnelled areas for instruments inside, though. All I can think about is a 46DD bra, LOL. Maybe 2005 or so Corollas had a similar design there.

The New Yorker had clear taillight lenses, at least for the first part of the model year, with red bulbs. I always liked that look on those cars. Later cars with that concept though, always looked to me like the red lenses were broken out, when all you could see was the chrome-like background inside the lens.

uplanderguy

andre mentioned the LeSabre and Eighty-Eight FWD coupes. I liked those cars too. To me, an easy way to get the traditional buyer into FWD....a bit of modern, a bit of old-skool. I feel similarly about the first Lumina coupes that weren't the 'Euro' model. Never saw many, that's for sure. My Dad actually test-drove one before he bought a new '90 V6 Corsica.

Buick and Olds had a light turquoise metallic one of those years that was striking to my eyes. Never saw many that color.

I tend to like the Buick's styling better, mostly because I don't like yellow taillights. I like the four headlights better, and the bright-surrounded taillights of the first ones better, but I know the automatic transmission a couple years down the pike was better.

uplanderguy

P.S. Park Avenues and T-Types during those FWD Electra years did not have 3.8 or 380 badging on them.

uplanderguy

I gotta admit to enjoying that Caddy commercial, LOL.

Yes, I know, they wrung every last drop out of that body style, but I liked it in the era of that commercial--no engine badging on the front fenders, body-color side moldings that gave the clean look of no side moldings, and pre the year they were silver on the lower body and had the filled-in rear-door quarter windows, both of which earn a 'yuck' from me.

andre1969

That was 1990-92 that they went to the composite headlights, silver on the lower body, and what I always called the "R-body" roof treatment, because the way they put the vinyl around the rear quarter window in the door made me think of the '79-81 New Yorker.

I wasn't a big fan of that update, either. I guess Cadillac figured they had to do something though, to compete with the new '90 Town Car. The RWD Brougham became more of a niche model starting in 1985, as volume shifted to the FWD models. In '85-88 they still sold around 50-55K units. One of those years, they got up to around 65K. For '89 they were down to 40K, but when the new Town Car hit the scene, they fell off fast. 33K for 1990, 27K for 1991, and only 13K for 1992. I know the economy was getting shaky around that time, and we had Desert Shield/Storm to contend with, but I think the new Town Car was the main culprit for that drop towards the end.

And the bloated 1993 redesign didn't really help things much. They managed around 32K units the first year. But then in 1994, when it got the LT-1 350, it dropped a bit to around 27K. Then 16K for 1995 and 15K for 1996.

I've wondered though, if by the time 1993-96 came around, they were limiting production on purpose, because of fuel economy concerns? And I know towards the end, they were switching to more profitable 4-door Tahoe/Yukons. Plus, stricter side impact standards were in store for 1997, which the Fleetwood (And Caprice, Impala SS, and Roadmaster) couldn't meet, so I think GM just gave up on them.

uplanderguy

That '93 Fleetwood--while it looked like a Caddy, never did much for me. Don't like the chrome rocker trim halfways up the sides--too much--and never liked the instrument panel.

Caddy buyers who paid attention (probably not many), probably were irked that it was built at Arlington alongside common Chevys and Buicks.

ab348

andre1969 said:

I heard that this was actually put together by a group of Cadillac dealers, though, and not by GM, themselves.

It looks like it was done by Cadillac's ad agency though. Same narrator and same graphics.

ab348

andre1969 said:

And the bloated 1993 redesign didn't really help things much. They managed around 32K units the first year. But then in 1994, when it got the LT-1 350, it dropped a bit to around 27K. Then 16K for 1995 and 15K for 1996.

I've wondered though, if by the time 1993-96 came around, they were limiting production on purpose, because of fuel economy concerns? And I know towards the end, they were switching to more profitable 4-door Tahoe/Yukons. Plus, stricter side impact standards were in store for 1997, which the Fleetwood (And Caprice, Impala SS, and Roadmaster) couldn't meet, so I think GM just gave up on them.

"Bloated" is a good word to describe those cars regardless of brand. Chuck Jordan was running GM Design then and I have to wonder what they were thinking with any of the variants (you left out the equally unattractive 1991 and '92 Olds Custom Cruiser). It's hard to understand how any of them got approved for production. I remember seeing them appear and just being astounded how big, heavy and ungainly any of them looked. I have to think that their lack of appeal among potential buyers limited production more than anything.