Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

benjaminh

When Costco is having a sale their prices on Michelin tires are good. Unlike other places the prices include installation and a 5-year hazard warranty. I've seen online how many swear by these Defender tires, and some say they do get 70k or more out of them....I'm hoping for 60k-70k out of my CC2 tires. Currently at 43k with them, and it seems like it might be possible.

nyccarguy

@corvette said:
Continental ProContact TX... They only come with 8/32" of tread depth from the factory, so not much to work with in terms of wear. Mine's an EcoBoost XL with AWD. They wore evenly with no issues, I just beat on it occasionally.

Considering Sumitomos since my company owns a significant portion of their parent company.

Ive had very good luck with Michelin Defender LTX before. My Dad has Bridgestone Duelers on his ‘23 Tahoe RST from the factory. He’s got 60K miles on them and they still look good tread depth wise and ride great. I’m going to order him a new set of tires before the weather turns.

benjaminh

Now that my extended family owns two Outbacks, the Edmunds Cost to Own chart is of interest, even though the costs for the '25 will be carried by next gen and partner. These charts seem more or less on the money for most things, but thank goodness for maintenance and repairs their estimates seem high.

For instance, back when I got my 2018 Acura TLX the estimate was similar to what's shown here for a 2025 Subaru. Iirc it estimated about 5k for maintenance and $1k for repairs during the first 5 years/75k miles for my TLX. But my actual costs for maintenance at the Acura dealer, sometimes going beyond the maintenance schedule (for the transmission service, for instance) for the first 7 years and 90k miles have actually been $2700, with $0 for repairs.

I know we won't do that well with the Subarus, but my guess is we'll still spend less than this chart. One thing we are saving big on is when it comes to interest costs. The chart shows that you might pay as much as $6k in interest for a 5 year loan from the bank. With the 0.9% we have from Subaru for a three year loan the interest charges are only c. $400, and so we saved more than $5k right there. These charts are interesting, but also make you take stock of all the costs that come with owning a car. Depreciation is a huge cost for most vehicles.

With this link below you can put in the info for most vehicles from the last five years.

https://www.edmunds.com/tco.html

Michaell

benjaminh said:

When Costco is having a sale their prices on Michelin tires are good. Unlike other places the prices include installation and a 5-year hazard warranty. I've seen online how many swear by these Defender tires, and some say they do get 70k or more out of them....I'm hoping for 60k-70k out of my CC2 tires. Currently at 43k with them, and it seems like it might be possible.

benjaminh said:

When Costco is having a sale their prices on Michelin tires are good. Unlike other places the prices include installation and a 5-year hazard warranty. I've seen online how many swear by these Defender tires, and some say they do get 70k or more out of them....I'm hoping for 60k-70k out of my CC2 tires. Currently at 43k with them, and it seems like it might be possible.

I just looked; I've got about 24,000 miles on our CC2's in almost 3 years. Should easily get 50K or more out of them, at the rate of wear we're seeing.

benjaminh

It does seem like the the estimate of $1272 in maintenance for the first two years for an Outback is about right. The estimate by Edmunds is based on a high 15k miles a year of driving. Subaru's maintenance schedule calls for more frequent oil changes than most, at every six months or 6k miles.

So for the first 30,000 miles you'd need about six oil changes + tire rotations, which at Bachman Subaru's prices would be about $700. Looking at the Subaru service schedule the other things you'd need at 30k would be brake fluid (c. $200), engine air filter (c. $75), and cabin air filter (c. $75). So that adds up to about $1050.

We have two Subaru dealers in Louisville, Huffman and Bachman, and we bought one Outback at each of them. Bachman's prices for service are higher, but they say they use synthetic oil direct from Subaru rather than from another source. Not surprisingly, having bought from both of them, Bachman and Huffman have quite an intense competition with each other, and they really don't like each other much.

oldfarmer50

xwesx said:

oldfarmer50 said:

We tell customers no smoking or a $200-250 cleaning charge. They ignore it. The big problem these days is smoke of a different nature which is even harder to get out.

That is true, and I would say that it is far more likely that I will get a pre-smoked rental than not. It is actually surprising to me, considering how relatively few folks still have that nasty habit. As for the different natured smoke, I haven't come across that one yet... but I'm sure I will!

When a car comes back particularly offensive it has to be decontaminated using a special chlorine based treatment and then aired out for a specific time. I find the odor of that worse than the smoke.

It funny how customers try to fool us when they have stunk up a car. When a vehicle comes back in winter with all the windows open it’s a dead giveaway away. Sometimes they spray cologne or body spray all over which makes for some real nauseating fragrances.

When I bought my truck in February it was really cold and I didn’t notice anything. A few days later it warmed up and I found that the previous owner was a smoker. Just awful. I shampooed the seats and bought a cheap little ozone machine. Took 4 treatments with the machine but I got the stink out.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

but if you want a fresh plan to think about, my latest scheme is let the wife have her Acura until she wants something else, trade the truck for a Prelude, and lease a cheap strippo model Chevy work truck PU if really cheap leases pop up (with a Frontier being an alternative, whatever comes cheapest!). That would be the winter beater, and park outside under the pine trees.

this is an update to the real plan of a nice used truck for beater duty, because unless I shop next time I am in Dallas for business, finding a clean older truck up here is next to impossible (and if one turns up, likely going to be very expensive).

I was looking at Frontiers a few years ago when I couldn’t find an old style Ranger. They were expensive back then but since then prices have exploded. This was about the cheapest I could find that didn’t have 200k miles on it.

https://elmira.craigslist.org/ctd/d/pine-valley-2015-nissan-frontier/7877428826.html

ab348

Another big Ford recall, this time for rear-view cameras on some 1.5 million older models:

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-recall-nearly-15-million-vehicles-us-over-faulty-rear-view-camera-nhtsa-2025-09-09/

Sept 9 (Reuters) - Ford (F.N) is recalling about 1.5 million vehicles in the United States due to a rear-view camera issue causing inverted, distorted, or blank image, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said on Tuesday.

The recall affects select vehicles from model years 2015 to 2019 of Lincoln MKC, Lincoln Navigator, Mustang, F-250, F-350, F-450, F-550, Expedition, Edge, Transit, Transit Connect, Econoline and Ranger, NHTSA said.

Ford dealers will inspect and replace vehicle cameras at no cost to owners, the U.S. auto safety regulator said.

Canadian auto parts supplier Magna International (MG.TO) is recalling more than 250,000 rearview cameras fitted in select Ford and Stellantis (STLAM.MI), opens new tab vehicles, the agency said in a separate notice.

tjc78

You all are going to have a field day with this... I haven't bought a set of tires since 2008 when my 2006 Avalon blew through it's absolutely horrible Bridgestone Turanza EL400s at 27K miles. It nearly killed me to have to replace tires on a lease.

kyfdx

Our best one was the 3yr/45K lease we had on a corp exec 2008 X3 that already had 10K on it. 55K miles and passed the tire inspection..

stickguy

2018 I think for me. The old RDX.

nyccarguy

benjaminh said:

It does seem like the the estimate of $1272 in maintenance for the first two years for an Outback is about right. The estimate by Edmunds is based on a high 15k miles a year of driving. Subaru's maintenance schedule calls for more frequent oil changes than most, at every six months or 6k miles.

So for the first 30,000 miles you'd need about six oil changes + tire rotations, which at Bachman Subaru's prices would be about $700. Looking at the Subaru service schedule the other things you'd need at 30k would be brake fluid (c. $200), engine air filter (c. $75), and cabin air filter (c. $75). So that adds up to about $1050.

We have two Subaru dealers in Louisville, Huffman and Bachman, and we bought one Outback at each of them. Bachman's prices for service are higher, but they say they use synthetic oil direct from Subaru rather than from another source. Not surprisingly, having bought from both of them, Bachman and Huffman have quite an intense competition with each other, and they really don't like each other much.

Not sure if it is in your car's owner's manual, but Subarus also have front and rear differential fluid that needs to be changed. IIRC @xwesx, our resident Subaru guru said to have a "drain & fill" service performed with 75W90 fully synthetic gear oil every 30Kish miles.

nyccarguy

@benjaminh

"Depreciation is a huge cost for most vehicles"

It is the single biggest cost of ownership, but is unrealized until you sell, trade, or donate your vehicle.

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

@benjaminh

"Depreciation is a huge cost for most vehicles"

It is the single biggest cost of ownership, but is unrealized until you sell, trade, or donate your vehicle.

Exactly.

I think our Outback was around $40K out the door, and, 10 years later, it's still worth probably $10K trade value. $3K per year isn't too bad of depreciation, but I'm sure it would have been sky high after year 1 or 2.

tifighter

Out walking today, I saw two cars that I’d like to drive.

stickguy

Blue one is cool

oldfarmer50

I got that notice years ago and took it to the dealer. I was told “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” and they basically refused to do the work. I just got another notice a few months ago. I was considering taking it to a closer dealer but I’m guessing if the dealer where I bought it doesn’t want to do it, no other dealer is going to be anxious for the work either. Especially since there’s a recall out for newer models too.

corvette

For shame, that blue car is parked outside the lines! Surely it will get booted?

explorerx4

45kph top speed would not appeal to many here.

roadburner

On another website forum a guy posted, "I’m in the market for a new car first time in 25 years however I don’t want a car that requires an engineering degree just to turn on the radio or air conditioning. Are there any newer cars that are low tech?"
I replied that I had found the perfect car for him:

imidazol97

I can see it has "air conditioning," but does it have radio?

oldfarmer50

imidazol97 said:

I can see it has "air conditioning," but does it have radio?

Not unless you want to get an engineering degree.🤣

explorerx4

My grandkid's battery cars have FM radio, bluetooth and a USB port.

tjc78

explorerx4 said:

My grandkid's battery cars have FM radio, bluetooth and a USB port.

Years ago before it was commonplace to use DeWalt/Milwaukee Lithium batteries to upgrade them, my cousin and I upgraded the battery in his daughter's little pink Escalade car. That little thing would spin the tires all day long if you let it. She loved it.

explorerx4

@tjc78,
A guy up the street has done that battery conversion on his grandkid's cars.
After seeing his grandkids drive them, I'm afraid to let my grandkids see that.

roadburner

tjc78 said:

explorerx4 said:

My grandkid's battery cars have FM radio, bluetooth and a USB port.

Years ago before it was commonplace to use DeWalt/Milwaukee Lithium batteries to upgrade them, my cousin and I upgraded the battery in his daughter's little pink Escalade car. That little thing would spin the tires all day long if you let it. She loved it.

A local auto parts store used to be a Power Wheels dealer. They built all manner of modified cars and Jeeps. The owner would let my son "test" a especially hotted up Corvette- he would do burnouts the length of their warehouse.

corvette

I like the new Prelude, especially the off-white/blue interior, although the cloth back seat looks like a cheap afterthought. The new Civic Hybrid has a great powertrain that dusts the Si in a straight line, it's only appropriate to put it in a sportier car. Unfortunately, I seriously doubt the seating position of the Prelude would agree with me.

qbrozen

@corvette said:
I'm having fun making a list of potential Ariya replacements. If lease deals dry up, I could just buy a used EV, PHEV, or a non-hybrid. Can't go wrong with an X3 //M, right?

You ever play war video games? You know, like Call of Duty? So, you know how you’ll think, “can’t go wrong with a hand grenade,” and then you hold it for just a little too long? That’s how I feel about boosted BMWs these days.

qbrozen

@tifighter said:
Out walking today, I saw two cars that I’d like to drive.

If I’m not mistaken, that blue one is a Chinese electric take on the Isetta. I’d rather drive an Isetta. 2cv has always been that “I would like to drive it but not own it” thing. Or maybe own it for a month.

corvette

qbrozen said:

You ever play war video games? You know, like Call of Duty? So, you know how you’ll think, “can’t go wrong with a hand grenade,” and then you hold it for just a little too long? That’s how I feel about boosted BMWs these days.

lol... My strategy there would be to pay whatever CarMax wants for one and get their warranty.

explorerx4

Cruised the lot at my local Ford dealer.
I haven't seen it that empty since covid.
They usually have over 300 vehicles in stock but currently list 147.

kyfdx

Recent sightings

kyfdx

au1994

Italy, I presume? I'd fit the Audi in my carry-on.

Sandman6472

Truthfully, I ain't worried. She makes more then the both of us combined and always pays her bills. We're lucky that all three kids followed our lead about living under one's means and all have no debt except their mortgage. They don't have many credit cards and are very smart with their money. So, am not worried in the slightest here about her using my Tires Plus c c if needed. Once we move up there, I'll be doing most of her vehicular needs anyways. Or at least go with her as I don't plan to work once we do relocate. Since I don't know the area, think I'll just go on a leave status with Enterprise at first. Think we'll be quite busy looking to buy a new house while taking care of her dog. Think it'll be nice to take some time off since I've worked these past 12 plus years in the rental car business plus those 31 years in the post office. Think I deserve some time off. Plus, it'll be fun to learn a whole new area of the state!

Sandman6472

Getting the GTI detailed later this morning. Guy is on the way over as I type this. Got his name from a few folks who say he does good work. With all the rain we've been having, it'll be nice to have a good coat of wax down as we go into our "winter"!

kyfdx

au1994 said:

Italy, I presume? I'd fit the Audi in my carry-on.

Yes.. just got back on Monday

nyccarguy

I've looked at a lot of cars in the $15K and under price point on and off over the last couple of years. What am I missing with this 2014 Toyota Avalon? I appreciate everyone's input. EDIT: I see 3 hits on the autocheck.

stickguy

Looks nice. But maybe my cheap-o-meter needs to be recalibrated but 12YO and 115k miles for 15 grand doesn’t seem cheap to me.

Michaell

stickguy said:

Looks nice. But maybe my cheap-o-meter needs to be recalibrated but 12YO and 115k miles for 15 grand doesn’t seem cheap to me.

It's apparent you haven't been shopping much, lately.

oldfarmer50

The dings all seem minor and could have been caused by the Avalon’s older demographic driver. $15k for that mileage seems high but I’ve learned we aren’t in Kansas any more. For comparison, my 2013 (same age at time of sale) truck was $14k last year but only had 30k miles.

I think dealers are offering more higher mileage cars than ever before because most people can’t afford to trade and are keeping all the decent running cars for themselves.

Maybe try private party.

https://cnj.craigslist.org/cto/d/metuchen-2013-toyota-avalon-limited/7875558726.html

imidazol97

Dealers and high mileage.
Used 1999 Civic at 300,000 miles. 2003 Pontiac at 250,000. EQuinox 2010 250,000 mi.
https://www.troutwineautosales.com/searchused.aspx

benjaminh

nyccarguy said:

I've looked at a lot of cars in the $15K and under price point on and off over the last couple of years. What am I missing with this 2014 Toyota Avalon? I appreciate everyone's input. EDIT: I see 3 hits on the autocheck.

Are you actually looking to buy a car for around that price? Or is it more for amusement?

Michaell

benjaminh said:

nyccarguy said:

I've looked at a lot of cars in the $15K and under price point on and off over the last couple of years. What am I missing with this 2014 Toyota Avalon? I appreciate everyone's input. EDIT: I see 3 hits on the autocheck.

Are you actually looking to buy a car for around that price? Or is it more for amusement?

I think he's still looking for a car for his oldest.

stickguy

I thought the Camry filled that hole.

Carvana continues to be weird. In the last 6 days (they email me updates) the offer on the RDX jumped $1,600. Plus would be more since they think it has 20k miles more than it does. This after a month or so ago when the maverick dropped almost $8,000 month over month. And has stayed down there. Such FOMO going on. Of course I could swing by Carmax if I really wanted to check it.

benjaminh

nyccarguy said:

I've looked at a lot of cars in the $15K and under price point on and off over the last couple of years. What am I missing with this 2014 Toyota Avalon? I appreciate everyone's input. EDIT: I see 3 hits on the autocheck.

After getting burned with some one-owner used cars with maintenance records in the 1990s, I've become an advocate of the reality that in the long-run buying new is often better if it can be afforded. Better not just in terms of time and nerves, but in terms of money. Let me see if I can try to show that in this case...

Edmunds Cost to Own charts only go back to 2019, but a 2019 Avalon is projected to have maintenance and repair costs of about $8,000 over the next five years. If Edmunds did have a chart for a 2014 Avalon the number would probably be at least $10k or so. A 2014 Avalon was rated at 25 mpg combined, and so if driven about 12k a year gas costs over 5 years at 3.50 a gal would be about $8500.

So maintenance/repairs/gas for a 2014 Avalon might be around $16,500 or so for the next five years.

A 2025 Camry LE is thought by Edmunds to have maintenance and repair costs of about $3500 for the next five years. It gets 51 mpg, and so gas costs would be about $4000.

Maintenance/repairs/gas for a 2025 Camry would be around $7500 for the next five years.

A new Camry LE costs about $14k more than that 2014 Avalon, but if you subtract the known savings of $9k from owning a new Camry, the difference in price is really only about $5k over 5 years.

And that $5k, from my pov, might even be wiped out by the resale value of the two cars in 2030? Not sure.

A 2014 Avalon will not have much resale value when it has 200k or so in the year 2030. Maybe $4k or so? Might lose 10k in value by then? Idk. Might even be getting close to going to the junkyard, in which case the owner of the car would need to start all over again on a costly new car search.

But a 2025 Camry LE according to Edmunds will probably be worth something like $19k. It will lose 11k in value, but with luck and maintenance will still be a car with at least five good years years of life left.

Just my 2 cents lol.

nyccarguy

benjaminh said:

nyccarguy said:

I've looked at a lot of cars in the $15K and under price point on and off over the last couple of years. What am I missing with this 2014 Toyota Avalon? I appreciate everyone's input. EDIT: I see 3 hits on the autocheck.

Are you actually looking to buy a car for around that price? Or is it more for amusement?

This is Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous! I am looking to buy a car for around that price for the board's amusement.

nyccarguy

Michaell said:

benjaminh said:

nyccarguy said:

I've looked at a lot of cars in the $15K and under price point on and off over the last couple of years. What am I missing with this 2014 Toyota Avalon? I appreciate everyone's input. EDIT: I see 3 hits on the autocheck.

Are you actually looking to buy a car for around that price? Or is it more for amusement?

I think he's still looking for a car for his oldest.

My middle son has had his permit since May. He's progressing nicely. We are going to sign him up for driver's ed. 28 hours "virtual" instruction and 8 hours of in car driving instruction. Once he's done with that and he passes his road test we are going to need another car. He's going to have hockey practice after school as well as some practices before school.

My oldest, soon to be 19 (in less than 2 weeks) will need a car to drive for the summer.

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

I thought the Camry filled that hole.

Carvana continues to be weird. In the last 6 days (they email me updates) the offer on the RDX jumped $1,600. Plus would be more since they think it has 20k miles more than it does. This after a month or so ago when the maverick dropped almost $8,000 month over month. And has stayed down there. Such FOMO going on. Of course I could swing by Carmax if I really wanted to check it.

My wife drives the Camry. It is either just her or her and 1 of the kids most days. She really likes the car. I do too. I filled it up last night with less than 10 gallons of gas. I hand calculated 42.7 mpg.

nyccarguy

oldfarmer50 said:

The dings all seem minor and could have been caused by the Avalon’s older demographic driver. $15k for that mileage seems high but I’ve learned we aren’t in Kansas any more. For comparison, my 2013 (same age at time of sale) truck was $14k last year but only had 30k miles.

I think dealers are offering more higher mileage cars than ever before because most people can’t afford to trade and are keeping all the decent running cars for themselves.

Maybe try private party.

https://cnj.craigslist.org/cto/d/metuchen-2013-toyota-avalon-limited/7875558726.html

That's a nice one @oldfarmer50 . Let me do a little more research into it and see what's out there on CarGurus and compare it to the CarMax one I stumbled upon.