Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

Michaell

jmonroe1 said:

@Michaell said:

My sister and BIL took their first road trip in the i5 today. Drove from their house NE of San Diego to a hotel on the beach of our hometown (about 60 miles NW of LA), a total distance of about 185 miles.

Car was 100% charged when they left, showing 305 miles of range. When they arrived, it had 38% charge remaining.

They got 1000 free charging hours from BMW with the lease, so they've identified an Electrify America charging station not far from the hotel. They figure an hour to get recharged, then another straight shot home.

Yes, refilling a gas tank would take 5-10 minutes, but the charging station is at an outdoor mall, so they can wander and shop while they wait.

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I believe you said you’re from Oxnard CA.

When I was a working stiff we dealt with a company in Oxnard (late 80s) and when I went there, many times, I always stayed at a place on the beach too. It was the Embassy Suites. And IIRC the place was also known as the Mandalay Beach Resort Hotel. Very nice place. Even took Mrs. j there once while I was on a business trip there for a week. She really liked that place too.

jmonroe

Yep, that's where they stayed. It's gone through an ownership and name change, but same buildings.

Funny, I was still living there in the late 80's (didn't move to Denver until 1993).

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

I wonder how crazy the bidding on this will get
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1996-toyota-hilux-6/

That’s going to a home where the owner will use it to impress his buddies at cars & coffee. With less mileage and gas powered that might be something that would appeal to me. I’d hate to try and find parts for a 20 year old diesel.

roadburner

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:

I think this may be the first year in a long time I haven’t bought a car/truck. Although I do plan on visiting the leasing boards before the year is out.

I also spotted this deal. If what they say is true, seems like a pretty good buy for someone looking to drive it long-term. It is priced about 25% off a clean history version. https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/link/431870894

I assume from the AMG moniker that this is a high performance vehicle. Do you ever worry about buying such cars considering the previous owner may have raced or abused it?

Nope.

explorerx4

If you are more partial to a Tacoma.
https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/4TAVN13DXRZ254900?utm_source=rtbh&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=rtg&partner=DUL_L&rtbhc=220qXZE2by51AUPFVBcDtkHQvcr6AQc15-qNaiuJDgo.4TAVN13DXRZ254900.1766334601071.0.B0bzQ4favzautaPPnLDv&is_retargeting=true&pid=rtbhouse_int&af_sub1=retargeting&c=rtbhouse-retargeting-web&af_click_lookback=2d&af_reengagement_window=2d

benjaminh

Nightmare experiences for "Engineering Explained" with his new 2025 Lucid. Yikes.

stickguy

ambitious pricing. Same as a brand new one. Though the old one is likely more reliable. And way cooler.

suydam

We’ve made the trip from Santa Barbara county to north San Diego county several times now. It’s easy to get there on one charge and there are several malls in the area with EA or EVGo charging stations. I feel pretty comfortable driving distances like that most anywhere now.

stickguy

I need to revisit the EV options too before we buy. I like the idea, and for this car it could be a perfect use case. Just not sure there is something my wife will like, and I do need to have her try out one behind the wheel.

Michaell

stickguy said:

I need to revisit the EV options too before we buy. I like the idea, and for this car it could be a perfect use case. Just not sure there is something my wife will like, and I do need to have her try out one behind the wheel.

If you go EV, you should lease. I still believe there are lots of technology advancements that will be rolled out over the next few years which may render existing BEVs obsolete. I know my sister and BIL love their i5.

xwesx

Coldest day of the year! That’s about -45F.

My car decided that today is a good morning to not blow warm air into the cabin, too. BRRR!!!!

imidazol97

Those cold temp readings make me nervous.

cdnpinhead

Memories of the early '70s for me. I didn't mind it then, even took pride in surviving, but now in my late '70s, I think I'm over it. Either way, hang in there.

benjaminh

stickguy said:

I need to revisit the EV options too before we buy. I like the idea, and for this car it could be a perfect use case. Just not sure there is something my wife will like, and I do need to have her try out one behind the wheel.

An EV might be a good choice. Although since you tend to drive your vehicles only 6k miles or so a year the gas savings would be limited.

If you can find a bargain EV lease that's a good way to go, but now that the $7500 federal credit is gone great lease rates are more difficult to find. But a few factories are still making EVs that have to be sold somehow, and so deals might still be around.

As we know, already some EVs have been phased out, including the Nissan Ariya, Honda Prologue, etc. I wonder if other EVs will also go into the sunset early, such as the 2026 Subaru Trailseeker EV coming out in a couple of months. I wonder if there will still be a 2028 Trailseeker sold in the US?

Probably good deals are available on CPO EVs.

The Chevy Blazer EV has special incentives right now for Costco members—0% financing for 60 months + a $1250 rebate on top of all regular incentives. The lowest cost Blazer EVs are in the low 40s after rebates, but I think those are FWD.

stickguy

If I was getting an EV it would definitely be a lease. Not planning to get the new family car that way, but it is certainly an option depending on the deals available. Probably saving the lease for my snow beater/salt car so I can just give that back after 3 winters!

corvette

I’d consider giving the Ariya the safari treatment, but that would undoubtedly reduce its cruising range. Not sure how far I drove, but got back home with 12% battery remaining. Wet gravel at the wildlife refuge. Didn’t see much wildlife, but it was nice to hike there with almost nobody around. Same story where I hiked yesterday.

qbrozen

@benjaminh said:
An EV might be a good choice. Although since you tend to drive your vehicles only 6k miles or so a year the gas savings would be limited.

If you can find a bargain EV lease that's a good way to go, but now that the $7500 federal credit is gone great lease rates are more difficult to find. But a few factories are still making EVs that have to be sold somehow, and so deals might still be around.

As we know, already some EVs have been phased out, including the Nissan Ariya, Honda Prologue, etc. I wonder if other EVs will also go into the sunset early, such as the 2026 Subaru Trailseeker EV coming out in a couple of months. I wonder if there will still be a 2028 Trailseeker sold in the US?

Probably good deals are available on CPO EVs.

The Chevy Blazer EV has special incentives right now for Costco members—0% financing for 60 months + a $1250 rebate on top of all regular incentives. The lowest cost Blazer EVs are in the low 40s after rebates, but I think those are FWD.

There is a dealer on my Facebook feed who keeps advertising new Chevy EVs for $15k off and 0%. Says that brings it to $30k. That tempts even me. Over 300 miles of range. Hmmm.

suydam

In 2024 I bought a fully loaded Blazer EV for just under $40k. There were all kinds of incentives, including the Costco coupon. And I got a really good trade in price for my 2017 Volt that brought the total much lower. I like the 2024 MY because the LT was just as loaded as the RS for some reason but cost a lot less. The only thing it doesn’t have is the heads up display which my spouse dislikes anyway.
I think Kia has really good incentives now too.

28firefighter

Great catching up with @tifighter for Lake Washington Cars and Coffee!

jmonroe1

@xwesx said:
Coldest day of the year! That’s about -45F.

My car decided that today is a good morning to not blow warm air into the cabin, too. BRRR!!!!

————————————————
That’s more than about the time I’d move.

jmonroe

benjaminh

From what I've read only Tesla is making any profits from selling EVs, and then only on the Model 3 and Model Y because of economies of scale. Tesla sold over 350,000 Model Ys in the US alone in 2024.

The recently canceled F-150 Lightning will sell less than 30,000 this year, and Ford apparently lost around $100,000 on average on each of its EVs when all is said and done.

Lucid has lost a stunning $300,000+ on average on its EVs.

I haven't seen similar figures for GM, but as a guess the real cost of a Blazer EV would be maybe $80k+ or so, but around $35k-55k is probably about all they can sell for.

Right now some who have invested billions in EVs are continuing selling them so as not to waste that huge amount of money with nothing to show for it. But it seems at some point GM and others are likely to try to price them closer to costs, at which point sales probably will collapse.

So...in 2-3 years is it possible that Tesla will again be the only major EV player in the US? I wonder...

corvette

@benjaminh - a possible middle ground is a focus on plug-in hybrids. If batteries continue to be very expensive and aren't subsidized, it's still feasible to make a PHEV with 50+ miles of EV range versus a full EV, where most people reasonably expect 200+ miles of EV range.

suydam

Actually sales are not collapsing in the US. They are down somewhat this year due to federal policy and uncertainty. In the rest of the world they are increasing. If GM and Ford want to be global players, they will have to make and sell EVS. Otherwise they will cede the global market to the Chinese, and sell their gas only vehicles in the US. I don’t think they want to do that.

benjaminh

Sales of EVs grew by leaps and bounds for several years. I kind-of agreed with the subsidies and mandates that helped that happen. But now that the subsidies and mandates are gone in the US, sales might fall in 2026. All I was suggesting was that if GM and others try to move msrps closer to true costs EV sales in the US sales might collapse. Time will tell.

I myself am interested in the Subaru Trailseeker EV wagon. It seems like it should probably be c.$80k performance wagon, but if I can get one for $40k maybe I'll consider it (if I can convince my wife). Might at least be worth a test drive at my local dealer. If it does get phased out in a year or two, I don't know if it would be a good or bad thing to have a rare electric car that's sort-of an orphan.

"U.S. EV Sales Are On Track For Their First Year-Over-Year Drop Since 2019
Electric car sales are projected to fall in the U.S. 2025 after years of upward growth. Here's what happened.
By: Tim Levin, Dec 20

https://insideevs.com/news/782405/ev-sales-drop-2025-tax-credit-trump/

stickguy

I will take that cost per unit/losing money analysis with a grain of salt, since it must include sunk development costs. At this point, what does it really cost to make new units since the technology and plants are in place?

Plug ins are a nice alternative. For people that can plug in at home, and primarily drive locally, it really works as an EV with a range extender most of the time, but unlike a true EV REX is perfectly capable of being used as a normal ICE car.

benjaminh

stickguy said:

I will take that cost per unit/losing money analysis with a grain of salt, since it must include sunk development costs. At this point, what does it really cost to make new units since the technology and plants are in place?

Agreed, but even considering that it wasn't worth it for Ford to continue with the F-150 Lightning. Ford's write-down/loss of over $19 billion on EVs seems meaningful in terms of what the economics for EVs are in general in the US.

https://electrek.co/2025/12/02/fords-ev-sales-plunge-60-f-150-lightning-still-on-hold/

"Ford’s EV sales plunge 60% in November...
Peter Johnson, Dec 2 2025

Ford’s EV sales fell by 60% in November from the year prior, following the loss of the $7,500 federal tax credit....Sales of the Mustang Mach-E fell 49% to 3,014 units, and the F-150 Lightning saw an even sharper drop with only 1,006 sold, down 72% from a year ago. Ford’s electric van, the E-Transit...fell 82% to just 227 units."

qbrozen

Phew! That diesel Toyota broke $10k, so I don’t have to bid on it. ;b

ab348

When you (as an industry) cannot rely on public policy goals and tax incentives that required major corporate capital investment to satisfy, that only last for a few years before pivoting, those big writedowns are the result. They fall entirely at the feet of govts. The industry just did what govts wanted them do do and now are paying the price.

The flipside is that up here and maybe in the US too, there are individuals saying that we should open up to the sale of super-cheap Chinese EVs here instead. Of course they would in short order destroy much of the domestic auto industry and allow what's left to fall into their hands. Many people cannot see beyond the end of their noses.

qbrozen

I’m sorely tempted to grab this just for the deal it represents. I’ll have another driver in the house in 1 year, as well.

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/16LHmi5bMQ/?mibextid=wwXIfr

xwesx

Seems like a good plan. Sadly, cannot see the ad.

andres3

breld said:

Wife and I took the 911 and Cayman in for routine oil changes today.

Total bill for the two…$740.

Good news is they didn’t find anything else that needed addressing.

So does it take longer labor times to change the oil in a Porsche, or is that OEM oil $100$50/qt?

andres3

suydam said:

We’ve made the trip from Santa Barbara county to north San Diego county several times now. It’s easy to get there on one charge and there are several malls in the area with EA or EVGo charging stations. I feel pretty comfortable driving distances like that most anywhere now.

But are you going 80-85 in the passing lane or sticking to 65-75 in the right lane?

andres3

xwesx said:

Honestly, if people are going to be that paranoid and insecure when using a vehicle, it is probably best if they just... don't. It must be a real eye-opener to realize that life comes with risk.

And, it is hard to feel sorry for someone who has only one vehicle when that one vehicle is a new Wrangler. We all make our choices!

Maybe they missed all the memos about Chrysler/Jeep reliability?

andres3

Michaell said:

My sister and BIL took their first road trip in the i5 today. Drove from their house NE of San Diego to a hotel on the beach of our hometown (about 60 miles NW of LA), a total distance of about 185 miles.

Car was 100% charged when they left, showing 305 miles of range. When they arrived, it had 38% charge remaining.

They got 1000 free charging hours from BMW with the lease, so they've identified an Electrify America charging station not far from the hotel. They figure an hour to get recharged, then another straight shot home.

Yes, refilling a gas tank would take 5-10 minutes, but the charging station is at an outdoor mall, so they can wander and shop while they wait.

This is a true story but not jumping on the @driver100 bandwagon against EV's.

Holiday dinner party with the company I now work for, where they have a bigger hub in LA so it was in Downtown LA. Anyway, the dinner ended around 9 PM and everyone is using the parking garages valet to leave (the dinner included validation for the parking/valet).

As were leaving, we see a guy at a charging station in the garage standing around, and we ask him what's up. He says he was near empty and needed to charge up before heading home. Now I don't think he was as far as San Diego, but many places in and around LA could be easily be an hour drive away even at night.

Poor planning? Probably, but I would think easy to forget and have a lapse that is costing you precious time. I know I often forget to fill up with gas but it's just a 5 minute inconvenience.

greg128

benjaminh said:

From what I've read only Tesla is making any profits from selling EVs, and then only on the Model 3 and Model Y because of economies of scale. Tesla sold over 350,000 Model Ys in the US alone in 2024.

The recently canceled F-150 Lightning will sell less than 30,000 this year, and Ford apparently lost around $100,000 on average on each of its EVs when all is said and done.

Lucid has lost a stunning $300,000+ on average on its EVs.

I haven't seen similar figures for GM, but as a guess the real cost of a Blazer EV would be maybe $80k+ or so, but around $35k-55k is probably about all they can sell for.

Right now some who have invested billions in EVs are continuing selling them so as not to waste that huge amount of money with nothing to show for it. But it seems at some point GM and others are likely to try to price them closer to costs, at which point sales probably will collapse.

So...in 2-3 years is it possible that Tesla will again be the only major EV player in the US? I wonder...

GM took a $1.6B hit in Oct 2025 for their losses on their EVs.. They sold a total of around 300,000 of them in 2024 and thus far in 2025. That comes to about a $5,300 loss for each one sold.

In spite of that their net income in 2024 was about $6B and expected to grow to $8B in 2025

stickguy

companies do need to make investments to build for the future too. So they don't always make a profit on a new product right away, taking into account building out the infrastructure and developing the technology. Not sure they are abandoning EVs entirely, as opposed to making account balance sheet adjustments to reflect missing revenue targets.

and yes, sometimes they invest in something that ends up bombing on them. Risk you take to not be left behind.

explorerx4

Ford, maybe last week, stopped production of the Escape and Lincoln Corsair to shut down the Louisville factory to retool to make a mid size electric pickup truck.

oldfarmer50

xwesx said:

Coldest day of the year! That’s about -45F.

My car decided that today is a good morning to not blow warm air into the cabin, too. BRRR!!!!

That’s even colder in American.😱

oldfarmer50

corvette said:

I’d consider giving the Ariya the safari treatment, but that would undoubtedly reduce its cruising range. Not sure how far I drove, but got back home with 12% battery remaining. Wet gravel at the wildlife refuge. Didn’t see much wildlife, but it was nice to hike there with almost nobody around. Same story where I hiked yesterday.

I love that custom color on that vehicle. What do you call it…..upstate NY salt?

andres3

greg128 said:

benjaminh said:

From what I've read only Tesla is making any profits from selling EVs, and then only on the Model 3 and Model Y because of economies of scale. Tesla sold over 350,000 Model Ys in the US alone in 2024.

The recently canceled F-150 Lightning will sell less than 30,000 this year, and Ford apparently lost around $100,000 on average on each of its EVs when all is said and done.

Lucid has lost a stunning $300,000+ on average on its EVs.

I haven't seen similar figures for GM, but as a guess the real cost of a Blazer EV would be maybe $80k+ or so, but around $35k-55k is probably about all they can sell for.

Right now some who have invested billions in EVs are continuing selling them so as not to waste that huge amount of money with nothing to show for it. But it seems at some point GM and others are likely to try to price them closer to costs, at which point sales probably will collapse.

So...in 2-3 years is it possible that Tesla will again be the only major EV player in the US? I wonder...

GM took a $1.6B hit in Oct 2025 for their losses on their EVs.. They sold a total of around 300,000 of them in 2024 and thus far in 2025. That comes to about a $5,300 loss for each one sold.

In spite of that their net income in 2024 was about $6B and expected to grow to $8B in 2025

I think GM should send that loss as a bill to the CEO of Government Motors, which is two Presidents. No reason for a private company to experience losses when taxpayers can better handle that burden. The private side of GM should be able to enjoy their profits without the offsetting losses.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

I’m sorely tempted to grab this just for the deal it represents. I’ll have another driver in the house in 1 year, as well.

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/16LHmi5bMQ/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Members only.

qbrozen

Dang it. OK, how bout this?

stickguy

has the engine on the Kia been replaced yet? Even so, at those miles an age, under $2k for a good runner is dirt cheap these days.

nyccarguy

@breld

How much oil does each Porsche take? I remember when my Mom had the Cayennes, they took 10 quarts of whatever Mobil 1 was spec’d by Porsche. I’d think Porsche takes engine lubrication very seriously.

xwesx

Ugh; no! Those are such awful cars. So awful. I guess passable as a starter car, but I'd honestly take ANYTHING of the era over that one. I had one, one time, as a loaner while my car was in for a recall; it was such a tin can. Awful.

jmonroe1

@qbrozen said:
Dang it. OK, how bout this?
>

————————————————
I don’t know if that is a good price or not but I do know that’s the worst written car add I’ve ever seen.

jmonroe

jmonroe1

@nyccarguy said:
@breld

How much oil does each Porsche take? I remember when my Mom had the Cayennes, they took 10 quarts of whatever Mobil 1 was spec’d by Porsche. I’d think Porsche takes engine lubrication very seriously.

————————————————
And Porsche has some very serious pricing too. I guess if you can’t afford the time don’t do the crime.

jmonroe

qbrozen

@jmonroe1 said:

@qbrozen said:
Dang it. OK, how bout this?
>

————————————————
I don’t know if that is a good price or not but I do know that’s the worst written car add I’ve ever seen.

jmonroe

Heck, that isn’t bad at all compared to 50% of my feed of ads that are either Spanish or Gen Z (not sure if that’s an official language but it should be).

kyfdx

Kia Rio = Dodge Neon

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

Dang it. OK, how bout this?

Great price and mileage. Nice winter beater. Were Kia engines problematic that year? There was initially a period when they were noted for failure and then a period where they were relatively dependable before becoming ticking time bombs again.

roadburner

The British magazine CAR use to have a section in the back of the magazine called Good, Bad and Ugly (GBU). GBU would give the pros and cons of each car as well as recommendations for other cars in that market segment (Also Consider). That Kia reminds me of a GBU entry on a bottom feeder Mitsubishi; under Also Consider the suggestion was "Walking."
Also, I'm also extremely wary of any seller that doesn't know the difference between "breaks" and "brakes."