Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

sda

Michaell said:

RIP Jean Jennings (aka Lindamood) - former writer and editor at both C&D and Automobile magazine.

Gone too soon at the age of 70.

That is really sad. I always enjoyed her articles, grittiness, and humor. And her hats!

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

Today I emailed my staff and told them that, while I appreciated the thought, I neither wanted or expected any retirement presents and I repeated that I did not want a retirement party. I did promise to reward anyone who ratted out anyone attempting to organize anything along that line.

I hope that works.

Great! Now what am I going to do with this gold watch? 😂

With my last boss before I retired there was a rumor that the office threw a party AFTER he left. I believe that story.

nyccarguy

corvette said:

We had our office holiday lunch today. Catered by the local Cuban place where I frequently spend my evenings. The two people they sent were great--didn't recognize the lady, but the guy is a server there, and he pointed me out and said, "this guy knows what's up, but for everyone else, I'll tell you what these dishes are..."

We don't do a holiday "party" that involves closing the office early in December because it's our busy season and we need to be reasonably staffed, but it's on the books for next month. Laser tag was more fun than I thought it would be!

In my past life when I worked in advertising, one year the agency I worked for had their holiday party at The Rainbow Room in NYC. I didn't have a girlfriend at the time and couldn't pass up the opportunity to bring a plus one, so I brought my sister.

roadburner

@Michaell said:
RIP Jean Jennings (aka Lindamood) - former writer and editor at both C&D and Automobile magazine.

Gone too soon at the age of 70.

I ran into her at the 1989 Frankfurt Auto Show. It was my first ever press assignment and I was too intimidated to introduce myself. She was always one of my favorite writers from that era- a time when writers didn’t simply regurgitate the press handouts.

tifighter

Buckle up-

corvette

Honda’s about to FAFO.

oldfarmer50

tifighter said:

Buckle up-

Wow, talk about questionable moves. On the other hand if Nissan was provided with Honda’s superior CVT it might resurrect the brand.

tifighter

Another take-

I do think the rise of Chinese exports is the primary driver for this discussion.

nyccarguy

For $5K I don’t hate it:

https://www.prestigetoyota.com/used/Subaru/2012-Subaru-Forester-ramsey+nj-73b36608ac18309bbe1673d3c869d8c3.htm

stickguy

cheap by today's standards. Looks very clean so it was either well taken care of, or they have one heck of a detail department. Only the miles are scary. Also, I would want to see underneath since in the salt belt the subframes on those will rot out.

But dang, when did NJ dealers jack up the doc fees to $899? They think they are in Florida? Once plus to NY. Doc fees (I think, OF would know!) are still capped at a reasonable figure.

if it passes a PPI, could be a good value for a college car if not intended to get a lot of miles on it. Just budget for the Subaru basics (timing belt, head gaskets, while you are in there) so what is that at an Indy, about $3k? more? At least it doesn't have a CVT!

oldfarmer50

nyccarguy said:

For $5K I don’t hate it:

https://www.prestigetoyota.com/used/Subaru/2012-Subaru-Forester-ramsey+nj-73b36608ac18309bbe1673d3c869d8c3.htm

Just a few years ago you would never see any car on a dealer’s lot with 150k+ miles. I know cars can go longer distances today and the kind of miles highway/city makes a difference but I would wonder.

xwesx

Well, let's see. It has the four-speed automatic, which is a GREAT transmission, and it had the fluid changed in the past (55,000 miles ago, but, still.... it was done!), so it should be reliable.

I didn't see anything in the service history that notes differential fluid change, so that definitely needs doing. The rear bumper is looking its age, but, just looking its age, so probably not a big deal (I much prefer the rear entry cover for the bumper, as these cars absolutely need it). The interior looks great, plus an aftermarket head unit, so that's a big plus (the stock units are so bad on the 2012/2013 cars!).

The 2012 cars were the first year of the FB engine, which means you're unlikely to have head gasket issues, but they did have an oil consumption issue with some of the short blocks through mid-2013. So, I'd take it for a good long test drive (like, if you can get two-three hours with it and just drive the snot out of it on the steepest roads you can find that whole time), check the oil level before you leave, and then again when you get back, and see if it has changed at all. If yes, then maybe no, no? On mine, if I drove mountainous terrain at high RPM, it could suck upwards of a quart of oil in one tank of fuel. I had my short block replaced during a settlement warranty period in 2018, and no problems since then.

Agreed on a PPI. This could be a solid buy. Oh, and tires.... They seem to avoid taking closeups of the tires, so check the tread and date codes. Maybe you can work out something to get a new set if needed.

kyfdx

nyccarguy said:

For $5K I don’t hate it:

https://www.prestigetoyota.com/used/Subaru/2012-Subaru-Forester-ramsey+nj-73b36608ac18309bbe1673d3c869d8c3.htm

About three years ago, my son bought the same year Forester, with a stick-shift and about 30K less miles for around $6600.

It didn't end well.

nyccarguy

@stickguy said:
cheap by today's standards. Looks very clean so it was either well taken care of, or they have one heck of a detail department. Only the miles are scary. Also, I would want to see underneath since in the salt belt the subframes on those will rot out.

But dang, when did NJ dealers jack up the doc fees to $899? They think they are in Florida? Once plus to NY. Doc fees (I think, OF would know!) are still capped at a reasonable figure.

if it passes a PPI, could be a good value for a college car if not intended to get a lot of miles on it. Just budget for the Subaru basics (timing belt, head gaskets, while you are in there) so what is that at an Indy, about $3k? more? At least it doesn't have a CVT!

NJ & CT dealers have definitely jacked up their doc fees in the last 2 years or so. My local Toyota dealer raised theirs from $599 to $899. There is another Toyota dealer not too far up the Merritt that charges a $999 doc fee.

Still capped in NY at $175. I think that’s so the dealers in Queens & Brooklyn don’t advertise cars for $29 per month with a $17,542 doc fee plus tax, tags, & DMV fee due at signing.

stickguy

last car I bought from a NJ dealer was in early 2020. Not sure, but I think the doc fee might have been in the $399 range? The 2 since then were both from a dealer in PA. Zero clue what it was there but I don't recall it being too awful

tifighter

Chapter 2 - how low will it go?

fintail

corvette said:

Honda’s about to FAFO.

Could end up as a 21st century Daimler-Chrysler equivalent

fintail

Michaell said:

RIP Jean Jennings (aka Lindamood) - former writer and editor at both C&D and Automobile magazine.

Gone too soon at the age of 70.

I remember reading her material when I was a kid - too young indeed. She was a trailblazer.

nyccarguy

@kyfdx said:
About three years ago, my son bought the same year Forester, with a stick-shift and about 30K less miles for around $6600.

It didn't end well.

What happened?

oldfarmer50

nyccarguy said:

@stickguy said:

cheap by today's standards. Looks very clean so it was either well taken care of, or they have one heck of a detail department. Only the miles are scary. Also, I would want to see underneath since in the salt belt the subframes on those will rot out.

But dang, when did NJ dealers jack up the doc fees to $899? They think they are in Florida? Once plus to NY. Doc fees (I think, OF would know!) are still capped at a reasonable figure.

if it passes a PPI, could be a good value for a college car if not intended to get a lot of miles on it. Just budget for the Subaru basics (timing belt, head gaskets, while you are in there) so what is that at an Indy, about $3k? more? At least it doesn't have a CVT!

NJ & CT dealers have definitely jacked up their doc fees in the last 2 years or so. My local Toyota dealer raised theirs from $599 to $899. There is another Toyota dealer not too far up the Merritt that charges a $999 doc fee.

Still capped in NY at $175. I think that’s so the dealers in Queens & Brooklyn don’t advertise cars for $29 per month with a $17,542 doc fee plus tax, tags, & DMV fee due at signing.

Yes, $175 in NY. Paid that in 2024 after paying only $75 in 2019.

You mention the dealers in Queens and Brooklyn. Are you suggesting that the dealers in upstate couldn’t be every bit as crooked as those in the city?😂😂

kyfdx

nyccarguy said:

@kyfdx said:

About three years ago, my son bought the same year Forester, with a stick-shift and about 30K less miles for around $6600.

It didn't end well.

What happened?

Bought from a used car lot. Needed about $800 to get everything right. Not too bad. But, it leaked/burned oil badly over the next year. My mechanic looked it over the last time and said: "You should trade this in. I'm not going to tell you what it needs, so you won't have to lie about it".

My son traded it in for a new Mazda CX-30 for his wife, and now drives her 2014 Impreza. IIRC, we got $4500 in trade. So, from a financial standpoint, we skated.

corvette

fintail said:

Could end up as a 21st century Daimler-Chrysler equivalent

I don't think even the fanciest PR people can spin this one as a "merger of equals," though. This is more like a kid bringing home an extremely objectionable significant other to meet the parents.

kyfdx

They tried to jail Ghosn for screwing up Nissan. My guess is the Japan government wanted to make sure this didn't end up with Renault or some other non-Japanese company. I doubt Honda just decided that this was a good idea, all on their own. Probably have some government guarantees backing them up.

If you haven't read about Ghosn fleeing Japan, it is unreal.

nyccarguy

oldfarmer50 said:

nyccarguy said:

@stickguy said:

cheap by today's standards. Looks very clean so it was either well taken care of, or they have one heck of a detail department. Only the miles are scary. Also, I would want to see underneath since in the salt belt the subframes on those will rot out.

But dang, when did NJ dealers jack up the doc fees to $899? They think they are in Florida? Once plus to NY. Doc fees (I think, OF would know!) are still capped at a reasonable figure.

if it passes a PPI, could be a good value for a college car if not intended to get a lot of miles on it. Just budget for the Subaru basics (timing belt, head gaskets, while you are in there) so what is that at an Indy, about $3k? more? At least it doesn't have a CVT!

NJ & CT dealers have definitely jacked up their doc fees in the last 2 years or so. My local Toyota dealer raised theirs from $599 to $899. There is another Toyota dealer not too far up the Merritt that charges a $999 doc fee.

Still capped in NY at $175. I think that’s so the dealers in Queens & Brooklyn don’t advertise cars for $29 per month with a $17,542 doc fee plus tax, tags, & DMV fee due at signing.

Yes, $175 in NY. Paid that in 2024 after paying only $75 in 2019.

You mention the dealers in Queens and Brooklyn. Are you suggesting that the dealers in upstate couldn’t be every bit as crooked as those in the city?😂😂

No. I'm just merely suggesting that the dealers within the 5 boroughs wrote the book on crooked.

explorerx4

I see there is a Stop Sale on pre 25 Mavericks for a backup camera issues.

xwesx

explorerx4 said:

I see there is a Stop Sale on pre 25 Mavericks for a backup camera issues.

Oh, god.... no! Say it isn't so! How will I possibly drive a car without a backup camera?!

mjfloyd1

@explorerx4 said:
I see there is a Stop Sale on pre 25 Mavericks for a backup camera issues.

They may need a new wire🤣

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

I see there is a Stop Sale on pre 25 Mavericks for a backup camera issues.

They’ve been doing recalls on BUCs at least since 2015. You would think they could get it right by now.

jmonroe1

nyccarguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

nyccarguy said:

@stickguy said:

cheap by today's standards. Looks very clean so it was either well taken care of, or they have one heck of a detail department. Only the miles are scary. Also, I would want to see underneath since in the salt belt the subframes on those will rot out.

But dang, when did NJ dealers jack up the doc fees to $899? They think they are in Florida? Once plus to NY. Doc fees (I think, OF would know!) are still capped at a reasonable figure.

if it passes a PPI, could be a good value for a college car if not intended to get a lot of miles on it. Just budget for the Subaru basics (timing belt, head gaskets, while you are in there) so what is that at an Indy, about $3k? more? At least it doesn't have a CVT!

NJ & CT dealers have definitely jacked up their doc fees in the last 2 years or so. My local Toyota dealer raised theirs from $599 to $899. There is another Toyota dealer not too far up the Merritt that charges a $999 doc fee.

Still capped in NY at $175. I think that’s so the dealers in Queens & Brooklyn don’t advertise cars for $29 per month with a $17,542 doc fee plus tax, tags, & DMV fee due at signing.

Yes, $175 in NY. Paid that in 2024 after paying only $75 in 2019.

You mention the dealers in Queens and Brooklyn. Are you suggesting that the dealers in upstate couldn’t be every bit as crooked as those in the city?😂😂

No. I'm just merely suggesting that the dealers within the 5 boroughs wrote the book on crooked.

————————————————
And the dealers in south Florida revised it.

jmonroe

Sandman6472

The a/c was blowing warm air when I left Publix around 11. Called my mechanic and am supposed to drop it off later today. But, funny thing, just had to run an errand and it's blowing cold again! Crazy really. Canceled the appointment until after the holidays when I'll have him check out the system and do the coolant service also. Listened to that video from the VW dealer again and it said the front brakes "are like half worn at 5 mm" and should be done...in time. Think the diluted coolant is the more pressing issue to deal with right now. It's always something!!!

kyfdx

Half worn? Sounds like you have a couple years left on the brakes

xwesx

Sandman6472 said:

The a/c was blowing warm air when I left Publix around 11. Called my mechanic and am supposed to drop it off later today. But, funny thing, just had to run an errand and it's blowing cold again! Crazy really. Canceled the appointment until after the holidays when I'll have him check out the system and do the coolant service also. Listened to that video from the VW dealer again and it said the front brakes "are like half worn at 5 mm" and should be done...in time. Think the diluted coolant is the more pressing issue to deal with right now. It's always something!!!

It is a VW, so it could be a myriad of things, but my son's Subaru had a bad clutch on the AC compressor when he bought it. This made it so that, upon startup, the AC tended to work really well for a time, but because the compressor was running non-stop, the condenser would ice up and then stop working until he shut the car off and gave the it time to thaw out.

A replacement clutch cost him about $50 and took maybe thirty minutes to install.

Anyhow, the moral of the story is that if your AC isn't working every time you use it, the problem didn't mysteriously go away. Keep your appointment.

Sandman6472

First issue I've had in ten years. Think I'll just monitor it until after the holidays then bring it in. Can get both things done at that time. But will definitely keep a close eye on it all. The brakes can probably wait a bit longer.

au1994

kyfdx said:

They tried to jail Ghosn for screwing up Nissan. My guess is the Japan government wanted to make sure this didn't end up with Renault or some other non-Japanese company. I doubt Honda just decided that this was a good idea, all on their own. Probably have some government guarantees backing them up.

If you haven't read about Ghosn fleeing Japan, it is unreal.

It involved a middle of the night flight with some cargo not on the manifest if I recall.

au1994

I met a gentleman at the bar at the lake a few weeks back. He was on his second Wagoneer. The first was lemon lawed for electric gremlins. The second has had the entire interior removed twice trying to trace another one. 🤦

I love those things, but I don’t think the Yukon/Tahoe have much to worry about at this point.

oldfarmer50

Sandman6472 said:

The a/c was blowing warm air when I left Publix around 11. Called my mechanic and am supposed to drop it off later today. But, funny thing, just had to run an errand and it's blowing cold again! Crazy really. Canceled the appointment until after the holidays when I'll have him check out the system and do the coolant service also. Listened to that video from the VW dealer again and it said the front brakes "are like half worn at 5 mm" and should be done...in time. Think the diluted coolant is the more pressing issue to deal with right now. It's always something!!!

Could be the thermal expansion valve.

corvette

au1994 said:

It involved a middle of the night flight with some cargo not on the manifest if I recall.

And they let a band into the prison to play a personal concert for him, smuggling him out in an instrument case, if memory serves.

tjc78

@au1994 said:
I met a gentleman at the bar at the lake a few weeks back. He was on his second Wagoneer. The first was lemon lawed for electric gremlins. The second has had the entire interior removed twice trying to trace another one. 🤦

I love those things, but I don’t think the Yukon/Tahoe have much to worry about at this point.

Yukon and Tahoe (Escalade too) aren’t immune either. Lots of premature engine problems.

jmonroe1

corvette said:

au1994 said:

It involved a middle of the night flight with some cargo not on the manifest if I recall.

And they let a band into the prison to play a personal concert for him, smuggling him out in an instrument case, if memory serves.

————————————————
I guess you can say he played the authorities like a drum.

Sorry I couldn’t resist.

jmonroe

anonymousposts2025

In GA, we are used to high dealer doc fees. Not as bad as FL though. My father-in-law just traded his 23 RAV4 Hybrid Limited for a 25 NX350h. His RAV4 is a little newer than ours with less miles so we played with the idea of buying his. By the time we found out he was trading it, he was signing paperwork and didn’t want to unwind his deal. The dealer he traded it to have him $31k, they offered it to us at $33k, but their doc fee was $999. We passed on buying it. Carvana offered us $27,200 for our 21 Hybrid XLE Premium with 60k. Wouldn’t have been a bad deal, the doc fee was annoying though.

We dropped the Si off to have the last of the accessories installed. They gave us a 24 VW Taos as a loaner. Not a bad little SUV. It did feel a little softer than what we’re used to with VW. I could see it as an option if I still commuted 2 hours / 65 miles each way for work.

nyccarguy

anonymousposts2025 said:

In GA, we are used to high dealer doc fees. Not as bad as FL though. My father-in-law just traded his 23 RAV4 Hybrid Limited for a 25 NX350h. His RAV4 is a little newer than ours with less miles so we played with the idea of buying his. By the time we found out he was trading it, he was signing paperwork and didn’t want to unwind his deal. The dealer he traded it to have him $31k, they offered it to us at $33k, but their doc fee was $999. We passed on buying it. Carvana offered us $27,200 for our 21 Hybrid XLE Premium with 60k. Wouldn’t have been a bad deal, the doc fee was annoying though.

We dropped the Si off to have the last of the accessories installed. They gave us a 24 VW Taos as a loaner. Not a bad little SUV. It did feel a little softer than what we’re used to with VW. I could see it as an option if I still commuted 2 hours / 65 miles each way for work.

The Taos or the RAV4 Hybrid? While I'm sure the Taos would be more comfortable and powerful for merging and squirting in and out of traffic, the RAV4 Hybrid would net you much better fuel economy and given those miles (I thought I did a lot of driving @ 65 miles per day R/T) and would depreciate less over the same period of time.

So they offered to sell you his car for $2K more than they offered him plus the $999 doc fee? A quick $3K for them. When you said no, they probably threw it up on their website for $37K to $39K. Discounted it after a few weeks and sold it for $36K + the $999 doc fee and a $3,000 extended warranty...

Sandman6472

Thermal expansion valve, will remember that for when I bring it in. Luckily I don't drive that much but, still want it to be working. And naturally, after these next couple of days, no more cold weather till after the new year. Still annoying to be honest, just want things to be working already. And I know it isn't much, but after awhile, these little things make me just want to get something new, or newer, and be done with it!

jmonroe1

anonymousposts2025 said:

In GA, we are used to high dealer doc fees. Not as bad as FL though. My father-in-law just traded his 23 RAV4 Hybrid Limited for a 25 NX350h. His RAV4 is a little newer than ours with less miles so we played with the idea of buying his. By the time we found out he was trading it, he was signing paperwork and didn’t want to unwind his deal. The dealer he traded it to have him $31k, they offered it to us at $33k, but their doc fee was $999. We passed on buying it. Carvana offered us $27,200 for our 21 Hybrid XLE Premium with 60k. Wouldn’t have been a bad deal, the doc fee was annoying though.

We dropped the Si off to have the last of the accessories installed. They gave us a 24 VW Taos as a loaner. Not a bad little SUV. It did feel a little softer than what we’re used to with VW. I could see it as an option if I still commuted 2 hours / 65 miles each way for work.

————————————————
Wow, I don’t know how you can get used to a $999 doc fee. I’ve heard it said if you get kicked in the you know whats often enough you’ll get used to it but it still HURTS like hell.

FWIW, doc fees in PA are starting to get out of hand. Not too many years ago they were less than $200. I think it’s $450 now with an automatic escalator every year to match the cost of inflation or a number hit by a dart, whichever is greater. I guess the PA Car Dealers Association finally kicked in enough bucks to get the deal they wanted along with inviting the right folks to their annual Christmas party and island vacations.

Money talks…always has and always will.

jmonroe

anonymousposts2025

@nyccarguy said:
The Taos or the RAV4 Hybrid? While I'm sure the Taos would be more comfortable and powerful for merging and squirting in and out of traffic, the RAV4 Hybrid would net you much better fuel economy and given those miles (I thought I did a lot of driving @ 65 miles per day R/T) and would depreciate less over the same period of time.

So they offered to sell you his car for $2K more than they offered him plus the $999 doc fee? A quick $3K for them. When you said no, they probably threw it up on their website for $37K to $39K. Discounted it after a few weeks and sold it for $36K + the $999 doc fee and a $3,000 extended warranty...

You’re 100% … He said they planned to sell it for $36-$37k so they wouldn’t budge off of the $32k. We decided to pass and ended up buying the Civic soon after. My father-in-law had issues with the Lexus before and after delivery. Not what I’d expect from a Lexus dealer.

The RAV4 is a better car overall. More room, etc. the Taos is a nice size and was an easy drive. Fortunately, I work from home now and the commute is in the past. I had a 2015 Prius at that time. I could have driven a company car, but stayed in the Prius most of the time.

suydam

Sandman6472 said:

Thermal expansion valve, will remember that for when I bring it in. Luckily I don't drive that much but, still want it to be working. And naturally, after these next couple of days, no more cold weather till after the new year. Still annoying to be honest, just want things to be working already. And I know it isn't much, but after awhile, these little things make me just want to get something new, or newer, and be done with it!

Sandy, you’ve got another 10 days or so to add another CCBA punch to the list!

jmonroe1

suydam said:

Sandman6472 said:

Thermal expansion valve, will remember that for when I bring it in. Luckily I don't drive that much but, still want it to be working. And naturally, after these next couple of days, no more cold weather till after the new year. Still annoying to be honest, just want things to be working already. And I know it isn't much, but after awhile, these little things make me just want to get something new, or newer, and be done with it!

Sandy, you’ve got another 10 days or so to add another CCBA punch to the list!

————————————————
How many days does he have to get his first?

jmonroe

anonymousposts2025

Who’s going to be first in 2025?

xwesx

anonymousposts2025 said:

Who’s going to be first in 2025?

Not it!

benjaminh

nyccarguy said:

For $5K I don’t hate it:

https://www.prestigetoyota.com/used/Subaru/2012-Subaru-Forester-ramsey+nj-73b36608ac18309bbe1673d3c869d8c3.htm

It's concerning that the Carfax seems to show that sometimes there were long periods of time/miles when oil changes weren't performed. The first owner leased that Forester and got the first oil change at a gas station at about 8000 miles, but then the next service record is at the end of the lease at 47k. Probably there were some services in-between missed by Carfax, but how do we know without service records? Once an engine has gone 20k or more without an oil change I don't think I'd trust it.

benjaminh

For a $70k car this seems like a good lease rate....
https://www.acuraatoxmoor.com/sales-specials/