I'd turn off the OD if you are towing on non-interstates. On the interstate you could get away with OD on if it's not too hilly. If you see it downshifting often while towing, then turn off the OD.
2nd start is used in snowy conditions so that you don't spin the wheels when accelerating from a stop.
Thank you and that is a relief, 'cause that is what I have been doing for the last two Summers. The manual recommends turning OD off, but the reasons don't seem to have anything to do with wearing out the four wheel drive transmission of the vehicle. I'd been told that with four wheel drive it was a big mistake to tow with overdrive engaged under any circumstances.
It's just to prevent excessive heat build up due to the tranny hunting between 3rd and 4th gears a lot. Depending on my loads and roads I will sometimes take it out of OD.
I'm going to be flying out to Denver next month to help my son come home from auto school.
We'll be towing and hauling. Hauling his stuff (not that much) and towing his car, a '72 Olds Cutlass. Right now, I'm planning to rent a minimum truck (14 footer) and a car transport trailer. Would like to use a dolly, but the Cutlass is too wide.
Thing is that the truck is expensive ($900) and will get terrible mpg and we don't need that much space. A perfect application for an SUV. Trouble is, I cannot find any company that will rent an SUV either with a hitch OR one-way and I need both. Of course I could use a pickup truck, but that's even harder to find.
because nobody will rent a vehicle for towing that you might use a couple times a year, you have to buy one, and thus forego any magic environmental conscience you may have.
it's a real issue. the contract tool rental joints might have them but they're local rentals only.
I would say get a couple of CBs and have your son drive his car back, you can keep yakking at each other, and it won't be that bad.
a 72 cutlass ought to be able to tow the fabled orange shoebox from U-Haul in a 2000-pound size, all you'd have to do is get a hitch on it. you could have him order that before you get there, takes a week or two to get one in for a not-as-common vehicle. also a good excuse for him to do his brakes before the road trip.
if you rent a minivan or an econoline, and put all the soft stuff, the CDs and stereo, etc. in the cutlass, put furniture etc. in the van, that ought to work out and you'll not spend as much... you might not even need to tow with the cutlass.
how much stuff is there really to move? I got into and out of the dorm with 7-cubic foot stereo speakers about six times between nebraska and north dakota in a 65 dodge coronet 440, it all fit, no issues at all. that was without furniture... anything I would have had in say an efficiency apartment would have fit in the orange shoebox.
oh, you could also ship a bunch of stuff UPS or parcel post that wouldn't beneeded for a week or two, and that isn't likely to break. that cuts it down even more.
If I recall correctly (I tow with Uhaul auto-transports ALOT) they only will allow 4000lbs of vehicle to be put on it, the Cutlass may weigh more than that. I know my '74 Olds 98 was more than that.
No, it's only got the small block...it weighs about 3500 lbs, so the transport is ok. OTOH, the transport weighs 2100 lbs so we'll be towing 5600 lbs plus stuff...maybe 400-600 lbs. So we'll need to tow 6000-6200 lbs.
Steve (our host) suggested buying something to tow the uhaul transport and selling it in NY...at first, I thought that was too much, but I'm actually thinking of it...my son works at a used car dealer and might be able to get something near cost.
Here's what I think would do the job...using '98 vehicles as the example and tow capacity:
Chevy CK 3500 PU...7500 DodgeRam 1500 PU...6400 DodgeRam 2500 PU...9100 Ford F150 PU...7300 Dodge Durango 5.9LV8 SUV...7300 Ford Expedition...6100-8000
Any comments on the tow capacities and/or any additional possibilities? The Excursion and Sub are also possibilities as is the Tahoe/Yukon.
Driving his car back would be cheaper and yes, putting a hitch on is what I would do but his car wouldn't make it...it needs a lot of work.
I could send it via transport, too...but his stuff still has to get home and doing that plus paying $800-1000 for transport is too much.
that's why we have to buy them ourselves...because nobody will rent a vehicle for towing that you might use a couple times a year, you have to buy one, and thus forego any magic environmental conscience you may have.
Well, renting has its downsides too but yes, basically you're right. But I don't think buying an SUV to tow makes you forego your conscience (unless it really is magical ;-) )...the benefits outweigh the impact...unlike grocery hauling ;-) But that's another topic...
In any case, thanks for the suggestions. I'm still working on this.
That makes sense then. What about renting a PU? Uhaul rents Pickups and Vans, both of which might fit the bill.
Also I've seen some rental companies rent Excursions and Expeditions with high enough class of hitch to cover your needs. He might have to do some legwork on his side.
Yeah, I did most of my research on the net but I even called the top companies (only the nationals do one-ways, of course) and asked flat out "do you do any one-way SUV rentals with a hitch"...answer..."no".
Don't forget you are talking to an operator getting paid $5/hr to answer the phone. I'd send your son to a local national rental place to investigate. You'd be suprised how things are different when you get down to it. For instance I know that Budget rents Rangers with a receiver hitch for one-way rentals, but if you call they don't tell you that they do.
Anyone have experience flat-towing (with a tow bar, towed vehicle has all 4 wheels on the ground)?
I'm currently planning on towing that '72 Cutlass 442 behind an SUV (Explorer/Blazer type) from Denver to NY.
I've heard from some that there are some issues regarding stability, esp in snow...and there's a fair chance that I'll have snow to deal with at some point.
I plan to use uhaul's "clamp to the towed vehicle's bumper" set up with the drive shaft disconnected. Don't have to worry about unlocking the steering with a '72!
Any comments, plus or minus would be appreciated...and any advice...haven't made a final decision yet.
I towed a ~90s SAAB 9000 on a dolly behind the Trooper for ~25 miles over to brooklyn from SI on a dolly. I'll never tow w/o brakes anything over 2500-3000lbs trailer weight. Stopping was not fun at all. I would definitely strongly suggest against it unless you had a 3500series/F350/camper/truck as the tow vehicle.
reason being that the pump is not running in the auto tranny without the engine on. but the rear wheels will be turning internal parts. the result is a dead transmission. you don't want that.
you can flat-tow it if you have the driveline pulled and put it in the back of the car, provided the towing vehicle has enough heft, brakes, etc. to control both load and itself. see the post above, there are reasons it's generally considered mandatory in state laws that you have trailer brakes on GVW heavier than 2000 pounds on the tow.
auto tranny with a FWD doesn't have a driveline to pull, that is way dicey. that one would have to be pulled with a dolly or a transport trailer.
flat-towing a manual is simplicity itself, put the car in neutral, all brakes off, and go.
having said all this... certain selected explorers (I think V6 with the 4-series auto transmission) COULD be dealer-equpped with an auxiliary transmission oil circulating pump for this purpose. that way, snowbirds etc. with the class-A motor home can tow the explorer with the pony pump keeping the transmision alive on battery, unhook at the Dew Drop Inn, and drive around town in the explorer. it may be availiable on a few other vehicles if you ask around.
whether a transmission shop can outfit your son's car with this sort of a workaround depends on design of the tranny, phase of the mooon, thickness of the wallet, all the usual gotchas. not saying it's impossible, but it's sorta a waste of the several hundred dollars or more if that would get the son's car roadworthy in its other respects.
I hear you on the weight with no brakes. I'm actually leaning towards using an F-150 instead of an SUV for this. Do you think the braking of the F-150 will be good enough?
paisain/swschrad:
I agree about the requirements for brakes above "X" lbs...AFAIK, though...no flat-towing set up has brakes...so this means they are always illegal? Not being contrary, just wondering.
swschrad:
Yes, we would definitely be disconnecting the drive shaft. The car is RWD.
As I said, I'm looking at a '95 F-150 with the towing package, the 5.0L V8 but manual tranny to use as the tow vehicle. It's the long bed.
I can't find accurate tow capacity info. Edmunds lists the tow capacity as 7500 lbs, but I assume that is for the stock V6 and with the auto tranny.
So, does anyone know what the tow capacity of that vehicle would be? Usually, manual trannies have less capacity than auto with the same truck/powerplant.
I will either be towing the 3500 lb car via the tow bar or via a car transport.
IIRC almost all Passenger Trucks F150/250, SUVs etc. require trailer brakes over 1500lbs. Most states require trailer brakes over 3000lbs. To be legal/within tow vehicle spec you'd probably need a motorhome chassis type vehicle to flat tow a 3500lb car. Even then in most states it would be illegal. I'd go for the F150 or the Explorer with the Uhaul Autotransport. I've used them fairly extensively, the other problem is make sure you calc in your gas milage. By the time you are done paying for the rental + Gas + Tolls you might have been better off having it shipped.
Here are some useful towing links for state laws and what not:
I'm not renting the F-150, I'm buying it ans will sell it in NY. I expect to at least break even.
I'm bring my son's stuff back anyway, so tolls and basic gas are incurred already.
The main reason to want to flat-tow is $ and lower tow capacity requirements. Uhaul's transport weighs 2100 lbs (so they tell me) and costs $680 to rent one way to use with my tow vehicle. The tow bar rents for $165. The bigger problem is that I'l be towing 5600 lbs + cargo with the transport, as opposed to 3600 lbs + cargo with the flat-tow.
I don't think I could tow the transport with the Explorer...trailer + cargo would exceed 6500 lbs. It would ok with the F-150, though...assuming the manual tranny can handle that.
Your gas is going to cost about 2x what it would cost to drive it. My guess is that between the auto-transport + fuel it will be = or > than shipping it back ($500? to ship?) plus a low-buck air-fare for your son to get back.
Either way I wouldn't flat tow it due to the braking issues.
It would cost $800-$1000 to ship. But this is not an option, esp not now...I have a non-refundable plane ticket for 2 weeks from tomorrow.
Without going into details, shipping it was not a good option for us...mainly because we have to get his stuff home anyway.
Your gas is going to cost about 2x what it would cost to drive it.
Well, besides the fact that it's in no shape to gocross country, actually it would probably use more gas if we drove it (those two things are linked). It's in such bad shape right now that it's getting about 5 mpg. OTOH, I expect to get 12-15 with the F-150.
Either way I wouldn't flat tow it due to the braking issues.
I hear you and I certainly haven't decided yet. So...I guess that means that, bottom line, you don't think the F-150 could handle flat-towing the car, brake-wise?
BTW, Mike, I really appreciate your help on this.
I may even change my mind about SUVs ;-) Ok, maybe not ;-)
That is quite agressive. My guess is that you'll get closer to 8-10mpg with a fully loaded F150 + 3500lb car and possibly 2100lb auto transport.
800-1000? wow last time I priced sending my Trooper out to Utah about a year ago it was $400-$500. But that's not a viable option now for yah.
I agree driving it by itself isn't gonna be a good idea either, Age + poor milage.
At this point what I'd do is get the auto-transport and tow it behind the F150 and hope for a good tailwind!
I believe Ford requires brakes on any trailer over 1500lbs. While I think the 1500 figure that most manufacturers state is a bit over the top anything over 2000-2500lbs that I've towed with F250s and Troopers was more than I wanted to handle w/o brakes.
Well, you may be right, I may get closer to 10 than 12. It'd be better than the uhaul truck which would cost me $900 and be lucky to get 8mpg.
800-1000? wow last time I priced sending my Trooper out to Utah about a year ago it was $400-$500.
A few months ago, when I was considering all options, I got 3 quotes that were all in that range.
I agree driving it by itself isn't gonna be a good idea either, Age + poor milage.
Yeah...it's a "heart", not a "head" kind of car for my son...he limps around in it now. He says we wouldn't make it, period. It has no heat, either.
I believe Ford requires brakes on any trailer over 1500lbs. While I think the 1500 figure that most manufacturers state is a bit over the top anything over 2000-2500lbs that I've towed with F250s and Troopers was more than I wanted to handle w/o brakes.
Ok, I certainly got the message. I guess there's a chance I might still do the crazy thing and try to flat tow it with the F-150, but I may well end up with the transport. I have one reserved.
I called Ford this morning to ask about the tow capacity and they said that since it's a '94, they have to do some "deep research" and will get back to me in 3-4 days (!). Yikes, I thought they'd be able to look it up.
if so, that's not an issue... hmm...you bet, automatic hydraulic surge brake. so don't worry about the braking issues. max load, 4000 pounds, requires a class-3 5000-pound capacity hitch with ball in the 1-7/8 to 2-1/4 range. max rated speed 45 mph, no soft-top SUVs permitted to rent this, you need left and right external mirrors. when you buy that F150, it will cost you something like $150-250 for a good grade hitch and ball and drawbar meeting the standards. installation shouldn't be more than a half hour by any dimwit.
"automatic hydraulic surge brake" means there is a brake pedal in the hitch connector... as it presses against the hitch ball on a stop, it proportionally brakes the trailer independently. you will have some extra (and possibly non-linear depending on adjustment) brake requirements on the truck brakes, but nowhere near braking the full load.
see www.uhaul.com/guide, on equipment, pick auto transporter near the bottom. the page is done in frames, so I can't post a comprehensive direct link.
Well, I've decided to use the car transport, and I'm now looking for the vehicle to tow it. It'll probably be a F-150 (auto tranny this time, to get the 7300 lb tow capacity), a c1500 with the 5.7L or a Tahoe with the same engine.
does the u-haul auto transporter have hydraulic hitch brakes?
As Mike said, yes, it does. I expect total weight to be towed to be about 6000 lbs (2000 lbs trailer, 3400 lbs car, 600+ lbs cargo). This is less than I had originally thought since my son has decided to take less home.
I'm wondering about that 45 mph speed limit. Mike, you've used this trailer...if I promise not to tell anyone, how fast do you think it's comfortable to drive with it? It's a pity to waste those 75mph limits in Nebraska and Iowa ;-) Of course, no matter what, I ain't going that fast...
Speaking of surge brakes, my boat trailer has them, soI'm familiar with how they're supposed to work...I say supposed to, since I just found out (by taking the PF and trailer with the boat on it and sliding on the ice...the trailer wheels did not loack up) that they're not working on my trailer. Not a big deal since I only tow the boat short distances, locally.
BTW..it turns out that the Ford F-150 with manual tranny is only rated for 2000 lbs.
Generally when I'm towing with the auto-transport, if it is properly loaded (and you may need to swap around the car if you find it isn't weighted properly) I usually set the cruise control on 70-75 when towing a 5500lb load on the interstates. Make sure to check the tire inflation before towing with it. I had a problem once where they were grossly underinflated and they heated up quickly.
Towing with a tahoe or F150 should work out nicely since they have more power than my Trooper and a longer wheelbase. I'd stick to 70-75 depending on conditions.
This would be a special F150 you are talking about, no? One that has a big engine and is prepped for trailering (oil/transmission coolers, springs, etc.).
Manuals can't take these heavy loads - rather, their clutches can't. I'm sure that's the limiting factor on the manual F150.
Thanks, Mike. That makes me feel better about not having to go 45.
Funny you should mention the balancing...my son had to replace the 350 in the 442...since he can't bear to part with the old one, he put it (in pieces) in the trunk of the car, where it will be transported home. That should balance the trailer out nicely ;-)
As I mentioned in an earlier post, the F-150 with manual tranny is only rated for 2000 lbs.
The 7300 lbs I referenced is for an F-150 with the small (4.6) V8 and the tow package and 2WD. The bigger (5.4) V8 can tow up to 8000 in a super cab version with the tow package and 2WD. The (4.2) V6 tows less, of course...from 5400 to 5600 lbs with auto & tow package.
I'm also considering the Durango with the 5.9L which will also tow 7300 and the C1500 with the 5.7L which will tow 7000.
All these numbers are based on '97 & '98 models, which are what I would be buying.
is there any vehicle with an unbraked towing capacity up to 3000#? anybody know where to find list which compares unbraked and braked towing capacities of vehicles? is there any standard "rule of thumb" for converting braked towing capacity to unbraked towing capacity? am I correct to assume that towing capacity referenced in Edmund's reports and others is typically the braked towing capacity?
Is the max un-braked towing capacity I've seen listed on any manufacturer's specs. That included HD Pickups from Ford, GM and Dodge. I am not sure what you mean by converting of towing capacity, but I wouldn't tow over 2000lbs w/o brakes on the trailer.
Just wanted to wrap it up...towed the Olds 442 & uhaul car transport from Denver to NY with no problems. Defintely pushed the capacity of the Ram 1500 (5.9L/tow cap 7300 lbs). The car was packed a bit and the truck was packed as well. The car/trailer I'm sure was at its 4000 lb limit (plus 2000 for the trailer) so we were towing 6000 lbs. The cargo in the truck was 500-800 lbs, I estimate. So we had no more than a 500 lbs margin on tow capacity. We didn't accelerate too well, though adequately. We were able to do 75 most of the way, slowing to 50 on the worst hills, which were very few (western PA, I80). The braking was marginal as well, even with the trailer surge brakes. We had to brake early.
We covered 1800 miles in two days, 15 hours a day (2 drivers) with a sleepover in the Quad Cities area. We used about 200 gal of gas. Mike, you were right, we averaged worse than I hoped, just under 9 mpg.
I'm sure glad I got the PU to tow instead of the 4WD Tahoe I was considering...we definitely needed the extra 800 lbs of tow capacity that the Ram had.
We must have seen 60 or 70 vehicles being towed by transports, dollies, flatbeds and towbars on I80...it was long, fun (sometimes) but exhausting trip, but best of all, a completed one. It was worth it when my son drive the 442 off the transport last nite in front of his house, enjoying the throaty roar (hey, Dad, I got about 20 more HP now at sea level!) and was greeted by his mom.
Thanks again to you guys here, this was a big help.
Yep, West Islip. I live in Bay Shore, about 5 miles away.
The trailer was a champ, btw...we used the slightly larger version of the 2 that uhaul offers (same price). The 442's suspension is a bit soft so it danced around sometimes, but was surprisingly stable overall.
The biggest challenge was keeping in the lane. Any steering corrections were magnified and it took extra focus all the time. The Ram PU wasn't the greatest of tracking vehicles so that didn't help ;-) And it has big Mickey Thompsons on it which would have been great if we had to go through snow or go off road ;-)
We also lucked out with no precipitation the whole way...some wet roads in western PA last nite, but that was it.
without a stabilizing hitch, but you had enough tow vehicle so it wasn't tail wagging the dog. I once saw a little GMC safari van towing a two-axle 27-foot holiday rambler. the guy would have been toast in the ditches if he didn't have the stabilizing hitch. that vehicle was still badly overloaded in my humble opinion.
Is based off a 1500 series PU chassis IIRC. I have found that the wind generated against a travel trailer usually requires them to need a weight distributing hitch more than say a boat or car trailer.
Both of these vans are based on the S10 truck platform not the full size 1500. The vans have a good drivetrain for towing, 4.3l engine with rwd platform. However, the rear suspension is not fit for towing heavy loads. It is designed for a comfortable ride with passengers. The same is true for most SUV's, good towing drivetrain, inadequate rear suspension. In the end, weight dist. hitch is a must for heavy loads on thes vehicles if you want to be safe.
I have no evidence either way other than hearsay and that a few of the offroaders I know bolted up a lot of stuff from 1500 series PUs onto the Safari.
Comments
Also, when do I ever need to use the "2nd" button that I understand starts the vehicle in 2nd gear?
Thanks in advance to the experts out there!
2nd start is used in snowy conditions so that you don't spin the wheels when accelerating from a stop.
-mike
-mike
We'll be towing and hauling. Hauling his stuff (not that much) and towing his car, a '72 Olds Cutlass. Right now, I'm planning to rent a minimum truck (14 footer) and a car transport trailer. Would like to use a dolly, but the Cutlass is too wide.
Thing is that the truck is expensive ($900) and will get terrible mpg and we don't need that much space. A perfect application for an SUV. Trouble is, I cannot find any company that will rent an SUV either with a hitch OR one-way and I need both. Of course I could use a pickup truck, but that's even harder to find.
Any ideas?
it's a real issue. the contract tool rental joints might have them but they're local rentals only.
I would say get a couple of CBs and have your son drive his car back, you can keep yakking at each other, and it won't be that bad.
a 72 cutlass ought to be able to tow the fabled orange shoebox from U-Haul in a 2000-pound size, all you'd have to do is get a hitch on it. you could have him order that before you get there, takes a week or two to get one in for a not-as-common vehicle. also a good excuse for him to do his brakes before the road trip.
if you rent a minivan or an econoline, and put all the soft stuff, the CDs and stereo, etc. in the cutlass, put furniture etc. in the van, that ought to work out and you'll not spend as much... you might not even need to tow with the cutlass.
how much stuff is there really to move? I got into and out of the dorm with 7-cubic foot stereo speakers about six times between nebraska and north dakota in a 65 dodge coronet 440, it all fit, no issues at all. that was without furniture... anything I would have had in say an efficiency apartment would have fit in the orange shoebox.
oh, you could also ship a bunch of stuff UPS or parcel post that wouldn't beneeded for a week or two, and that isn't likely to break. that cuts it down even more.
-mike
Steve (our host) suggested buying something to tow the uhaul transport and selling it in NY...at first, I thought that was too much, but I'm actually thinking of it...my son works at a used car dealer and might be able to get something near cost.
Here's what I think would do the job...using '98 vehicles as the example and tow capacity:
Chevy CK 3500 PU...7500
DodgeRam 1500 PU...6400
DodgeRam 2500 PU...9100
Ford F150 PU...7300
Dodge Durango 5.9LV8 SUV...7300
Ford Expedition...6100-8000
Any comments on the tow capacities and/or any additional possibilities? The Excursion and Sub are also possibilities as is the Tahoe/Yukon.
I could send it via transport, too...but his stuff still has to get home and doing that plus paying $800-1000 for transport is too much.
that's why we have to buy them ourselves...because nobody will rent a vehicle for towing that you might use a couple times a year, you have to buy one, and thus forego any magic environmental conscience you may have.
Well, renting has its downsides too but yes, basically you're right. But I don't think buying an SUV to tow makes you forego your conscience (unless it really is magical ;-) )...the benefits outweigh the impact...unlike grocery hauling ;-) But that's another topic...
In any case, thanks for the suggestions. I'm still working on this.
Also I've seen some rental companies rent Excursions and Expeditions with high enough class of hitch to cover your needs. He might have to do some legwork on his side.
-mike
Uhaul rents Pickups and Vans
They do not rent their vans one-way. I'm not aware of any pickups that they rent.
If anyone knows of a way to rent a PU or SUV, I could use that info. It's Denver to NY.
I've seen pickups rented by uhaul but not sure if they are one-way or locals.
-mike
I'll check uhaul again re pickups.
thanks.
-mike
I'll post anything I find here.
I'm currently planning on towing that '72 Cutlass 442 behind an SUV (Explorer/Blazer type) from Denver to NY.
I've heard from some that there are some issues regarding stability, esp in snow...and there's a fair chance that I'll have snow to deal with at some point.
I plan to use uhaul's "clamp to the towed vehicle's bumper" set up with the drive shaft disconnected. Don't have to worry about unlocking the steering with a '72!
Any comments, plus or minus would be appreciated...and any advice...haven't made a final decision yet.
Tom
-mike
you can flat-tow it if you have the driveline pulled and put it in the back of the car, provided the towing vehicle has enough heft, brakes, etc. to control both load and itself. see the post above, there are reasons it's generally considered mandatory in state laws that you have trailer brakes on GVW heavier than 2000 pounds on the tow.
auto tranny with a FWD doesn't have a driveline to pull, that is way dicey. that one would have to be pulled with a dolly or a transport trailer.
flat-towing a manual is simplicity itself, put the car in neutral, all brakes off, and go.
having said all this... certain selected explorers (I think V6 with the 4-series auto transmission) COULD be dealer-equpped with an auxiliary transmission oil circulating pump for this purpose. that way, snowbirds etc. with the class-A motor home can tow the explorer with the pony pump keeping the transmision alive on battery, unhook at the Dew Drop Inn, and drive around town in the explorer. it may be availiable on a few other vehicles if you ask around.
whether a transmission shop can outfit your son's car with this sort of a workaround depends on design of the tranny, phase of the mooon, thickness of the wallet, all the usual gotchas. not saying it's impossible, but it's sorta a waste of the several hundred dollars or more if that would get the son's car roadworthy in its other respects.
paisan:
I hear you on the weight with no brakes. I'm actually leaning towards using an F-150 instead of an SUV for this. Do you think the braking of the F-150 will be good enough?
paisain/swschrad:
I agree about the requirements for brakes above "X" lbs...AFAIK, though...no flat-towing set up has brakes...so this means they are always illegal? Not being contrary, just wondering.
swschrad:
Yes, we would definitely be disconnecting the drive shaft. The car is RWD.
I can't find accurate tow capacity info. Edmunds lists the tow capacity as 7500 lbs, but I assume that is for the stock V6 and with the auto tranny.
So, does anyone know what the tow capacity of that vehicle would be? Usually, manual trannies have less capacity than auto with the same truck/powerplant.
I will either be towing the 3500 lb car via the tow bar or via a car transport.
Here are some useful towing links for state laws and what not:
http://www.mbyc.net/Fleet59/Boat%20Towing%20Laws%20in%20California.htm
http://www.boatus.com/towing/towlaw.htm
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/Equipment/towing/index.htm
http://www.championtrailers.com/brkart.html
http://www.easternshoreoutfitters.com/marylandboattowinglaws.htm
-mike
I'm not renting the F-150, I'm buying it ans will sell it in NY. I expect to at least break even.
I'm bring my son's stuff back anyway, so tolls and basic gas are incurred already.
The main reason to want to flat-tow is $ and lower tow capacity requirements. Uhaul's transport weighs 2100 lbs (so they tell me) and costs $680 to rent one way to use with my tow vehicle. The tow bar rents for $165. The bigger problem is that I'l be towing 5600 lbs + cargo with the transport, as opposed to 3600 lbs + cargo with the flat-tow.
I don't think I could tow the transport with the Explorer...trailer + cargo would exceed 6500 lbs. It would ok with the F-150, though...assuming the manual tranny can handle that.
Your gas is going to cost about 2x what it would cost to drive it. My guess is that between the auto-transport + fuel it will be = or > than shipping it back ($500? to ship?) plus a low-buck air-fare for your son to get back.
Either way I wouldn't flat tow it due to the braking issues.
-mike
Without going into details, shipping it was not a good option for us...mainly because we have to get his stuff home anyway.
Your gas is going to cost about 2x what it would cost to drive it.
Well, besides the fact that it's in no shape to gocross country, actually it would probably use more gas if we drove it (those two things are linked). It's in such bad shape right now that it's getting about 5 mpg. OTOH, I expect to get 12-15 with the F-150.
Either way I wouldn't flat tow it due to the braking issues.
I hear you and I certainly haven't decided yet. So...I guess that means that, bottom line, you don't think the F-150 could handle flat-towing the car, brake-wise?
BTW, Mike, I really appreciate your help on this.
I may even change my mind about SUVs ;-) Ok, maybe not ;-)
800-1000? wow last time I priced sending my Trooper out to Utah about a year ago it was $400-$500. But that's not a viable option now for yah.
I agree driving it by itself isn't gonna be a good idea either, Age + poor milage.
At this point what I'd do is get the auto-transport and tow it behind the F150 and hope for a good tailwind!
I believe Ford requires brakes on any trailer over 1500lbs. While I think the 1500 figure that most manufacturers state is a bit over the top anything over 2000-2500lbs that I've towed with F250s and Troopers was more than I wanted to handle w/o brakes.
-mike
800-1000? wow last time I priced sending my Trooper out to Utah about a year ago it was $400-$500.
A few months ago, when I was considering all options, I got 3 quotes that were all in that range.
I agree driving it by itself isn't gonna be a good idea either, Age + poor milage.
Yeah...it's a "heart", not a "head" kind of car for my son...he limps around in it now. He says we wouldn't make it, period. It has no heat, either.
I believe Ford requires brakes on any trailer over 1500lbs. While I think the 1500 figure that most manufacturers state is a bit over the top anything over 2000-2500lbs that I've towed with F250s and Troopers was more than I wanted to handle w/o brakes.
Ok, I certainly got the message. I guess there's a chance I might still do the crazy thing and try to flat tow it with the F-150, but I may well end up with the transport. I have one reserved.
I called Ford this morning to ask about the tow capacity and they said that since it's a '94, they have to do some "deep research" and will get back to me in 3-4 days (!). Yikes, I thought they'd be able to look it up.
when you buy that F150, it will cost you something like $150-250 for a good grade hitch and ball and drawbar meeting the standards. installation shouldn't be more than a half hour by any dimwit.
"automatic hydraulic surge brake" means there is a brake pedal in the hitch connector... as it presses against the hitch ball on a stop, it proportionally brakes the trailer independently. you will have some extra (and possibly non-linear depending on adjustment) brake requirements on the truck brakes, but nowhere near braking the full load.
see www.uhaul.com/guide, on equipment, pick auto transporter near the bottom. the page is done in frames, so I can't post a comprehensive direct link.
-mike
does the u-haul auto transporter have hydraulic hitch brakes?
As Mike said, yes, it does. I expect total weight to be towed to be about 6000 lbs (2000 lbs trailer, 3400 lbs car, 600+ lbs cargo). This is less than I had originally thought since my son has decided to take less home.
I'm wondering about that 45 mph speed limit. Mike, you've used this trailer...if I promise not to tell anyone, how fast do you think it's comfortable to drive with it? It's a pity to waste those 75mph limits in Nebraska and Iowa ;-) Of course, no matter what, I ain't going that fast...
Speaking of surge brakes, my boat trailer has them, soI'm familiar with how they're supposed to work...I say supposed to, since I just found out (by taking the PF and trailer with the boat on it and sliding on the ice...the trailer wheels did not loack up) that they're not working on my trailer. Not a big deal since I only tow the boat short distances, locally.
BTW..it turns out that the Ford F-150 with manual tranny is only rated for 2000 lbs.
Towing with a tahoe or F150 should work out nicely since they have more power than my Trooper and a longer wheelbase. I'd stick to 70-75 depending on conditions.
-mike
Manuals can't take these heavy loads - rather, their clutches can't. I'm sure that's the limiting factor on the manual F150.
Funny you should mention the balancing...my son had to replace the 350 in the 442...since he can't bear to part with the old one, he put it (in pieces) in the trunk of the car, where it will be transported home. That should balance the trailer out nicely ;-)
The 7300 lbs I referenced is for an F-150 with the small (4.6) V8 and the tow package and 2WD. The bigger (5.4) V8 can tow up to 8000 in a super cab version with the tow package and 2WD. The (4.2) V6 tows less, of course...from 5400 to 5600 lbs with auto & tow package.
I'm also considering the Durango with the 5.9L which will also tow 7300 and the C1500 with the 5.7L which will tow 7000.
All these numbers are based on '97 & '98 models, which are what I would be buying.
-mike
With the tow package, it's rated for 7300 lbs. Has the quad cab. Hopefully it uses a different transmission from the Durango.
It's not an SUV, but it'll do the job. I'll be using the uhaul car transport. We leave Denver for NY on Fri nite or Sat morning.
Thanks, guys, for the help.
-mike
We covered 1800 miles in two days, 15 hours a day (2 drivers) with a sleepover in the Quad Cities area. We used about 200 gal of gas. Mike, you were right, we averaged worse than I hoped, just under 9 mpg.
I'm sure glad I got the PU to tow instead of the 4WD Tahoe I was considering...we definitely needed the extra 800 lbs of tow capacity that the Ram had.
We must have seen 60 or 70 vehicles being towed by transports, dollies, flatbeds and towbars on I80...it was long, fun (sometimes) but exhausting trip, but best of all, a completed one. It was worth it when my son drive the 442 off the transport last nite in front of his house, enjoying the throaty roar (hey, Dad, I got about 20 more HP now at sea level!) and was greeted by his mom.
Thanks again to you guys here, this was a big help.
Later.
-mike
The trailer was a champ, btw...we used the slightly larger version of the 2 that uhaul offers (same price). The 442's suspension is a bit soft so it danced around sometimes, but was surprisingly stable overall.
The biggest challenge was keeping in the lane. Any steering corrections were magnified and it took extra focus all the time. The Ram PU wasn't the greatest of tracking vehicles so that didn't help ;-) And it has big Mickey Thompsons on it which would have been great if we had to go through snow or go off road ;-)
We also lucked out with no precipitation the whole way...some wet roads in western PA last nite, but that was it.
glad you had a good trip.
-mike
The vans have a good drivetrain for towing, 4.3l engine with rwd platform. However, the rear suspension is not fit for towing heavy loads. It is designed for a comfortable ride with passengers. The same is true for most SUV's, good towing drivetrain, inadequate rear suspension.
In the end, weight dist. hitch is a must for heavy loads on thes vehicles if you want to be safe.
-mike
My guess would be a mini-van of some sort *might* handle it.
-mike