Tires, tires, tires

imidazol97

I have a little knowledge of geometry, but I don't see how the tire wear would affect the mechanical outcome of an alignment. But I too would tend to have realignment done after dropping money on new tires if there's any sign one's needed. I don't drive in a pothole-ridden area where I do a lot of stress to the alignment.

Sears tire service is a sore point to me. They tend to put the nuts back on with the air gun instead of hand-starting them. Then you have one cross-threaded occasionally. When they spin them off fast, they heat up and swedge and twist off the stud. Or the jam on the stud if the guy is quick enough and then they tell you it's your cost to fix. I figured out it's them putting them on carelessly that causes the cross-threading. They were the only ones doing the tires after NTB closed its store in this area and I inherited the local sears store as the lifetime balance and rotation source. No Sears damage for me from now on.

stever

The Aeroblade featured on Inside Line news today may be cool (for $12.5k, it better be), but I like this idea better:

Air Hub, a device that automatically replenishes air in a bicycle's tires. (Web Japan)

Adapt this for your car and automatically keep your tires inflated just tooling around town.

Steve, Host

capriracer

"I don't understand how tire diameter affects the readout from alignment machines. They attach a device to the RIM."

Well, not exactly! MOST machines attach to the rim, but there are a few that don't. Plus there are ways to measure alignment that require the tread surface.

Most modern alignment machines (and vehicle specs) measure the key parameters in degrees, but toe is sometimes expressed as a distance - typically 32nds of an inch - the difference between centerlines of the tires front to rear. There are several devices that actually use the tread to measure this - one is called a trammel bar. I doubt if this device is used much outside home and racecars usage, but it's still possible that there is some old tech out there who feels more comfortable with toe as a dimension and measures it that way.

To me, alignments are a two sided coin. If you buy new tires you should get an alignment - unless you ae willing to accept the risk that the tires will wear unevenly. For a $100 set of tires, this sounds like a reasonable risk to take, but for a $1000....mmmmmmm.

imidazol97

Stores used to offer an alignment check where they would check and if the alignment was within the specification guidelines there was no charge. But interestingly they always found that something required their $39.95 alignment touch for most people. Cars didn't stay in between the boundaries for the specifications +/-.

I did have a shop that would check alignment and charge part fee to redo toe-in only if caster & camber were within tolerance.

vppc

Hi, everyone!

I have a 2001 Ford Taurus SES with 92K and I will be purchasing tires probably at the end of winter. My current set are Champiro GT Radial 128 (H-rated at 50K). Those tires are wearing evenly and well with 22K put on them, but they are rougher and not as good of a tire as I could get, but they were only $315 OTD for all four with lifetime balance and road hazard from a independent shop.

Anyway, I have a Firestone card and get the majority of my car work done at Firestone here locally. I am considering the Bridgestone LS-T tire. I read excellent reviews and Firestone offered me those tires with lifetime balancing and road hazard for $490 OTD. I felt this was an excellent deal considering they were way more expensive when they first come out. I also have a lifetime alignment plan from Firestone that I only paid $99 for.

Is the above mentioned price a good deal for these tires?

Thanks!
- Alex

sandman46

Awesome tires dude!

The Sandman

jipster

I got a quote from our local Firestone dealer a couple weeks ago for the Bridgestone LS-T. It was $103 per tire(mounted, balanced, stems, alighnment check)
Didn't include the lifetime balancing or road hazard.

marsha7

alignment can be one of the major causes of tire wear (I am assuming that the inflation pressure is regularly checked and normal), I fail to see why you can't spend the extra $40-60 every year or two to have the alignment checked, in an attempt to get maximum tire wear out of your new tires...

Profit center for the dealer???...of course, but so are the tires...I hope you saved the $5 per tire by not having it balanced (please note dripping sarcasm)...saving money is an admirable thing to do, but certain maintenance items are a must...oil changes, tire rotations, checking fluids, brake checks, and an alignment every 12-18-24 months, depending on your road conditions...with new tires???...that is a great time to align and then monitor after that...I do not consider it money saved, I consider it inefficient money spent on tires...IMO, of course...YMMV...

tireguy

Has anyone had 285/70R17s installed on their 2000-2005 Yukon/Tahoe/Suburban? It came with 265/70R17 Firestones and I want to ditch them in favor of BFG AT's. I'm talking about using the stock 8" rims. I saw an '04 Sierra with the same rims and these tires and it looked awesome. The Bridgestones it came with are a pathetic excuse for a truck tire. I almost got stuck on the beach in hard-packed sand (with 4wd and a locking differential). I've had the BFG AT KOs on my WRangler for 45k miles and they still have lots of tread on them, and the traction is excellent.

mz6greyghost

If the size fits, your speedometer will be 3.5% slower. In other words, if your speedometer indicates 60, you'll actually be going 62.1 MPH.

It could be the difference between speeding ticket and no speeding ticket.

tireguy

That's an easy fix; a friend of mine has a programmer that will adjust the speedometer to account for larger tires. I'm just concerned about clearance.

glo22

I was told that my tires need to be replaced yesterday after my scheduled maintence service. The tech said two tires are right at the tread indicator. So what does it mean right at the tread indicator. Can I still drive them for another week? I want to wait another week since they are going to have a sale on tires at Costco.

pathstar1

A week should be fine. Just remember the tread is now worn so you will be more suceptable to hydroplaning - keep your speed down in the rain. You will also be more suceptable to punctures as there is less rubber for objects to penetrate. You've been driving on worn tires for months already (they don't wear that fast) so you shouldn't notice anything different.

tatee

I HAVE A 2003 F350 4X4 4DOOR LARIAT. NEED NEW TIRES, AND HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DO A LITTLE RESEARCH TO GET THE BEST TIRE, WHILE GETTING A "GOOD BANG FOR THE BUCK" . I HAVE TOTALLY CONFUSED MYSELF NOW. I HAVE ALWAYS BOUGHT MICHELINS BEFORE, BUT I FIGURE THERE MUST BE SOMETHING ELSE OUT THERE THAT IS COMPARABLE. THE ORIGINALS ARE LT265/75/16 WITH A LOAD RATING OF "E" . ANYONE HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS???? THANKS! ">

jipster

Yes, I am still looking people. Looked at and priced the Goodyear Tripletred last week at Goodyear tire store.Was $512 out the door(lifetime balance and rotation, valve stem, tax and fees)

Yesterday priced the Yokohama tires. The Avid Touring was $348 out the door. The Avid T4 is on sale at $60 off...making the out the door price $306. The T4 is more of a performance tire with 60,000 mile warranty...the Avid Touring a bit more comfortable a tire with 80,000 mile warranty. This would be for a 99 Buick Regal LS. I put around 6,000 miles a year on it. And plan on keeping it around another 5 years. Any advice or further info on these tires? It sounds like the T4 is like the touring with a little better handling ...sacraficing tread wear?

ruking1

On a 275/70/16 Yokohama Geolander HT/S G051's, I am having so far a good experience. Their are also some other applications since you do not suggest what your applications might be. Other than a more economic alternative to Michelin's and I would deduce the OEM brands.

I also am having a good experience with the Bridgestone Dueler AT REVO's. The highway tire is the B D H/L Alenza.

Previously I had been running Michelin LTX's for over 500k miles. These are GREAT tires (middlin to high rated) but the others are almost far cheaper.

I also would not rule out the latest gen, GY Fortera line. They sound HOT!!! However,I have had no experience with them and do not know anyone else who has.

laxcoach

my local guy gently pushed the toyo proxes 4 to replace my set of bridgestones. i also like the kumho asx. any suggestions? for the toyo's, he quoted me $129 per tire, installation included. is this a good tire or should i go with the kumho's? any help appreciated. thanks

ruking1

Lets see, the Kumho ASX are a H rated tire? If it is a better bang for the buck than the Toyo's, I'd say do the Kumho's. People I know with them like em the best of tires they have tried in that class and especially for the price. However they are not known for long treadwear if that makes a dif. I know that Toyo's are better bang for the buck than Bridgestones. I have a H rated Toyo TPT's. I really considered the ASX but want much much longer tread life. I have, but not have yet mounted the Toyo TPT's.

laxcoach

thanks. pricewise, by the time i drop ship the kumho's, the $25 per tire installation charge, it's the same. i definetly want a longer tread life. i wasn't familiar with toyo, that's why i asked for help. thank you!

ruking1

Sure, in addition, I have the Toyo Proxes T1S's 280 UTOQ (the replacement is the T1R) I actually chose the TPT's (a calculated jump) due to both other folks' experiences on my same car VW Jetta TDI, with the TPT's which was supplemented by my experience with the Proxes T1's.

ny540i6

Jipster, looking at your mileage, I would suggest getting the tire that best suits how you are going to use the car. Bottom line is that 6K a year means that you will either be selling the car, or changing the tires with at least half the tread left (assuming that you rotate, inflate etc). Frankly, if the Regal is driven like a Buick, and if you are looking at this as a three season/light snow tire I would go with the Touring.

stickguy

I have an '05 EX-L, and am considering putting on a suspension kit to sharpen up the handling. ALong with this, it makes sense to upgrade to a more performance oriented tire (although that could also be done in lieu of of the suspension pieces).

Anyway, I actually prefer to keep the 16" wheels that came with the car, as opposed to doing a +1.

So, my question is, does anyone know how wide you can go on the stock wheels (which I can't recall the width of), and when you would run into clearance issues? to complicate matters, the suspension kits lower the car slightly, and I really don't want to have the tires rubbing in the wheel well, or to compromise the great turning radius.

I did the calculations, and 225/55-16 is almost identical in total diameter to the stock 205/60s, so basically the question is can 225s fit on the stock wheels and in the wheel wells without a problem?

rs_petty

Has anyone used roadwaywholesaletire.com in Florida before. They beat TireRack on Bridgestone/Firestone and have cheaper shipping costs. Just wondering if they are reputable. Thanks.

donaldm1

Is there a maximum amount of weight that can be safely used in balancing a tire and wheel? If so, is a tire considered defective if the weight required is more than a certain amount?

tidester

I think the maximum is 2% of the tire weight but you probably don't want to go much above 1%. Can anyone verify this?

tidester, host

capriracer

Questions such as this are always difficult, but my thoughts are this:

1) I tend to use the word "defective" to mean something truly wrong with the tire - kind of a black or white sort of thing. And balance weights never really gets to this level.

2) Since a tire is always mounted on a rim, it's difficult to determine what contribution each has to the situation.

3) The price one pays for a tire ought to determine the level of acceptability. Put another way - If you buy cheap tires, you should expect more balance weights.

4) Commonly, vibrations are what causes folks to look at the balance weights (and other things) But there is a non-visible thing that can cause a vibration - tire uniformity. This is a structural consistency situation, where balance is all about mass distribution. In other words, you can have a large amount of imbalance, but the tire can be "uniform" and vice versa.

5) If a customer has a complaint about a new tire, then the tire dealer ought to try to resolve it - and most of the time this works! However, there are situations where this doesn't happen and I always wonder if the problem is on the dealer end or the customer end.

So maybe a few more details would be in order?

BUT: 2% of a 20# tire is 6.4 oz - a value most folks would agree is excessive. However, I think 1% (3 oz.) seems more like a good limit.

tidester

Well put! Thanks.

tidester, host

150mphclub

I got 30,000 from my set of CH 95's, too, and the lastt 10,000 miles were rough and loud. Try Falken 512 ziex. smoother, quieter, better wet/dry traction, and better cornering. don't know about the mileage yet.

jipster

How does the 30 day manufacturers free trial work. If you aren't happy you get your money back, but do you have to swap the tires for something else? Or, can you say just put my old tires back on.(provided you kept them) Do you have to pay mounting and balancing fees over again for the tire you have swapped for?

Also, do any of you ask to see the particular tires you are purchasing before they are mounted and installed. Seems this would be a good idea in case there was a cut, or scrape on the inside of tire that would ordinarily not be noticeable.

stickguy

you can only trade them in I believe. You certainly can't get your old ones back! But, I guess you may be able to get some elsewhere and just return the used ones.

I did this once (traded in for a different brand), but I don't know about a straight return.

Just pick up the phone and call the place! Or try to find them on the Web.

Oh, and there was no additional charge for mounting or balancing. Just brought the car in, swapped out the sneaks, and left.

Good idea about asking to see the tires (anal though), but more so to be able to see the manufacture date code, assuming you know how to translate it, to make sure you are getting fresh ones.

jipster

Thanks stick. I thought about checking the DOT as well to get a "fresh tire". But, I thought going thru a stack of tires checking the DOT may be....what you call, a little to "anal".

When do new tires start to go "stale"...about a year?

capriracer

"When do new tires start to go "stale"...about a year?"

Tires are sensitive to heat and oxygen (especially in the form of ozone.) Properly stored tires can be almost as "fresh" in 3 years as they are the day the roll (Pun not intended!) out of the factory.

However, there is considerable research being developed that says that there is a finite life to tires even if they are unused. Some folks have suggested a limit of 6 years, and some have said 10 years, but these age limits are directed mostly at tires in service and mounted spares.

imidazol97

Do refrigerators in garages add to the ozone level in a closed garage enough to affect the life of a tire?

pathstar1

The only way a refrigerator can add ozone is if its' electric motor had a comutator and sparked. All refrigeration units I've ever seen have been sealed units (motor sealed in with the pump) so no ozone is produced. I hope you're not referring to freon damaging the ozone layer? That's a completely different effect, and it -reduces- ozone.

imidazol97

Ozone layer?

Nope. I full understand the science. I had heard someone say that having a freezer or refrigerator in the garage caused ozone from the motor's operation. I thought the motors didn't have sparking so I posted to see if capriracer or someone would have facts on that.

Having power tools that do have sparking in the garage would be a minimal part of the time for most of us, so that shouldn't be a factor. Often the cars are outside when someone's using power tool in a typical garage.

capriracer

I didn't think you could build an electric motor without a commutator, and if you have a commutator (and brushes), you're going to have sparks, and sparks produce ozone. ===> Therefore all elecric motors produce ozone. The only time this isn't a problem is when the motor is sealed inside a container.

I don't think an occasional use of a power tool in the garage is going to create a problem for tires. What would cause a problem is if the tires were stored next to an electric motor that ran frequently - like a furnace or air compressor.

abfisch

Stickguy:

I am not an expert, but I have had a few cars now in 30 years of driving. This is IMO, so not the gospel. Before you change things, sometimes for the worse, evaluate you driving needs more.

Do you have a V-6 or 4 cylinder in that Accord??? Is this a 4 season or 3 season car??? Do you drive alot in the city or snow country where you either have potholes or road clearance issues. Is your car stick or auto??

This may influence your quest to temper your switch towards tire change first. Rather, I would submit to you, after answering the above questions, to start with the suspension changes and leave the tire/wheel changes till last. You will get much more bang for your buck, by changing struts, sway bar bushing or bars, than tire/wheel changes first.

I drive a 2002 Toyota Avalon XL with Tokico HP stuts and Energy Suspension bushing changes in the F/R sway bars and front control arms. The difference is remarkable. I have both 15 and 16 inch wheel/tire changes and although the 16" are more precise in transient response, the big bang for the buck was the struts. Lowering the car was not a consideration since this is a 4 season car, used in Northern NY through snow. I do change over to a 04 BMW 325ci Sports Suspension during the nice weather but that is never used in the snow/salt.

I would start with the suspension first. See how you like the changes, Then work on the tires if needed.

Hope that helps.

abfisch

pathstar1

They are powered by AC motors (two phase), most of which don't have commutators, though many smaller ones have an RPM activated switch to help them start. The AC field is "rotating" so no commutator is required - furnace fan motors, table saws, and larger electric fans are all examples. Hand power tools are an exception for many reasons but mainly they are a different design to get higher torque in a small size. They do have commutators, of course. Unless you were using the tools continuously I don't think the O3 they generate would build up enough to damage anything.

stever

"Just because you haven't had a flat in 5 years doesn't mean your full-size spare will be ready to go the next time you need it. If you do have occasion to put an older spare on your SUV, make sure you take it to a tire shop as soon as you can. They'll be able to tell if you the tire is too old to provide safe and reliable service."

And you thought the Ford-Firestone thing was over... (The Driving Woman)

Steve, Host

imidazol97

With all the hoopla about tires over 5 years might not be good, I had already noted my tire's rubber aging on my last two that were 4 years old--not dry rot. But when it was time for the Scout Troop to take a long trip to a canoe camp in Canada, I noticed the spare tire they had used on the trailer showed aging. Couldn't find a date.

Turned out it was older than the DOT date stamp in an oval. I think the scout member father who works in a tire store said it was 1988. To think they were going to haul a 1000 lbs of baggage in a trailer behind a van on a tire that old. Thanks to the publicity about age, I thought more about that than I would have and pointed it out during the trailer cleanout.

ruking1

I would agree. If one does have a full sized spare it is more than wise to use it in the tire rotation.

stever

My full size spare is a studded snow tire that doesn't get into the rotation (and it's ~8 years old), so I guess I'll just limp to the tire guys next time I have a flat.

Makes you think though, doesn't it?

Steve, Host

yurakm

I just realized that my spare is more than 6 years old. The car, a 2000 Buick Regal, was built in November 1999. The spare "donut" wheel will not fit on the front axles after upgrade to 12" Impala rotors, so it makes sense to buy an Impala donut rim as well.

I tried to find donuts on Tirerack without success. Does Tirerack carry donuts, and how to find them if yes?

1racefan

I have an AWD vehicle, and everything I have read says that all 4 tires need to be the same age (similar wear level) and brand/model in order to keep from putting additional strain on the AWD system from some of the tires causing more/less resistance than the others.

My question then is, how far can one drive on the donut tire if you have a flat without damaging AWD componants? I am not the type of person to drive for days without getting the original tire fixed, however I am asking this with the thoughts of having a flat on a trip, and having to go a couple hundred miles to get the tire fixed.

capriracer

"Does Tirerack carry donuts, and how to find them if yes?"

These spares may be a bit difficult to find, but because they aren't mainstream sales, they are usually special orders from the manufacturer.

2 suggestions:

Try the vehicle dealer. They are obligated to have parts available for 3 years after the model year and the tire might be on some current model.

Try the local tire shop. They will have to order it, so you'll need to see you manufactured the tire - and it's not likely to be the same as the tires on the ground.

And, of course, you could always call Tire Rack!

yurakm

Thank you!

By the way, the spare tires are available on GMPartsDirect. With shipping, they costs practically full MSRP, $5 savings. Did not find spare rims yet.

stever

"Maybe this will become the standard in the tire business."

Bridgestone Firestone Lets Consumers Test-Drive Tires for 30 Days (Inside Line)

Steve, Host

jipster

"Maybe this will become the standard in the tire business"

It doesn't sound like anything new to me. :confuse: Most tire manufacturers already have the "30 day trial" for new tires.

Bridgestone/Firestone offers your "money back" within 30 days if not satisfied. Sounds pretty much the same as what is already out there.

ruking1

Actually Toyo offered 45 days or 3k miles or take back for either refund or full credit to "whatever" tires.

Obviously a lot of folks took advantage of it to really just "try an array of tires" as they cut it back to 500 miles

http://toyo.com/500_mile_offer/

stever

I didn't see that deal when I got my Toyo's last year.

So, for a really good deal, you need to ask the tire store if they have some gently used tires in your size in stock?

Steve, Host