Tires, tires, tires

lmacmil

Just had my tires rotated when I got the oil changed. I noticed they just swapped fronts and backs (i.e., kept the tires on the same side). These are OEM Bridgestone EL400 so they are not directional. Did the mechanic just take a short cut or could he have noticed the curb rash on both right side wheels and done it on purpose so I won't screw up a 3rd wheel?

ruking1

For sure before I did any modifications ( to the oem recommended pattern and mileage), I would consult the shop manual and or the owners manual.

On the face of it, if you did curb rash the right sides two wheels and the tire guy didn't check the balance and alignment, you are increasing the chances of shorten wear due to either misalignment, out of balance tires and/or both. While you are on it it is also best to know what the oem recommended tire pressures are, again before you chose to do any modifications.

I am going to swag that you have a front wheel drive vehicle. Please correct me if I am incorrect.

The overall goal is each tire occupies each position (for 10,000 miles or whatever the oem recommendation) This of course balances out the wear. The process starts over at the end of the 4th rotation.

On one front wheel drive vehicle, the oem recommends cross the rears and bring the fronts straight back to the rear. BUT it only gives you 4 real tires.

Another recommends front to rear/rear to front. This is fine, but as you can see each tire occupies only 2 of 4 positions. But reading between the lines with the front passenger side wearing faster than the front drivers side, it is best to do a 5 tire rotation. They however give you 5 real tires. You cross the left rear to the right front, bring the right front to the trunk, take out the spare that was in the trunk to the right rear, and lastly bring the right rear to the left front and the left front to the left rear. So again each tire occupies each position and the 5 tire in effect compensates for a slightly faster wearing front passenger position. So far the tires are @ 105,000 miles where it was supposed to last 50,000 miles. (by a lot of other folks with like tires and car) The set looks good to go to @ least 120,000.

If you only have 4 tires, then an alternate is still cross the rears and bring the fronts straight back. As you can tell this USED to be easy.

lmacmil

Thanks for the detailed reply. Yes it is FWD (2005 Camry) and I do have a full size spare. The dealer wouldn't normally put the spare in the rotation and since I picked up a nail at only about 10K miles, I made the repaired tire the spare.

I just checked the manual and to my surprise, Toyota recommends a front to back/back to front pattern, not the front to back and back to opposite front I thought was the "standard" pattern for FWD vehicles. Learn something new every day.

I also learned yesterday to check the lug nut torque. My wife's Highlander had the tires rotated about 500 miles ago. I retorqued all the nuts yesterday and one was way undertorqued (the wrench rotated 1/8 turn before it clicked.) Didn't expect that either.

ruking1

Yes, I do 4 different models on 5 cars and while two of one model act similarly, each has its specific requirements. If this is a concern, it is good to go back. after a set # of miles with a torque wrench without jacking the vehicle again. I pretty much have the drill down to where the bolts did not need re torquing.

okko1

who knows? it is a tia recommendation. and something i do as a part of process. give me peace of mind or give me worry. :shades:

ruking1

Who knows about yours? Not me, because you didn't given any information; but I am sure you do.

obyone

What is the best torque wrench? digital from sears? snap on?

How often do you have them calibrated?

Just curios. For me I have 3/8 and 1/2 torque wrenches from snap on.

ruking1

To me this is on topic. You ain't lived until you or the tow trucker driver you called in the pouring rain with a flat tire, has to TRY to get off the lug nuts on a flat tire put on with a 1000# ft of torque impact tool. :sick:

The best torque wrench? There are literally gobs of products !!

Snap On? One of the best!! Almost across the product line!!

The good news: You even know what a torque wrench is!!!??? Better news: you are probably in a rarified population that even uses them!!! Some professional tire shops dont even use them!!!!

When I was in the nuclear business (34 years ago) , normally a yearly calibration. If it got dropped, damaged, or otherwise ill used: at need basis.

The best wider audience products wouuld be from Home Depot or Lowes (etc) as they offer a no questions ask exchange. Sears now has a 90 day? warranty.

ny540i6

I usually take my torque wrench with me when I know someone will be taking the wheels off, such as at my summer/winter wheel swap... I'm also anal enough that the bolts that hold my wheels on are specifically the ones that came with each set of wheels.

If the shop insists on using the impact wrench, with the torque sticks, I simply retorque them when I get home, then have a note to myself to check 'em after about 2 weeks.

I have a Craftsman and a Snap-on.

obyone

Does Sears offer recalibration? Obviously with Home Depot and Lowes you would probably have to submit them to the manufacturers but with Sears I'd think that they would offer the service through their service center.

ruking1

Googling indicates a firm maybe. Perhaps a call or visit to your local Sears Service Center would yield a better YES or NO!? Or ask the local Sears tire service folks who services their torque wrenches.

From what I have reviewed, the going (non Sears) price for these types of torque wrench calibrations is app 20 per.

okko1

O'Reilly's used to do them for a store i worked for and snappy can get them done.

obyone

Was looking at a friend's new $400 1/2" digital snap on torque wrench that does angles for stretch bolts. Simply fascinating how it measures the angles. Course it can still do rims.

ruking1

Way off topic but yes, the guy who did my TDI timing belt (many bolts that NEED exact torque and almost all at WEIRD angles) used that one!!

obyone

I was surprised how many vehicles today require it. Most head bolts on newer vehicles require that the used bolts be discarded once removed simply for this reason.

Back to topic. Anyone use those Kumho's as replacement for their stocks on a C5 or C6 vette? Just curious as though they aren't runflats they sure are cheap for the sizing and rating.

ruking1

On topic: No, but folks who I have talked to like them.

I have run NON run flats on a Z06 for 72,000 miles with a lot of cross country trips. I would not at this stage in its evolution get run flats.

obyone

performance oriented came with a tire patch kit and an air pump. That being the case should I switch to non runflats you have any suggestions on a pump as there are a myriad of pumps out there sold by checkers to now sears owned KMart?

ruking1

Would you believe I have never even used it, let alone get it out to test. I have not even had the vehicle on a flat bed!

If you have that so called "catastrophic" tire problem it is best to flat bed it anyway for a host of reasons. I have had three nails and drove the car each time into the tire place/s.

obyone

Guess it was about time I get a AAA membership anyway. While they have flat bed as an option on certain vehicles such as MB. I have had the car on a dolly. But that was due to that awesome feature on the vette called the steering column lock...lol!!

scmtzc

This may not be the right forum, but I am looking for a certain set of tires for my Jeep: They say Trail Guide R/T on them and model info is: M+S 31x10.50R15LT 109Q. If you have some or know were to find some, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

obyone

Try here:

Trailguide R/T

ruking1

..."The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates one-in-four cars and one-in-three light trucks and SUVs has one or more tires under-inflated by 8 pounds per square inch (psi) or more.

The Carnegie Mellon University Sustainable Earth Club studied 81 random vehicles in a parking lot and found that 80 of the 81 had under-inflated tires. The average rate of under-inflation was 20% -- soft tires, indeed.

The EPA estimates that for every 1 psi of under-inflation, fuel economy drops by 0.4%. That's not much, but if the tires are under-inflated by 8 pounds, that's a 3.2% drop in fuel economy. About 1.2 billion gallons of fuel are wasted annually due to under-inflated tires, the NHTSA estimated in 2005."...

link title

jipster

I have a set of Goodyear Tripletred 225/55/17" tires on my 2004 Mazda MPV. They seem to be losing about a couple pounds of air pressure every week. I took the van into Big O Tires a couple weeks ago. They tested the tire for a leak, not finding any they asked me if they were testing the correct tire. I told them yes, front drivers side. They went back out. Twenty minutes later they come in and say my van is ready. I'm like well... did you find the leak? The tech said something about some corrosion on the inner rim and they cleaned it out. Said they usually charge $27 for a 17" rim, but are charging me only $20.

Looks like they lined the inner tire where it meets the rim with some type of sealant. The van is still losing about 2 pounds a week. Any ideas? Take it back... take it somewhere else? Problem with the tire? Problem with the rim? Problem with the tech? Thanks.

kyfdx

The corrosion on the wheel is the most likely culprit..

Dismount the tires, and take a wire brush to the inside of the rims... Sometimes, the best solution is new alloys...

Crazy? Maybe, but sometimes that's what it takes..

stickguy

Or, save a bunch of money, and just add 2 pounds every Saturday. That isn't much to be low. More of an annoyance than anything else.

obyone

But the question is will it get worse over time? and how much time for it to get really worse? Corrosion is like a box of chocolates..... :shades:

jipster

Thanks for the comments kyfdx, stick, ob.one. I assume the tire tech wire brushed the inner rim when I initially took it in two weeks ago. The guy wasn't very articulate, and I had difficulty understanding his mumbled garb. I asked a couple times for him to explain exactly what was wrong.

My wife is insisting it is a valve stem though. Hopefully she will be right, and show us all up. As the jip will be a jip and put air in it every week, instead of spending $$$ for a new alloy wheel.

I'll take the van back into Big O Tires next week and have them take a look at it again, at no expense to the owner of course. In the mean time, I'm keeping a Sears battery powered air compressor in the backseat. :sick:

paisan

My wife is insisting it is a valve stem though. Hopefully she will be right, and show us all up. As the jip will be a jip and put air in it every week, instead of spending $$$ for a new alloy wheel.

I was going to say valve stem, that's the #2 reason for losing air (after a nail or what not in the tire).

-mike

imidazol97

I'm a do-it-yourselfer from way back, so I'd take out a bucket of warm water, liquid detergent, a and a sponge. I'd jack up the wheel and take it off. I'd put the water with detergent on the rim sides and just sit and watch while the bubbles from mushing the sponge on breakup to see new bubbles coming through. I'd put soapy water on the tread area with the tire upright and watch the same. I'd put water on the valve stem at the base and on the end with the cap off to see if the Schrader valve is leaking.

This is water they should have done at the tire store using a small rounded tub of water.

This can be done on the car if you can crawl under to watch the inside rim to check for bubbles.

OR you can fill your bathtub or a kiddie pool with water and put the wheel into it to watch for bubbles.

Easier might be to check with a dealer to see if they have a cure for the corrosion causing leaks---I'm assuming that's what you'll find. The dealer may do things the tire store guys won't.

I view the tire store guys like the quick oil change guys: often poorly trained and not broadly knowledgeable about all solutions. :sick: Sorry to some of the good tire store guys. I just had a tire rebalance (free) for my Michelins and the tire store/mechanical store was so interested in selling me $700 of brakes that would have cost me $160 for ceramic pads and rotors, the guy put the wheels on and one lugnut was at 40, 60, 80, 90, 100. And that was similar for most wheels. I think he was trying to warp the rotors since I obviously wasn't interested in letting them rip me for the low depth pads he found on the front. Oh, I put on new ceramic pads for $70. The rotors were not scored enough for their $129 each rotor replacements ($29.99 at Autozone) and there was enough depth for them to be turned, but I don't like that method.

jipster

Anyone happen to know the physics behind how a couple pounds of air pressure lost per week translates into bubbles per mnute? If I do the warm water/deteregent test to check for a leak, how long should I wait before expecting to see something?
If I'm only losing one air bubble per 20 minutes, and happen to blink.... could turn into a long day. :sick:

okko1

use dishsoap and a spray bottle. sometimes the tire will leak a little if the wrong balance weights are used. but the dishsoap should blow big bubbles and is much less mess.

imidazol97

I had a tire that made a small bubble and it took a while. It was a small wire like nail in the tread. Apparently when that part of the tread was down and the car parked, it leaked a little faster. The rest of the time the tire just went down very slowly. I did find the item seeing the air bubble in a bathtub! Yes, I had to clean the tube afterwards.

obyone

It's a good thing you don't drive a Hummer.

fmichael

While @ Costco I checked out what they carried for my Ford Edge P235/65/17...Seems as though they really push the Michelin brand (no problem with me - I happen to be a 'Michelin Man' kinda guy); what nearly knocked me off my feet was their price on the Michelin Latitude Tour HP $190 :surprise:

After browsing TireRack, & Discount Tire I see there are a number of options with a significant price range ie: $112 for BF Goodrich Traction TA (dunno if this tire would be appropriate), $117 Continental Cross Contact LX, $172 Michelin Cross Terrain SUV (also $190 @ Costco), $170 Michelin Latitude Tour HP, & $116 Cooper CS4 Touring (TireSavings.com)......Just curious for the $$$ - what's a good tire? Any suggestions since I plan on purchasing by winter?

obyone

At the tirerack site, for each tire and brand you've listed, there are customer survey results. What better way to evaluate than to have actual users rate the tires. I used to buy only Michelins but I have seen different tires rated higher and for less money. That's what I purchase now.

fmichael

My only concern is that I like the idea of purchasing tires that have been rated highly by those with a 1) vehicle similar to mine (crossover/suv), 2) tires with alot of miles on them (40,000 miles or more), & 3) driving conditions are the same (alot of hwy driving in snow/rain).

I know I'm getting a little anal here, but if I'm gonna fork out $190 plus per tire (if I go the Michelin route) - I really want to know that I'm getting a tire of very good quality...10 years ago I took the advice of 'Consumer Reports', & purchased Dunlop Radial Rover tires for my '93 Ford Ranger - worst tires ever!...That's why I'm particular, & wary of some survey results

obyone

I'm glad that was ten years ago. I don't know anyone who reads that mag anymore. :shades:

In those surveys at the far right column there is the total mileage for the results posted. If one tire received high ratings with only a couple of hundred thousand miles I'd say the sample size was too small. Some tires rate high with over 10 million miles. I'd say the sample size was pretty good. So far, the choices I have made outside of Michelins have not steered me wrong.

$190 a tire? Try shopping for tires for a vette. OEM replacements are $480 each.

fmichael

Michelin Cross Terrain SUV have ALOT of mileage input/surveys (tire must've been around since the early/mid 1990's - lots of happy posters)...Either way it's a tire that I'm kinda leaning towards (that, & the Cooper CS4 which I just had installed on my wife's CRV - so far so good).

$480 per tire for a Vette :surprise:

... 'bout time for that Prius

okko1

i don't think you will be happy with the mileage on the cross terrian. you might consider the pirelli scorpion.

jipster

My only concern is that I like the idea of purchasing tires that have been rated highly by those with a 1) vehicle similar to mine (crossover/suv),

You can select reviews based soley on the type of vehicle you drive at Tirerack.

A few members over at the MPVClub have tried the BFGoodrich T/A and really like them. Said they were very good in the rain and dry surfaces...o.k in snow.

fmichael

Gas mileage may suffer a bit with the Michelin Cross Terrain SUV - however there are alot of miles (over 42 million miles surveyed :surprise: ), & many happy campers when compared to the relatively unknown Pirelli Scorpion Zero Asimmetrico (just over 800,000 miles surveyed)...The Pirelli's just don't stack-up in bad weather when compared to the Michelins (I live in Wisconsin - alot of snow this past winter).

obyone

I've had the Cross Terrains before and no complaints and it does wear a little better than the LTX M/S.

sandman46

Have these on the wife's Mazda and they're excellent tires, wet or dry. Would highly recommend them.

The Sandman

stickguy

anyone know who sells this brand? My "new" COntour has 3 peerless GTs (look practically new) and 1 of some other brand (also pretty new). I am usually very anal about these things, and prefer all the tires to match, so if I could get it done cheap enough, I might get a new one that matchs.

Just can't figure out where they sell them!

kyfdx

I think that's a Bridgestone/Firestone brand.. Do you have Firestone stores in your area?

sandman46

Just did a google search and it seems Peerless tires are a Uniroyal house brand of tire. Try this yourself and read up on what I found.

The Sandman

obyone

I think you've mistaken Peerless Tyre for Peerless Tire which is manufactured by Bridgestone/Firestone.

Peerless Tire

sandman46

You are absolutely right...I did look at the wrong website. Thanks for correcting my faux pas.

The Sandman

gblrklr

Laurasdada,
I am looking to replace the very noisy Toyo proxes on my wife's RX330. How have the Versados worn for you? How is the noise level?

laurasdada

Hello: The Versados are on my Acura TL (do they make 'em for an RX?), not a lot of miles as I switched over to winter tires and just recently swithced back. But, so far, a quieter, smoother ride than the OEM Bridgestones. But, I think the Toyos are worse in the snow, hence the winter tires.

But, smooth and quiet. Can't yet comment on wear as they probably don't yet have 6k miles on 'em. Not as crisp a handler as the Bridgestones, but I'm not bothered by that. And, unfortunately, I'm no expert on tires, never thought about 'em until the poor snow performance of the TL.