Tires, tires, tires

daysailer

The mixed reports here about the MXV4 ARE confusing, particularly regarding wet performance. I found the performance in rain to be quite good on my MPV (215/65-15 MXV4 Energy). In fact, I was amazed that as I neared the wear bars, I was still finding them unusually good in the wet, and I am not a sedate driver. I would have bought another set if their transient response had been better.

jc1973

WHAT DO U GUYS THINK OF THE FUTURA LTE 70000MILE WARRANTY AND 4 FOR 169 SIZE 1956515 ARE THESE DECENT TIRES

beachnut

Can you enlighten this tire layman ... what do you mean by "transient response"? BTW, my search still continues. The new wheels for the MPV are a little beyond the reach of my pocketbook at the moment, so I'm back to shopping, and hey, I'm even starting to open up my closed-Michelin-mindedness, entertaining Yoko Avid and Dunlops

SC

corvette

I think that "transient" is a euphamism for change in direction. I have the MXV4 Plus' on my Jetta, and agree with daysailer's assessment. Have had them on for 40,000 miles and they still handle okay in the wet (not quite as good as new), and tread depth is about 5/32 front and rear.

gqlefty

I read in a AOL tire tip article that on rotating your tires keep the tires on the same side and just move the front to the back and back to front. The article said all that crossing stuff and changing sides was not necessary. What do you tire guys say !!! Thank for any help !!!!! { I have a rear-wheel drive}

lee1nyc

I have a front wheel drive '98 Intrepid ES. I have only done front to rear tire rotation. I never rotate the spare into the mix, and have gotten excellent wear from the original tires. I recently put on the Dunlop SP Sport A2's and plan on doing front to rear rotation with them too.

kens

With older radials it was once necessary to keep the rotation pattern front to back. This is no longer the case with today's tires unless you have directional tires.

Tires are rotated to even out wear and increase the treadlife of yout tires. Therefore, your rotation pattern should be dictated by the wear you're getting on your tires. A good tire shop should be able to suggest what pattern works best for your particular wear.

Ken

bretfraz

If you car is running on the OEM tires (the one's that came from the factory) then the manual should mention proper tire rotation. Your dealer can also answer this question as well as a competent tire dealer.

FWIW, I let my dealer handle rotate & balance. Just had it done last week; ran me $60.00. Expensive but I feel they'll do it right (correct wheel weights, proper torque specs, easy no-brainer job for them). Since I have all my servicing done at the dealer I can go back and raise Hell if they screw up. Only maintenance I do is the oil changes as I can do them for less than 1/2 their price.

daysailer

transient response refers to response to directional changes as corvette said. Otherwise called "turn-in" or slip angle. A tire with good transient response will generate a given lateral force with a lower slip angle than a tire of lesser response. (a rolling tire can only generate a lateral force when its plane of rotation is at an angle to its direction of travel). For a street tire, I consider transient response to be more important than ultimate lateral grip since the behavior of other drivers (and the occurance of other hazards) can be unpredictable, requiring sudden and unanticipated changes in direction.

beachnut

The reviews on Tirerack look promising. I'm comparing these to X-Ones. MXV4+s are no longer in my equation. The rain ratings appear to be as good, if not better, than the X. Lot's of decent consumer response, but the noise factor is mentioned quite often. Even read one person who said it turned his "nimble handling Accord into a yacht" (?). I'm sure this topic is a re-hash, but I'd appreciate any feedback. I've surfed back to about Feb., but can only take so much on this lousy 56K connection Thanks daysailer for the info!

SC

corvette

If you aren't experiencing any unusual vibration, you could just ask the dealer to rotate the tires instead of balance and rotate. The price is usually less than half, as they don't have to put each wheel on the balancing machine.

Also, to daysailer: Thanks for the excellent definition of transient response. It's one of those things I can understand but not explain.

anonymous02

I wouldn't trust the dealer to use a torque wrench unless it was specified, and then I'd still check. I trust my own work better than these guys, most of whom are high school dropouts.

nextmoon

I checked my OEM Firestone Affinity H/T tires yesterday with about 1000 miles on them. There were lots of good-sized rocks stuck in the treads (4-5 pieces per tire) varying in shapes from roundish to sharp-edged. How important is it to remove those rocks? My old set of Michelin MVX4's rarely get rocks in them.

branch15_5

I'm probably too late with the info, but I wanted to second what the others said about the Yoko Avid Touring. I put them on my Camry 5K miles ago. While the traction is decent, they are absolutely the quietest tires I have ever had. Whisper quiet.

I bought them from tirerack.com, which was a good experience. All said and done, I'm not sure how much I saved, but it was a pretty painless experience.

bretfraz

The primary reason I use the dealer for most all my servicing is that they are on the hook if I have a problem with something they did or was affected by their work. If I do alot of my own maintenance I have very little to stand on if there's a problem. If they do my maintenance I can go back and raise some hell. Leverage.

I ain't worried 'bout no college edumakashun neither. Don't need no fancy book learnin to read a torque spec and use a torque wrench. If'n they mess up mah wheels an' mah rotors, I kin go back and git ornery with them fellers. Ain't no big deal tuh me.

anonymous02

To me, it is not so much a matter of holding them accountable AFTER a problem, but avoiding it altogether in the first place. I know I can rely on myself over some unknown dufus. I would rather bet my life and my engine on my own ability rather than take a chance that someone else goof up and I can always "get even" later. It doesn't do me a fat lot of good when I am on a road trip or traveling 75 mph or out in the woods.

tientran

I suggest that we should follow rotation instruction in your car's manual. Each car has different weights on each location of the tires; Therefore, the manufacturers suggest different methods to rotate their cars.
Don't waste your money for rotation at an auto shop. Just do it yourself. Buy a torque wrench to get a right torque for your car. You can read in your car manual to know how much torque is applied for your car.

microrepair

You can make up your own mind on how much to trust the dealer mechanics after I tell you this short story.

Two years ago, my wife's car was making a clunking noise in the rear end after going over small abrupt changes in pavement height. Took car to dealer and asked them to check it out. Returned with "Nothing found".. Still made clunky noise; take car back 2 weeks later, insist on service writer taking a ride with me. Go down nearlby street and presto; "CLUNK".. "Oh yeah, I heard that. Sounds like the front strut." Yuh, right.. I insist that it is the REAR and after another bump and clunk, service writer agrees. So following week they replace the rear struts. Pick up car and clunk seems to be gone. Aha! Few days later clunk shows up again. Few more days go by and when I get home from work wife says she heard loud screeching noise when returning from shopping. I suspect brakes. I back car up about 2 feet and SLAM on the brakes. Pull it forward the 2 feet and then jack up the left rear, which is where noise is coming from. Support bracket going from frame to rear axle is SNAPPED in half..! Rear axle is FLOATING LOOSE !!
This is the original souce of the clunk. The bracket was flexing over those bumps and the IDIOT dealer ship mechanics replaced the struts and didn't see the bent bracket which was all of 8 inches from the strut ????? Give me a break....!!! If I had replaced the struts I certainly would have spotted the defective bracket. The car had to be towed to the dealership. And fortunately there was no accident due to the axle breaking free..
That is why, whenever possible, I do the work myself..

downeaster16

I just recently purchased a 2002 Camry LE. It came with T-rated Goodyear Integrity tires (size:205-65-15). Consumer Reports gave the Integritys a so-so rating in their last tire test (last November), saying that they were noisier than average on coarse pavement and showed poor braking ability on wet pavement without ABS. It's hard for me to compare noise levels as this Camry is new for me and designed to be a quiet car. I've only had the car for two weeks, and I haven't had the chance to drive the car in heavy rain, so I don't know how these tires do in wet conditions. Do any of you have experience with these Integritys?

If I decide to upgrade (and I am tempted to do so), I'd be looking for a tire that gives a quiet, smooth ride, has good wet and dry traction, and does reasonably well in snow (although I might opt for winter tires, probably Nokian Hakka Q's, when winter comes). Good handling is nice, but since I don't push my cars to the limit, I don't need excellent handling (if I did, I wouldn't own a Camry!). Long tread life is great, but having a comfortable tire with good all-season traction is more important to me.

I liked the Michelin MXV4 Energy Plus tires that were OEM on my '98 Accord, but I wonder if I can do as well for less money. One local tire dealer recommended BF Goodrich T/A Touring or T/A Control tires as being a good all-season choice. Another dealer recommended the Uniroyal Tiger Paw Touring HR. I did have Nokian NRW's after the Michelins. They were very good in many ways, but somewhat noisy in the 20-40 mph speed range. People in tirerack.com seem to really like the Dunlop SP Sport A2 and the Yokohama Avid Touring tires. Others recommend the Michelin X-One.

I'd appreciate any feedback you can give. Sorry if this turns out to be a rehash of any past discussions!

Thanks!

3dglasses

I have put Michelin X-Ones on both my vans (96 Grand Caravan SE and 95 Mercury Villager GS) and they are awesome! Quiet, good in Floridas heavy rain storms, and excellent wear (25k on one set and they look new). I just put them on my Villager and am getting a little less center feel than the previous tires. I guess I should expect that since I went from 205/75 to 215/70. Just had the alignment checked and it was perfect. The Villager always was a little 'light on center' so I'm still very happy! My wife (her van) doesn't notice it. (It is so much quieter that we are starting to notice other subtle wind/road noises) Definitely worth the money for me.
P.S. Plus I got a set of cool Motorola walkabout radios from Michelin.

jei

Downeaster16 -

I put Dunlop SP Sport A2s on a Subaru Forester this March and have been very satisfied. Very stable tires, with great grip on wet and dry weather. They handle snow and slush well for all season tires - Found out twice in late March in upstate NY after a mild winter. They have a firm, comfortable ride and are reasonably quiet. Worth looking into.

heng

Then BFG touring TAs are definitely not in the same league as the Michelin X-0nes or MXV4s. The BFGs have a numb steering response (at both initial turn in and pulling Gs). The wear is Ok for low end tires. They are not quiet (rumble on concrete roads). Overall, they are a decent tire in the low end of tires.

I've had a couple sets of MXV4 energy's and a couple sets of X-ones. MXV4s have an edge in the smooth ride dept but overall I prefer the X-ones which have the edge in wet/snow grip, handling response is about the same (although X-ones are crisper pulling Gs) and definitely better wear.

I recently saw the Dunlop SP sort A2 on a friend's car. Although JEI says they did well in snow and slush, I think his 4WD Sub was the difference. I'm from upstate NY too and the tread looks too tame for me. I wouldn't buy them based on that.

Uniroyals? I was never pleased with their products over the years (make that decades). I have their product now (OEM on a 4WD). Again they are a decent low end tire.

anonymous02

I need a 3 season tire for a 1996 VW Jetta.

Have dedicated snows for Thanksgiving thru now. (It snowed here yesterday in Massachusetts!)

Anyhow, looking for something in 195/60R14. Prefer a performance oriented tire, preferring good grip and longer life over high speed ratings. These are to replace the 195/55R14 Bridgestones currently on there.

Of course, I am looking for style as well, namely black and round. ;-P

Thanks in advance.

Possible candidates:
Sumitomo
Cooper
recommendations?

yurakm

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compare1.jsp?startIndex=0&width=195%2F&ratio=60&diameter=14&search=true&pagelen=20&pagenum=1&pagemark=1&performance=HPAS&performance=PAS

Personally, I like Firehawk SH-30 on my 98 Malibu. Performance oriented, and outstanding in rain / on wet pavement. I live in CT, with terrains and climate similar to MA.

anonymous02

I took your search selection, backtracked (picked all summer tires, no all seasons), and put in my size.

It came up with 4. Looks like the Sumitomo wins.

Too bad they don't have Cooper for comparison purposes.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compare1.jsp?startIndex=0&width=195%

 2F&ratio=60&diameter=14&search=true&pagelen=20&pag

enum=1&pagemark=1&performance=UHP&performance=HP&performance=GT&performance=C

anonymous02

got these 3:

Dunlop SP Sport A2

Firestone Firehawk SS20

Sumitomo HTR 200

(need to remove spaces from following URL for it to work)

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compare2.jsp? partNumber=&make=&model=&price=&width=&ratio=&diameter=&sortCode=&speedRating=&qty=&stockMessage=&ty pe=T&AddToUser=true&qty_96R4BZWS50_=4&qty_96R4AA_=4&qty_96R4UGICE_=4&qty_96TR4X1XSE2_=4&qty_96HR4RE9 50_=4&qty_96HR4XGT4_=4&qty_96TR4TLS_=4&qty_96HR4TLS_=4&qty_96HR4GA_=4&qty_96HR4376_=4&_96HR4A2_qty=4 &_96TR4FHSS20_qty=4&_96HR4HTR200_qty=4&removeIndex=3&_96TR4T4_qty=4&sortValue=10

anonymous02

looking back over the 3, I see the Firestone has a temperature rating of "B", so I will toss that one and go for either the Sumitomo or Dunlop.

(Isn't Sumitomo made by Dunlop, or vice versa?)

Anyhow, since they don't sell Sumitomo around here, I will at least have the price to compare. The Sumitomo come in a lot better on price (what was it, something like $38 versus $55 or so?). Now I will take that and compare to Coopers.

ian18

Does anyone have any comments about the Futura tires sold by Pep Boys? They are made by Cooper Tires and are very well priced. The two I am considering seem to be identical in appearance to the corresponding Cooper tires.

bretfraz

Sumitomo is partially owned by Goodyear, who completely owns Dunlop.

I have friends who've used them and said they were great for the price.

porknbeans

I used to have Cooper Cobras on my Altima and didn't have any problems with them. Perfomed well in wet and dry. They aren't great tires, but they are very good tires especially for the price.

rickmtb2

At least in the size my Maxima needed (215 55 16) and I called every Dunlop dealer in Houston to find out that the warehouses were empty, and it would take 6-8 weeks to get a set. Settled for the Bridgestone Potenzas RE950s, though I almost opted for the quieter Turanzas.

stever

You guys need to check out makeashorterlink.com. These long links are skewing the pages something fierce!

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

bretfraz

Too bad Web Crossing can't figure a way to parse them for us. VBB does this automatically.

I know its better than it used to be but sometimes WebX feels like a high school h4x0r project.

stever

Let's ask the 3l33t users to send Feedback ;-) - maybe it's already on the bug list?

5t3v3
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

futbolref

I recently purchased a '98 Accord Ex Coupe V6 with automatic. The wheels are
original factory and 16". Tires are 205/60/16. Although the front tires are both
Michelin and have 40-50% tread life remaining, the two rear tires are Bridgstone
and need to be replaced shortly.

My question is: I have been told that Dunlap, Bridgstone, Goodyear, and Michelin
all have tires in this size.

Any comments or experiences regarding these tires for this car? Driving will be
15K-20K per year. Mix will be 25% intown and 75% highway (from Kentucky
through the Appalachian Mtns. to the coast.

Should I spring for 4 new tires? Should I go for the best tires right now even if that
means only 2 tires now and 2 tires next summer?

Money is a concern since I also need to replace the timing belt right away (present one has over 100K miles) and evidently the 02 sensors because the "ENG" symbol is lit.

Suggestions will be read, analyzed, and appreciated!

Thanks.

hpulley4

Seems like someone else agrees with you ;-):

Interview of Sam Michael, Chief Operations Engineer of WilliamsF1 - 22.05.2002

Q: What would be the perfect tire look like in your opinion?

A: BLACK AND ROUND?

Taken from http://www.michelinf1.com/servlet/srt/f1/newscenter?key=27657

nygreg

For me safety is always the top priority. Based on that, I would replace all four. To save money, I would order from tirerack.com or tire.com and have them installed at Costco (or similar) provided there is one near you. I outfitted my Sienna with Yokohama Aegis LS4s last fall and it cost me about $250 total. Yokohamas are good tires at a good price. Depending on your driving needs (snow?) there are several tires that will work for you. Check out Tirerack.com which has customer reviews. I should receive my new Dunlop Sport A2s for my Outback tomorrow and will have them installed at Costco for $11/tire.

Greg

bretfraz

I did some checking and found several (but not many) tires in that size for you.

Interestingly, the only Michelin in 205/60-16 is the Energy MXV4 Plus, which is great but expensive.

The Dunlop SP Sport A2 comes in that size and would be a good choice but maybe not the best in snow/ice.

Yokohama and Bridgestone make a few in that size but their rep isn't the best in winter conditions. If you lived further south then they'd be great.

Y'know what I like? Cooper Lifeliner Touring SLE. They always seem to perform well in 4 season driving, reasonably priced, available in your size, 50K treadlife warranty. That's my suggestion for you based on your stated needs.

Hope this helps.

ctdrice

How do you like the yokohama Ageis LS4s? How is the traction and noise level? Why did you choose those over others (like the Sport A2s for your outback)

Thanks

nygreg

I wanted a tire that was considered good in snow and respectable all around. These tires were recommended by Tirerack and colleagues. It turns out that Consumer Reports rated them highly (the days following my order!). The Goodrich M65s also rated good, but, were not available in my size. So far I like the tires. They are a little noisier that the OEM Firestone Affinities, especially on course pavement. Handling is better. They tend to follow ruts in the pavement, but, track better. Snow performance is much better than the Firestones. Kinda neat, my inclined driveway was covered with snow/ice and my sister-in-law was over with the same year Sienna with stock tires and good tread. Pulling out, her Sienna had problems getting up the driveway and ours with the new Yokos had no problem or slippage at all. Drove to Disney with these tires new and they performed great. Wear? Well, judging by the wear to date I would expect around 35 - 40K on the life of these tires. Not great, but, given the performance and price and the fact that they are running on a minivan it is a good value. The Dunlop Sport A2s did not pop up on the radar then (size?).

Sorry for the long post,
Greg

corvette

According to Tire Rack, a popular tire for your car is the Yokohama Avid H4:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/yokohama/yo_avidh4.jsp

High performance, below average snow traction, and they have a 45,000 mile warranty. $60 each in 205/60R16. If your back tires are significantly more worn than the front, use extreme caution in rain or other slippery conditions until you get them replaced. The back tires will have less traction than the front, which can produce oversteer when cornering. That said, I would replace all four tires.

nygreg

I agree with Corvette. The Avid V4s were recommended to me for my Outback if I were to use a dedicated snow tire for winter.

Greg

toddar

I have a '00 Volvo S80 T-6. I have gotten 37K from the Michelin Pilot 225/50/17's but would like something with a little better ride and possibly wear. As you may know, there are not a lot of tires in the 225/50/17 size. Three questions:

1. What do you think of the using the alternate size 235/45/17's because there is a better selection from which to choose and more competitive pricing (I know Volvo is strict about only the 225/50/17 and 225/55/16 as options)?

2. Which is a better option (looking at drive quality only and excluding pricing considerations), the 225/55/16's or the 235/45/17's?

3. Considering my preferences and the answers to 1 & 2, what tires would you recommend?

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Those original tires are beginning to look at little war torn and the car is getting inspected in a month (AKA I need to do something fast).

THANKS!!!!!

bretfraz

Hmmm....kind of a tough one here. You're right - not too much to choose from with 225/50-17. If you want to keep the OE size then I'd suggest replacing them with the OE tire (Michelin Pilot MXM?). That way the tire performance will match the suspension and steering/braking capabilities.

Yeah, you can go to 235/45-17 but the ride will be worse if anything. 45 series tire means shorter sidewall which means rougher ride. But at least you have a big selection. Oh, and the shorter tire will throw off the speedo a bit.

16" tires will offer a better ride quality as the sidewall get taller (more absorbent). But you will need to switch to 16" wheels too. Lots of "luxury touring" to choose from in 16".

If you were going 235/45-167 and wanted smooth and quiet, I'd recommend Yokohama AVS dB. Here's Tire Rack's comments:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/yokohama/yo_avs_db.jsp

morin2

Getting close to replacing the OE tires on my wife's 2000 Mazda MPV. Original tires are Yokohama 376 size 205/65R15 load index rated 94, speed S, UTQG 200, A,B. Tires have 19K miles on them & 3/32 tread left despite gentle driving.

Most replacements are 92 load rated (1389 lbs/tire). Should I stick to 94 load (1477 lbs) ? Van is full with 6-7 adults/kids only 1-2 times/year, otherwise its just 3 people weighing 320 pounds + soccer gear and never used for towing.

Do other Yokohamas wear quickly or is this just "minivan wear" combined with low tread rating? Looking for rain performance with occasional snow all-season tires (so. MD).
Anybody use Bridgestone BT70s or BFG Control T/A M80 or M65 on an MPV ? Any recommendations? Aquatred 3?

morin2

yes, I rotated these tires,
yes, I check tire pressure on every tire every weekend (have done this for 30+ years),
yes, I've gotten 100K miles on a set of tires properly inflated and rotated (no, not on a minivan!)

ruking1

#1444 & 1445

First, the mini van design is know to wear tires prematurely or faster than passenger cars or even suvs. Second, the UTOG rating of 200 will wear twice as fast as one of 400, so just a switch to a 400 UTOG, i.e. in your case will probably double your mileage to 40k. I have Michelin tires on my suvs and have used Michelin tires for in excess of 600-700 k miles. They are one brand I am satified with in terms of longevity. (actually in most operating parameters but I am addressing your longevity issue.)

bretfraz

Just a brief reminder that when comparing UTQG's, only do so within the same tire brand. UTQG's are not comparable between brands. It's a loophole tire mfr's are allowed to jump thru courtesy of your federal gov't.

Re: MPV tires, you may want to read a bunch of posts in the MPV threads over in "Minivans" section of TH. I'm sure its been discussed there. But 19K out of a set of tires is pathetic.

IIRC, one of our hosts has BFG Control T/A's on his minivan and loves 'em. Aquatread 3, Michelin X-One, Yoko Avid Touring, Pirelli P400 Touring, even Toyo Ultra 800 would all be good choices for you.

stever

fwiw, I'm happy with the Michelin X Radial Plus (Costco's X-One clone) on my Quest.

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

morin2

Looks like the Michelin X-One (or Radial Plus) or one of the BFG's (M65 or M80) heads this list. I have had 3 sets of BFG all-terrain T/A's & loved them.

Yokohama didn't win over new customers ("fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...") with these OE "376" tires; others on the MPV boards have gotten even fewer miles out of them than our 19K. Our driving is 95% on an excellent highway, no stop&go & little braking. Actually, they've never hit a pothole, so I expected slightly better, even though treadwear was only 200. At least they wore out evenly, which says more about the suspension. My wife must be one of the last drivers who observe speed limits and drives this van as gently as her first new car - a '79 Mazda GLC wagon (rwd) and she got 100K miles on those original (Bridgestone) tires.