anon, I'm surprised that you are so surprised that people select tires at least partially based upon looks. Why do people buy alloy wheels? Not because they are lighter in most cases, but because steel wheels with covers are said to be ugly. Why do most people want rear disc brakes? They think they look better when seen through said alloy wheels. Never mind that your average driver of a small FWD vehicle doesn't need 4-wheel discs. Dual exhausts are usually a total waste, as are the big useless chrome pipes added around the smaller real pipes. Many people 'wear' their cars, and that includes the tires.
I always bought tires for performance. I have had sports cars that had 4 wheel disks brakes and alloy wheels. I thought lighter wheels makes for less unsprung weight and ultimately better handling. Now I find out I had it wrong. So, what tires and wheels are currently in vogue ?
"I always bought tires for performance. I have had sports cars that had 4 wheel disks brakes and alloy wheels. I thought lighter wheels makes for less unsprung weight and ultimately better handling. Now I find out I had it wrong. So, what tires and wheels are currently in vogue ? "
I think it is mostly an EYE CANDY thing and for me at least a catch 22.
If you go and check out folks who do performance racing you will be surprised to find that most performance tires are 15 in/16 in. The 17/18 in size are marginally performance related. When you get into the 19/20/21 range you are talking mainly show and oh by the way it does go.
This is not to say that unsprung weight , ergo leads to better performance and handling, but the truth is that it is so marginal as to be idiotic. You can check this thus: given the same style and materials does a 15 inch wheel and tire combo weigh less or more than a 16/17/18 in wheel and tire combo? And which handles better?
There is not a thing wrong with EYE CANDY, but trying to justify the performance bang for the buck is really a fruitless exercise
"#1298 of 1302 watchman by bretfraz Apr 02, 2002 (07:01 am)
Just remember that you cannot directly compare UTQG's from brand to brand. You can only compare UTQG's within a specific brand."
Perhaps I misunderstand the utility of a standard then? The whole idea of a UTOG is so you can directly measure or extrapolate tread life agains an objective measure (baseline). If I understand what you are saying: is that if the Michelins have a utog of say 400 and the Bridgestones have a utog of 380, that you can not reasonably extrapolate that all things being equal the michelins probably last a tad bit longer?
(given all the what ifs and wherefores and recalls ad nauseum?)
The utog ratings were conceived and continue to be refined strictly so that this can be done by the average consumer.
You wrote: if the Michelins have a utog of say 400 and the Bridgestones have a utog of 380, that you can not reasonably extrapolate that all things being equal the michelins probably last a tad bit longer
each manufacturer tests its tires "following government guidelines". According, UTOG numbers are good only as "guidelines" when comparing tires by different manufacturers. However, inside the same brand the benchmark is much more precise.
I hear what you are saying and for that reason it is no wonder that Michelin has beaten almost everyone to the baseline almost in every tire category. I know for example that I can get on a Michelin utog rating of 400 in excess of 75-90 k on a set of LTX's and far less than that with Bridgestones. I think as a tire manufacturer if you chose the low road, at some point it shows. Firestone has done that and it is also threatening to bring down Bridgestone. (the parent co)
Anyone have comparative tire dimensions? It might turn out that the sidewall to tread width ratio is not so different. Certainly the carcass design is very different (for racing) and therefore they don't need to resort to mounting rubber bands on rims.
Race cars although very light in most cases, do generate huge dynamic loads way out of proportion to street vehicles. Example: Formula 1 and Indy cars generate hundreds if not over a 1 thousand pounds of down force.
These loads have to be supported by the tires. And the air volume at a pressure is what supports these loads. Remember tires are just balloons. Hence the basic size of F1 tires are huge for the 1700 lb (?) weight of the vehicle. So the need to have a certain volume of pressuized air to handle the dynamic loads may limit how short they can go with the tire sidewalls.
Hello, I am considering getting a set of Cooper Lifeliner Touring SLE (H rated) to replace OEM Goodyear RSA's on my Intrigue. Does anyone have any experience with these tires or Cooper tires in general?
I have a question regarding tires on the 2002 Altima 3.5's. The Nissan website and literature says that on the 5 sp. they are supposed to be P215/55VR17 V-rated Tires and on the Automatic they are supposed to be P215/55HR17 H-rated Tires.
I just went to a nearby dealer and had a peek, and both the auto and the manual had R rated tires, which bummed me out, I did not see the H or the V. so Nissan is playing a switcheroo. Is there anything I can do if/when my car arrives w/ the R's, do I have any recourse? I saw the Nissan website states that it can change any specs without notice, so I'm guessing not.
We've had good experience with the Lifeliner series on a Subaru Legacy. They're a good value and wear well. Handling is OK in wet and dry. They're not the greatest in ice and snow but will get you by. We have also used the Weather Master XGR winter tires and have been very happy with their handlng and wear. We have a very good tire & suspension shop which specializes in Cooper, which has also been a plus. My feeling is that Cooper offers very good value for the price, even if they're not at the "cutting edge" of performance. Good luck.
>>>just went to a nearby dealer and had a peek, and both the auto and the manual had R rated tires, which bummed me out, I did not see the H or the V. so Nissan is playing a switcheroo. Is there anything I can do if/when my car arrives w/ the R's, do I have any recourse? I saw the Nissan website states that it can change any specs without notice, so I'm guessing not. Whaddaya think? <<<<
I think u need a pair of new glasses;) just kidding.
The R stands for Radial Tires. To find out whether it is H or V rated, read the tire sidewall more carefully.... u will find it..
I put a set of Cooper Cobras on my Altima and really liked them. I also put a set of Cooper Lifeliners on another Altima and was pleasantly surprised at how good they were. Like jei stated, a very good tire for the price. I feel very comfortable in recommending them to you.
Porknbeans
Grand High Poobah The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Look at the digits following the tire size and it will tell you the load rating and speed rating. Tires no longer show "P225/60VR-16". It's more like "P225/60R-16 97V". The 97V part is the load and speed rating.
Also mfr's tend to make slight changes as supplies warrant. Maybe Bridgestone is offering a lower price to Nissan on H rated tires this month or Nissan ran out of V rated tires and subbed the H rated for a few thousand units. If the speed rating is critical to you (and it should be) then the dealer should be willing to swap tires from another Altima to make a deal.
Can anyone suggest good tires for a Toyota Sequoia? We have Bridgestone Winter Duelers (love 'em!) for winter, so we don't necessarily need an all-season tire, it can be a dedicated summer tire. We drive about half on dirt/mud and the other half on pavement.
Thought that I would point out that at a given air pressure you have the same amount of rubber hitting the road no matter what size tire you have (within reason/without reinforced sidewalls). The shape of the contact patch is what changes not the size.
For example if you have a 3,000 lb car and 30 lbs of pressure per square inch. each inch supports 30 lbs so you have 100 sq inches of rubber hittng the ground, or 25 sq inches per tire.
Generally you find the H/T models come OE on various trucks and SUV's. For example, my Infiniti QX4 came with Dueler H/T's. It seems that Bridgestone has positioned the H/L as the aftermarket replacement tire, hence the greater availability at retail.
Although both are different tires, I think either will work well. Tire Rack has some commentary on them and don't forget to check out the Bridgestone website. Make sure the tires you're shopping for are available in the size you want. Again, since the H/L is sorta the aftermarket tire, I think it comes in a wider size selection compared to the H/T, which usually comes in OE sizes per application.
I, too, have been looking at tires and have it down to Dueler HL or the Michelin Cross-Terrain SUV. Right now I’m leaning toward the Michelins because I can get them about $40 less (installed, hazard warranty and tax) for a set of four than the Dueler HL tires. Tire Rack rates the Michelins a bit higher than the Dueler HL.
4 - Duelers for 255-70-16 - $640 4 - Michelin Cross Terrain SUV 255-70-16 - $600
just bought a set of sears gaurdsman 40 tires 195 65 15 for 150 with mounting and balancing who makes these tires for them i know they dont have a very high speed rating and the handling isnt as good as the eagle gt that were on it but was wondering if anyone has any experiance with these tires
I believe that one of the tires you were looking was the Bridgestone Dueler HL. Yesterday I posted this:
********* I, too, have been looking at tires and have it down to Dueler HL or the Michelin Cross-Terrain SUV. Right now I’m leaning toward the Michelins because I can get them about $40 less (installed, hazard warranty and tax) for a set of four than the Dueler HL tires. Tire Rack rates the Michelins a bit higher than the Dueler HL.
4 - Duelers for 255-70-16 - $640 4 - Michelin Cross Terrain SUV 255-70-16 - $600 *********
I don't know if your price sensitive but I saw an advertisement today that Firestone/Bridgestone has a promotion on (4/12 to 4/14) that you buy 3 tires and get 4. I just re-priced the Dueler HL and the installed, hazard warranty and tax is now $510 vs. the $640 I posted yesterday. So now I’m leaning toward the Dueler HL tires rather than the Michelins.
IMO, the Dueler HL is a better tire than the Dueler HT. Both are good looking tires, but for a unbiased comparison - go to tirerack.com. The Cross Terrain SUV beats both in almost all tests. However, the SUV can be more expensive.
The SUV also has a sidewall that doesn't turn brown between washings. Check the Michelin site for more information on them. I've had the SUVs for a year (18,000 miles) and like them. I traded in the Dueler HTs that came on my Highlander. I might've kept the OEM tires if they had been the HLs.
However, I've never been a Firestone fan and Bridgestone owns Firestone. My Dad had the Firestone 500's (mid-70's) and I owned a '00 Explorer with the Firestone exploder tires.
I looked at Tire Rack and found no tests or unbiased comparisons of the Michelin Cross Terrain and the Bridgestone Dueler H/L. Tire Rack does have an online survey that consumers can use to post their comments and opinions on a specific tire, but that's the diametric opposite of "unbiased comparison".
The closest thing an average person can get to unbiased testing is Consumer Reports. IIRC, CR ranked the Dueler H/L at or near the top of their latest SUV tire test. Once I find that issue I'll post more info.
If you have links or additional info that TH members can access to expand their knowledge, please post them and let us do our own research. I am building a database of tire info and would like to have access to those tests you mention.
And as for browning, while Michelin has made some improvements to the carbon black used in some of their tires, it can be avoided by cleaning the tires each time you wash your vehicle. I use Eagle One Tire Cleaner and a nylon brush every single time I wash. I follow up with a water-based protectant that has UV inhibitors to protect the sidewall and keep it looking good. I've been a detailer for over 20 years and virtually all "brown" tires I've seen have been caused by owners not cleaning tires and using too much protectant; usually the bad kind that has silicone oil in it.
Had four Dunlop Sport A2 tires mounted by Toyota dealer. One was mounted with the orange dot facing out, and the inscription on the tire saying "Mount this side IN" on the outside. Didn't notice that till a day later, and of course there is no one there on Sunday. And Monday is a work day ... not one I can take off. So .. my question is ... can driving the 50 mile round trip to work one day cause damage to that tire? The earliest I can get in is tomorrow evening. Also, does anyone think it necessary to insist on a NEW replacement tire for the backwards mounted one? And would another alignment be required? Thanks for any input on this matter.
The Tirerack user surveys are biased. However, the Consumer Report reliability data (for cars, not tires) are not better.
In addition to surveys, both Tirerack and Consumer Report are testing tires, but only selected models. The tirerack surveys cover, probably, 5 times more models.
As well as I remember, the both Tirerack and CR are testing only new tires. However, some tires deteriorate substantially when worn out 50% or so, while other hold better. User surveys are reflecting the wear.
I believe, that the best would be to use all information available - tests, user surveys, the manufacturer description and specs, etc.
Hi, In the next few months I am going to have to replace the tires on my 2000 Honda CR-V.
Has anyone tried the Yokohama Aegis passenger tires? Consumer reports and tirerack.com both rate them highly for handling and traction (wet and snow) as well as low noise. Are they as good as CR suggests? I am looking more for highway / commuting tires and not off-road tires. Thanks
What better unbiased report can a market test than what real people experience? This is what Consumer reports does: asks the users. We then summarize our real world experience with products. There are 100's of thousands of "us". Unbiased? Are some critics too close to enthusiastic manufacturers? Reliabability truth comes close to reality by actual user accounts. Always some error, some bias. Remember, it is we who use and pay for reliability. We have no allegiance or financial deal or anything to do with a maker...nothing. It is why we buy what works. "I'm a Ford man." "Buy American." Give us a break. Capitalism is a free market.Besides, most Honda, Toyota, Subarus are more United States produced than say GM, Chrysler, Ford. More vital, their quality is better. That's what sells. And the Bridgestone Duelers: MY OEM tires were down to the wear marks at 25K. My Duelers were unsafe on snow, ice, slush, cold rain WHEN NEW. Anecdotal yes. Real yes.Ask the buyers.
ian18 ... Got our answer from Dunlop on the phone this morning. The tires are set that way to take advantage of their tread design. No damage would occur to the tire mounted reversed, it just wouldn't perform as designed according to Dunlop. It just requires re-mounting and re-balancing the incorrectly mounted wheel. Will answer your question this evening from home when I can copy/paste last night's answer which didn't get posted due to problems on the board. In fact, could hardly get around this entire Town Hall site yesterday evening.
Tidester- Consumer Reports mails out a survey once per year to all who subscribe to the magazine. It asks about ones car maintenance history that is used in the annual "Auto" issue plus other topics such as TV's, appliances, etc. I do not recall any questions on tires in the past 10 years or so. The tire reviews I have seen have been based on their own testing.
I believe that Consumer Reports is totally unbiased and does a great job. I don't see how anyone would be able to "stuff" the ballot box.
CR may be unbiased but it occurs to me that an unscrupulous group of people or company could "mass subscribe" with the intention of responding to those questionaires either in favor of or against a partcular product. But then, maybe I've been watching too much politics on C-SPAN! ;-)
ian18 ... So far, after one day with them ... I like them, as does my wife. She did most of the research ... Tirerack.com, epinions.com, calling local Toyota and tire dealers and questioning them extensively on the two available choices and asking if anything else would fit what we were looking for. The only alternative choice for our Solara, was the Michelin Energy MXV4. We were looking for a Performance rated tire, good quality, long lasting, road hugging. Michelin's other option which fit the bill, the Pilot XGTH4, doesn't come in the 205/60-16 size that we were looking for. All avenues rated the Dunlop as longer lasting, better road handling, and yet cheaper ... the latter not affecting our choice really as we felt safety and performance were the main goal, not pricing. The dealer Bridgestone Potenza's had to go as everything we read about them was scary ... not holding the road wet or dry, short lifetime, etc. So far, we have both noticed a difference in handling, feeling the road a bit more through the steering wheel, feeling more responsive as opposed to the Potenza floating sensation. Road noise ... negligible, no worse than the Potenza's. This was on a couple of California freeways with a mix of smooth road, wavy non-skid roadway, and old and new pavement, with the radio/stereo OFF. The Solara is a very quiet, smooth riding car to start. We like the look of them as opposed to the Michelin's, beefier looking, a more aggressive looking tread. So far we are happy with our choice. Wish I could say the same for the dealer who put them on :-) I never noticed before that there was an inside and outside to tires. Other than the red dot for match mounting high/low spot tire/rim, and the molded "Mount this side in", the tire looks the same as the others. Of course we didn't notice that statement until today, a day too late.
As a bonus of being a day late, I got to try them in the rain ... an unusual event here in southern California :-) On the freeway, doing 65 in the rain, I felt quite comfortable and confident in the ability of the tires to hold the road. In fact, it felt no different than driving when dry, a good bit of road-feel, though not over-powering. Toyota kept someone around late to re-mount the tire. Very nice of them, even though it took a direct call to the service manager to accomplish that, it took no heavy handed tactics though. He owed up to it being their error after a short explanation of what transpired.
I put the Dunlop SP Sport A2's on my 98 Intrepid ES three weeks ago, and they're really super tires. Quiet, good road feel, amd good cornering are a major cut above the Goodyear GA's that came as OEM. I also like the higher inflation maximum (as discussed on this thread about 30 messages ago), which lets me inflate the 225-60-16's to 35 psi. The max is 44 psi.
I read about this "mount this side in" just now at 5 in the morning, so I haven't checked the tires themselves to see if they're on properly. My question is, doesn't the design of the sidewall have a distinct inside and outside? Is the serrated sidewall design on both sides of the tire?
Disneynut - Thanks for the detailed review of the tires. You have answered all my questions, especially the lingering one regarding road noise.
It's a pretty sure bet that I will get these, likely from Discount Tire. Has anyone here dealt with them? Firestone totally pissed me off last week when they told me that to qualify for the tread wear warranty, I would have to have a wheel alignment done twice per year!
lee1nyc, that is the strange part ... the tires are symetrical, both sides off center being the same tread-wise. Also, there is no "left-hand" or "right-hand" tire. So the red mounting indicator dot which is on the inside of the tire, would mean the tire is turned around for mounting on opposite sides, the tire spinning the opposite direction. It would then appear that it does not really matter which way the tire is initially installed. The "mount this side in" though would ensure that the tire was re-mounted the same way in future re-mountings if removed from the rim for any reason ... such as properly fixing a flat from the inside-out, snow tire mounting during winter, etc. Using the rotation of front to back same side would keep the tires rolling the same direction, which I understand is more important once the belts have set to the direction the tire is rolling. Dunlop lists two means of rotation, the standard X with right rear to left front, etc.; and an alternate method of same side front to back which makes more sense. The front to back also fits more in line with their inside/outside mounting, as well as keeping the tires and belts rolling in the same direction throughout their lifetime.
On the outside, the SP Sport A2 molds an innovative dual-phase tread compound into a mildly asymmetric tread design that features outside shoulder blocks with minimal siping to enhance steering response and cornering stability while the inside shoulder blocks feature more sipes to provide the additional biting edges to aid traction in foul weather.
The "mount this side in" mark is there for a reason. Probably not as crucial as ultra high performance asymmetric tires, but I would imagine it makes a difference.
kens ... had to run down and take a quick look at the tires on that one ... and you, and they, are correct ... the tires are not symmetrical after all ... not by much, but different just the same. I didn't look at the fine features as I did just now when being told otherwise. The inner blocks have 3 sipes each, the outter blocks vary with some having 2 and others 3 sipes, the 3rd sipe on the outters being very slight in the center of the block. "mildly asymmetric tread design" is not an understatement ... mild enough to be un-noticeable at a quick or unknowing glance. Thanks for the correction on that, now I feel like I know a little more about the new tires on my car.
lee1nyc ... sorry, misread your question. The design of the actual sidewall looks the same with the exception of the statements "mount this side" ... one ending with "out" the other ending with "in". The other difference is the red match mounting dot being on the inside sidewall only. Both sides appear to have the same info fromn what we remember. Can't look to verify that now as the tire has been correctly re-mounted.
lee1nyc, Cast Member no, not yet. It is my dream retirement job though ... conductor on the Disneyland Railroad ... but that's a decade or so away. Premium Annual Passholder yes, and make good use of it. Talking to a supervisor here, who was involved in auto racing ... I would tend to lean towards the front - rear same side theory, rather than the X pattern. The way he explained it was that the belts do tend to shape by the direction of spin. He said keeping the spin in the same direction would be best for the longevity of radial tires. I trust him.
got it... thanks. Will keep the rotation on my '98 Dodge Intrepid ES front to back.
Truth be told about Disney; they aren't the best company to be working for. I am in Engineering with ABC, and since Disney came along and bought the shop, it hasn't been the magic kingdom everyone was expecting. Fortunately we raised a stink when they wanted us to wear "mouse ears" around the studios.
Comments
Now I find out I had it wrong. So, what tires and wheels are currently in vogue ?
"I always bought tires for performance. I have had sports cars that had 4 wheel disks brakes and alloy wheels. I thought lighter wheels makes for less unsprung weight and ultimately better handling.
Now I find out I had it wrong. So, what tires and wheels are currently in vogue ? "
I think it is mostly an EYE CANDY thing and for me at least a catch 22.
If you go and check out folks who do performance racing you will be surprised to find that most performance tires are 15 in/16 in. The 17/18 in size are marginally performance related. When you get into the 19/20/21 range you are talking mainly show and oh by the way it does go.
This is not to say that unsprung weight , ergo leads to better performance and handling, but the truth is that it is so marginal as to be idiotic. You can check this thus: given the same style and materials does a 15 inch wheel and tire combo weigh less or more than a 16/17/18 in wheel and tire combo? And which handles better?
There is not a thing wrong with EYE CANDY, but trying to justify the performance bang for the buck is really a fruitless exercise
Just remember that you cannot directly compare UTQG's from brand to brand. You can only compare UTQG's within a specific brand."
Perhaps I misunderstand the utility of a standard then? The whole idea of a UTOG is so you can directly measure or extrapolate tread life agains an objective measure (baseline). If I understand what you are saying: is that if the Michelins have a utog of say 400 and the Bridgestones have a utog of 380, that you can not reasonably extrapolate that all things being equal the michelins probably last a tad bit longer?
(given all the what ifs and wherefores and recalls ad nauseum?)
The utog ratings were conceived and continue to be refined strictly so that this can be done by the average consumer.
Yes, exactly. Unfortunately.
According to Tirerack:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/utqg.htm
each manufacturer tests its tires "following government guidelines". According, UTOG numbers are good only as "guidelines" when comparing tires by different manufacturers. However, inside the same brand the benchmark is much more precise.
I hear what you are saying and for that reason it is no wonder that Michelin has beaten almost everyone to the baseline almost in every tire category. I know for example that I can get on a Michelin utog rating of 400 in excess of 75-90 k on a set of LTX's and far less than that with Bridgestones. I think as a tire manufacturer if you chose the low road, at some point it shows. Firestone has done that and it is also threatening to bring down Bridgestone. (the parent co)
take one look at the Formula 1 / Grand prix cars.
They have such big sidewalls and they do 200mph or more with more than 1.5g.
NOT!
Anyone have comparative tire dimensions? It might turn out that the sidewall to tread width ratio is not so different. Certainly the carcass design is very different (for racing) and therefore they don't need to resort to mounting rubber bands on rims.
These loads have to be supported by the tires. And the air volume at a pressure is what supports these loads. Remember tires are just balloons. Hence the basic size of F1 tires are huge for the 1700 lb (?) weight of the vehicle. So the need to have a certain volume of pressuized air to handle the dynamic loads may limit how short they can go with the tire sidewalls.
I just went to a nearby dealer and had a peek, and both the auto and the manual had R rated tires, which bummed me out, I did not see the H or the V. so Nissan is playing a switcheroo. Is there anything I can do if/when my car arrives w/ the R's, do I have any recourse? I saw the Nissan website states that it can change any specs without notice, so I'm guessing not.
Whaddaya think?
Whaddaya think? <<<<
I think u need a pair of new glasses;) just kidding.
The R stands for Radial Tires.
To find out whether it is H or V rated, read the tire sidewall more carefully.... u will find it..
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Also mfr's tend to make slight changes as supplies warrant. Maybe Bridgestone is offering a lower price to Nissan on H rated tires this month or Nissan ran out of V rated tires and subbed the H rated for a few thousand units. If the speed rating is critical to you (and it should be) then the dealer should be willing to swap tires from another Altima to make a deal.
Thanks!
--RobynK
For example if you have a 3,000 lb car and 30 lbs of pressure per square inch. each inch supports 30 lbs so you have 100 sq inches of rubber hittng the ground, or 25 sq inches per tire.
Any recommendations?
They look great! Round and black, just like all tires.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Kelly Safari
Yokohama Geolander HT
Bridgestone Dueler H/T
(I've found CR ratings on the Dueler A/T and H/L but not H/T -- is that an inferior tire to the H/L?)
Any preferences among those?
Thanks in advance!
--RobynK
Although both are different tires, I think either will work well. Tire Rack has some commentary on them and don't forget to check out the Bridgestone website. Make sure the tires you're shopping for are available in the size you want. Again, since the H/L is sorta the aftermarket tire, I think it comes in a wider size selection compared to the H/T, which usually comes in OE sizes per application.
4 - Duelers for 255-70-16 - $640
4 - Michelin Cross Terrain SUV 255-70-16 - $600
Good Luck!
I believe that one of the tires you were looking was the Bridgestone Dueler HL. Yesterday I posted this:
*********
I, too, have been looking at tires and have it down to Dueler HL or the Michelin Cross-Terrain SUV. Right now I’m leaning toward the Michelins because I can get them about $40 less (installed, hazard warranty and tax) for a set of four than the Dueler HL tires. Tire Rack rates the Michelins a bit higher than the Dueler HL.
4 - Duelers for 255-70-16 - $640
4 - Michelin Cross Terrain SUV 255-70-16 - $600
*********
I don't know if your price sensitive but I saw an advertisement today that Firestone/Bridgestone has a promotion on (4/12 to 4/14) that you buy 3 tires and get 4. I just re-priced the Dueler HL and the installed, hazard warranty and tax is now $510 vs. the $640 I posted yesterday. So now I’m leaning toward the Dueler HL tires rather than the Michelins.
Good Luck!
The SUV also has a sidewall that doesn't turn brown between washings. Check the Michelin site for more information on them. I've had the SUVs for a year (18,000 miles) and like them. I traded in the Dueler HTs that came on my Highlander. I might've kept the OEM tires if they had been the HLs.
However, I've never been a Firestone fan and Bridgestone owns Firestone. My Dad had the Firestone 500's (mid-70's) and I owned a '00 Explorer with the Firestone exploder tires.
The closest thing an average person can get to unbiased testing is Consumer Reports. IIRC, CR ranked the Dueler H/L at or near the top of their latest SUV tire test. Once I find that issue I'll post more info.
If you have links or additional info that TH members can access to expand their knowledge, please post them and let us do our own research. I am building a database of tire info and would like to have access to those tests you mention.
And as for browning, while Michelin has made some improvements to the carbon black used in some of their tires, it can be avoided by cleaning the tires each time you wash your vehicle. I use Eagle One Tire Cleaner and a nylon brush every single time I wash. I follow up with a water-based protectant that has UV inhibitors to protect the sidewall and keep it looking good. I've been a detailer for over 20 years and virtually all "brown" tires I've seen have been caused by owners not cleaning tires and using too much protectant; usually the bad kind that has silicone oil in it.
In addition to surveys, both Tirerack and Consumer Report are testing tires, but only selected models. The tirerack surveys cover, probably, 5 times more models.
As well as I remember, the both Tirerack and CR are testing only new tires. However, some tires deteriorate substantially when worn out 50% or so, while other hold better. User surveys are reflecting the wear.
I believe, that the best would be to use all information available - tests, user surveys, the manufacturer description and specs, etc.
In the next few months I am going to have to replace the tires on my 2000 Honda CR-V.
Has anyone tried the Yokohama Aegis passenger tires? Consumer reports and tirerack.com both rate them highly for handling and traction (wet and snow) as well as low noise. Are they as good as CR suggests? I am looking more for highway / commuting tires and not off-road tires.
Thanks
I cannot really comment about mounting backwards, but it seems unlikely that 50 miles can do any damage.
What do you think of these tires?
And the Bridgestone Duelers: MY OEM tires were down to the wear marks at 25K. My Duelers were unsafe on snow, ice, slush, cold rain WHEN NEW.
Anecdotal yes. Real yes.Ask the buyers.
I am curious - does CR have any safeguards against the "competition" stuffing the ballot boxes?
tidester
Host
SUVs, Aftermarkets & Accessories
Can anyone translate "gibberish" for me? Thanks.
Consumer Reports mails out a survey once per year to all who subscribe to the magazine. It asks about ones car maintenance history that is used in the annual "Auto" issue plus other topics such as TV's, appliances, etc. I do not recall any questions on tires in the past 10 years or so. The tire reviews I have seen have been based on their own testing.
I believe that Consumer Reports is totally unbiased and does a great job. I don't see how anyone would be able to "stuff" the ballot box.
CR may be unbiased but it occurs to me that an unscrupulous group of people or company could "mass subscribe" with the intention of responding to those questionaires either in favor of or against a partcular product. But then, maybe I've been watching too much politics on C-SPAN! ;-)
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As a bonus of being a day late, I got to try them in the rain ... an unusual event here in southern California :-) On the freeway, doing 65 in the rain, I felt quite comfortable and confident in the ability of the tires to hold the road. In fact, it felt no different than driving when dry, a good bit of road-feel, though not over-powering. Toyota kept someone around late to re-mount the tire. Very nice of them, even though it took a direct call to the service manager to accomplish that, it took no heavy handed tactics though. He owed up to it being their error after a short explanation of what transpired.
I read about this "mount this side in" just now at 5 in the morning, so I haven't checked the tires themselves to see if they're on properly. My question is, doesn't the design of the sidewall have a distinct inside and outside? Is the serrated sidewall design on both sides of the tire?
It's a pretty sure bet that I will get these, likely from Discount Tire. Has anyone here dealt with them? Firestone totally pissed me off last week when they told me that to qualify for the tread wear warranty, I would have to have a wheel alignment done twice per year!
On the outside, the SP Sport A2 molds an innovative dual-phase tread compound into a mildly asymmetric tread design that features outside shoulder blocks with minimal siping to enhance steering response and cornering stability while the inside shoulder blocks feature more sipes to provide the additional biting edges to aid traction in foul weather.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/dunlop/du_sp_a2.jsp
The "mount this side in" mark is there for a reason. Probably not as crucial as ultra high performance asymmetric tires, but I would imagine it makes a difference.
Ken
The question that now comes to mind, is do you rotate the SP Sports front to back, or in the X pattern?
PS: Are you a cast member?
Truth be told about Disney; they aren't the best company to be working for. I am in Engineering with ABC, and since Disney came along and bought the shop, it hasn't been the magic kingdom everyone was expecting. Fortunately we raised a stink when they wanted us to wear "mouse ears" around the studios.