Tires, tires, tires

driftracer

SO WHY WOULD ANYONE RUN THEIR TIRES AT MAX PRESSURE WHEN IT'S UNSAFE?? AAARRRGGH!!!

ruking1

I also run a few sets of Michelin LTX's 275 70 16's with SR ratings. (have for many miles) Again the MTP is like 44#'s with 85% that would be like 37/38. However a long time ago, the Toyota Service Manager after a conversation said 32/35 psi in that will give the best all around performance. The 4800# suv will stop in 136 ft 60-0.

Given your test, I would use the 44 psi as a point of departure. If you are also in the further experimentation mode run the test at a 32/35 psi. I think the results and your goals will speak for themselves!

misterme

Thanks for the help and discussion!
Steve

wain

Been looking at them.
bought some 716s seem good. 205 65 15

been looking at the 795s for my Camry but they seem narrower ( by almost 1 inch in tread width) than the dunlop d 60s on the car now. Also narrower than goodyear intergitys and goodyear invictas i see on other cars.
why narrower?
seems would be less safe

ruking1

perhaps looking at the technical specs will give you a good comparison!?

wain

the tire mfgs do not list the tread width
only the section width

ruking1

I am not sure what concern you really have? If you get a 65 tire vs a 60 tire it will of course be different. So are you in fact comparing the same sized tire against different manufacturers? Or more specifically 205/65/15 GY vs Kumho? I mean a 205 tread width cannot be an inch less or more. If it is it is more like 215 or 195?

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

ecasano

I'm from Vermont and hate switching my snow tires every year. But I recently bought these tire bags called Tire Totes, they are used to carry and store snow tires. I came across them while at the SEMA show in Vagas. I bought a couple and used them this winter for my Subaru for the first time. It was great. It made it easy to carry two tires at a time without getting dirty or the interior of my car dirty. Also they look better in my garage than a stack of dirty tires. Two Thumbs up. The company is http://www.tiretote.com.

stever

I just keep mine in heavy duty garbage bags that the tire shop provided several years ago - after I knot them up loosely they roll to my storage spot. My garage ain't too pretty anyway. Maybe if I had one of those Gladiator frig's out there :-)

Signs of spring here; may be time to change the studs out already. I won't miss the droning!

Steve, Host

ecasano

I use to use garbage bags, which worked pretty well but would always tear on me and are hard to carry. I like these because of the heavy-duty handle. I stack them but I would think that they could be hung using the handle. If you had the Gladiator frig you would also need a couch and tv. Then where would the car go?

wain

the tread width, not the section width, on 795 Kumhos in the 195 70 14 size (and probably all the other 795 series sizes ) is narrower than other brand tires. This is a Same size to same size comparison.
Its 3/4 inch narrower. The Kunho 795 tires are narrower.
I wrote Tire Rack and asked was this true?
they wrote back and said, yes the section width is about the same but they are "skinny" compared to other tires, tread width is less.
tread widths:
Firestone lh 30
dunlop d 60, goodyear invicta and integrity and bridgstone turanza are all 6 inches to 6 1/4 or so wide where the tread is on the road.
Kumho 795s are only 5 3/4 inches wide.
Less rubber on the road. By about 10%

.

stever

lol Ecasano, the cars barely fit as it is! I have a sheltered back porch utility area behind the garage and that's where I roll my tires to. That's probably a better spot for the outdoor kitchen too.

Steve, Host

ruking1

"Kumho 795s are only 5 3/4 inches wide.
Less rubber on the road. By about 10%"

So now that you know that for sure, what are you planning to do?

wain

Not buy them. Even tho they are at a good price and we have an excellent dealer here.
prior to all this I thought most tires in a size had the same rubber on the road.
Most do - in this one "brand' the 795 Kumhos are skinny. All the others tires i looked at are about the same width.
Michelin will not tell me the width of their tires (they say it is not a federal requirement and they do not have a standard way to measure(!))
 they list every other measurement but not the one that counts. i can go to a tire dealer and measure tho. Strange there with Michelin cust service - dorky really. bridgstone firestone lists their tire tread road contact widths on their web sites

arlingtonva

Our Michelin tires have numerous hairline cracks in the sidewalls and tread. They have about 45K miles and were installed in 1999.

The cracking probably is a function of age. I am wondering if the tires are safe although there is still a fair amount of tread left (5K miles or so).

One tire store was not too concerned about them but did say they have less resistance to blowouts when hitting potholes - plenty of those around here.

I do not want to waste money by installing new tires but worth it if safety is an issue.

Thanks.

imidazol97

My XH4s did that after about 80K on them. I didn't think there's anything to worry about. They made it to 110K just fine.

driftracer

and in many states, cars won't pass state inspection with that condition present.

They are more prone to failure, thereby being unpredictable.

wain

if surface only not a problem

1999 tires are not that old

driftracer

old when you're talking about rubber sitting around in the weather.

Just think how wrinkled and cracked you'd be if you sat outside for 5 years!

pluto5

After 4 yrs the tire can be seriously deteriorated and with 45K miles you don't have much grip in rain or snow. I would rather ride on a new $36 Kumho than a well worn Michelin.

wain

where are some good tire reviews of regular all season tires or maybe touring tires?
I look at tire rack and consumer reports.
tire rack has a lot of info but its really not direct comparison. They ask, rate your tires 1-10 , on say noise, what do you give it?

Consumer reports does a comparison of a group of tires which i think is better than a survey. Surveys like Tire rack include all different kinds of cars so a tire that is quiet on a Caddy may be noisy on a Cavalier. Also with tire rack (I think) when a tire changes like Firestone Affinity , the old and new get lumped together as the name is the same..

C reports also does not test a lot of tires available in my area and sometimes (2001) they do not mention noise. they do in 2003. but then they only do it once a year and do not test a lot of brands. they seem to leave Goodyear out (maybe there is a reason)
any other on line tire comparisons?????????.

and in general is Michelin in any way responding to the Korean/ cheaper tires? Michelin seems to have really gone upscale - if you want only a 45000 mile tire, michelin sells only80k tires.

bretfraz

I've been searching for meaningful tire reviews since I came to Edmunds 4 years ago. Occassionally there is a good review of a limited selection of tires (like ultra hi perf) but I cannot recall seeing a comprehensive review of all seasons or touring tires beyond what CR does.

I don't pay much attention to the TR "reviews" since they're mostly impressions from consumers whose knowledge of tires is rather modest, to say the least. I like TR's comparos but they're pretty basic.

As for Michelin, I don't see why they need to respond to the El Cheapo competition. There is plenty of room in the marketplace for the high end and low end mfr's. Besides, Michelin owns many tire plants which make tires sold under brand names which aren't high end. So like Goodyear and Bridgestone, Michelin has all the bases covered.

driftracer

I agree that reading "These tires suck" or "they're great" from someone who doesn't even rotate his tires or check pressure regularly doesn't do much for my education level about a specific tire.

I need a million dollar a year government grant. I'm ASE certified, former service manager, autocross racer and could evaluate tires in proper perspective.

Will someone make that recommendation to someone in authority please? I'll be glad to do the work for the aforementioned annual grant and all I'll do is test tires. On my many, many vehicles, at my many, many vacation homes.

sandman46

I have these tires on my '03 Sentra and with 8k miles on them, their abiltiies in the rain have been horrible. I drive with Turanza's on my work van and they seem to handle all weather conditions much better. I guess since the RE's are OEM equipment on many new cars, they are not meant to last that long and are probaly made with lesser materials.
One thing I must say about Hyundai and Honda, they put the good stuff, Michelin's, on many of their cars as OEM equipment. Now how much more could it cost a manufacturer to put better tires on all new vehicles?

The Sandman :-)

wain

what other brands does Michelin make?

Is Goodyear in financial trouble? I read their pension fund was underfunded by 250 mil

what are Bridgestone RE930 tires? Sold by Cosco?

bretfraz

Michelin makes over 190 million tires per year in 74 plants in 18 countries. Not all the tires carry the Michelin name nor the technology or design or engineering.

In the US, Michelin North America (MNA) owns the tires brands BFGoodrich and Uniroyal.

According to Bridgestone the RE930 was replaced by the RE950. However Bridgestone may be producing the RE930's for Costco exclusively. I'll ask Bridgestone and let you know.

wain

i would like to know. Have you owned any 950's?
Loud?
Quiet?

bretfraz

Yes, I had RE950's on my previous car. I posted impressions about them in this thread if you want to have a look.

They were louder than the Michelin touring tires that I replaced but I would not classify them as "loud". The v-shaped performance tire tread pattern is naturally noisy but I was willing to trade some ride noise for added performance.

ruking1

Currently Costco sells the Bridgestone Potenza RE 950 for 89 per out the door (not including taxes) for 195-65-15 size (H) rated.

wain

maybe they (Bridgestones) as a group are not quiet.
we had some on an infinity, they rode hard but that could have ben the 65 series size. They were not too noisy but were not as quiet as my present dunlop d60s (which design Dunlop does not make anymore, naturally )
i am looking for an all season or touring tire of 45000 or 5000 mile quality that is quiet and "round".
Any ideas or suggestions?
everyone on tire rack seems to call Dunlops loud as well as Mich "symmetry" tires.

whats wacky about comparing Consumer reports with tire rack results is say look at the "Firestone affinity LH30".
Tire rack rates it as 6th best of 36 tires (based on people opinions).
Consumer reports in a dedicated test last November done by one person or a few people using the same car, rates Firestone affinity lh30 as 18th (last) out of 18 tires.
so who do you believe? i think i lean toward Consumer reports since its a comparison test. In the case of firestone you have the intangible of the firestone/Explorer mess and also if you are older you remember all the d500's that came apart in I think the 70s.
@ do you choose a good tire??????????.

kyfdx

Bridgestone Turanza LS.. available in T, H, or Z rating.. I have LS-H on an Acura Legend. Very nice tires.

regards,
kyfdx

wain

From my tire looking i have found there are big differences in the width of the tread on the same size tire.
Differences range to 1 1/4 inches on a 195 70 r14 size tire. thats a lot of more or less rubber ( x4 of course) on the ground

Also I was in a Goodyear store today. Sold Goodyear firestone kelly and Fulda.
they said they were dropping Goodyear due to too many quality tires - they had adjusted 3 tires that day.
Any idea in rank order who sells the most, 2 nd, 3 rd etc?

bretfraz

http://www.tirebusiness.com/subscriber/special_reports.html

Lots of good info there for those who are interested.

touhead

I have 255/55/18 on my VW. I would like to find a decent AT tire but have had no luck. I could switch to a 17 inch wheel if that would help widen the choices. I do mostly highway driving but enjoy the occasional off road fun.

bretfraz

Michelin Diamaris?

About the only somewhat AT tire I could find in that size is the Michelin 4x4 APC.

Good luck in your search. AT tires in that size for such a niche vehicle will be very very hard to find.

touhead

Continental 4x4 contact are what I have on my Touareg now.

edh

has Anyone owned theM?
local dealer that sells them at two branches says they cup easily if not rotated regularly.

Any comments
________________________
Also Kumho 795s? any experience?

bluestar1

I have the Dunlops on my LS400 and I really don't like them. To my ears, they are noisy. I have about 8K miles on them now, but would change into something different in my next tire change. I will recommend Michelins or Bridgestones if you want some performance, quiet ride, better handling and traction in wet and dry (Michelins are typically good in this area). If you want long tread life, then Michelin. Well, you can guess that I like Michelins a lot. have them on my other 2 cars and love them.

edh

some Michelins I have owned in the past have ridden "hard" tho are good tires.
they are also very pricey and in consumer reports tests are not always on top.
Goodyear seems to be having corporate problems.
I have dunlop d 60s (great) now but they quit making them. the d65s that replaced them are supposed to be very noisy.

driftracer

didn't replace the D60, in fact, it's a lesser grade tire in all areas.

The D60 A2 was replaced by the D60 Sport (A2). One of my favorite all-around tires.

biggie2

I am stuck with Bridgstone and all Bridgstone subsidary brand tires such as Firestone. I am unable to switch brands unfortunately. Handling and the longest life possible for a good handling tire would take priority over noise isolation and how they ride. Currently I have Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus in a 205/55-16 size, they are ok but I am definitely looking for a better handling tire. Anyways within the Bridgstone brand I am looking at the Potenza RE92 and RE950, and will also highly consider the Turanza LS-H. My first question would be, how do these tires rate and what would you personally recommend. Second question would be what are the differences and purpose of the RE92s compared to the RE950s. Lastly, are there any Firestone or other Bridgestone subsidary tire manufactorer's tire i should consider? Personally I would rather see Bridgestone sitting on my wheel than Firestone... Thanks

kyfdx

I don't have the answer to all of your questions, but I do have Turanza LS-H on my Acura Legend. I would recommend them without reservation.

regards,
kyfdx

hammen2

I have the Dunlop SP Sport A2's on my '98 Aurora (Autobahn package). I read all of the reviews on Tire Rack before buying them 2 years ago. I was happy when they were first put on, but, over time, and despite having them rotated every other oil change (about 3500-4000 miles between changes), they got noisier and noisier. I just checked them out last weekend and noticed the tread is really low (after 40k mi - there's supposed to be a 50k mi treadwear warranty, but the tire dealer I bought them from says that it's really hard to get Dunlop to back it - i.e. if there's any uneven wear, they disallow the warranty).

I'm not putting them on again when it comes time for replacements (more on that in my next message)... when I checked the recent reviews on Tire Rack, many many people complaining of poor treadwear (18-25K mi typical). Makes me feel fortunate I got 40K out of them...

--Robert

hammen2

OK, time to replace the worn-out Dunlops on my Aurora. The two most interesting (to me)options at Tire Rack are the Continental ContiExtremeContacts, which are a fairly new tire, but have garnered rave reviews, and the also-new B.F. Goodrich Traction T/As (which has no reviews, but decent survey results).

I had Comp T/A's on my '91 Grand Prix and put them on my '96 Lumina (replacing the junky Goodyear Eagle OEMs). They were OK but not outstanding. I've never had Continental tires before. One concern is that the Conti's are classified as Grand Touring All-Season, whereas the Traction T/A's are High Performance All-Season (like the Dunlops I presently have). I don't autocross or race, but like to take a curve quickly once in a while :-)

I could also look at the Bridgestone Turanza LS-H's, as well as the Michelin Pilot XGT's, though my opinion of Michelin tires isn't super high (the car came with MXV4's on it, but they were trash at 27k - though the car had been sitting for nearly a year when I got it, so I'm not sure how much was Michelin's problem, and how much was rot).

I'd welcome any input/suggestions/recommendations. I know I can call Tire Rack and get the info, but I need to buy the tires locally (since my car is sensitive to the balance of the tires - they need to be road-force balanced using a Hunter GSP9700 - I need to get them from the local dealer, since they'll be happy to swap/send back any tires that don't meet the spec. Unfortunately, they are busier than heck, and can't really offer me much advice on which tire to pick).

I live in Wisconsin, so snow/rain/ice is an issue. Handling/traction are important, ride comfort and noise less so.

I'd appreciate any input/suggestions.

Thanks, in advance,

--Robert

ruking1

..."(the car came with MXV4's on it, but they were trash at 27k - though the car had been sitting for nearly a year when I got it, so I'm not sure how much was Michelin's problem, and how much was rot)."...

Actually your experience tracks with my sisters experiences despite the difference in cars (but Michelin 215/55/16's). She is not what I would call an "agressive" driver. One of her tires is just a hair over 2/32 at roughly 31k . So I do not think treadwear rot is an issue.

sandman46

I have these on my '03 Sentra and am very underwhelmed with the wet traction, or lack of it. My work vehicle has the Turenza L-H's on them and the van rides very confidently no matter what the weather and I plan to put them on the Sentra when the R92's give out.

The Sandman :-)

bretfraz

RE950 - Best handling of the three. Technology directly from the Potenza S-03 makes this tire a great overall performer. A little noisier and stiffer than your OE Michelin but better steering response and overall better handling. Will maintain its wet traction even when 50% worn. All in all a great HPAS tire.

Turanza LS - Smoother and quieter than the RE950. Consider it a Grand Touring/Luxury tire. Would be a good choice for the Acura Legend and Olds Aurora mentioned above.

RE92 - Bridgestone's OE tire they sell to automakers for that volume biz. Inferior to the tires mentioned above. Frankly I don't have much good to say about it.... well, it holds air and its round.... how's that?

Good handling and long life are mutually exclusive. The best handling tires usually last less than 20K or so. It really depends on your driving style. IMO long treadlife isn't worth the handling trade off. Get the RE950's, make sure they get mounted and balanced correctly, and enjoy the performance.

edh

From reading the tire rack reviews at least 3 people complain that in cold weather the Turanza tires flat spot and therefore "thump" for the first 5 miles (one person) or 10 miles (one other person).

Looking at the tire construction I see that it contains nylon, which in years past was bad about flat spotting. Many tires use polyester cord not nylon.

A warning.

My trips are less than 10 miles many times .
No thump for me.
the other Bridgestons 92s 950 etc came on our Maxima and rode hard and were not quiet.

badgerfan

I also am interested in the BF Goodrich Traction TA's for my 2000 Taurus, though likely not for a while yet as I am going to wear out the OEM Continentals (not Continental ContiExtremeContacts, but cheaper OEM Contis) that came with the car new. The OEMs are actually pretty good on snow, though they seem to have very poor wet road traction. I too am in Wisconsin, so cope with occasional snow and ice in winter.

I did check out Tire Rack a few weeks ago and I believe they did do some of their own testing on the Traction TA's and they came out pretty good. The BFG Traction TA look to maybe be a good traction tire at a reasonable price, but since new, I don't know if there is much experience out there. Maybe by the time I am ready to dump the OEM's there will be more feedback.

sandman46

I just got home from Sears and they found a stud and a long nail maybe an inch from the sidewall. The tech told me that the Bridgestone and Michelin tires have a harder rubber which allowed him to patch the tire even though it was close to the sidewall. He told me Bridgestone and Michelin are probaly 2 of the best constructed tire brands.
Just hope he's right! I'm riding on the Potenza RE92's

The Sandman :-)