1. consumer reports does tire tests from time to time.
2. they do not survey owners about tires like they do other products (TVs vcrs, washers). so there is no CR statistical data on tires, just the tire tests in #1 above.
I can understand the results you get of of Tire rack and similar surveys. And my past experiences with CR are just that - past!
So I take it you have never been sent the annual questionaire?
The difference is 1 CR massages the data so it can be put in the form you see in print. They do not print each one like TR for example. Also if you are a non TR customer you can not take the survey, which is not too different from CR.
The CR questionnaires are sent out to subscribers only.
Does the demographic distribution of their subscriber base match the demographics of the purchasers of each type of car. No, in my opinion.
Many people read CR at the library or the grocery store magazine rack and online but do not subscribe. The ones who choose to subscribe match a cross-section of the population biased toward what I remember as the 70s culture.The 'green' folk now who were against "the military-industrial complex then."
Does the demographics of those who _choose_ to return a questionnaire match those of the ownership of that brand/model of car. In my opinion, no.
Those who choose to return a questionnaire may love their experience with a model and want to share the glory or may hate it because of bad experiences and want to gripe (understandably so).
They may also report on cars they don't own. Is there any kind of ownership check by CR on what cars are registered to their subscriber list? I'm sure there isn't.
So take CR as anecdotal information which certainly can be useful. But it is not JDR type data getting a true cross-section. And CR is historical data. The 2003 Odyssey you just bought because it had the wonderful reports for 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 data may have problems that haven't been discovered yet -- say transmission design flaw that's just now in the news.
I wouldn't categorize CR subscribers as a bunch of Naderites. I am a long-time subscriber and my parents were also... I, in no way, fit your generalizations.
In fact, my main reason for subscribing is for the auto testing. CR has an editorial "voice", just like any other magazine. You have to read it a lot, just like Car & Driver (to which I also subscribe), so that you can take their opinions and adjust them to what is important to you.
Other than the fact that their surveys are restricted to their subscribers, I don't see how you can ascribe any more or less of a "scientific" bent than JD Powers uses.
I do know that unlike C&D and JDP, they accept no advertising or even donations of subject automobiles. They go out of their way to assure the independence of their testing.
JDP's initial quality survey is virtually useless. Who would make a choice in cars based on their reliability at the 90 day point? JDP may have some useful information, but that survey wouldn't be part of it.
CR did say the E39 BMW 5-series was the best car they ever tested, so they must be doing something right.
capriracer: I will attempt to find out the info you want regarding tests. I don't save my CR issues (my wife likes to pare down my collection from time to time), but I will see if I can get it on-line.
"...I am looking at a 2004 annual survey- nothing on it about tires
they send it to 3,300,000 people "...
I think they petered out when they realized the (logistics) resources it would take for an ongoing analysis of engine oil and tires. I for one was disappointed when they did the engine oil tests and stopped the conventional vs synthetic comparo.
I don't mean this is a pejorative sense in that how many organizations can afford to buy the representative tires and tire brands for each market segment and put 30-90,000 miles on a set? By that time most OEM's have come out with completely different tires!!??
The same is also true of oils. I have also read in passing that to so called test or api certify an oil costs between 100-300k (if nothing goes wrong) for EACH GRADE! So say you make 1 m quarts per year of 5w30. that would be 10 cents per qt just for the tests to certify. Also as most folks know the certifying authority gets a per quart royalty or whatever is negotiated.
do the shops re-use the existing stems when they change tires or do they put in new ones?
I need to buy new tires, and am wondering if I should also order new stems ($3 a piece) or if the installer will just use the stems from my current tires.
Every installer I've every used has always put in new valve stems, charged me for them, and refused to use the old ones (even on a failed tire that's only a few months old). Call your installer and ask, though, just to make sure. I'd say you'd want new valve stems, but shouldn't have to do anything extra to get them.
Not really enough info to comment on, but they were rated "A" for temperature and traction and are H speed rated. Unfortunately, those measures don't express how the tire performs in real life... Good luck with your purchase decision!
If you think the 90 day survey has no meaning, then take a look at some cars that have been a around for 3 to 5 years. We have JD Power Circle ratings that go out to 5 years on some models and it's interesting to compare the initial survey results with the long term ones.
Or do you think a data point based on 5 years of ownership is blastable to?
I'm more interested in the 5-year rating than the 90-day rating. Issues that tend to crop up after the warranty is up are more likely to be reflected in the 5-year rating than 90-day. Many complaints or problems in the first 90-days of ownership are attributable to user error or misunderstanding...
Initial quality is an indicator of long term design and durability. There should be a correlation.
The problem is the 5-year or 2-year or whatever may not be the same car the current 90-day is discussing.
A Chrysler 300... long term results for a 300 aren't at all like the redesigned 300C. How meaningful are the longer term results? Are they about the car model or are they more about the car company's past?
2003 Accord buyers didn't get quite the car the longer term data indicated. There were more problems than there should be in that model. Short term data should show that after the first several months -- if the information is made public by JDPowers or other sources.
Can someone tell me how good the Michelin Hydro Edge tires are in winter driving? I heard they are great for three season driving but horrible in the winter.
Is this true or are they good in snow like the Michelin site suggests?
What should I expect with a tire change from 205/55-16 to a 60 or 65 profile??? Will there be a difference in ride? Difference in noise?? Will the car sit higher?? I would expect to stay with the 205's. Thanks
If you change from 205/55-16 to 205/60-16 or 205/65-16, your tire will definitely be taller.. maybe even to the point of not fitting on your car. These sizes aren't interchangeable.
"Bridgestone Corp. will raise tire prices 5 percent next month because it's paying more for the petroleum to make the tires and more for the gasoline to ship the tires around the country."
Current Contintental tires are NOISY and ride hard... I thought a little more "air" might improve both... Eyeballing the wheel wells... makes me think 60's would fit??? On a related topic... Has anyone tried spray-on sound deadening in wheel wells??? thanks.
I recommend switching to a better tire.. Some tires seem to get really noisy as they wear, also. Even if the tire fits in the wheel well, it might not fit under load conditions, such as tight turns or over rough road. Also, when you put a taller tire on, it throws off your speedometer and odometer readings. A taller tire might also handle worse than what you have.
What is your make and model?... There are probably smoother riding and quieter tires you could get.
Off the top of my head, that sounds like the BMW 325i stock size... I know they use a lot of Continentals..
If you have H-rated tires, I'd recommend the Bridgestone Turanza LS-H. I have them on an Acura Legend in 205/50-15. They are very quiet and ride great, as well as good handling.
If your car requires V-rated tires, then they are also available as Turanza LS-V in your size.
I liked the LS-H so much, I am putting Turanza LS-T on my Honda CRV today.
I am one of those (non tire expert) believers that thinks if it only happends at a certain time it couldn't be mechanical, so my brain is telling me that it must be a tire or tires.
PROBLEM: After driving the car for a while I can feel some shaking going on in the front right. Almost like as if I have a flat tire, but I don't. I looked at the tire, and yes I do need new ones, but I am not too concerned with that.
Question: What possiblities could there be that it is an old tire creating the shaking sensation when the tire starts to heat up, after 2-30 min. or so of driving.
BMW... in my dreams. Tires are on a Pontiac Vibe... Actually when I retire next year a certified BMW or AUDI might be my reward to myself! Tire noise is really bad! I can not even tell if its from front or back! I think the back! I recently rotated and re balanced! $130, which would have been better spend on tires! Tirerack has some KUMHO tires?, any good ? thanks
They start out being a grippy and un-slient tire, and both aspects worsen as the wear sets in. Find some nice touring tires (such as the excellent recommended Turanzas), read reviews on tire websites (such as tirerack) and pick one.
And yes, most of the cheaper tires ARE noisier (but often grippier, or capable of providing a better price performance point at least). Since that is not what you're trying to acheieve, go for one of the quiet tires from a big brand (BS, FS, GY etc)
Kumhos are cheap tires.. If you are unhappy with your current tires, they won't make you any happier.. They are a decent tire for the budget challenged, but not one that I would recommend.
... depends on what you want to do with the tires, and what you want out of them. I wouldn't recommend Kumhos to this particular poster, but for someone seeking a performance edge at a low price, the Kumho MX represent the best summer Max Performance tire deal in existence
I have Michelin X-Ones on my Honda Accord and thought they were the greatest tires I had ever purchased. This all changed when I replaced Michelin XW4 tires on my Toyota Camry with Michelin Hydroedge tires. The tires ride smooth and corner better than any tire I have ever owned. They are real quiet as compared to the X-Ones.
They have an 85K warranty which is the best in the industry. I highly recommend the Michelin Hydroedge to anyone driving a Toyota Camry.
kyfdx - Could you please give more info on the Turanza LS-H on your Acura? How many miles on LS-H so far? What type of tires have you had on Acura Legend before LS-H and could you share any more specifics on handling using the LS-H?
Has anyone purchased the Goodyear Comfortred Tires? I'm in the market to buy new tires and i've seen good reviews so far, i'm looking for a quiet tire or would a Michelin tire be a better buy?
Tire Rack doesn't have that many reviews up yet. I would give the nod to the Michelin HydroEdge until I see more reviews. The HydroEdge's design is more like that of the TripleTread than the ComforTread. All three are premium tires with very high treadwear ratings.
While shopping around for tires I was shown the Goodyear Assurance TripleTred which looks very simular to the Michelin Hydroedge which they have the special design for Ice, Rain tread patterns, however the Goodyear Assurance Comfortred seems to be more of what i'm looking for since I would want a quiet comfort riding tire for my Buick, Michelin does have quite a few tire models available, though it seems the tire dealers are pushing the Michelin Hydroedge and the Goodyear Tripletred's, to me they seem as if they would be noisy with their ice/rain tread pattern designs, has anyone experienced the TripleTred's or Hydroedges?
Noise from X-Ones has been mentioned. I don't get noise from my X-Ones. They were quieteer than my previous tire. I get a normal noise when I'm on concrete that has been roughened for traction such as on bridges. On most streets they are quiet even with 60K on them.
anybody use them? some of the tire rack reviews say they get out of round quick and get noisy after 10k or so miles. Maybe people only put them on sports cars and then drive them too hard. choice of those or sirxon 4 tires which is better for a quiet ride?
I don't have a lot of miles on them.. It is a third car, and I garage it at a relative's house. Believe it or not, they replaced the original equipment Michelins that were on the car from 1992!! If you follow the thread on the Ask Connor board, my experience is pretty much as advertised. A tire with good grip in wet and dry and a nice ride.. They handle very well, though if you really push a car, there might be a more aggressive tire. For any kind of luxury/semi-sporty sedan, I think they are just about perfect.
My Legend takes 205/50-15.. Supposed to be V-rated, but that is kind of a weird size for V-rated tires... The only thing available was a very expensive Michelin. I've got a couple thousand miles on the LS-H and don't see any problems whatsoever. I recommend them and even just put Turanza LS-T on my '02 CRV.
Does anyone have experience with Discount Tire's Free Replacement Warranty? I'm thinking of purchasing tires from them however they offer a free replacement warranty for an additional cost otherwise they prorate the amount of the defective or punctured tire that is returned, would this be something worth getting?
I love th SP5000s for sports cars, but for the rest of my family I bought them the Sport A2s. 97 Hyundai Sonata, dad loves em on there, 97 Subaru Legacy Sedan, loves em on there, and finally on my uncle's Outback, he loves em there too.
I have had them on 2 Accords and am a big fan. The 2000 Accord had 15" wheels and the 2003 Accord has 17" wheels. Although I have not put more than 15K miles on either set of tires, I have not experienced any cupping problems and these tires handle so much better than the OEM Michelin MXV4 tires...especially in wet weather. For the price of these tires, the value is hard to beat.
I'm on the other side of the fence. I had these tires on a Maxima and hated them. Noisy and the tread wore badly. On the other hand I had the best road traction with these tires ever. Got rid of them after only 16K miles and was glad to be rid of them. Sorry, but I had a bad experience with them.
Comments
2. they do not survey owners about tires like they do other products (TVs vcrs, washers). so there is no CR statistical data on tires, just the tire tests in #1 above.
So I take it you have never been sent the annual questionaire?
The difference is 1 CR massages the data so it can be put in the form you see in print. They do not print each one like TR for example. Also if you are a non TR customer you can not take the survey, which is not too different from CR.
Does the demographic distribution of their subscriber base match the demographics of the purchasers of each type of car. No, in my opinion.
Many people read CR at the library or the grocery store magazine rack and online but do not subscribe. The ones who choose to subscribe match a cross-section of the population biased toward what I remember as the 70s culture.The 'green' folk now who were against "the military-industrial complex then."
Does the demographics of those who _choose_ to return a questionnaire match those of the ownership of that brand/model of car. In my opinion, no.
Those who choose to return a questionnaire may love their experience with a model and want to share the glory or may hate it because of bad experiences and want to gripe (understandably so).
They may also report on cars they don't own. Is there any kind of ownership check by CR on what cars are registered to their subscriber list? I'm sure there isn't.
So take CR as anecdotal information which certainly can be useful. But it is not JDR type data getting a true cross-section. And CR is historical data. The 2003 Odyssey you just bought because it had the wonderful reports for 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 data may have problems that haven't been discovered yet -- say transmission design flaw that's just now in the news.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
they send it to 3,300,000 people
In fact, my main reason for subscribing is for the auto testing. CR has an editorial "voice", just like any other magazine. You have to read it a lot, just like Car & Driver (to which I also subscribe), so that you can take their opinions and adjust them to what is important to you.
Other than the fact that their surveys are restricted to their subscribers, I don't see how you can ascribe any more or less of a "scientific" bent than JD Powers uses.
I do know that unlike C&D and JDP, they accept no advertising or even donations of subject automobiles. They go out of their way to assure the independence of their testing.
JDP's initial quality survey is virtually useless. Who would make a choice in cars based on their reliability at the 90 day point? JDP may have some useful information, but that survey wouldn't be part of it.
CR did say the E39 BMW 5-series was the best car they ever tested, so they must be doing something right.
capriracer: I will attempt to find out the info you want regarding tests. I don't save my CR issues (my wife likes to pare down my collection from time to time), but I will see if I can get it on-line.
regards,
kyfdx
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regards,
kyfdx
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they send it to 3,300,000 people "...
I think they petered out when they realized the (logistics) resources it would take for an ongoing analysis of engine oil and tires.
I don't mean this is a pejorative sense in that how many organizations can afford to buy the representative tires and tire brands for each market segment and put 30-90,000 miles on a set? By that time most OEM's have come out with completely different tires!!??
The same is also true of oils. I have also read in passing that to so called test or api certify an oil costs between 100-300k (if nothing goes wrong) for EACH GRADE! So say you make 1 m quarts per year of 5w30. that would be 10 cents per qt just for the tests to certify. Also as most folks know the certifying authority gets a per quart royalty or whatever is negotiated.
I need to buy new tires, and am wondering if I should also order new stems ($3 a piece) or if the installer will just use the stems from my current tires.
http://www.ststire.com/tires/runway_enduro.shtml
Not really enough info to comment on, but they were rated "A" for temperature and traction and are H speed rated. Unfortunately, those measures don't express how the tire performs in real life... Good luck with your purchase decision!
JDR should stick to doing what they do best - selling GM cars. Ha!
Or do you think a data point based on 5 years of ownership is blastable to?
Steve, Host
I still think that the IQS is a good indicator of future reliability and satisfaction though.
In any event, it's nice to have another tool to use when trying to decide on a new car. Or tires, which we probably should get back to talking about.
Steve, Host
design and durability. There should be a correlation.
The problem is the 5-year or 2-year or whatever may not be the same car the current 90-day is discussing.
A Chrysler 300... long term results for a 300 aren't at all like the redesigned 300C.
How meaningful are the longer term results? Are they about the car model or are they more about the car company's past?
2003 Accord buyers didn't get quite the car the longer term data indicated. There were more problems than there should be in that model. Short term data should show that after the first several months -- if the information is made public by JDPowers or other sources.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Let's take it to JD Powers vs Consumer Reports: and get back to tires please.
Steve, Host
Is this true or are they good in snow like the Michelin site suggests?
Will there be a difference in ride?
Difference in noise??
Will the car sit higher??
I would expect to stay with the 205's.
Thanks
Michelin X-Ones? Harmony or Hydroedge?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
What are you trying to accomplish?
regards,
kyfdx
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Michelin X-Ones? Harmony or Hydroedge?"
this is a good question
wonder why Michelin messed with the x 1
Gas-tly situation (Marion Star)
Steve, Host
I thought a little more "air" might improve both...
Eyeballing the wheel wells... makes me think 60's would fit???
On a related topic...
Has anyone tried spray-on sound deadening in wheel wells???
thanks.
What is your make and model?... There are probably smoother riding and quieter tires you could get.
regards,
kyfdx
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If you have H-rated tires, I'd recommend the Bridgestone Turanza LS-H. I have them on an Acura Legend in 205/50-15. They are very quiet and ride great, as well as good handling.
If your car requires V-rated tires, then they are also available as Turanza LS-V in your size.
I liked the LS-H so much, I am putting Turanza
LS-T on my Honda CRV today.
regards,
kyfdx
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PROBLEM:
After driving the car for a while I can feel some shaking going on in the front right. Almost like as if I have a flat tire, but I don't. I looked at the tire, and yes I do need new ones, but I am not too concerned with that.
Question: What possiblities could there be that it is an old tire creating the shaking sensation when the tire starts to heat up, after 2-30 min. or so of driving.
Tires are on a Pontiac Vibe...
Actually when I retire next year a certified BMW or AUDI might be my reward to myself!
Tire noise is really bad!
I can not even tell if its from front or back!
I think the back! I recently rotated and re balanced!
$130, which would have been better spend on tires!
Tirerack has some KUMHO tires?, any good ?
thanks
My recommendation would be Bridgestone Turanza LS-H, but they aren't cheap.. figure at least $500 for a set on the car.
If you don't want to spend that much, BFGoodrich Traction TA/H.. Probably about $100 less for the set.
For a professional opinion, click on the link at the top to: ASK CONNOR.
Be sure to give him the size and car model and make.
regards,
kyfdx
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And yes, most of the cheaper tires ARE noisier (but often grippier, or capable of providing a better price performance point at least). Since that is not what you're trying to acheieve, go for one of the quiet tires from a big brand (BS, FS, GY etc)
regards,
kyfdx
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I'm running 711s - the H-rated, less expensive tire on our 2 other rides (autocrossing and daily driving) and I love them.
They have an 85K warranty which is the best in the industry. I highly recommend the Michelin Hydroedge to anyone driving a Toyota Camry.
Thank you.
get noise from my X-Ones. They were quieteer than my previous tire. I get a normal noise when I'm on concrete that has been roughened for traction such as on bridges. On most streets they are quiet even with 60K on them.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Maybe people only put them on sports cars and then drive them too hard.
choice of those or sirxon 4 tires which is better for a quiet ride?
My Legend takes 205/50-15.. Supposed to be V-rated, but that is kind of a weird size for V-rated tires... The only thing available was a very expensive Michelin. I've got a couple thousand miles on the LS-H and don't see any problems whatsoever. I recommend them and even just put Turanza LS-T on my '02 CRV.
regards,
kyfdx
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Great all-season tires IMHO.
-mike
wonder what makes tires go bad like that.
other reviews on tire rack say the same about the dunlop