Tires, tires, tires

krzyss

I do believe that the biggest advantage of pure nitrogen fill is that it does not contain water, water vapour to be exact. Water with its capability to go from gas (vapour) to liquid, back and forth, in normal operating temperatures, makes air pressure change very unlinear in function of temperature (volume stays roughly the same in the tire).

Krzys

PS It is important with high operating temperatures like in racing.

tidester

Have you checked the temperature expansion coefficient for Nitrogen vs normal air?

I'm not even sure that there is such a thing as an "expansion coefficient" for a gas!

tidester, host

imidazol97

http://www.tirelast.com/id5.html

This links to a TRUCK tire research statement by a company who makes nitrogen generators. I read carefully and gleaned that the real problem is slightly oxygen 21% in the air and water vapor and only because of corrosion if wheel is not finished and is iron or if aluminum is not sealed. This probably isn't a difficulty on auto tires. I note they deal with tires going 125K to 250K.

The discussion talks about powder particles in the air causing small leaks past the seal in the tire valve. I've not noticed particles from corrosion in any wheels I have had dismounted.

The big point is that the dryers in regular air compressors aren't serviced and water is left to remain in compressed air tank, which increased water vapor induced into the tire.

Moral: Use dry compressed air in your tire.

imidazol97

"Not true. Air and nitrogen have exactly the same k-factor (relates to expansion) of 1.4. Stands to reason since air is 79% nitrogen."

I can't link to this since it's a discussion group. But my point was that air, nitrogen, and water vapor should all obey Boyle's law. That would be true down to the point where water vapor condensed into liquid under the temperature and pressure conditions within the tire. I don't plan to research my books about that characteristic. I doubt it's important in automobile tires.

kyfdx

Check your tire pressure regularly.. Admittedly, I'm kind of lax on that as well...

imidazol97

Another method might be to change the air in your tires each winter, when the air is lowest in humidity and do it at a station where there's a dryer on the compressor tank. Or you can give Chip Wood or what's-his-name at the tire store some extra money for his advertising.

kyfdx

LOL... but, seriously, they still have to compete on price for the same tires that everyone else sells. Some of them do have the latest Hunter road force balancer, which is nice, but I usually don't go there to buy tires. (They don't sell Bridgestone products, by the way). I use an independent, and now with my wife's car, switch out to winter tires anyway. Nitrogen is a marketing gimmick, but at least it can't hurt, and they don't charge extra. Hopefully the extra volume from their sales campaign keeps the prices down.

regards,
kyfdx

badgerfan

I think helium would even be better. If it's good for the Goodyear Blimps, it must be good! You might even float over bumps! LOL

Nitrogen in tires is a marketing gimmick. Now, time to change out the electrons in my battery, they get lazy if you don't do that once a month!

imidazol97

I have heard that you need to freshen the water in your battery annually. It absorbs oxygen from the air. Just upend the battery and drain the cells. Have fresh, distilled water to put back in. Then your battery will last much longer. The past battery maintenance methods have been inadequate -- just like tire maintenance. Imagine, using AIR in tires like we always have done!!!! LOL

This is a joke. Do not dispose of batteries or the fluid. They contain lead and lead sulphates. These are toxic. Your battery will not work with distilled water.

kyfdx

when you have to put disclaimers on your jokes? Print just isn't the same as being there...

msibille

Yeah, but you'd have to check your (helium) tire pressure several times each day. The small molecule slips thru pores that are easily plugged by larger nitrogen (70% of atmosphere) molecules.

badgerfan

True, but better than hydrogen. Can you imagine a nail penetrating a hydrogen filled tire, then providing an ignition spark as it contacts the road? This would take the term "blowout" to a whole new level.

krzyss

ground level ;-)

Krzys

PS I still think that using bottled gas (without humidity) is good thing, if you are going 140mph all the time. 2 valves per wheel help ;-)

idntnvu

My dad is looking at a '00 Buick LeSabre that the previous owner put a set of Mastercraft tires on. They're relatively new, probably don't even have 5k miles on them. There is one thing we noticed though. Around the edges, there is a big flap of rubber that makes the tires look awful. It looks exactly like a recapped tire. I know they don't allow recaps on cars anymore, but what gives? I know mastercraft is a very cheap brand, however my dad has mastercraft Sensys tires on both his '98 Grand Prix and a '93 Bonneville. I've never seen this sort of problem before. Anybody know what's up with this? I guess it's just the way they're made, but who would want a big flap of rubber protruding from the sidewall of their new tires?

imidazol97

a curb bumper to protect the sidewall. I recall seeing that a couple years back when I was shopping for tires. Looks a little strange, but if it keeps the sidewalls white and smooth longer...

capriracer

Another possibility this that some tire molds are made of pieces and one of those pieces is a tread ring. What you could be seeing is a bit of flash around that ring and where it mates to the sidewall plate. If this is true, the flap will be paper thin and occur just beyond the outer edge of the tread surface, sort of where the sidewall transitions to tread.

Hope this helps.

fish8

Why do you say Mastercraft Tires are cheap? They are Cooper Tires with a different name on the sides. Mastercraft is just a private label tire for Kaufmann Tire and possibly other Tire sellers.

automan64

My Ford Explorer SLT is all of a sudden acting "off balance" and rough when I turn the steering wheel one way or the other. This does not happen when going straight. The dealership blamed it on the tires cupping and rotated them for me even though the car has about 14K miles on it. What can be wrong?

idntnvu

Well, as anybody knows, the harder the tire compound, the cheaper the tire. I'm not saying the tires are cheap in Quality, just cheaper than most other tires. They are good tires, we've had them on the SSEi, the GP, a Mustang, (all were Sensys), but I'm not sure what the name of the tires on the LeSabre are. Thanks for the explanation on the ring around the tires capriracer. I'm sure thats what that is. It makes more sense now though, considering what just occured.
The car rides like a tire is out of balance at highway speeds (50-70mph), so I took it back to the dealer (an independent used car dealer) and had the tires balanced. They were just a smidgen off, and they also rotated front to rear and checked pressure. I noticed once the car was up on the lift that the tires are actually white walls with the white wall turned to the inside. The "outside" of the tire that is showing is actually intended to be the inside, thus the flap. However, after the balancing of the tires, the car still rides the same. We have a feeling it's because the car has been sitting a lot for the past 2 months, and barely driven. Once we get those tires warmed up they may even out, or so we hope!

edh

thanks - Many of the noise generators you can not control or change - road, vehicle -----, so between different brands of tires, how do you know which tire is quieter?
All/most manufacturers say their tires are quiet - how do YOU know which is really quiet
example - - the Mich symmetrys and dunlop a2 s seem to get a lot of noise complaint so how does a consumer find a quiet tire and what do YOU base YOUR opionions on? (the industry puts out no noise ratings)

imidazol97

I do not find the Symmetrys by Michelin on my LeSabre are noisy. Neither do I think the X-Ones on my LeSabre are noisy.

There are certain road surfaces (grooves or textures bridges on interstates evoke sympathetic vibrations and can be heard) that cause some noise but I found that true of other tires.

The longer the mileage from the tire, the more durable the tread will be and probably will be a little harder. If you want quieter tires, choose a tire that lasts 20,000 miles and you'll probably have quiet, not necessary as quiet as you think however.

The tread design plays an important role along with the tread rubber. My X-Ones were quieter on bridges until they wore down about 40% of their depth, now the block patterns have changed and I heard more noise.

capriracer

Boy, is this an old thread! I had to go back to understand where this was coming from. I apologize if this is redundant.

The problem with noise generation is that the tire tread pattern and the road macrotexture interact. This means that not only do you have to consider the road surface you are driving on, but how the tire interacts with it. There is just no way anyone is going to be able to quantify this without actually running the tire on the road surfaces in the area where you live. Take the tire a couple of hundred miles away where they use a different road pavement and the noise generation might change. So your best bet is to ask around and find out what works in your area.

"and what do YOU base YOUR opinions on?"

Personally, I am not concerned about road noise. If I need to, I turn up the radio.

However, if you are asking what would I do if I were confronted with the problem, I'd avoid tires with unvented grooves and sipes (OK, this is getting into tire engineering jargon) or tires that look pretty plain - keeping in mind these characteristics are counterproductive when it comes to foul weather traction. (The reason I don't worry about the noise!)

The reason the industry doesn't publish ratings (and the reason why customer surveys seem to be contradictory in this area) is because of the interaction mentioned above. It's just plain difficult to get a single VALID answer that covers every situation. There are just going to be some reversals no matter what!

I realize this doesn't answer your question, but I hope you understand that the question is just unanswerable in the general sense.

suvshopper4

Hey, y'all.

Need to replace Bridgestone Potenza's on an '02 Toyota Solara 4-cyl, P205/65R 15 92H.

Looking for good dry/wet/snow safety, smooth riding, low noise, decent price, and good tread life. High speeds not a concern.

Will be buying at a local independent retailer who can get most tire brands from his distributors. (Don't want to go the Tire Rack route this time, although no problems with them in the past.)

Any suggestions?

And does Bretfraz frequent this board any more?

Thanks.

kyfdx

Bridgestone Turanza LS-H.. pricy, but meet all of your requirements. I have 205/50-15 size on my Acura Legend, and really like them.

sandman46

Have these in a 195/60/15 on my Sentra and I can honestly say these are the best tires I've ever owned on any of my cars. A bit more than I wanted to spend, but very pleased so far!

The Sandman :-)

suvshopper4

Cost being a consideration, Turanzas may prove too pricey, from the sound of it.
[I do appreciate the suggestions, though. Thank you, guys. We may wind up going this route.]

Any other suggestions to replace the Potenzas on the Solara?

Thanks.

kyfdx

Price sensitive? Aren't we all..

BF Goodrich Traction T/A H-rated.. have pretty good ratings at about 2/3 the price of the Bridgestones..

Also.. try the Ask Connor at Tirerack board.. I'm sure he can give you a few alternatives.

eb12

You might want to consider Yokohama Avid H4S. The price should be around or less than BFG Traction T/A H. I have the V4S (only 1200 miles) and happy with them.

tidester

And does Bretfraz frequent this board any more?

I haven't seen him in here for about 4 months.

tidester, host

suvshopper4

Thanks, all.

Regards,
ss4

p.s. Bretfraz, phone home.

jetman767

Has anyone put Michelin HydroEdge tires on their minivan? Are you satisfied with them? What about the issue of "tire noise" I have read about on some post?
Your feedback with the HydroEdge is greatly appreciated!!!

wain

is the data wrong?
for a 2004 toyota highlander basic it shows two tires, one of which is a cross terrain SUV- a table compares the CT SUV to a LTX. In the table the CT SUV has a tread wear of 6 and an overall rating of 8.55.
when you click on the CT SUV (for more detail) the tread wear goes up to 9 and overall goes up to 8.85
which is right?

wain

Hydro edge tread LOOKS like it would be quiet - that is, it does not have millioms of small blocks, but then fewer bigger blocks are noisy too?
Shows how little we know about what visible tread design factors give a quiet tire.

when you talk about tread design and tire noise on this forum instead of answers the topic morphs into- road design - tire compounds car insulation time of day etc - all things that are factors - but what I think needs to be discussed is what TREAD DESIGN (visible pattern) characteristcs give a quieted tire.

Visible tread design things I have seen here that people say promote quietness are:
- Open sipes (vs closed)
- fewer tread blocks but not the lugged tire look?
- continuous center rib

Any others???
Or does no one know?????
All tire makers say every tire is quiet -

boomerbubba

No question is too stupid to ask, right?

I have a new Subaru Forester, with full-sized spare. Tire rotation seems to be more significant with the AWD.

If I have the tires rotated at one shop one time and a second shop the next time, etc., can I count on them using the same pattern of rotation? Or do I have to specify it?

It would seem silly to risk having the tires rotated back to their old position on the very next service interval.

If there is a standard, what is it?

wain

there are about 5 different patterns for tire rotation

wain

I got their reply they said the higher numbers are correct.

Their e mail to me (in the dear sir location) started:
DI ࡱ á

what does that mean - some type salutation?

paulcudlip

I have Michelin Hydroedges on my 1999 Camry and they are very quiet. They replaced Michelin X-Ones which were loud.

pathstar1

Is usually specified in the owners manual. Best to tell whoever does it to follow the manual. Otherwise there are a lot of possibilites. For example, often the spare is mounted on a "lower spec" wheel (steel instead of aluminum for example), so in that case you just rotate front to rear, or cross if you have tires that are ok with that. If you include the spare in the rotation, you could put it on either rear or either front wheel. There's four possibilites right there, plus two without the spare.

Who thought tire rotation could be complicated!

boomerbubba

...Is usually specified in the owners manual.

Right you are! It's an RTFM thing. My Subaru manual says to switch each side front-to-back, and not rotate the spare.

90mercsable

Yesterday, I purchased a set of 4 passenger car tires from a independent tire dealer. After I had to beg him to give me the DOT codes on them (isn't that a Federal Law for a dealer to supply them to you?), and copying them down myself, I found that 3 of them were manufactured between 1 to 1.5 years ago in 2003, and 1 of them was manufactured in OCTOBER 2001!

I would expect "new tires" to have been made within the past year, let's say, and I can be OK with the 2003 tires, but isn't the nearly 3 YEAR OLD tire is a BIT MUCH?

He wouldn't take it off the rim and replace it with another one.

Should I be concerned with this nearly 3 year old tire, and ABSOLUTELY demand a replacement?

lobsenza

I would be concerned. i insist on seeing the date code and it should be within the last 6 minths, in my opinion.

capriracer

A couple of thoughts:

Sometimes tire inventories, like other perishable items, linger a little long in the warehouse. So to reduce those inventories, those tires will be sold at a discount, sometimes a pretty deep discount. The purpose of the discount is to move the merchandise into the market place. So if the price of the tires purchased was pretty good, it is likely that the tires were part of this kind of program and that's why the price was good.

It is unreasonable to expect ALL tires to be within 6 months of production. Some exotic tires are only produced once a year because of the low demand. However, in this case a tire for a Taurus wouldn't qualify in the "Exotic" status. Still, 6 months is a little quick considering all the steps between the factory and the showrrom floor.

So long as tires are stored in a reasonably cool, and dry environment, 2 years after production is a reasonable window. Anything after that and the price ought to reflect this.

BTW, it is a Federal Law for tire dealers to provide the MEANS of recording the DOT number's, but the law doesn't say they have to do it. Many tire companies provide postcards where the DOT numbers are recorded and sent to a company that stores the data. It is a sorry statement when a tire dealer doesn't at least cooperate in this process.

(Last, but not least) I think the 2 1/2 year old tire ought to be an issue IF!!! the price paid was the standard price, or even only a slightly reduced price. If the tire dealer won't budge on the subject, then call the tire manufacturer and inform him. If it was one of the name brands, the manufacturer would be interested, but might not be able to do very much. If the tire was not a name brand, then it is still interesting information, but the manufacturer is almost powerless.

Hope this helps.

wain

if they made the date bigger and easier to read the dealers would probably sell the older ones earlier.

ruking1

Of the three vehicle types I have, there are at least three deviations: given the technical data!!! One is a 4 wheel drive, two wheel rear drive;front engine, front wheel drive; front engine,!!

The concept is pretty easy, given good balance and alignment: Put the least wearing tire on the position that wears the most.

However, the execution can be varied.

RTFM is a very good place to start. You might very well decide the oem specifications are the ticket. There can be significant deviation/s. Let me use the example that is probably more like your Suburu. VW Jetta TDI (front engine, front wheel drive) vs yours a front engine, front drive (primarily) with probably a % going to the rear under certain conditions?

OEM VW Jetta TDI recommends: a 4 tire, same side, front to rear; rear to front rotation.

What I really do : 5 tire, cross rotation

Why? 1. The right front tends to wear the most, 2. followed by the left front. 3.The right rear is next in line 4. followed by the left rear.

Analysis: If you keep the recommend tire rotation, the difference from side to side can be in practice as much as 1/32 MORE (and/or and MORE) on the right side. The oem method ensures that only two tires share the most wear position/s: right front(and to a lesser extent right rear). A cross rotation ensures that all 5 tires share the right front position. So say the variation of tire wear is 50-95k, 1/32 can represent as little as 6250 miles, to as much as 12,000 miles per 1/32 in. (obviously this depends on your road conditions and how you drive) So if 12-15k is the average yearly mileage, this 5 tire rotation can let one get a half to one extra year of wear before tires need to be changed.

Kirstie_H

For a story about plus-sized wheels, a reporter is looking to talk to drivers with plus-size wheels about how, if at all, the wheels have changed your driving experience, etc. If you would be willing to speak with this reporter, please contact Pam Krebs, Edmunds.com PR, at pkrebs@edmunds.com with your contact information. She will pass that along to the reporter who will contact you directly. Please respond by end-of-day Thursday, August 26. Thank you.

corvette

Comes down to personal preference. Most people only rotate the four main wheels. In fact, most cars have either a temporary spare or alloy wheels and a steel spare, so most people don't even have the option. And of those that do, few realize it! So, congratulations for being on top of things with your Jetta.

Personally, when the tires get down to 4-5-6/32, they start to get antsy in the rain, and I start thinking about replacement. So, a tire may not be legally or technically worn out until 2/32, but it begins to slip and slide in rain and snow well before that. If I had traction control, AND stability control, I MIGHT be able to run my tires down to the legal limit and have the electronic gizmos keeping me away from disaster, but it's easier to just replace what some might call "half worn" tires than to change driving habits.

toyotadriven

I am replacing Goodyear Integrity(OEM) on my Toyota Highlander FWD. I am almost sold on the Nokian WR. However, I have not seen them in person and I do not know how deep the "Hakka Sipes" are. From pictures they look like the are not FULL DEPTH. I do not want them wearing off in 20k. Living in northern MD we have about 10-12 weeks of possible light to heavy snows or freezing rain. I am wondering if Nokian Wr would be overkill ! The majority of Highlander owners are switching to Michelin CT or LTX M/S , they claim they are great in snow, and are quiet.
 Any help is appreciated.

phankane

After putting on new set of wheels and tires, my car is shaking at around 70 MPH. There is no noticable problem at 60 or 80 MPH. Is it wheels/ tires or aligment? I have the wheels balanced 3 times with not much improvement.

imidazol97

If you haven't been to a knowledgeable store to check for roundness and for rolling round, find a store having the Hunter balancer.

Check hunter.com and they have a front page place to click for a list of stores in your area, including dealers.
http://www.hunter.com/pub/product/balancer/index.htm

If you have problem tires and the store that balanced them 3 times is the selling store, they may not want to replace them.

sequoiasoon

Depends on your definition of "overkill". Search in this forum for Nokian as well as the snow tires forum. The WR's are a great all around tire, read back to my posts. If I had to buy one tire this would be it. I use them as my "summer" tires on my Corolla because they are excellent in the wet as well as handling very good in dry. My sister will be buying her second set this fall for her Intrepid because of how much better it was in wet and snow as compared to Eagle LS that came on her car. She's had these for about 45k and runs them year round. The Michelin CT will probably be a little quieter and give you a little better mileage (less rolling resistance). I've had mine on the car for 15k and have a little more than 8/32 tread left. For me driving everyday, traffic doing 75-80 mph I'll get probably 40-45k out of them. If you want the best "foul weather" get the WR. If you want a little longer life and extremely quiet that will do well in 90% of what you'll get in MD get the CT's. I'd rather sacrifice a little service life to know I have the best for the worst conditions. Unfortunately the WR's do not come in the 17" size I need for my Sequoia so I will be getting the CT's for it as my summer tires. I have Nokians mounted on some factory 16" rims that I use for winter.