Tires, tires, tires

edh

many aftermarket products IMHO are junky

and many china products are crap - I have bought China made galvanized nails from lowes rusted in the box, and when i worked for the navy the supply sysytem bought some chinese shackles that the pin would not screw in since the two holes in the shackle did not line up!!!!!!

so aftermarket + china made + = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

edh

anyone check rotor runout on front discs?

ny540i6

With all due respect, aftermarket wheels are like just about anything else - you get what you pay for. Wheels made by major manufacturers can have the same hub size and bolt spacing as OEM, and don't require centering rings. I've had aftermarket wheels on several cars over the last 20 years - BBS, Fikse, OZ, to name a few, and my snow tires are mounted on a set of Borbets.

My advice is to stick with a major manufacturer, stay away from "universal" applications, probably deal with a place like the Tirerack (not shilling for them, however my experience has ALWAYS been great, for both wheels and tires), and be prepared to justify shooting a mortgage payment on wheels

sandman46

After much deliberation, I think I'll just keep the steelies and the bolt on wheel covers at this point. Really don't want the aggravation that might occur...and the car drives great as it is.
Luckily ny540i6, we've been mortgage free since the summer of 1996. That's what happens when the other half is a CPA!

The Sandman :-)

ny540i6

Sorry... I left the most obvious choice off the list! LOL. Continue to "run what you brung". Much lower maintenance costs, and gets the job done. I'd suggest springing for decent rubber at some point - Not as visible a change, but the safety/mileage/performance benefits can be substantial.

sandman46

Put on Turanza LS-T's about 1000 miles ago and the difference is simply amazing, it changed the whole way the car responds. Fantastic in wet and and even better in dry conditions. Worth every cent I paid! Luckily my old high school friend is the store manager and gave me his discount!

The Sandman :-)

snarks

Thanks, the vibration did change from the floor however to the steering wheel (a bit) after the rotation. After the rotation there is very little left, just a suttle amount in the steering wheel. I take it as defective tires although the bridgestone dealer said they were ok.

imidazol97

You could be feeling a little runout in the bolt pattern on the wheel.

oldbiker

I tore a small hole in the side of one tire, Pirelli Scorpion Zero with about 20,000 miles and 5.5mm (7/32 inch) thread left. This is on a 4wd SUV--285/55-18.

The obvious option is to replace both (front) tires--at $190 each that adds up quick. Even then, 4wd may put too much stress on the center diff because of the differing tire sizes between front and rear--not that I am planning any 4wd excursions.

Can I get just one replacement and shave it to match the others... TireRack seems to do this.

Has anyone tried this before? Any advice or suggestions?

kyfdx

If you have a full-size spare, you could buy one tire, but have two new ones to put on the front.. I doubt a little wear will be detectable by the 4WD system..

regards,
kyfdx

snarks

It depends on the 4wd system in the particular vehicle. Subaru AWD specifies more than 1/4" wear in one tire vs others requires full replacement of all four tires, wherever the tires are located.

cornellpinoy

In the other forum you posted this is for a Tahoe. If its just a part-time 4WD, you may not need to shave anything at all.

oldbiker

Many thanks for the responses.

Will the thread size difference not be a problem when the new tire eventually gets rotated to the rear? (I agree that it probably makes little difference up front because it will seldom go 4wd.)

Alas, my full size spare matches the original factory tires, the Pirellis were aftermarket add-ons.

Cheers, OB

capriracer

If the tire and wheel assemblies were measured at 4 pounds, then none of the tires is defective. (none of the wheels, either) If merely rotating the assemblies to different positions really helps, then I would look for an out of balance assembly or a wheel to hub mounting issue.

Hope this helps.

snarks

What is an out of balance assembly mean? Is that the whole wheel/tire?

capriracer

Out of balance:

Since it is impossible to make things perfect, tires and wheels use weights to conteract the imperfections in weight (mass) distribution around the wheel (and tire).

What the road force machine did was measure the "out of roundness" the tire and wheel, as an assembly. (OK, it's not quite that simple, but without going into the detail, this is close.)

It is expected that a tire and wheel assebly will require some balance weights, and so it is standard practice to balance every tire and wheel assembly to within some tolerance. It is expected that the vehicle will be unsensitive to off balance within that tolerance.

It is also expected that a tire and wheel assembly will have some amount of "road force". In many cases matching the tire and wheel will reduce the force to within a certain tolerance. It is expected that the vehicle will not be sensitive to that tolerance.

Further, there are other things that can be out of balance or have runout - brake rotors, bearings, hubs, etc. - and it is expected that the vehicle will not be sensitive to the situation where everything is at its maximum value. Unfortunately, there are several vehicle there are exceedingly sensitive. I haven't heard that any Subaru's are on that list, but perhaps they are borderline and you godd a poor example.

Hope this helps.

isellhondas

At the suggestion of a friend, I had the tires "siped" on my wife's CRV yesterday. I paid 40.00 to have this done, and after looking at the tires afterwards, I can barely detect the siping that was done.

The guy at the tire store swore this would imporve wet weather performance by 30%.

I'm starting to think I've been had?

Anyone have any thoughts/experience?

driftracer

when I lived in Wyoming, and although it only looks like a bunch of razor blade cuts, the difference in wet weather and ice was huge. When driving on ice, you could actually hear (if you rolled down your window when it was 20 degrees out) the little cuts sticking to teh road - like a bunch of little suction cups.

It makes a bigger difference, though, on a blocky tread design like an all-terrain or mud tire for a bigger truck than on an all-weather radial like you're putting on a CRV - those all-weather tires already have siping as a design, so the difference may not be as dramatic. Still, there'll be a difference.

ny540i6

Siping works. It was also smarter to roll the window down - getting your ear frozen to the inside of the glass is ugly.

18fan

Isell: I was also wondering about this. I am looking at replacing the OEM tires on my car before winter (which are showing rapid wear for only 11K miles). The tire dealer is strongly pushing siping the tires... I had never heard of this before. If it makes a difference as Drift describes, maybe it is worth the extra $40 to have it done. The only question I have, though, is how long does it last? If they are little "cuts" in the tread, I would think that as the tire wears, the benefit of these little cuts would eventually disappear as the tread wears down beyond the depth of the cuts.

driftracer

are usually 90% as deep as the tread depth, so they don't go away until the tire is worn out.

paisan

The tires will overheat quicker due to more rollover but I wouldn't worry about it much. Siping is great for water evacuation IMHO, we do it to off-road tires often.

-mike

davidkeith37

Just punctured the sidewall on a Bridgestone Dueler HT 687 M & S at 1200 miles on a 2004 Hyundai Santa Fe , 2wd 2.4L motor. I doubt if Bridgestone will warrenty it and if not will go to Discount Tire as they have always treated us well.Discount carries a GEOLANDER HTS P 225/70R-16. Is that a good choice and can the Geolander enter into rotation or should I keep it as a spare only untill I need to buy another Geolander then put both on the same axle? My driving does include some dirt and gravel road driving but mainly want a tire for paved Interstate high speed, up to 85 mph, and high temperature resistance here in Southern AZ. I hope never to ever drive in snow or on ice again so snow and ice are not a considration. Thanks.

luvboxrs

I can't keep the vibration/wobble out of the steering of my 03 Toyota Landcruiser. I rotate and it gets worse. I've had it back at the tire place umpteen times looking at rotation, balance, everything to figure out why I can't get a smooth ride out of the tires. This has been an issue for the last 20k miles or so.

Is my problem the tires?

They are the tires I bought the vehicle with--Goodyear Grandtreks. I have 18" Foose wheels. I have 34k miles on these tires.

I'm tempted to go buy new tires even though I don't quite need them yet, but do you think that will solve my problem? I do rotate every oil change.

Any opinions??

luvboxrs

I can't keep the vibration/wobble out of the steering of my 03 Toyota Landcruiser. I rotate and it gets worse. I've had it back at the tire place umpteen times looking at rotation, balance, everything to figure out why I can't get a smooth ride out of the tires. This has been an issue for the last 20k miles or so.

Is my problem the tires?

They are the tires I bought the vehicle with--Goodyear Grandtreks. I have 18" Foose wheels. I have 34k miles on these tires.

I'm tempted to go buy new tires even though I don't quite need them yet, but do you think that will solve my problem? I do rotate every oil change.

Any opinions??

pathstar1

This has been a big topic with Nissan Pathfinders, and that was with the stock 16" wheels. The solution is to find a place that has the Hunter 9000 road force balancing machine. Their website lists them. Proper use of this machine fixed up all the Pathfinder problems that were reported on this board. It can correct for "out of round" wheels as well as tires. Your aftermarket wheels may not be mounted perfectly centred on the hubs.

tntitan

I have a 2004 Accord LX with manual transmission and the 4 banger. When I purchased the vehicle I had aftermarket wheels that Zeuslewis helped me select waiting at the house with Dunlop AP Sport 215/50/R17 tires. I also have an aftermarket sound system so I am not too concerned about road noise since I can't hear it anyway. I am 51 and don't drive too fast but I do drive pretty aggressively and almost all of my mileage is around town. My big concern is wet weather traction. The Dunlops were inexpensive and they have been everything I wanted in a tire except they only have 16K miles and I am thinking I may replace them already. I could easily get 25-30K out of them but I feel like I am beginning to lose a little wet weather traction and that is when I start looking.

I wanted to check out the Goodyear Assurance tire but they have no plans to make my size during 2005. The only 17 tire they will be making before the end of 205 is 215/55/R17.

Costco has some really nice looking Michelin MXM tires in my size but they are $209 each less a $60 rebate and will probably only get around 30-35K as well.

It seems like I should be able to do better than this. Are there not any good wet weather tires that I could get 40-50K miles. I know good traction and long mileage are not very compatible but I don't need a high performance tire....just good handling in the rain.

Any suggestions from you tire gurus?

driftracer

and here's what I'd recommend in order of preference and status:

Yokohama AVS ES100 - W-rated

Dunlop FM901 - V-rated

Yokohama Avid V4S - V-rated

Dunlop Sport A2 - H-rated

Dunlop SP Sport 5000 Symmetrical - V-rated

Pirelli P7000 Supersport - V-rated

These are all at the Tire Rack, in stock, and range from $101-114 each, plus shipping. I'm not a hard-core Michelin fan, given years of experience, and not being able to justify the extra 50-100% cost differential with handling results.

luvboxrs

pathstar1--
What I didn't tell you is that I sold a 2001 Pathfinder to buy this 03 Landcruiser. I was thinking I was crazy when the same problem I had in the PF started up in the LC!

No, I never got the PF problem solved, I sold it before I did. But you're right, it feels like the exact same issue.

I'll find someone with the Hunter 9000 and see if I can't get this problem solved once and for all. Thanks for your help!

tntitan

Thanks for the recommendations. I was looking at the Yoko Avid V4S as best fitting my application (I am willing to give up the additional handling from an Ultra High Performance for a little better mileage and more comfortable ride) but would prefer to buy locally and these are hard to find. I may end up getting them at tirerack anyway.

How would the Bridgestone Potenza G009 compare to these tires? It is available at Tirerack and I was wondering if it was just not as good as the others you recommended. If so, what area would I be compromising?

This one shop is really convenient and I was hoping to buy from them but I told them I trusted your opinion more than theirs. They wanted to know why and I said because I got just what I wanted when you recommended my wheels and tires.

ramped

Hope this isn't off topic. I wondered if anyone knew the best way to touch up alloy wheels.

I christened my new Mazda 6s today by clipping a curb in the parking lot of my daughter's elementary school. It has some pretty good scrapes around the edges, next to the tire. Any suggestions?

driftracer

In that comparison, I still like the Yokohama better - it's V-rated, but has the same or better treadwear - the Bridgetone is H-rated - you'll get sharper handling with the V-rated tire, and if there's no treadwear difference, that's a great way to go.

tntitan

I am ordering the Yokohama Avid V4S and having them installed locally. The treadwear rating is actually a little higher on the Yoko and everything else looks good on the Tirerack comparison (which doesn't really mean that much to me without your input).

No doubt that these low profile high performance tires cost more and don't last as long .... but they sure are fun for driving and look a lot better IMHO. I am definitely going to rotate them @3K miles instead of 5K this time around.

The Dunlop AP Sports that were only on the front for 5K still look pretty good but the tires that were on the front for 11K are damn near down to the wear bars. Hoping that with more frequent rotations I will get 25-30K on these Yoko's.

driftracer

you can get 40-45k out of some performance tires, but you'll sacrifice lots of stick and handling.

suvshopper4

I ~think~ I read that a tire's treadwear rating is not an absolute, standardized, apples-to-apples number, but that it is the relative rating within a particular brand, and can't be compared accurately between two brands of tires.

Anyone know for sure?
Thanks.

driftracer

each treadwear rating can only be compared to other tires within the brand. It's fair to say that a 500 TW Dunlop would last longer than a 140 TW Michelin, but other comparisons have to use the art of generalistic assumptions...

pathstar1

Almost all the aluminum wheels are painted. So to fix a scrape, you would have to file smooth the "grooves" scraped into them and then use paint. Touchup paint can be used for small areas, but removal of the tire and valve stem, stripping of all the paint on the wheel, and complete repainting is the only way to get back to "good as new". Note if much material is taken off by filing you will have a balance issue to address. It does take a lot of filing of aluminum to throw it out much though.

capriracer

Here's the "scoop"!

There is a government standardized test that is supposed to be used to develop the treadwear rating for each tire. The test consists of a standard tire - the same for every company - and the test consists of a perscribed route on a pair of (or more) vehicles where the tires are swapped between vehicles to eliminate the vehicle effect.

HOWEVER, the government allows the rating to be TRACEABLE to this test, mainly to reduce the cost of testing particularly when the standard tire is a totally different size than the tire being compared to.

Add to this that there are different philosphies regarding the way this test should be applied to the rating. Some companies are conservative in their rating and some are quite aggressive.

And don't forget that sometimes a company might get great results on a given test, but the rating might be out of line when compared to the rest of their lineup.

So the key is that the ratings must be taken with a grain of salt (maybe the whole shaker?), but that the rating has to be justifiable - in other words a tire can't be rated beyond what the test results show.

Hope this helps.

driftracer

in the same tire, over a 2-3 year period of time, with no redesign...is this just marketing aimed towards people JUST looking at the treadwear numbers?

For instance, the Dunlop Qualifier used to carry a 300 rating, now it's at 440, the BF Goodrich Radial T/A is now 400, used to be 290, and the Dunlop Sport A2 is now 420, was 260....

There are several tires (now) with ratings of 500 or above....has to be marketing, since a 500 TW tire should have the soft, supple feel of marble...

lobsenza

May vary by size?

stever

The Toyo 800 Ultra's on my minivan have a 700 UTQG treadwear - can't figure why they call them 800's.

"tread wear ratings are assigned by the manufacturers following field testing and are most accurate when comparing tires of the same brand."

Wheels and Tires

"The most important thing to remember: Don't compare the UTQG rating of Brand A Tire B to Brand B Tire B. Unless you're comparing tires of the same brand, the numbers won't provide any insight into the pair's correlations or differences."

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Steve, Host

edh

I guess a key point (I think)is that the test tire is not a DOT test tire but a test tire of that company, and thats what they then compare the tire being tested to?

capriracer

As explained above, there is a standard DOT tire (a specific size and design - I think it is a Uniroyal) that every tire company is supposed to compare to, but circumstances may dictate that the comparison is made to some other tire, usually something made by the tire company doing the testing. Those circumstances include the problem of differing tire sizes, availablility of the standard tire, cost of testing, etc.

The net result is also filtered.

It's pretty complex and simple statements don't quite explain the situation adequately.

Now to explain why a tread wear rating might dramatically change while it is in production, but with no apparent change in the tire itself:

Sometimes, the first production runs are made before the testing actually takes place. In order to avoid hassles with the feds, a conservative, easily defendable rating will be applied, then after the test is run the value will be changed.

It is also possible that there was a change in compound. Because rubber technology is constantly moving forward, a breakthrough might be made that can improve one particular property - such as wear - without sacrficing another - say wet traction.

Further, sometimes the market will dictate that a change is needed in the compromise between 2 or more of the properties. For example, Original Equipment tires are generally made with low rolling resistant compounds (so the vehicle manufacturers can meet CAFE requirements). When this tire is no longer supplied to the OEM, it will revert to the regular compound - a rolling rsistance increase, but an improvment in wear.

Hope this helps.

ramped

Thank you for the information

wnichols

This is listed as a 50K mi tire. Mine have been religiously rotated at 5K and kept at 45 psi (50 max) on my 2000 Sierra. They have lots of tread left at 35K. No overloading has taken place.

One tire has developed chopping on the tread and took 4.5 oz to balance (also possible belt separation on this tire) and the opposite one took 2.5 oz. Just rotated to front and experiencing shaking/vibration through the steering wheel.

What can be done with this scenario and will Bridgestone do anything to alleviate the problem?

18fan

Please tell me about your experience with the Toyos on your van. I am considering them to replace the OEM Continentals on my Camry, and am having challenges finding "objective" information on them (without the accompanying sales pitch!) What I have heard has been positive, but I would like to hear from someone who owns them and drives on them. Do they provide good grip, traction, etc in inclement weather? (rain, snow, ice, etc) Would you buy another set of Toyos when this set wears out?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

capriracer

Usually when a tire develops a vibration it is irregular wear, caused by misalignment, and aggravated by low inflation pressures and infrequent rotations. Since this is something outside control of the tire manufacturer, it is not a warrantable condition.

If indeed the tire is separated, it would be warrantable, but my experience is that WAY too many folks at the tire store level confuse irregular wear with separations. So on the one hand you might find someone who isn't quite as knowledgeable as he should be (and you'll get an adjustment), but on the other hand, you'll be told something is terribly wrong, when it isn't

BTW, it only takes a couple of hundred miles for a separation to go from a barely detectable vibration to a tread coming off. So if you've been feeling this vibration gradually getting worse over the last 2,000 miles, then is not a separation.

OR

If the vibration has been getting worse and you can feel it change in only a hundred miles - then drive very slowly to a tire store and get the tire taken off ASAP!!!

Hope this helps.

stever

Hi 18fan, the van has 97,000 miles and the tires are rated for 100k, so they may be the last set :-)

I had Michelin X Ones before after the OEM Generals (ugh) wore out and they were fine for 2+ years and then seemed to get a bit unresponsive or something. People like to rave about their new tires in general when they are new, but tires seem to get stale after a few years of use. I intended to get a cheaper tire and replace it in two or three years, but...

There's a tire chain within 3 miles of my house that's got a good reputation but I wasn't convinced that I wanted their house brand and the Toyo's seem as good, reputation wise, as the other majors. I was thinking about the newer Michelins (Harmony?) but they were a bit hard to find at the time.

I live in Boise and we don't get that much rain or snow in the valley. The Toyos were a bit loud to my wife (primary driver) the first few days but she either tuned them out or they broke in fast. We have a 140' gravel drive that climbs 40 or 50 feet, and the van could only make it half way up in 4 inches of snow last winter. The X-Ones did a bit better in snow I think, but both of these are all-season tires (I have chains just in case).

If I didn't have the Subaru to use to get to the ski hill I might have looked into a more aggressive tire (or get these siped), but the Toyo's seem nice and smooth to me when I cruise around in the van and I usually don't notice that they are there. Our mpg didn't change.

So 80% of my decision was convenience, and the Toyo Ultra blurb about them being well suited for minivans was the rest. I think they probably shine more as a commuter and highway tire than an all-arounder fire road/twisty/ski hill going tire. Twistys in the minivan wasn't a big factor, lol. Compared to the OEMs, both the X-One's and the Ultras are in a whole 'nother league.

Steve, Host

wnichols

Thanks for the reply, capriracer. I have not had alignment or low pressure problems with these tires and have rotated every 5K.

This problem only came to light last week when the tires were rotated to the front and balanced again. This is when the vibration came to light. It is not present except at highway speeds. The truck's ride was flawless before.

So would this indicate separation? My repair shop offered to rotate the tires to the back again so that I wouldn't notice the problem. I'd like to get more miles out of these tires, but not at the risk to occupant's safety.

stever

I was telling my wife about a Sienna owner's unfortunate experience with run-flat tires over breakfast this morning and she asked what the cops are going to do now that you can keep driving after running over a spike strip.

Will we see a rash of minivan minimart holdups or will the typical spike strip shred a runflat tire sufficiently to stop the crooks?

Steve, Host