The Stock Market and Investing

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  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Last week was very interesting and most of my stocks did very well. Lot's of things going on in the political arena...some good, some bad. I am curious to see how it all turns out.

    Still hanging with AAPL. Buying some on down days and taking profits now and then on up days while still maintaining a couple of hundred shares.

    I hope Tag is doing well. The way the market is up one day and down the next fits right into his way of investing. If he is in the right rhythm he is cleaning up ! It would be nice to hear from him.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    edited July 2012
    Hello Mr. Houdini!

    It's been very quiet here lately, but it is summer and folks are quite busy I imagine. I know I certainly have no had a spare moment. Severe drought in the Midwest has kept me on my toes almost 24 hours a day. After taking almost a year off from trading commodities for various reasons, I started to get into it again in a very serious fashion about 2 months ago. I saw a great opportunity this season with a drought evolving in the Cornbelt. So, these days, I am in front of the computer screen an awful lot. So far so good with my trading of corn and soybeans. But it is incredibly volatile and sensitive to every weather model that comes out. After trading this stuff, trading stocks is like watching paint dry if you know what I mean.

    We have been incredibly warm/hot here all spring following a very mild winter. In fact, that was the analogue I used. Very warm winters are almost always followed by warmer than normal summers. The fact that we had the warmest and one of the driest springs on record only added to my confidence about a hot and dry summer. The crops are suffering beyond belief across about 80-90% of the Cornbelt. There have been numerous record high temperatures already with very little rain. Therefore, the corn futures have been going to the moon. Beans have also been very strong but the most important month for beans is August.

    It's great to hear you are having success in your AAPL trading. I have just been sitting back and watching it do its thing. It has been quite frustrating at times when it dives for almost no reason at all. But it has been a very happy ride the past week or so. I am keeping ALL my shares until the stock reaches at least $1000. It will get there. This Company is from another planet.

    Btw, my MacBook Pro with retina display arrived today. I haven't had much time to play with it yet, but from what I have seen it AWESOME. I have to learn all the tricks of using it properly now. Maybe Len can give me some pointers.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    edited July 2012
    Good story here on the massive valuaton differences between Amazon and Apple. Amazon is so badly overvalued and IMO in a position of nowhere to go but down in its multiple. A bad operating quarter can cut this stock 25-40% in valuation and suddenly you are looking at a Netflix like revaluation. As it is Wall street keeps giving it a pass on earnings disappointments (last quarter was actually a massive rally on a lousy quarterly report) but I think the company is out of excuses now. The states will eventually win their sales tax battle with Amazon and that will also hurt it. I think the big ticket sales will be impacted the most at that point. Just noting the financial discrepancies between Apple and Amazon noted in the article and how Wall Street just seems to disregard Apples incredible figures is mind boggling to me.

    http://beta.fool.com/equitybull/2012/07/03/apple-stock-at-7756-this-year/6573/?s- - - ource=eogyholnk0000001

    BTW - Apple's earnings are July 24th. I think the share price rises into the 600's ahead of earnings. Last time we got the rise and then a big drop in the week before earnings and then a $50 rise with the earnings announcement. Whether or the not the $700 price is realized in the next 6 weeks is dependent on whether or not we get that drop just before earnings again. I tend to doubt we see that drop because the valuation remains way too low.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Len, sorry I did not respond sooner. I did not look at a computer Tuesday afternoon and all day yesterday. I feel like I have been a slave the past several weeks for reasons stated on my post above. But, it has been worth it so far.

    This Motley Fool guy makes too much sense for Wall Street. Awesome article and analysis. AAPL has been doing very well the past couple weeks. I love it. I imagine that we will see the $700 handle after the earnings report. I doubt people will be selling this stock going into the report.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Speaking of Motley Fool, here is an article that would make Tagman very happy and I believe proven right about Apple's plan for a 7-8 inch iPad since he was quite certain that this would come to fruition.The Wall Street Journal also reported this today and in fact, this was supposedly one reason for AAPL rallying sharply once again.

    http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2012/07/05/are-the-ipad-mini-rumors-finall- y-real.aspx
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    And here's a story why the whole process of making an iPad mini is not such a big deal. What will draw people in is the cheap price so how about lowering the price of the past gen iPad to $299-349 to compete on price for that demographic buying segment.

    Institutions may be loading up on Apple in anticipation of a breakout on the share price plus it's a safety heaven in advance of earnings.

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/704341-apple-poised-for-continued-growth-but-not- -because-of-ipad-mini?source=yahoo
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    edited July 2012
    I agree with the article above that the iPad mini will not add much to Apple's bottom line. However, I believe it will hurt the competition quite a bit. In any case, I am MUCH more excited about what the partnership with China Mobil will provide for Apple a few months from now. The sky is the limit!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    This interview lays out what has happened to capitalism over the last 30 years. Not much reason to trust anyone involved.

    http://billmoyers.com/segment/david-stockman-on-crony-capitalism/
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Let's file this away and see who was most accurate when Apple reports earnings.

    http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/08/how-many-ipads-did-apple-sell-last-quarte- r-2/?source=yahoo_quote
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    I vote for the independents!! :D
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    I do believe there is a lot of truth to this. Money talks and I don't care if we are dealing with Democrats or Republicans.

    Here's a story that broke out this afternoon. It could turn into a mini MF Global fiasco. I use to have an account with this firm about a year and a half ago. Fortunately I closed out thst account and did not get caught this time. It just does not stop:

    http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/prominent-cedar-falls-businessman-hospitalized-- after-suicide-attempt/article_0108e02a-ca07-11e1-95c8-0019bb2963f4.html
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    edited July 2012
    Amazing spread in the numbers. I'd go with the more recent indepedents. Most of the conservative professional predictions are early ones. Andy Zaky with 20 million predicted is the best Apple forecaster IMO and I've been following him for years. Usually he is just under the real numbers.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Here are a lot more details of the impending PFGBest collapse. Very familiar and very sad.

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/pfgbest-liquidating-operation-laying-off-hundre- ds-2012-07-09
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Andy Zaky with 20 million predicted is the best Apple forecaster IMO and I've been following him for years. Usually he is just under the real numbers.

    No question about it. Andy is THE BEST.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Apple Removes Green Electronics Certification From Products

    Apple has pulled its products off the U.S. government-backed registration of environmentally friendly electronics.

    Apple asked EPEAT, the electronics standards setting group, to pull its 39 certified desktop computers, monitors and laptops, which included past versions of the MacBook Pro and MacBook Air, off the list of green products late last month, Robert Frisbee, CEO of EPEAT told CIO Journal. EPEAT, created through funding by the federal Environmental Protection Agency and manufacturers, awards products a seal to certify they are recyclable and designed to maximize energy efficiency and minimize environmental harm.

    In order to meet the standards, recyclers need to be able to easily disassemble products, with common tools, to separate toxic components, like batteries. The standards were created jointly by manufacturers, including Apple, advocacy groups and government agencies. Frisbee says an Apple staff member told him at the end of June that the company no longer wanted Apple computers to be listed as EPEAT certified.

    “They said their design direction was no longer consistent with the EPEAT requirements,” Frisbee said. The company did not elaborate, Frisbee said. “They were important supporters and we are disappointed that they don’t want their products measured by this standard anymore.”


    http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2012/07/06/apple-removes-green-electronics-certificatio- n-from-products/
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    I thought of you when this story broke and hoped that you did not have an account there. Thank goodness you did not !!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    How so?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Well, Apple has taken a lot of Flack over using slave labor to make their products in China. Now they don't want to be considered a green electronics maker? Or am I missing something?

    These are standards Apple helped create. It could impact sales to schools etc that require Green products when purchasing. Non replaceable batteries would keep me from buying any product.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Thank you.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Apple Quitting Green Registry Leads to Purchasing Fallout

    San Francisco’s 50 departments and 28,000 employees will no longer be able to use city funds to buy Apple desktops, laptops or monitors because the Cupertino, California-based company dropped out of a rating system called EPEAT to track the environmental impact of computers, Jon Walton, the city’s chief information officer, said yesterday in an interview. The city’s policy doesn’t apply to iPhones and iPads, he said.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-11/apple-quitting-green-registry-leads-to-- purchasing-fallout.html
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Charlie you might want to read Abelson in this week`s Barrons.....Alot about Greece......Tony
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Dragon Systems, the Bakers’ “third child,” was put up for sale at a bankruptcy auction. Visteon acquired some of Dragon’s technology. ScanSoft bought the bulk of it and went on to become a $7 billion giant, with a licensing deal with Apple.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/business/goldman-sachs-and-a-sale-gone-horribl- y-awry.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

    I don't believe you can trust anyone in the financial industry. Buyer Beware.....
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    edited July 2012
    Thanks Tony! I found the article by Abelson. His comments about the German occupation of Greece in the early to mid 1940s and its consequences opened up my eyes. Of course I already knew a lot of this story but it is good to be reminded of the human misery, poverty, and general economic disaster that was the result of this German occupation.

    I was very surprised to read, however, in the early portion of the article that Abelson made a huge blunder. He mistakenly kept referring to Cedar Rapids, IA as the headquarters of PFGBest and how its founder, Russell Wasendorf did so much for that city (as it turns out using stolen money over the years). Well, guess what Mr. Abelson? PFGBest has basically nothing to do with Cedar Rapids. The PFGBest headquarters was in Cedar Falls, IA (a much smaller city in northeast IA).
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    edited July 2012
    Evil, evil, evil! That's what Goldman Sachs is.
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  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Any predictions on earnings results?

    AAPL started off on the up side but is now down a couple of bucks last time I looked.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    I`m not going to `play` this quarter.....The accountants can do what they want, so any number is what it is--just a number :) Sentiment is alot of people (myself included) are waiting for the next phone.......Just on a personal note, I am not so enamored with the i/pad....too heavy to read with, and very sensitive to the touch, and alot of things really are not what I hoped for...... My wife likes it though Tony
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    edited July 2012
    Tony,

    That's too bad. I absolutely love the iPad as does everyone in the family. Even my wife has grasped it and uses it often now. I prefer reading the NY Times everyday on the iPad over the actual paper now.

    Let's reference my post 7596 later today after earnings to see which of the analysts in the table on the link in that post got things right about iPad sales. My bet is Andy Zaky.

    In case anyone missed it I read a story today that while Apple is stockpiling cash overseas it is also accruing the taxes on that cash every quarter (now to the tune of $10.5bln). So if they want to bring the cash into the US the taxes have already been expensed in the P&L. That 10.5bln dwarfs Amazon's earnings for years and represents what could have been a 13% higher net income and probable 13% higher stock price. I've been tracking Apple cash to earnings for years now and almost always noted that the cash growth was greater than the contributing earnings and this tax accrual is probably the reason why. Most companies hope for a repatriate holiday (so no accrual) and if that happens Apple probably gets to reverse a good chunck of that accrual in a profit windfall. Just to show how far Apple has come that $10.5 bln accrual represents nearly a years worth of earnings back in say 2009 or 2010. I read the story on the CNBC RT app on the iPad. I'll try to find it on-line and link it.

    To make things simple here's the link in post 7596.

    http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/08/how-many-ipads-did-apple-sell-last-quarte- - r-2/?source=yahoo_quote
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Houdini,

    My guess is between $12 and $12.50.

    Here's some of that story on Apple having already accrued the repatriate taxes.

    http://phys.org/news/2012-07-apple-phantom-taxes-billions-profit.html

    Tony - with Apple I worry more about under-reported earnings. Just the fact that they are accruing the repatriate tax monies shows you how responsibly they act. These are the highest quality earnings I'ver ever seen and are almost always less than their actual cash flow gains.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    My guess $11.50

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Being optimistic, this could be a good buying opportunity !!!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Well Len, you can't win'em all. I also thought it would be a very bullish earnings report. But this is just a chance for people to go long AAPL now. Obviously, the world economic situation along with people waiting for the new iPhone to be released this October were the major reasons on why this earnings report missed. I am honestly not worried about it. By late this year (if not sooner), those of us owning AAPL will be smiling again.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    One of the most glaring examples of the cronyism that has ground the process to a halt can be seen in the lack of any real action against former MF Global chief Jon Corzine.

    Sixty-five members of Congress have signed a letter to Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. requesting that he appoint a special prosecutor to investigate MF Global’s collapse and the loss of $1.6 billion in customer money. As the New York Times has noted, “Mr. Holder has the ultimate authority to decide whether a special counsel is necessary.”

    Some contend that the fact that Mr. Holder, Mr. Corzine and Associate Attorney General Tony West all previously served as fundraising “bundlers” for President Obama’s presidential campaign is enough to warrant Mr. Holder’s recusal and the appointment of a special prosecutor. Indeed, a letter signed by 65 members of Congress cites Mr. Corzine’s $500,000 in fundraising for Mr. Obama as one of the reasons a special counsel is needed. A subsequent report by Bloomberg revealed that MF Global had written clauses into bond offerings indicating that Mr. Corzine, a former Democratic U.S. senator and governor of New Jersey, might join a future Obama administration as a Cabinet officer, a revelation that surprised even experienced Wall Street executives


    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jul/25/no-justice-in-corzine-case/
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    I went to the Verizon store and scoped out the Galaxy....It looked fine to me, and I would have gotten it, if I felt comfortable about synching things together....I also purchased the next osx from Apple, and of course I didn`t know what I was getting myself into...Took hours to download, then I found I had to pay to get the newspaper, which I din`t with tho last system....I have also had to re-do the passwords etc , including for this site......

    So far I don`t know how to use the `cloud` nor the voice part, but I`l figure it out somehow.....I think Apple should have already done the faster connection 4 instead of 3, and if their new phone doesn`t have the size right, they may be in for a world of hurt......The current sized screen is small , but all will be forgive with a larger screen, and really `all` if the wifi spot on the mobile enables me to use just it, plugged in.....Tony
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Tony,

    All these little details are definitely annoying. I don't know much more than you do about all this "stuff". For example, the new Mountain Lion OSX is now ready to be downloaded for my new MacBook Pro. It is suppose to be free for folks like me that just purchased a new Mac. Well, the email that I received from Apple leads to me to a link for the app but it says it costs $19.99. I obviously can afford the $20, but what gives here? I talked to my son about it and he said that it is definitely free and he provided a link for me. Well, I followed the link and I see that they want proof of purchase and a few other things. I have the proof of purchase but they want it uploaded in that convoluted process. I have no idea how to do this. I am upset at Apple for making this SO difficult. The good news is that my son (and the entire family I might add) will be here visiting starting this Wednesday evening and he will take care of this I'm sure. It is a pain in the butt. This process should be effortless and they make it SO difficult.

    Btw, besides my son and his family, my daughter and her family will also be here starting later in the week. My wife and I are really looking forward to this, but we will have our hands full I'm sure. Among other adventures, we will be going to the internationally famous, Iowa State Fair on August 10. The grandkids in particular will have a blast there. It has been an incredibly hot and dry summer here as I'm sure you have heard by now. It will be especially a shock for my son's family coming from Seattle. It has been rather cool and wet there. I expect that most of the days will be in the 90s while they are here (not quite as hot as it has been) but there will probably be a few days that will be near 100.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Don`t tell me about heat :) If by chance you get your local paper for free, be cautious about adding the new osx....and then be prepared to re-enter passwords etc.....Apparently it will also cost me a bit to be able to use the `cloud`....also the print is sort of on the small size, and it took me a couple of days to remember to use the `command` and + or - to size it more for my eyes..

    Apple is still #1 in my book, but they could do a better job on simplicity :) and after all you just spent quite a bit for the new Mac, and they know you did, so they certainly should just easily down load the osx ---if you want it---

    It will be a jolly time with all the family around, and it is so much easier getting those that know to do the heavy lifting with the computer :) Tony
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    ...now that I broke down and bought a MBP for my daughter who will attend JMU down in Virginia in a few weeks. My wife likes it a lot.... :cry:

    Regards,OW
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Christmas is not that far off. :blush:
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Here is a big reason why the stock has recovered beautifully from the post earnings disappointing report. From all indications now, the iPhone 5 will be launched in mid to late September and not October. This is obviously very significant since huge sales of this new product will greatly increase revenues for the current quarter. Analysts were thinking that this quarter will be quite soft for Apple. Additionally, there is a lot of buzz that the iPad mini and iTV will also be be announced later in September or soon thereafter.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsavitz/2012/07/31/update-analyst-says-he-confirm- s-sept-12-apple-event/?partner=yahootix
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Houdini,

    I bought too much into the kool-aid of 30mil iPhones and 20mil iPads. But regardless the results were still 20% over prior years staggering results and for a company lthe size of Apple that's a hell of an achievement. What a difference to last quarter though. They announce phenomenal earnings and eventually the stock tanks to $525. Now they miss Wall Street estimates and the stock goes as high as $616. Then Amazon misses by a small amount, announces an upcoming loss and Wall st puts them thru the roof into the 230's. I think Bezos has Wall st hypnotized. As for Apple the Q4 profits are going to be mind boggling. Cirrus llogic, Apples sound chip provider, jumped 20% the other day an an announcement of a record high upcoming chip order. Apple must have a phenomenal amount of pre-orders as one of their aims is to avoid a black Friday rush on the stores and violence that develops if there are product shortages.

    Apple cash up another $9.2bln to $117bln. Still another quarter where cash beats earnings.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    edited August 2012
    I've decided there is no rhyme or reason to the stock market. It's gambling and the house (the financial sector) has the deck stacked in its favor.

    First Apple "disappoints" and the stock drops $25 in one day and has rebounded nicely.

    Second is Coach - one of my long term holdings. The announced on Tuesday that sales were up, net profits up, EPS up, gross margin up versus the same period last year. The stock took a hit of of almost 19% because "an increasingly promotional environment led to lower growth than expected in factory stores."

    So they had to have some sales/promotions to move product for one quarter and the street beats the crap out of the stock. Even with the hit, we've had a return of almost 1900% over 12 years.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Rob,

    The problem is that we lost so many retail investors and we have an over-abundance of traders and speculators in the market. They run on any sign of bad news and then they come back. And then there's things like this that make retailer investors move even further away. I'm glad this company's value decreased 32%.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/02/business/unusual-volume-roils-early-trading-in- -some-stocks.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It amazes me how foolish our people in Sacramento are. Didn't their dad ever tell them not to count their chickens before they were hatched?

    According to Bloomberg's John Erlichman, California is now saying its "tax revenue is at risk" because it assumed it would get $1.9 billion from newly enriched Facebook employees.

    But now those Facebook employees are only going to get about half as rich as they would have if the stock were still trading at the IPO price.

    And that means that California--and the Federal government--are likely to collect only about half as much Facebook-related tax revenue as they thought.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Sadly Apple does not help the Middle Class workers that are looking for a job.

    The iPhone, I estimated, is so profitable that it generates more profit than just about any other company on earth, not just product.

    The iPhone generates more profit than GE, for example (all of GE). It generates more profit than Microsoft. It generates more profit than Google and Walmart. It generates almost as much profit as Exxon-Mobil!

    Well, it turns out I was too conservative.

    The iPhone is likely even more profitable than I thought!


    http://www.businessinsider.com/iphone-profit-2012-8
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Yes, you missed that one, but it all turned out OK. Speaking of Cirrus llogic, I bought a nice stake in QCOM a few days ago for that same reason. It has done OK so far.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    I find this article of great interest. It is very informative.

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/800471-samsung-galaxy-is-no-apple-iphone-killer?- source=yahoo
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Although I don`t think Apple can continue to grow as it has , it still has a ways to go.....

    The thing that is missed on most discussions, is the cost to use the product.....If you just pay say six hundred dollars and purchase the smart phone---no matter the brand--it still costs about a hundred dollars a month to use it, and that is just for the minimum 1 gb--I think.......

    Charlie, you know I have been wanting to get a smart phone, but the more I think about it, the more it appears that just a mobile phone is what I need....I don`t see how I can get by without the wi-fi, which is what I primarily use....

    I think it is a nice thing that Verizon made the change to `sharing` ...For all the grandchildren, it must be a staggering bill for my children :) Tony
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Charlie, you know I have been wanting to get a smart phone, but the more I think about it, the more it appears that just a mobile phone is what I need....I don`t see how I can get by without the wi-fi, which is what I primarily use....

    Hi Tony! I'm a bit confused here. When you say that you can't get by without wi-fi and that is what you primarily use, so what is the problem? If you have wi-fi, your smartphone will work nicely (for accessing the internet) in a wi-fi spot. I'm not sure that you MUST sign up with some sort of a data plan if you don't want to.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I tried buying the Galaxy Note with just basic phone service contract and it was a no go. I had to have a minimum data service with any smartphone. With the AT&T Sr plan The minimum was $50 per month.
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