The Stock Market and Investing

cyclone4

This is disappointing news about the adapter for the iPhone 5 charging docs. Plus the price point of $29-39 is ridiculous. It should be $15 at most. Not sure if I'm going to buy it anymore. Bad judgment by Apple IMO and the price looks very greedy.

Len - this is the only thing about yesterday's event that disappointed me as well. It seems like they are gauging (sp?) people on this.

In any case, I am going to preorder tomorrow as well through the AT & T store. I am not yet qualified to upgrade the 4S since I have a 2 year tie-up with them. However, my wife can upgrade her 3GS. Thus, she will then own my 4S and I will be the proud owner of the new 5. Just about all the reviews have been very positive. This thing will sell in astronomical numbers.

As far as the other members of the family's phones syncing with the iPad is concerned, I honestly do not know. There is a LOT I do not know about this technology. Maybe Rob knows the answer. I wasn't even sure that I could purchase and listen to iTunes music on the iPhone. I thought one needed an iPod. I am very lost on all this stuff. I am in the "cloud".

Btw, as I understand it, we will be able to talk to Siri in our new cars and ask Siri whatever in the near future.

cyclone4

Is the big AAPL jump the iPhone 5 or QE3? Every stock in my IRA and Portfolio are up. Some stocks as much as 12%. Crazy market.

Speaking only about today's action, AAPL was up about $8 prior to the Fed announcement. And of course yesterday it closed about $10 higher. So, my short answer is that the majority of the jump has nothing to do with the Fed announcement but everything to do about the introduction of the new iPhone and how it will be distributed throughout the world faster than ever before. There are no supply constraints as some feared.

ljflx

So much for ordering today. The iPhone 5 sold out in 1 hour and all sites are overwhelmed. The stock is pushing close to $700 and may cross it today. Don't get the downgrades in carriers as they pick up more users, fees etc. They may be a good buy today and in days to come.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/14/apple-iphone-sales-idUSL3E8KE3U5201209- - 14?feedType=RSS&feedName=rbssFinancialServicesAndRealEstateNews&rpc=43

cyclone4

Len, all I can say is that this is unbelievable. I tried calling the AT & T store a few minutes ago but they are not answering. They must be swamped. I will drive over there in a few minutes just to see what's going on.

All this is obviously terrific for the Apple stock.

ljflx

Charlie,

Never expected this, thought it would take a few days at least and anyone who questioned the iPhone 5 presentation days ago is totally lost on Apple. A mini iPad will also sell out fast and put a lot of hurt on Amazon, Google and others. I watched what was a lousy football game last night and figured I'd go onto Verizon at a few minutes past midnight to order. But they had not updated the site probably because they likely wait till we cross midnight in the pacific time zone to do so in situations like this. The site will not allow you to proceed after you choose the phone you want to upgrade, even if it's the 4 or 4S. The Apple site is also not working on processing an order. Even if i could order the 4 or 4S on Verizon I wouldn't order one as I planned as Verizon hasn't updated their pricing yet. They must be swamped at all levels. I wonder how stupid that analyst who has a $270 price on this stock feels right now. And good old Gary on CNBC, who's actually a smart guy, must feel real foolish for telling everyone NOT to buy this stock. Like I said the other day, how can you sell here?

Re stock price - $800+ IMO when Q4 earnings are released. Maybe $850+.

ljflx

Charlie,

I was finally able to order the iPhone 5 on Verizon. But the phone will not arrive till the 26th. On Verizon the new pricing for the 4 and 4S does not take place until the 21st. So I have to delay ordering them for my kids to that date. Oddly my son says the 4 is enough for him so I'll end up getting both phones for free other than the $30 upgrade fees. I prefer to order all phones on-line now so that I don't have to be bothered with mailing in rebate forms.

cyclone4

Well, I just got back from the AT & T store. I had to wait a half hour to talk to a specialist. They are taking preorders but they are informing customers that it will take 2-3 weeks to get your iPhone 5. I decided that instead of pre-ordering, I am going to show up at the store at about 7:30 AM next Friday morning, September 21 and purchase the 64 gig model in black. I should not have much trouble getting what I want I believe.

For whatever reason, AAPL lost about $6 of its gains as of this moment. I think it is profit taking from some when AAPL did not reach the $700 level this morning. I cannot disagree with your price target on the Q4 earnings report.

ljflx

My gut feeling is the stock runs toward or across $700 in the last hour of trading.

ljflx

BTW - so much for our expertise. The $30-39 adapters sold out immediately as well.

cyclone4

I just read an article that explains why Apple went with the 8 pin plug instead of the USB that some folks wanted. The reason is that the Micro-USB is not powerful enough to accomplish all that the iPhone 5 needs. Additionally, the Micro USB would not work well at all on future iPads. They obviously have great reasoning for every decision. Here is the link:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/heres-why-apple-went-tiny-203500359.html

ljflx

Charlie,

You may need to re-think your 7:30 am strategy. Here in NYC people have already started lining up for the Friday debut of the iPhone 5 outside the Apple store. So they are sleeping on the sidewalk for nearly a week as this started yesterday. I'll tell you some people are just fanatics.

cyclone4

Len, there is no way I'm going to go to that extreme. If I can't get it Friday, I'll get it eventually.

cyclone4

This is disappointing news about the adapter for the iPhone 5 charging docs. Plus the price point of $29-39 is ridiculous. It should be $15 at most. Not sure if I'm going to buy it anymore. Bad judgment by Apple IMO and the price looks very greedy.

The current port is a 9 year old design and very inefficient for the future. It takes up precious real estate in a package that needs space for other features.

Give it 4 weeks and you'll see knock off port adapters on Amazon for $3.

Rob and Len,

You guys will be interested in this article. There may very well be a solution on the USB yet.

http://www.slashgear.com/lightning-may-bring-usb-host-ability-to-iphone-5-142476- 02/

fintail

Eventually their tidal wave of douchiness is going to wash back on them

cyclone4

Unless there is more to this story than what the article states, then I totally agree that Apple should not interfere with this company.

gagrice

The 1.5% that thought Apple had a legitimate claim have to be part of the Apple Cult. Doesn't Apple have anything better to do than going around alienating people? Just when I think maybe they are worth giving them a try I read something like this and it all comes back, the reasons I detest the company.

ljflx

I agree and disagree with you guys. On the one hand the company looks like a bully. But there is a reason you establish trademarks, copyrights and patents and that is to protect your name. So you never let your guard down about this stuff. I've been in too many meetings as a CFO in the past about this stuff. If they are allowed to this can a tech company be far behind in doing the same thing?

Apple to 701.90 in extended after hours trades. Narjarian on cnbc thinks option trading suggests a 750 price in what he called sessions. But at such a high dollar stock value that is only 6 percent, so quite doable a lot sooner than anyone thinks. BTW - nice upward moves recently by IBM and BBBY after both had dropped off significantly over the summer.

I'd never let anything like this copyright story keep me from buying a product from Apple. As a shareholder I'm glad to see how on top of things their lawyers are as well.

fintail

I'm tellin ya, they are behaving like MS used to, 20 years ago.

There's valid reason to protect valid intellectual property, but fighting a Polish grocery store is simply insane. Eventually, they will reap what they have sown. The cult won't go on forever. I predict there will be huge rifts about how American courts and others rule, too. Hopefully the Polish court and the government itself will tell them where to go. Apple would be better off fighting the cloned knockoff products in China - oh wait those are probably tolerated in whatever deal with the devil the company has established to retain production there.

ljflx

What do you see in American courts? They are so different than MSFT who had monopolistic profits and bullied everyone to defend them. Apple has highly competitive products with multiple players in every segment they operate in and most are very large companies. As for the intangible aspect lets remember that company's in this segment are being acquired purely for their intangibles hence any intangible is going to be on the radar screen and heavily defended.

ljflx

Charlie,

Forgot to tell you that I now ordered an iPhone 5 for my wife. She really likes the Siri feature so I got her the better application in the 5. My son had changed his mind and wanted the 4S so I was going to have to spend $20-25 on a case. So I figured that served as a 25 percent discount to the extra $100 I would spend over the 4S. My son wanted and needed the better camera in the 4S vs the 4. When I bought my phone I opted for the hard and silicone case option on Verizon so I had an extra case for the 5. I also like that $49 rugged case that is offered but can't justify it right now.

I ordered the second iPhone 5 last week and at that time delivery was put off to October 5th.

gagrice

I am curious. Why would people be waiting at the Apple store if the phones can be ordered ahead of time. Will they be able to actually get an iPhone 5 when they go on sale in the stores?

My dislike of Apple products is more of a technical nature. I have built most of my own computers over the years. Apple architecture is not open as is the PC starting with IBM. And I don't like the batteries not being accessible, no Flash player. When you buy an Apple product you are a slave to their whims and wishes.

For the non technical type buyer they are very easy to use and that probably accounts for 95% of the population. If you can justify the added cost and inconvenience of sending it to Apple for a new battery, go for it.

I will look at the new iPad Mini as I would like to have a device that size. It will have to be a full GPS NAV device to satisfy all my wishes.

ljflx

I have no idea why anyone would wait in line 6-7 days ahead of any product becoming available. Today in NYC will be stormy with 40-50 mph winds late and with good chances of severe thunder storms. So I wonder what they will do then. Some people are just crazed with this stuff. I wouldn't do this under any circumstances even if they were giving me a pound of gold.

robr2

I am curious. Why would people be waiting at the Apple store if the phones can be ordered ahead of time. Will they be able to actually get an iPhone 5 when they go on sale in the stores?

Because of the volume of pre-orders was greater than the supply Apple had reserved for pre-orders and anyone pre-ordering now won't get them on Day 1. Backorders are pushing mid October. By standing in line, they have a better chance of getting one on Day 1. Pre-orders numbered over 2 million in 24 hours - twice as many as for the launch of the 4S.

Apple has a brilliant strategy. Getting people to stand in line guarantees that news cameras will be on the scene in a hundred cities around the world ensuring free press for them.

cyclone4

Will they be able to actually get an iPhone 5 when they go on sale in the stores?

As I understand it, the answer is yes, you will likely be able to get an iPhone 5 in the store this Friday as long as the inventory they have on hand lasts. This is what I decided to do rather than pre-order....go to the AT & T store at about 7:15 AM and hopefully get a black iPhone 5 with 64 gigs. If they run out or don't have what I want, then I will just have to wait 2-3 weeks.

imidazol97

> Here in NYC people have already started lining up for the Friday debut of the iPhone 5 outside the Apple store. So they are sleeping on the sidewalk for nearly a week as this started yesterday.

How do they get to their jobs to work to be able to afford the iPhone? Or are they part of the 47%?

gagrice

They are likely on the Free Cell Phone Welfare program. :sick: That is a good question. Knowing how stupid people can be, I would guess they used vacation or sick time. Though I know a guy that has been on unemployment for a year and a half. He plans to trade in his iPhone 4 on the iPhone 5. Oh, and he is just about to lose the home his mother left him when she died. Borrowed against it and cannot make the payments. Priorities that people have baffle me.

ljflx

Still another asset of the iPhone 5.

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/heres-why-apple-could-be-the-new-enterprise-k- ing.html/?ref=YF

gagrice

I can see devices like the iPhone5 and Galaxy SIII replacing all other devices. You have your TV, phone, internet, games, spreadsheet, Word processor etc.

ljflx

I'll take a great TV over any tablet, phone or computer screen. Likewise I much prefer the sound quality of a receiver and surround sound and of a basic radio. And no one can convince me that wireless is better than wired.

cyclone4

Here is an interesting article from Slashgear on the upcoming iPad Mini:

http://www.slashgear.com/ipad-mini-reportedly-enters-production-foxconn-gets-[non-permissible content removed]- istance-17247966/

fintail

In US courts, I see a lot of quick and easy siding with AAPL that hasn't been repeated in other nations

I'd say going after dinky grocery store concerns in developing Europe as kind of being a bully. The MS playbook, ~20 years later. Lucky for the new big boy, people are much more materialistic and into showing off now than then (saying something), so the demand will continue.

fintail

I suspect some kind of duopoly will exist between those two for non-corporate users. And even many businesses are finally jumping away from BB. I know only 2 co-workers who have one anymore.

I have an SIII. Highest performing phone I have ever used, if only the build quality was nicer. Awaiting a look at the note II - should have huge productivity potential.

gagrice

I have played with both the Galaxy SIII & Note and they almost have me convinced I need a Smartphone. Do you have Verizon or AT&T? Is AT&T the best service if you are going to the EU? I don't plan to travel outside the USA, so Verizon would be my choice. It looks like they may get the Note II.

http://www.droid-life.com/2012/09/15/here-is-the-samsung-galaxy-note-2-for-veriz- on-carrier-branded-home-button-included/

gagrice

This is a pretty sophisticated fake gold bar scam.

In jewelry stores on 47th Street and Fifth Avenue in Manhattan, the important trust between merchants has been violated. A 10-ounce gold bar costing nearly $18,000 turned out to be a counterfeit.

The bar was filled with tungsten, which weighs nearly the same as gold but costs just over a dollar an ounce.

Ibrahim Fadl bought the bar from a merchant who has sold him real gold before. But he heard counterfeit gold bars were going around, so he drilled into several of his gold bars worth $100,000 and saw gray tungsten -- not gold.

What makes it so devious is a real gold bar is purchased with the serial numbers and papers, then it is hollowed out, the gold is sold, the tungsten is put in, then the bar is closed up. That is a sophisticated operation.

http://www.myfoxny.com/story/19578206/fake-gold-bars-turn-up-in-manhattan

ljflx

IMO - the proof that Samsung copied was overwhelming and I expected a quick verdict. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the monetary award is trebled.

gagrice

I don't think Apple will see any of that award. We are talking two of the most wealthy companies in the World. Samsung is over twice the size of Apple in sales. And keep bringing out new products. They are also partners in that Samsung supplies 30% of Apples parts. It is all just showmanship. If they can put a chink in the other guys armor they do it. Apple is a bully pure and simple. Look at their handling of Pegatron.

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/02/13/apple-reportedly-pressures-pegatron-into-cea- sing-asus-zenbook-production/

gagrice

The battle is far from over between the Titans.

Samsung also looks to be staying ahead of the curve - by reviving the stylus function, derided by Apple's Steve Jobs, in its latest tablets and by creating the hybrid phone-[non-permissible content removed]-tablet, or phablet, category, with its 5.3-inch Note.

Apple, which has largely stood by its original form and design, is taking note, with speculation that the next iPhone will have a bigger screen and new iPads may be smaller.

In China, set to become the world's biggest smartphone market this year, Samsung has almost twice Apple's market share, and the iPhone slipped to fourth in the market in April-June, overtaken by both Lenovo and ZTE, according to latest data from industry research firm IDC.

Despite, or because of, the publicity from the US case, and more than a dozen pending cases elsewhere around the globe, the Samsung brand has gained recognition - as an equal to Apple rather than merely a supplier.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/enterprise-it/strategy/Apple-wins-1-bill- ion-dollar-in-patent-suit-but-Samsung-set-for-bounce-back/articleshow/15678667.c- ms

robr2

And guess what?? The rumor mill has it that Pegatron is now manufacturing the iPad mini and the the iPhone 5 in addition to Foxconn to keep up with expected demand.

Apple may have bullied Pegatron to stop making the Asus tablet but that happens in business all the time. Suppliers often drop customers in deference to another. But that usually is in conjunction with the asking customer giving the supplier more business.

gagrice

I agree with you on that. What I found interesting is Pegatron was owned by Asus originally. It was their manufacturing company to start with. It will be interesting to see if any of the small pad manufacturers sue Apple over the Mini iPad. Hard to make anything absolutely different and keep the same functionality. Sort of like car makers and the basics of 4 wheels and tires.

cyclone4

The article is from August 25. A lot has happened since then and basically mostly in favor of Apple.

cyclone4

I first became aware of Andy Zaky about 18-24 months ago when Len mentioned his name. This guy has been nothing short of sensational on his predictions on AAPL. Here are his latest forecasts:

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/how-close-is-apple-to-the-magic-1000-mark.htm- l/?ref=YF

ljflx

The jury verdict is already happening as new droid phones in production are being produced to avoid the patents. When a Google exec tells Samsung to stop copying the iPhone that is going to be a hard fact to have a case overturned on appeal. I don't see this going on and on and I don't know if Samsung has any basis to have this appealed. They just said they want to but didn't site a reason they could do so. It also doesn't help hem that Apple won on the Samsung suit against them, which was part of the same lawsuit in a separate case. Plus everyone knows the S Koreans are copying artists.

ljflx

Despite, or because of, the publicity from the US case, and more than a dozen pending cases elsewhere around the globe, the Samsung brand has gained recognition - as an equal to Apple rather than merely a supplier.

Then how come Apple keeps getting the number 1 position in consumer brands year after year. The article is old.

gagrice

You are not saying that Apple sells anywhere near as many smartphones as Samsung are you? I would not argue that Apple makes some very slick electronics. I do think they are behind in Smartphone technology. The iPad is clearly the current pad to beat. I don't think Apple hit a home run with the iPhone 5. I give them a triple. Still not up to the Galaxy SIII. And will not outsell the SIII Worldwide.

robr2

Yes Samsung does sell more phones than Apple. Samsung sold 50 million phones in Q2 vs Apple's 26 million.

But keep in mind that Samsung offers many models vs Apple's two at a time.

ljflx

You are under the assumption that latest tech means best phone. That's not the case at all for me and obviously for the folks that are buying it and making the iPhone 5 an out of the park Grand Slam. Reliabilty, build quality, eco system, ease of use and unison builder of SW and HW are a lot more important to me than a few techno gizmics I don't care about or will ever use. Plus the one droid phone I had was a disaster because of its lack of uniformity SW and HW build. I'm also not looking for a large screen like the galaxy s-3. The iPhone fits so well in your pocket you don't even know it's there and the 5 is supposed to be even better at this. The galaxy supposedly feels like a rock in your pocket.

cyclone4

My son sent me this link from Slashgear today. It is an incredible, very detailed review on the iPhone 5 by Vincent Nguyen. It is long but well worth the reading. Btw, my son owns a Galaxy S3 so he is not biased towards the iPhone by any means. So, when he says this is the best, unbiased review, I believe it. I am now more anxious than ever to get the iPhone 5. I hope AT & T comes through for me this early Friday morning. Enjoy the reading!

http://www.slashgear.com/iphone-5-review-18247708/

fintail

I have T-Mo. Its a workplace thing. Some iffy random signal issues sometimes, but it usually works fine, and the deals are usually good. Also easy international use.

I await the Note 2

fintail

What good is an award that is never paid? IMO it will be appealed and drawn out longer than any of us will be alive. Other courts will also likely not have identical verdicts. More money for lawyers.

ljflx

Here's a follow-up:

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/will-apple-slap-samsung-with-this-3-billion-b- ill.html/?ref=YF

Plus a good story re both companies battling it out:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/22/business/iphone-fever-dont-count-samsung-out.h- tml?ref=business