Here we go again talking about the "next year's" Trooper... Anyway, when I was buying my 2002 Trooper back in July I went to a few dealerships and got a couple of quotes online.
We picked the best quote (like $9000 off or something) and on the way there we decided to stop to actually test drive the vehicle for the first time in some other place (Atlanta Horton Isuzu or something like that) whose Internet guy came pretty close to matching the original quote.
Since he was busy we decided to talk to a "regular" salesperson who took us for a test drive and stuff. They were loaded with Troopers back then and I asked him for the best price that he was willing to offer. The dude looked so serious when he showed me a laughable deal that I don't think even included rebates or anything. I told him that the price was ridiculous and we decided to walk away. He then called the owner/manager who was the biggest salesperson jerk I've ever met. They did not BUDGE a cent on the price (oh yeah, they would include a cruise) and his only justification for the hot demand was the fact that 2002s were in such short supply and 2003s were about to arrive from the ports. I was speechless, walked away, and bought my current Trooper 1 hour later from Pugmire :-)
They are a joke. The showed up to one of our Isuzu Runs @ Uwharrie National Forest. They had a truck with some big tires and bumpers but they were DRINKING on the trail, Littering their Beer Cans on the trail which is bad enough. On top of it Alchol is illegal in National Parks!
I drive a '01 Trooper S with 20k on it. Since the Denver tech & telecom market has fallen on hard times, I had to take a job that's a 67-mile round trip from my house, and I get to drive through the worst traffic Denver has to offer.
In trying to come up with ways to improve my gas mileage - short of installing a sail on the roof or trading it in for a moped - I've been thinking about dropping in a K&N filter and installing a dual exhaust system with larger-diameter pipes and free-flowing mufflers. (A fun side benefit would be adding a lovely 'rumble' to the Trooper.)
I waded through the past 900+ posts here, plus I checked isuzu-suvs.com, but couldn't find any mention of anyone performing exhaust modifications on their Trooper.
So I'll throw this out to the group here. Has anyone done this sort of thing before, or heard of someone doing it? Would reducing the backpressure screw anything up? Is this a complete waste of time and money in anyone's opinion?
As much as I'd like to make these changes, if it turns out they'll actually shorten the life of my engine, no way will I go through with them.
Finally, on an unrelated side note, I'm definitely upgrading the horn, maybe dropping in one of those $15 "Highway Blasters" you get at JC Whitney. The horn on this vehicle sounds like something out of a Honda Civic - doesn't quite match the Trooper's size.
I got the Hella Triple Trumpet Horns from susquehana motorsports. Great horns, have had them 3 years now w/o problems. I wired them in parrallel to the stockers so they work great. Pics at my site http://isuzu-suvs.com I can give you some tips ont he install too.
As for MPG:
Adding a K&N reduced my milege but gave me more kick. Same would hold true for a dual exhaust/larger muffler system. Basically it will let air flow more freely but IMHO will decrease MPG rather than Increase it.
Did you replace the existing stock filter in the air filter box with the K&N filter, or did you replace the whole assembly with one of those filtercharger kits?
So you got less mileage when you made this change. Huh! I've talked to other folks who say their mileage increased when they made this change (along with receiving a small HP boost). Interesting.
But Paisan your mileage will go down no matter what you install... becuase you ALWAYS have your right foot mashed to the floor to take advantage of every extra bit of power gleaned from the install. For those of us that drive more gently, the K&N improves mileage. But not very much.
And your opinion isn't humble, Paisan. :-)
I wonder if more street oriented tires would help a little. I can't imagine it being worth changing, though, unless yours are completely worn out.
I think basically engine displacement and aerodynamics and vehicle mass dictate mileage.
Oh, slowing down will help. At 60 I can get just about 20 on the highway. At 70, it's more like 18. (Once again, you can see how my approach to driving varies from Paisan's. I consider it an option to drive at about 60.)
I have not done anything to my exhaust yet, but when it rusts out I will probably put on a Walker SuperTurbo low restriction muffler. I had one of these on my old Pathfinder and liked it a lot. Don't really know if it will help mileage, though. I would not expect more than 1 mpg improvement in any case. As was mentioned, slowing down is by far the most effective mpg increase method for the brick-on-wheels Trooper.
Wasn't there some talk about a "Powervault" muffler, with some dyno tests from a Vehicross?
Bottom line is, you can buy alot of gas for the cost of an upgraded exhaust (unless you need new exhaust anyway). Of course, with a new exhaust you DO get the benefit of the rumble... ;-)
Maybe we could have Matt at independent4x4 make some kind of wind fairing...not only reducing wind resistance and increasing mileage, but also increasing potential top speeds.
That is a creation by Tone who believes that the VX is a racecar. I'd personally be skeptical of it's performance gains w/o dyno tests. As was mentioned, 5hp and 1mpg is about all an exhaust is gonna get yah. Better right foot control will help the most.
I currently have the same problem. I have been told that one of the front and one of the rear sensors are bad for a total cost of $692. My sensors went bad the day after returning from a 800 mile round trip. I was given the part numbers 8-97-181-578-0 and 8-97-181-579-0. The sensors from the dealer cost $311.93 each.
those problems are troubling (and expensive). Are the 2000+ sensors different or is it something just waiting to happen? I think that it would be covered under warranty, or no?
How did you know the sensors were bad? I know ml16 had a problem and then the "check" light came on, how about #2?
Was this the first time either of you used TOD? Did you buy used?
I have noticed a slightly more delay/jerkiness in operation, but it still works well. I use mine in rain, deep snow and offroad a lot. I only have 30,000 miles so far on my 1999.
Is it possible to put a working dual exhaust setup on our Troopers? I'm just curious, not that I would do it anytime soon... it would look borderline tacky and cool... but the sound would be worth it though.
I didn't notice this before but: When in TOD, it sounds like the vehicle is in a 'lower' gear when I coast to a stop - its sort of a 'whining' noise. This would seem normal in 4WD, but I just never noticed it before a few months ago.
Any thoughts?????
'99 S 48,000 Tulsa
P.S. Just got back from New Zealand and there are a ton of "Bighorns" there!!
Well you do have more friction in TOD so that makes sense. I have to change my TOD fluid cause I think it's way way dirty and I believe that will reduce the noises as well.
While searching through past posts on such topics, I came across one from paisan in which he said that shot stock shocks could cause the ABS to engage more quickly.
Our 98 Trooper has 75k miles. Still running the stock shocks. On several occasions, the ABS has kicked in at a time when I didn't expect it to - i.e. when it didn't seem necessary. My guess is that this is at least partly related to the fact that the OEM shocks are worn out, which seems a safe bet since the shocks have over 75,000 miles on them and most of the miles have been logged on Michigan's horrible roads.
This is another good 'reason' I can give my wife for why we should replace the shocks on our Trooper. Unfortunately, it will need to wait a couple months due to the other big $$ maintenance work we just paid for.
Can paisan or anyone else explain why worn-out shocks would cause the ABS to engage prematurely?
If your shocks are bad your tires won't be pushed against the ground properly and your contact patch will tend to jump over bumps. Jumping over bumps will cause the abs to kick-in.
Time to start watching for sales on shocks. We don't off-road, so my shock choices will be pretty boring to the rest of you folks - probably a Monroe or Gabriel model. I've been searching around for recommendations, but there are more discussions on what is good for off road than for on-road.
To a point lower back pressure is good. I suspect a freer flowing muffler is probably close to that point for the Trooper engine and that larger dual exhausts would be too much and expensive to engineer (e.g. what are you going to do about the one O2 sensor?) defeating the saving money premise of your post.
With a Trooper you are trying to push a big box down the road and that means you use quite a bit of gas. My advice is to keep it maintained well (especially proper tire pressure), consider synthetic lubes and use a light foot. Just my $.02.
Thanks to everyone for the input. After you all mentioned the magic phrase ("cost justification") I did some hard-numbers checking into the price of an exhaust system re-vamp, and it ain't pretty. One could put a hearty down-payment on a motorcycle with the amount you'd spend on custom exhaust.
So I don't think I'll be making any modifications of such magnitude to my vehicle. Good maintenance and slowing down seem to be sensible suggestions, although I'm sure I'll be getting some dirty looks when I do 60 down the 75mph freeways here. Maybe when the current muffler rusts out or needs replacing, I'll throw on something more free-flowing.
Until that time, though, there's plenty of improvements and maintenance tasks to keep me busy, like this sporadic "Check Engine" light that comes on periodically. I'm debating between taking it into the dealer for expensive diagnosis and possible repairs, versus spending $1.50 for a good roll of electrician's tape and taping over the light so I don't see it anymore.
The computer saves the CEL codes. AutoZone and some other stores will retrieve them for you free of charge. You might go that route before throwing money at the dealer. The CEL situation could even be your car's way of telling you what to do to improve your mileage.
mpel - the vehicle "whines" when TOD is engaged because you have a gear and multirow chain in the transfer case turning right below your seat. Those components don't turn when TOD is disengaged.
sbcooke and group: My "CHECK TOD" light came on. I took my truck to the dealer. They said there were not any stored codes so they had to perform a step-by-step trouble shooting process ($128). Although not very convincing they told me that they disconnected the sensors and found both to be bad. I thought the problem may some type of common communication link. I do not have electrical schematics.
I use TOD all of the time on wet and icy roads. The problem light occurred the day AFTER a long road trip. TOD is not currently working.
Again, I drive a '99 with around 75K miles. The truck is not abused but I have been pulling a fiberglass bass boat for the past two seasons.
Don't worry too much about the check engine light. 90% of the time it relates to emission control. I have a '99 Trooper with 86K. At 45K I had to replace the fuel filter. At 55K it was the PCV valve. Now at 85K the light is flashing periodically due to the EGR valve. I am not saying to ignore the CEL light, but keep in mind that cars today are sometimes smarter than us.
On another note:
Hey Paisan,
I smell a blue bow-tie fan on the ascender board. What's your guess?
After a long trip? Did you drive the whole way with it on? On the highway at all? Not that any of these things should cause it to break I am just curious.
I made a round trip from Indianapolis to Novi (near Detroit) MI pulling my boat. It was actually a smooth trip. No stop and go traffic and all interstate miles going 70MPH. The day after returning from the three day weekend I got in the truck to disconnect the boat and there was the "check TOD" light. NO, I did not travel with tod on.
Now, I have accidentally pushed the TOD switch instead of the Cruise control before. Isuzu could have placed that in a different location. Especially since typically a person uses cruise when going over 60MPH which is the speed they advice not activating TOD. I don't think I have done that though.
"Check TOD" is not the same thing as the CEL. Thus, it will not have an emissions source.
Also, if you have a plugging EGR you may want to review other recent posts here and at ITOG about this being an important engine cooling component and how a compromised one may contribute to high oil loss levels.
I need to read the post better. I have a 5-speed with a CEL but no check TOD light. I replaced the EGR today. I don't know if it is just my Trooper, but the CEL light has been a constant battle for me. My company uses Quick Trip for our fuel. The gas prices at QT are super cheap. Do you think this may be a contributing factor?
After this long trip was it cold and damp? I found that my Check TOD started acting up when it was damp then cold the next few days. The sensors or wiring got wet and froze and caused problems. They replaced my sensors and I never had a problem after that. I usually drive with TOD engaged on any day that is less than a perfect sunny day.
My $.02 is that gasoline of the same octane grade is pretty much the same from one refinery to the next. While no company wants problems; I suspect the major operators are a little more careful/spend more money when it comes to maintaining their transport, storage, delivery and dispensing equipment. Consequently the major suppliers are less likely to end up with contaminated gas. So unless your cheap QT gas is somehow being contaminated after it leaves the refinery, I doubt it is casuing you any driveability problems.
You might also want to clean or replace your PCV every 25k miles of so. A dirty one can lead to problems other than just emission CELs. This job is very cheap and easy. The Maintenance thread has covered this topic recently so check there if you don't know how to DIY.
This seems to be a common trouble area on TOD-equipped Troopers. As a loyal Trooper owner, ANY common trouble area is disappointing. Do any of you guys know how pricey the work was when you had it repaired under warranty? Many times the job is priced out on the paperwork even though there's no charge to the customer.
Just want to get an idea of what this might cost me if the TOD sensors on our 98 Trooper ever go bad. I'm hoping we're at reduced risk since our Trooper sees lighter use (no offroading, no underwater driving, no 100mph TOD engagements, etc.) than most.
I agree about it being disappointing. I guess I'll have to budget for it. It seems to be very commonplace... It just doesn't seem like the kind of part that should be failing... I mean, it's got to be some kind of solid-state sensor, right? No moving parts?
Is there any preventative maintenance that can be done? is it water invasion?
I am glad that it seems like just the sensors and not the whole 4wd system. I plan on taking my truck on many more vacations where 4wd is required. At least with 4 low I won't be stranded and also still be able to trek out to where I want to.
is that it's some kind of water/corrosion/grounding issue. I only had problems if it was very cold right after a very wet snowfall/snow-drive. Could have been road salt causing it to make contact and shortout? Not sure, just guessing.
so far, no TOD problems with our 98 Trooper. 75k miles. This is the truck's 4th Michigan winter (was a corporate service vehicle at Isuzu U.S. HQ in southern Cali its first year).
Michigan is one of the states that's too cheap to use sand instead of road salt to combat snowy/icy roads. I do try to get the truck washed fairly often and pay $1-2 extra for the underbody wash, but no more than every week or 2.
Hopefully, TOD sensor problems isn't something that happens to ALL Troopers.
I have a 99 Trooper with 38000miles. It is green with beige interior. I love the truck but the ridgit seats are causing me discomfort. Anyone interested in adopting?
Some comments regarding seats on newer (1992+) Troopers:
1) I've heard plenty of complaints from tall folks that the driver's seat doesn't move back far enough for adequate legroom.
2) Overall, folks seem to like the actual comfort of the seat. Possible exception is those folks with a Trooper S model whose vehicles lack an armrest on the inside arm.
3) What kind of problem are you having? Not enough room, seats too firm, no armrests, etc. I'm 5'9" and my wife's 5'5". We are both "well padded" but not fat. We like the seats in our 98 Trooper w/Performance Package (basically an LS).
I haven't found the seats in my 99 Performance Trooper too rigid. My only complaint was that the passenger seat could not be angled back to provide more leg support. I fixed that problem simply but don't ask how I did it or my description will be deleted from this forum. I guess that powers-that-be consider the modification a safety issue. An observation, anyone notice that car seats in general are more uncomfortable at the end of the day than the beginning?
Guys .... TOD sensors simply don't fail in Australia. So my guess is that your problems are being caused by environmental influences such as road salt.
The Isuzu TOD system is similar to Ford's ControlTrac (which is also a Borg Warner system). Do Explorer's in the US have problems with speed sensors?
Also, are the people experiencing problems with TOD sensors limited to those that live in snow areas where salt is used?
Seats in my 1999 Trooper are comfortable. I'm 6'3" and do not have the seats all the way back - I think there is plenty of legroom. The Trooper is not a Sports Car and seating is more 'chair' like.
Have leather seats. I nixed the "S" model originally because it had no armrests.
I'm dealing on a 98 trooper s with 88,000 miles for $6,995. Average condition but noticed some vibrations from front wheels especially on highway speed. Any suggestions or comments about this trooper would be greatly appreciated.
Comments
We picked the best quote (like $9000 off or something) and on the way there we decided to stop to actually test drive the vehicle for the first time in some other place (Atlanta Horton Isuzu or something like that) whose Internet guy came pretty close to matching the original quote.
Since he was busy we decided to talk to a "regular" salesperson who took us for a test drive and stuff. They were loaded with Troopers back then and I asked him for the best price that he was willing to offer. The dude looked so serious when he showed me a laughable deal that I don't think even included rebates or anything. I told him that the price was ridiculous and we decided to walk away. He then called the owner/manager who was the biggest salesperson jerk I've ever met. They did not BUDGE a cent on the price (oh yeah, they would include a cruise) and his only justification for the hot demand was the fact that 2002s were in such short supply and 2003s were about to arrive from the ports. I was speechless, walked away, and bought my current Trooper 1 hour later from Pugmire :-)
-mike
I drive a '01 Trooper S with 20k on it. Since the Denver tech & telecom market has fallen on hard times, I had to take a job that's a 67-mile round trip from my house, and I get to drive through the worst traffic Denver has to offer.
In trying to come up with ways to improve my gas mileage - short of installing a sail on the roof or trading it in for a moped - I've been thinking about dropping in a K&N filter and installing a dual exhaust system with larger-diameter pipes and free-flowing mufflers. (A fun side benefit would be adding a lovely 'rumble' to the Trooper.)
I waded through the past 900+ posts here, plus I checked isuzu-suvs.com, but couldn't find any mention of anyone performing exhaust modifications on their Trooper.
So I'll throw this out to the group here. Has anyone done this sort of thing before, or heard of someone doing it? Would reducing the backpressure screw anything up? Is this a complete waste of time and money in anyone's opinion?
As much as I'd like to make these changes, if it turns out they'll actually shorten the life of my engine, no way will I go through with them.
Finally, on an unrelated side note, I'm definitely upgrading the horn, maybe dropping in one of those $15 "Highway Blasters" you get at JC Whitney. The horn on this vehicle sounds like something out of a Honda Civic - doesn't quite match the Trooper's size.
Thanks in advance for any input.
EZ
Here are a few tips...
I got the Hella Triple Trumpet Horns from susquehana motorsports. Great horns, have had them 3 years now w/o problems. I wired them in parrallel to the stockers so they work great. Pics at my site http://isuzu-suvs.com I can give you some tips ont he install too.
As for MPG:
Adding a K&N reduced my milege but gave me more kick. Same would hold true for a dual exhaust/larger muffler system. Basically it will let air flow more freely but IMHO will decrease MPG rather than Increase it.
-mike
Did you replace the existing stock filter in the air filter box with the K&N filter, or did you replace the whole assembly with one of those filtercharger kits?
So you got less mileage when you made this change. Huh! I've talked to other folks who say their mileage increased when they made this change (along with receiving a small HP boost). Interesting.
Thanks for the info!
ez
It was a minor drop .5->1mpg and increase in power >4000 RPMs.
-mike
And your opinion isn't humble, Paisan. :-)
I wonder if more street oriented tires would help a little. I can't imagine it being worth changing, though, unless yours are completely worn out.
I think basically engine displacement and aerodynamics and vehicle mass dictate mileage.
Oh, slowing down will help. At 60 I can get just about 20 on the highway. At 70, it's more like 18. (Once again, you can see how my approach to driving varies from Paisan's. I consider it an option to drive at about 60.)
Street oriented tires would definitely help, in addition to a light foot and high tire pressures.
And yes, I mash the pedal all the time
-mike
Wasn't there some talk about a "Powervault" muffler, with some dyno tests from a Vehicross?
Bottom line is, you can buy alot of gas for the cost of an upgraded exhaust (unless you need new exhaust anyway). Of course, with a new exhaust you DO get the benefit of the rumble... ;-)
-mike
99, 22,000 miles, pampered, can't figure this one out.
I had mine replaced shortly after I bought my trooper.
-mike
Was this the first time either of you used TOD? Did you buy used?
I have noticed a slightly more delay/jerkiness in operation, but it still works well. I use mine in rain, deep snow and offroad a lot. I only have 30,000 miles so far on my 1999.
When in TOD, it sounds like the vehicle is in a 'lower' gear when I coast to a stop - its sort of a 'whining' noise. This would seem normal in 4WD, but I just never noticed it before a few months ago.
Any thoughts?????
'99 S 48,000 Tulsa
P.S. Just got back from New Zealand and there are a ton of "Bighorns" there!!
-mike
Our 98 Trooper has 75k miles. Still running the stock shocks. On several occasions, the ABS has kicked in at a time when I didn't expect it to - i.e. when it didn't seem necessary. My guess is that this is at least partly related to the fact that the OEM shocks are worn out, which seems a safe bet since the shocks have over 75,000 miles on them and most of the miles have been logged on Michigan's horrible roads.
This is another good 'reason' I can give my wife for why we should replace the shocks on our Trooper. Unfortunately, it will need to wait a couple months due to the other big $$ maintenance work we just paid for.
Can paisan or anyone else explain why worn-out shocks would cause the ABS to engage prematurely?
-mike
With a Trooper you are trying to push a big box down the road and that means you use quite a bit of gas. My advice is to keep it maintained well (especially proper tire pressure), consider synthetic lubes and use a light foot. Just my $.02.
So I don't think I'll be making any modifications of such magnitude to my vehicle. Good maintenance and slowing down seem to be sensible suggestions, although I'm sure I'll be getting some dirty looks when I do 60 down the 75mph freeways here. Maybe when the current muffler rusts out or needs replacing, I'll throw on something more free-flowing.
Until that time, though, there's plenty of improvements and maintenance tasks to keep me busy, like this sporadic "Check Engine" light that comes on periodically. I'm debating between taking it into the dealer for expensive diagnosis and possible repairs, versus spending $1.50 for a good roll of electrician's tape and taping over the light so I don't see it anymore.
EZ
Tom
My "CHECK TOD" light came on. I took my truck to the dealer. They said there were not any stored codes so they had to perform a step-by-step trouble shooting process ($128). Although not very convincing they told me that they disconnected the sensors and found both to be bad. I thought the problem may some type of common communication link. I do not have electrical schematics.
I use TOD all of the time on wet and icy roads. The problem light occurred the day AFTER a long road trip. TOD is not currently working.
Again, I drive a '99 with around 75K miles. The truck is not abused but I have been pulling a fiberglass bass boat for the past two seasons.
On another note:
Hey Paisan,
I smell a blue bow-tie fan on the ascender board. What's your guess?
Now, I have accidentally pushed the TOD switch instead of the Cruise control before. Isuzu could have placed that in a different location. Especially since typically a person uses cruise when going over 60MPH which is the speed they advice not activating TOD. I don't think I have done that though.
Also, if you have a plugging EGR you may want to review other recent posts here and at ITOG about this being an important engine cooling component and how a compromised one may contribute to high oil loss levels.
http://forums.vmag.com/suvtrooper0199/messages/8162.html
Lee
After this long trip was it cold and damp? I found that my Check TOD started acting up when it was damp then cold the next few days. The sensors or wiring got wet and froze and caused problems. They replaced my sensors and I never had a problem after that. I usually drive with TOD engaged on any day that is less than a perfect sunny day.
-mike
You might also want to clean or replace your PCV every 25k miles of so. A dirty one can lead to problems other than just emission CELs. This job is very cheap and easy. The Maintenance thread has covered this topic recently so check there if you don't know how to DIY.
Just want to get an idea of what this might cost me if the TOD sensors on our 98 Trooper ever go bad. I'm hoping we're at reduced risk since our Trooper sees lighter use (no offroading, no underwater driving, no 100mph TOD engagements, etc.) than most.
Is there any preventative maintenance that can be done? is it water invasion?
-mike
What happens that causes them to need replacing -- Do they wear out, break, become contaminated (by dirt, water) or rust, etc.?
-mike
Michigan is one of the states that's too cheap to use sand instead of road salt to combat snowy/icy roads. I do try to get the truck washed fairly often and pay $1-2 extra for the underbody wash, but no more than every week or 2.
Hopefully, TOD sensor problems isn't something that happens to ALL Troopers.
zuri4me
-mike
1) I've heard plenty of complaints from tall folks that the driver's seat doesn't move back far enough for adequate legroom.
2) Overall, folks seem to like the actual comfort of the seat. Possible exception is those folks with a Trooper S model whose vehicles lack an armrest on the inside arm.
3) What kind of problem are you having? Not enough room, seats too firm, no armrests, etc. I'm 5'9" and my wife's 5'5". We are both "well padded" but not fat. We like the seats in our 98 Trooper w/Performance Package (basically an LS).
The Isuzu TOD system is similar to Ford's ControlTrac (which is also a Borg Warner system). Do Explorer's in the US have problems with speed sensors?
Also, are the people experiencing problems with TOD sensors limited to those that live in snow areas where salt is used?
I'm 6'3" and do not have the seats all the way back - I think there is plenty of legroom. The Trooper is not a Sports Car and seating is more 'chair' like.
Have leather seats.
I nixed the "S" model originally because it had no armrests.