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Isuzu Trooper

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  • bsmart1bsmart1 Member Posts: 377
    sounds all too familiar. In most cases its warped rotors. This can be corrected by either having them 'turned' to take out the warp or having them replaced. It happens when tire stores over torque the wheel after installing new tires etc. She ain't under warranty any more, so new rotors would set you back several hundred dollars. BEWARE, have the vehicle looked at by a reputable independent shop and get their opinion.
  • 96_i30_5sp96_i30_5sp Member Posts: 127
    He didn't say vibration when braking but when driving at highway speed. I do agree that severe rotor warpage could lead to vibrations but this may not be the case. It could be several other things, from unbalanced/uneven tread tires to simple tire pressure differences. Are the shocks OK?
    P.S. I always start from the simple solutions and go from there. :)
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'll bet it's the balancing. The 1998->00 Rodeos were known for very badly balanced wheels. They need to be done on a Hunter 9700 or other highend machine.

    -mike
  • ml16ml16 Member Posts: 9
    My 98 with 22,000 miles started having the infamous "TOD flashing" six weeks after the initial warranty expired. I contacted Isuzu and learned their not part of the drive train. My next plan is to write a letter to my local dealer requesting an exception to policy for the short time since the warranty expired. The sensors are approximately $298 each with an additional hour for labor.

    Paisan posted earlier keeping the TOD fluid clean, feel free to laugh but is that the transmission fluid??
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It is ATF fluid, but it isn't the ATF fluid that is in the AT. The TOD is a separate unit, and it should be changed out and kept clean, although it's not needed according to the manual very often.

    I'm not sure why the sensors aren't part of the drivetrain, I think Isuzu gave you a line of BS on that one.

    -mike
  • tkevinblanctkevinblanc Member Posts: 356
    So, does anyone think there is preventative maintenance that can be done on TOD sensors? Anyone know where they are or what they look like?
  • ml16ml16 Member Posts: 9
    Paisan,

    The book states if the TOD fluid is low it may cause the light to come on. (I found this under "automatic transmission").

    Where and how do you check the TOD fluid?

    Per my entry last night I meant to say I have a "99" not a 98.

    Thanks, or should I say "Mille Gracias!"
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Checking the TOD fluid, I believe you need to get under the truck and check the top fill-bolt of the TOD unit. I'll try to look it up tonight on my CD that has the service manual on it.

    -mike
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    paisan, is that the Helm manual on CD, or some other manual? If Helm, is it basically the same info and layout as the paper version that's available?
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    Sounds like an okay price, but at that mileage some fairly significant maintenance stuff is due or overdue. How good the price is, really depends on whether things such as timing belt, water pump, related stuff (tensioner, idler pulley, thermostat, radiator hoses), spark plugs, brakes, tires, etc. have been replaced or not.

    Personally, I would be reluctant to buy a vehicle with a problem like what you described. It could be something very minor, but I would rather agree on a price for the truck with a provision that they resolve the problem first.

    What kind of maintenance documentation is available? If the differential, transfer case, TOD, brake, power steering, coolant, etc. fluids have not been changed at least once or twice on this truck, that's not a good thing.

    Proper maintenance is worth paying for when buying a used vehicle, especially an SUV which has more complex mechanicals than many cars.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    Your theory about it being weather- or environment-related seems valid. It's probably not a hard-and-fast rule, but I bet the failure rate is much higher in snowy or salty areas. So far, I seem to be bucking the trend, as our 98 Trooper has shown no TOD problems despite living in Michigan winters and enduring lots of road salt.
  • pugger1pugger1 Member Posts: 42
    I have an 02 limited Trooper with the steel wheel for a spare, I would like to pick-up a Chrome wheel that matches the others so I could put the spare into the tire rotation. Ideas?, other than the dealer.
  • sdc2sdc2 Member Posts: 780
    If it is a connection/corrosion issue, couldn't the connection be cleaned/fixed instead of replacing the $300 sensor?
  • pugger1pugger1 Member Posts: 42
    I have an 02 limited Trooper with the steel wheel for a spare, I would like to pick-up a Chrome wheel that matches the others so I could put the spare into the tire rotation. Ideas?, other than the dealer.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    They seem to have this sort of stuff from time to time. Also, check St. Charles Isuzu 800.727.8066 for a decent price from a dealer. They sell at 15% off list on all of their Isuzu parts.
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    I guess the new web site was rolled out? Hosts, the autologin feature takes you to a window that closes and causes edmunds to disappear and then you have to re-open IE. The look I am not crazy about, but that is subjective, you need to fix the operational issue though.
  • tkevinblanctkevinblanc Member Posts: 356
    I'm autologged in and did not have the problem you are describing. It worked flawlessly for me... but I came in by typing www.edmunds.com in the Address line of IE 5.5, then selecting "Car Discussions" link in the banner.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    I did the same as tkevinblanc and had no problems with the site this morning.
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    If you are already logged in, yes. But if you delete your cookies, and then have to sign in again...the "agree to autologin" feature says to click the "close window" button...and then it does just that...and you have to restart IE.
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    Nevermind...this happened at to me home while using the concept version...it seems that the production version has this fixed.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Apologies, Sbcooke. Some more servers were rolled in overnight, so you might have gotten bit by that too. The "what I've been saying" part of the profile is down at the moment and I think that's probably related. Lots to juggle in the "back room."

    Thanks for your patience everyone.

    Steve, Host
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    I think it looks great! But it appears markup isn't working.

    tidester, host
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    you mean HTML markup?
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    you mean HTML markup?

    Yes - I can't change the color of text but bold and italics work fine.

    tidester, host
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Links still work :-)

    Town Hall New Look!

    Steve, Host
  • satysaty Member Posts: 23
    hey bluedevils

    thanks for your input on my decision on 98 S for $ 6995. the dealer will do alignment on it so I can test drive again to see if the problem still exist. In the meantime, can you think of any reason why the front wheels vibrate especially on highway speed?
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    Balancing is probably the #1 reason. Could also be bearings need repack? I had motion in the 12-6 positions on one of my front wheels when jacked up off the ground, so as part of my 30K service, I had the bearings repacked and the tires balanced and the vibration is gone. I have not had a chance to check whether the 12-6 movement is still there...however the service guy said that should/did fix the problem.

    ...they were also supposed to check my brakes, but that is another story.
  • edmundgregedmundgreg Member Posts: 5
    Well, I broke down and ordered the front and rear replacement speed sensors. I was quoted around $280 each (down from $311) this time.

    Although weather may have played a part in the early retirement of my speed sensors they did not quit until after my 8 hour summer trip. I hate to say it but...I take care of my truck with the exception of pulling a boat several times a summer.

    What about heat build up from breaking? Possibly the extra friction created while stopping with a load (boat) builds up extra heat causing the sensor to overheat.

    I am going to get my bad sensors from the shop for my own investigation.
  • breakorbreakor Member Posts: 398
    Since the speed sensors are in the TOD unit I fail to see how braking heat could be a factor. However, the extra heat generated while towing a load, especially in the summer, could be the cause of their demise. This theory would also explain why they both went at once as they both heated up at once.

    Be sure to let us know what your post-mortem turns up (e.g. bad connections? burnt circuit board?, or ?). Also, ask your shop if the ATF level in the TOD is low. A low level would add to the heat generated by the TOD. It would also help validate the heat theory/give all of us some incentive for checking our TOD fluid level.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Ever single "check TOD" example i've seen across all the boards I monitor have to do with Wet/snow combined with cold weather.

    -mike
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    Did you try calling Isuzu yourself about the warranty coverage? I am still surprised they arent' covered as part of the powertrain warranty.
  • breakorbreakor Member Posts: 398
    I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the heat theory. Your driving speed and towing history certainly could lead to overheated TOD fluid even in the dead of winter.

    Almost all the TOD problems I remember were SOTF related. The few speed sensors I have read about, other than yours, ALL happened in hot weather.
  • satysaty Member Posts: 23
    Has anyone put a set of tires that are bigger than p245/70/16? Will they fit the factory rim? How the ride and gas milage?

    Thanks
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    Yes, many people have done this. Search this topic, or the Isuzu aftermarket accessories topic, for "tires" or "big tires" and you should get several posts with helpful information.

    You can safely increase the tire size a decent amount without any rubbing issues.

    Note: the search feature wasn't working about 30 minutes ago when I tried it.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I run 275-70-16s. A lot of people run 265-75s. I'm gonna go to 285-75s next time I think.

    -mike
  • serranoserrano Member Posts: 107
    If you don't have the TOD engaged, the fluid should not heat up--summer or winter. If the clutch is not engaged, there will be no clutch slippage and thus no heat. The driveshaft simply passes through the unit on its way to the rear.

    I agree that if you run with low fluid and a functioning TOD, it will get hotter than if the fluid is at a normal level.

    Tom
  • breakorbreakor Member Posts: 398
    I don't know about slipping clutches in a TOD unit. However I do know there are spinning parts in there, including numerous sprockets. Those parts spinning in the ATF is bound to create friction heat at all times. My properly filled TOD unquestionably heats up in 2wd service. In fact it is still noticeably warm to the touch now, 2 hours after being driven. The unit also has heat dissipation fins on it. This leads me to believe that some engineer along the way thought heat buildup is an issue.
  • sbcookesbcooke Member Posts: 2,297
    I believe the front axle drive is spinning all the time, it is just the hubs/clutch that are not engaged? So I would think there would be plenty of heat?

    However, I have noticed that if I engage TOD after driving for a while, there is a noticeable clunk, which was attributed to heat differences between the rear driveline and front...hmmm I guess I don't know.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    IIRC, in 2wd mode, the TOD unit still heats up due to friction. The only difference is that there isn't any torque going to the front driveshaft, however, all the parts still spin from the hubs to the front diffy, right back to the T-case.

    -mike
  • cracoviancracovian Member Posts: 337
    You cannot blame the good ole' Isuzu engineers for not thinking that this vehicle and its TOD functionality would be used in such conditions :) The 5-mile rides to the opera - yes, but snow, rain and low temps? Who would have thought of that!

    It'd be kinda pathetic (and costly for some) if it became a widespread issue...

    -----

    "Every single "check TOD" example i've seen across all the boards I monitor have to do with Wet/snow combined with cold weather."
    -mike
  • bawbcatbawbcat Member Posts: 118
    On the 98+ troopers with TOD (not sure about SOTF), the front driveline is permanently engaged to the front wheels and spins at all times. It is just not connected in the TOD/xfer case, so no drive force is being applied, but everything still spins. If anyone is interested in allowing the front driveline to NOT spin while in 2WD mode, it is possible to install a set of manual locking hubs. This allows the front wheels to be disconnected from the driveline, and thus the front driveline does not spin while in 2WD mode. I performed this operation on my 98 since it spends most if its time in 2WD. I haven't noticed any big difference in MPG or drivability, but at least I know it's saving some wear and tear on the front end. If anyone is interested, the Superwinch 400533 hubs fit the 98+ Troops and are an easy install. They can be bought at summitracing.com for about $86, search for part SPW-400533.
  • nswardnsward Member Posts: 3
    Hi guys, I'm new to this forum. Bought a new 99 3 years ago, and love it. Only have one regret..... that I didn't spend a little more for a Perf or Limited model. It's been up and down many miles of inimproved beach access (in the deep stuff beyond any roads), and up to almost 14,000 feet in the Rockies. And it's never been back to the dealer. I love my Trooper and plan to keep it for my 5-year old's first vehicle.

    Question, I've put Amsoil synthetics front to back, but think I may have missed something. Is the TOD unit the same as the transfer case? You can laugh all you want, doesn't bother me. :) I'm not very mechanical, that's why I want to do the best preventative maintenence I can, with the best fluids available. I use synthetic engine oil, ATF, ATF transfer case fluid, and front and rear differential fluid. Will do wheel bearings also. Anything else? What about that TOD system/unit? Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    That topic has been debated here before. I don't remember if a consensus was reached the last time it came up. Last time, I think I was the one who raised that same question.

    Unfortunately, the owners manual (at least for '98 Troopers, and probably '99s as well) is very confusing in this regard, probably because it describes both TOD and shift-on-the-fly Troopers and isn't clear on the differences.

    You might try a search on this topic or the Isuzu Maintenance & Repair to see what you find.
  • breakorbreakor Member Posts: 398
    The TOD unit is the transfer case on TOD equipped units. It takes ATF. The non-TOD equipped 4wd vehicles have a traditional transfer case. Those take oil.

    All newer 4wd Trooper also have a SOTF unit. That is the thing on the front driveline on the drivers side.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    Thanks for the reminder about this SOTF unit. My 1998 Trooper owners manual says the capacity of the shift on the fly system (page 9-8) is 0.13 US quarts and on page 8-24 it specifies GL-5 gear oil. I do not think I changed this fluid back around 50k miles when I did the other fluids (TOD, front & rear differentials), because I didn't realize there was a SOTF unit that's separate from the TOD unit.
  • serranoserrano Member Posts: 107
    I'm respectfully disagree with some of you folks, but when TOD is disengaged, all of the parts do NOT continue to spin. If that were true, you certainly wouldn't need the SOTF hardware or front hubs. Some of you have commented how there is a "whine" when TOD is engaged; others have noted a "clunk" when enegaging TOD. The reason for the clunk is that when you engage TOD, the front driveline must be engaged and brought up to speed to match the rear driveline speed. That's why the manual recommends that you engage TOD below 60 mph, and that you are not turning. If the driveline speeds are not matched, you get a clunk as the front driveline meshes. The whine is caused by the multirow chain in the TOD case that spins the front driveshaft.

    That's also why your mileage improves when TOD is not on; there is no excess energy being expended to turn the front driveshaft.

    I am unclear whether the front halfshafts are permanently connected to the front wheels. If they are, adding manual hubs to the system would disengage them. However, I fail to see the reason for having hubs in there at all if they never disengage. My guess is that the front halfshafts do not spin unless TOD is engaged.

    Tom
  • serranoserrano Member Posts: 107
    Regarding the front halfshafts, apparently they are connected to the front hubs permanently, so they spin all the time. In my previous post, I was unsure.

    Tom
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The TOD unit is the transfer case on TOD equipped units. It takes ATF. The non-TOD equipped 4wd vehicles have a traditional transfer case. Those take oil.

    All newer 4wd Trooper also have a SOTF unit. That is the thing on the front driveline on the drivers side.

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Welcome to the crew. Be sure to check out http://isuzu-suvs.com I have some useful info there.

    -mike
  • knockoffknockoff Member Posts: 72
    I came on this sight because I still have a tinge of excitement when I see a Trooper on the road. I had a 1998 Acura SLX (basically a Trooper LS). I leased it because of the "roll over" discussion at the time I purchased. When the lease was up, I was upside down in it (something I feared the reason I leased). I asked the dealer I turned it into if I could purchase it for "market price". I was told they didn't do that. Side note: I think some companies are thinking twice about that. Anyway I let it go ... and my point is I miss it. It was a great vehicle for this Utah area with snow, mountains & such.
    I didn't consider another because of the GM "take-over". No offense, but I am not a fan of GM or anything they touch. But I do miss that vehicle.
    Happy motoring! (or is that trucking?)
    P.S. I have read on other sites that many have gotten a slight increase in fuel mileage by using synthetic oil.
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