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Snow/Ice winter tires

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Comments

  • robert_carobert_ca Member Posts: 34
    I am in the market for an all-season tire for my Toyota Highlander and one of the tires I am considering is the Nokian WR.


    The description of the Nokian WR is as follows:

    "Only "4-Season" S.U.V. tire to earn the Severe Service Emblem (snowflake-on-mountain).

    All-weather silica compound provides excellent grip on wet surfaces while maintaining winter properties. The WR's arrowhead unidirectional tread pattern and unique tread positioning effectively expel water, snow and slush. WR features long service life and low driving noise on dry pavement with excellent off-road capabilities. Excellent handling and control in wet weather, while maintaining Nokian's "uncompromised" lateral grip on snow,

    ice and slush."

    http://www.nokiantires.com/indexen.html


    From the little info that I have been able to find on the web, the consensus seems to be that it is a winter tire. I'm confused, is it an all-season or winter tire? Anyone familiar with this tire?


    Thanks

  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    I'm using the Nokian NRW's. I was told that the WR's were for larger vehicles, whereas the NRW's were for passenger cars like my Protege.

    They are an "all-weather" tire. I'm in Calgary and we've already had some -18 C overnight temps. The NRW's have been great on packed snow and light ice.

    Also, in my opinion, they handle much better than my stock Potenza's ever did.
  • odmanodman Member Posts: 309
    Has anyone run Aquatred IIIs in the snow? I know this is the snow-tire board, but I wanted to see if anyone could tell me if these are good/bad in the snow. Tire rack survey says they are good, but real world experience is important too.

    I live in the Toronto area and don't need heavy duty snow tires, but the Michelins on my '98 Odyssey are terrible on any kind of snow/ice.

    I'm also considering Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice winter tires.
  • robert_carobert_ca Member Posts: 34
    Thank-you for the info. For some reason Nokian uses the term “All-Weather” while all other companies use the term “All-Season”, I gather it means the same. Have you driven them in the summer, if you have, do they offer a fairly quiet comfortable ride seeing as they are both pretty well the same type of tire.

    -18 C is pretty cold for this time of the year. We have also been getting below average fall temperatures in the east, strange weather.

    Rob
    Ottawa
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    I had them on when it was still relatively nice. The ride was actually more quiet AND provided better handling than the stock Potenza's. However, those are the only tires I've ever had on my Pro, so I don't really have any other reference points.

    I think they use the term "all-weather" to differentiate them from regular all-seasons. The all-weathers meet the requirements for "severe winter weather" (and thus have the mountain snowflake), whereas regular all-seasons don't meet the requirements.

    On a side note, Lake Louise (ski hill) is opening THIS weekend...the earliest they've ever opened. Pretty glad I put on the NRW's when I did! we had a big dump of snow which in turn led to a lot of ice they day after I put them on...and that was mid-September!
  • widriver2widriver2 Member Posts: 36
    Check the Nov 01 issue of Consumer Reports. I think they tested the tire and the snow traction was not very good.
  • brimulbrimul Member Posts: 2
    Hi, I have a BMW330i and need snow tires for the rare days in NY and CT that it snows. Given the mix of clear cold winter days as well as rain and the occasional snow and ice, which tire is better on an overall basis - for good weather performance and bad weather control - Nokian WR, Dunlop MR2 Sport or Pirellis. Only the Nokian tires have a tread wear rating and claim they can be driven all year, but are carried by only a limited number of stores and as such cost much more. Any help and experience would be appreciated.
  • kominskykominsky Member Posts: 850
    My personal take on this is that I am unwilling to compromise the 9 month performance of my car for 3 months of winter performance. I opted for a dedicated winter tire/wheel package. Based on a lot of research, I ended up getting the Dunlop Winter Sports. My choice was largely based on dry weather handling since we don't usually get a lot of snow in the area and if we do get dumped on, working from home is an option for me. Good luck!
  • hpulley4hpulley4 Member Posts: 591
    Just got some 2 weeks ago for my MINI Cooper. They are the M3 DSST (runflat) model in 195/55R16H size. Their dry handling is very good, not quite as good as the performance summer tires they are temporarily replacing (Goodyear Eagle EMTs) but still quite good, just a bit of tread squirm from the deep winter treads which has gotten better as they've worn a little. They are noticably better in wet than my summer tires and in the small amounts of snow and ice I've been through so far they have done well. I'll report again after the first big snowfall.
  • samsvr6samsvr6 Member Posts: 59
    The WRs are slowly phasing in to replace the NRWs. Go to www.etires.com. They just stocked a wide range of sizes. I just bought a set of WRs 205/55-16 from them and should get them next week. I intend to put these all year round.

    Nokian WR uses "all-weather" to differentiate itself from the other "all season". The WR is the only tire that meets the RMA's Severe Service Requirement and still can be used all year round. The Severe Service Requirement is a much more stringent requirement than the M+S for snow.
  • hpulley4hpulley4 Member Posts: 591
    Did I read that right somewhere that you must pass tests to get the severe service mountain plus snowflake symbol but for M+S designation they just calculate a sufficiently 'empty' tread footprint?

    Anyone know why the Continental ContiWinterContract tires lack the symbol? Did they fail the test or have they not yet been tested? They have other snow like symbols on them but not the offical one; either that or I couldn't find it but I looked hard and there isn't that much surface area...
  • samsvr6samsvr6 Member Posts: 59
    To earn the severe service emblem, a tire has to pass a snow test.

    To earn an M+S designation, no actual test is required. All it takes is for the tire to show 20% of open tread (simplified explanation).

    The Continental ContiWinterContract tire probably hasn't been tested yet.
  • hengheng Member Posts: 411
    Anyone know if they are available online?

    I haven't seen them offered by the big name online tire outfits.

    Locally, the Nokian WRs are $150 ea in 205/55-16 (friend just picked up a set).
  • brimulbrimul Member Posts: 2
    Heng,
    Check out etires.com for Nokian tires. Their prices were lower than my local store, but not by much. Note I went with the Dunlop Winter Sport M2s from Tirerack.com for better overall performance based on Consumer Reports, other driver recommendations and price. Good luck
  • brick22brick22 Member Posts: 71
    I've been researching and searching for Nokian WRs for a few weeks now. So far, I've only located the 16" size through Broadway Tire clinic in Albany, NY--www.broadwayautoclinic.com-- A few people on audiworld.com have bought from them. The general price for 16" seems to be 150. They seem very difficult to get in the West. If anyone has found any in California, Oregon, or Washington, I'd like to know.
  • brick22brick22 Member Posts: 71
    Have you received your WRs from etires? I'm curious how their service was and how you like the WRs. They told me 16" WRs were unavailable. Did you say you ordered 15" or 16"? Look forward to a review of the tires shortly!
  • apyrcapyrc Member Posts: 2
    In the Northwest- the Tire Factory carries Nokian WRs. I am looking at purchasing these for my vehicles and they are 16s". Don't know where you are located? I am in Spokane, WA. and the local store number here is 1.800.359.1510. I'm sure they could direct you to someone in your area. Hope this helps- Andrew
  • xcskierxcskier Member Posts: 34
    I used these last winter on a Subaru WRX wagon, and was very pleased with their performance.

    The OE Bridgestone RE92 tire on this car is V-rated. The NRW's were H rated, which is the highest I could find.

    The other Nokian snow tires (Hakka Q and Hakka 1)have lower speed ratings.

    Even though it's supposed to be all-weather, I switch tires seasonally. My experience is that the NRWs are a little softer cornering, but have much superior grip on snow/slush/ice. I did use the Bridgestones for a few weeks in January before the NRWs were delivered, and I was disappointed with how easy it was to break the traction loose. Once they were installed, the Nokians made a huge improvement.

    Combined with AWD, I enjoyed very good performance and confidence during winter mountain driving conditions in northern Utah.

    Most WRX posters elsewhere on this site bemoan the Bridgestones. I'm waiting for them to wear and replace with something with better performance for summer driving.
  • hpulley4hpulley4 Member Posts: 591
    Just another note about the Green Diamond. My car (MINI Cooper)'s owner's manual specifically states not to use retread tires. Now, whether this is a comment to be taken with a grain of salt or whether it really causes problems (with the ABS-sensor based tire pressure monitors perhaps?) I don't know but I thought it interesting that they specifically mentioned that I should not use them.
  • pluto5pluto5 Member Posts: 618
    The CR article must have given Kumho a boost since Tirerack raised the price on the 15" by 20%.
  • brick22brick22 Member Posts: 71
    Thanks for the number. But have you asked if they have 16" WRs in stock? I've called at least five different Tire Factory shops and they either say an order will take over a month or they try to tell me Nokian WR isn't made in 215/55/16 or they say WRs are unavailable at all. I'll call the Spokane store Monday.
  • samsvr6samsvr6 Member Posts: 59
    Well, I finally received the tires from etires.com. The size is 205/55/16. The price is $138 each plus shipping. Had them mounted at a Discount Tire store 2 days ago for my wife's Pontiac Vibe. I traded in the OEM's Goodyear RSA (all season high performance) for free mounting and balancing plus lifetime rotation. Here is a brief review on different aspects. Most of the time I am comparing to the OEM Goodyear RSA.

    Noise:
    This is a pleasant surprise. It is actually slightly quieter than the RSA! I was expecting noise to be slightly worse because of the large independent tread block design and the sipes. Definitely 2 thumbs up in this area!!

    Ride comfort:
    I can feel that the rubber compound and the sidewall is softer than the RSA. As such the WR is able to absorb road irregularities, potholes, and bumps better than the RSA.

    Dry handling:
    Because of the softer rubber and sidewall, steering response is slower. The RSA was more responsive to steering input than the WR. I have not push the WR hard yet in curves or corners but I think the RSA will have a slight edge. However, since my wife doesn't drive hard at all, she doesn't care about handling.

    Fuel economy:
    Still a little early to tell. I had 150 miles on the WR already and so far it is on par with the RSA.

    Treadwear:
    Nokian has a 50,000 miles warranty for the WR. Also, I looked at the side wall and it has a treadwear rating of 420! Amazing! The RSA rated at 260. The Continental CH95(an all season touring tire) on my previous Passat is rated at 360. I had 32,000 miles on the CH95 before I sold the Passat and they still had 1/2 of the tread left. So, I am sure the WR will outlast 50,000 miles and more.

    Snow handling:
    Don't know yet and it hasn't snow. But I have full confidence in Nokian because they got good reputation. Plus, the WR met the new severe service requirement not just the crappy M+S.
    Let it snow, let it snow!!

    Conclusion:
    I like the WR very very much and I intend to keep them on all year round based on the above reasons. I had a colleague rode with me and he couldn't believe that I had snow tires on!!!
  • samsvr6samsvr6 Member Posts: 59
    Check out etires.com. They listed the WR 215/55/16 in stock. Here is the list of sizes that etires.com carry for the WR:

    Part # Size/Description Sidewall $/Tire Availability
    T443426 175/65R14 82T Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443460 185/55R14 80H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443428 185/65R14 86T Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443430 185/65R14 86H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443598 195/70R14 91T Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443462 185/55R15 86H XL Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443432 185/65R15 88T Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443434 185/65R15 88H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443464 195/55R15 85H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443448 195/60R15 88H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443436 195/65R15 91T Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443438 195/65R15 95T XL Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443440 195/65R15 91H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443450 205/60R15 91H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443442 205/65R15 100T XL Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443444 205/65R15 94H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443424 205/70R15 96H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443360 215/70R15 98H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443454 225/60R15 96H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443400 235/75R15 105T Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443492 205/50R16 87H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443466 205/55R16 91H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443468 205/55R16 94V Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443452 205/60R16 92H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443470 215/55R16 97H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443416 215/65R16 98H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443478 225/50R16 96V XL Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443472 225/55R16 95H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443456 225/60R16 98H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443404 225/70R16 103T Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Limited
    T443458 235/60R16 100H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443406 235/70R16 105T Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Limited
    T443402 235/75R16 108T Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443408 245/70R16 108T Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Limited
    T443418 255/65R16 109H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443410 255/70R16 111T Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Limited
    T443412 265/70R16 114T Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Limited
    T443480 225/45R17 91H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Limited
    T443482 225/45R17 94V XL Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Limited
    T443476 225/55R17 101V XL Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Limited
    T443484 235/45R17 94H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Limited
    T443486 235/45R17 97V XL Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Limited
    T443446 235/65R17 104H Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Limited
    T443488 255/40R17 98V XL Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Limited
    T443422 255/55R17 104T Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Good
    T443414 265/70R17 113T Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Limited
    T443420 275/60R17XL 111T Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Limited
    T443490 225/40R18 92V XL Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Limited
    T443596 235/50R18 101W XL Nokian WR Black Sidewall Call Limited
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    From what I gathered off their web site, these are not like the "retread" tires of yesteryear. These are total caps, with just the carcass of the tire as a husk or shell, or whatever. Frankly, I don't drive fast in the winter, so it isn't really an issue. I can't wait to try these Blizzak beating built-in studded tires.
  • brick22brick22 Member Posts: 71
    I know. And you know what? When I called, they told me they only had NRWs in 215/55/16. I didn't ask about 205s.
  • samsvr6samsvr6 Member Posts: 59
    First time I called, they told me the same thing. 205/55/16 is only available in NRW. He went on to say that Nokian has decided not to bring in the 205. He said I should get the NRW first and wait, maybe Nokian will bring in the WR later. I said no thanks. I then went to the website and ordered it anyway because it let me. The order was processed and now I got my tires.

    What I think is happening is that they are trying to clear their NRW inventory. I suggest that you order through their website. Don't bother calling them. They don't charge you till they ship the tires. IF there are disputes down the road, you can always call your credit card to cancle payment. You will receive a confirmation e-mail. You will also get another e-mail when they ship. If they don't ship within 2 days, call them. It took me 2 calls and 5 days before they shipped.
  • apyrcapyrc Member Posts: 2
    brick22- In Spokane I talked with Scott (he handles the Nokian accounts) Yesterday I ordered 255 70R16s for my QX4, and 225 50R16s for my Lexus. He didn't have them in stock, he normally gets shippments from Portland within a day or two. However, he said that he had to order mine from Tenn. But- he did say that it should only take five business days tops. In the past when he ordered from that location it would only take 3-5 days... FYI

    -Andrew
  • hpulley4hpulley4 Member Posts: 591
    I got my first real blast of winter this weekend with iced up roads, snow, sloppy slush and then an unintentional drive though a road under construction. The Dunlop SP WinterSport M3s performed well in every situation.

    Ice Friday night was visible on the road but I couldn't feel the effect of it. Snow early this morning over the ice was more challenging but the tires still did great, with the traction control telling me when I've given too much gas. In slush, great again.

    The Santa Claus Parade today meant tough parking and driving after it was over so I walked to my car to pick up my wife and son later and I went down a street where no one else was going as it looked tough to fight against the whole town exiting after the parade. All over, roads were 'closed' for the parade and for parking so I didn't think twice when I went down what turned out to be a truly closed road. This one turned out to be under construction, no asphalt at all, just mud under snow. Even with the low ground clearance of the MINI (less than 5") it came through with just a bit of mud on the tips of the front black plastic trim and some splashed up from the tires. These are true mud + snow + severe weather tires.
  • artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    Well, winter came a bit early to southern Ontario this year.......we got about 8" of snow this weekend....great test for the Nokian NRW's I got for the Aerio. Spent part of Saturday and a good part of Sunday driving around through various conditions of unplowed snow, ice, slush, you-name-it. Other than a bit of slippage on startup (especially on a grade.....need to feather the gas or start in 2nd gear....no traction control on the Aerio) and a mild slide on a sharp corner I took too fast, the tires performed well. I even stopped on a fairly steep hill out in the country and was able to start up again no problem. I was particularly impressed with the braking....very short, controlable stops.....felt the ABS kicking in a few times. Felt much safer than our old 4WD Sidekick on Desert Duellers. Looking forward to the next snowstorm already! Glad to hear your Dunlops performed well for you too, hpulley4!
  • hpulley4hpulley4 Member Posts: 591
    We look forward to snow storms! With all-seasons I used to dread driving on snow and ice covered roads. Now I just dread the other drivers on the same road at those times, what a mess this past weekend!
  • widriver2widriver2 Member Posts: 36
    Hi,

    I'm scheduled to install my Dunlop SP Wintersport M2s tomorrow. How many of you have your snow tires on already? I'm in Wisconsin and from the recent posts it seems many of our neighbors to the north have installed them. What about others in the states?
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Just put them on my Ody yesterday here in Boston as we had frozen rain/snow over the weekend. Arctic Alpins on steel rims.
  • artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    Yeah, I've always enjoyed driving in the snow but it makes such a difference when you have proper tires......you feel very secure and in control.
    But you're right about "watch out for the other guy", hpulley4.......saw 2 or 3 cars in the ditch in my travels this weekend. TV news clips said there were 3-400 fender benders during the height of the storm.....the clips they aired showed the majority of vehicles lined up on tow trucks at the collision centres were SUV's!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Generally speaking, all-weather tires lose their elasticity at -15 C, whereas the limit for snow tires is -40 C. Winter tires have a more aggressive tread design to provide better grip and evacuate slush and snow. They also provide more stable braking and tracking."

    "There's no beating winter tires"


    Steve, Host

  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538

    Whatever the Weather

    Whatever the Season

    Grip like an Eagle!


    (Just a new link to these, for those who missed it.)

    Does anyone here run these? I am VERY interested in getting these, because I could avoid having to use chains, especially with the oversized 31X10.5 tires I use.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    I just have a bad feeling about re-treads, especially where the speed limit is 75. If they were new DOT approved tires I might feel differently.

    I doubt you would need chains very often with regular snow tires.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    Yeah, but the price is a lot better than "regular" snow tires in 31" size.

    Besides, WHY do you have a bad feeling?

    Also, aren't these DOT approved? I would imagine they were illegal to run if they were not.
  • hpulley4hpulley4 Member Posts: 591
    and then report to us? ;-)

    All I've ever seen and heard of them is from the company themselves and their ads. Are there any independent tests of them anywhere?
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    I just posted a review in post number 186!

    Just sharing info, and looking to see if anyone else had these (yes, new people do come in all the time, I'd imagine!).
  • hpulley4hpulley4 Member Posts: 591
    Just a few summaries of tests/reviews and a few testimonials. Summaries of reviews can be EXTREMELY misleading. Why don't they link to the actual tests/reviews? Even if they are in German there are translation programs around.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    Sorry, I got my posts mixed.


    Here is a review of the High-tech tires, parent company (or maker?) of the Green Diamonds snow tires: http://www.northeastonlinewheelers.org/retread.html

  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Even if they are in German there are translation programs around.

    Yes, there are but the translations leave a bit to be desired and can, at best, only give you the gist of the document being translated. This makes them only marginally better than a review.

    tidester, host
  • tinyguytinyguy Member Posts: 44
    I currently live in Montreal, Quebec, and have been since 1988. We get our share of snows each winter. I went through couple of Blizzaks and now both of my cars have Arctic Alpines. Why? Although Blizzacks had the best traction under pretty much any winter condition, it was terrible under dry condition. It's handling was real wobbly, and it was wearing out pretty quickly (got 3 winters). When the 50% of the tread worn out, I didn't know what to do with it, since my 4 season tires were still ok. My van currently has the Arctic Alpine, about to go into the 3rd winter. The treads still look almost new. I am going to see if I can get 5 seasons out of it. On dry conditions, I even prefer Arctic Alpines over the crappy OEM Firestone tires that came with the van. Feels smoother on the rough roads, yet I feel more secure under cornering. There is a slight high-pitched sound while driving on the highway, but slightly better than Blizzaks. I drive around 5 months per year on the winter tires, doing around 16000km (10000 miles) per year. I will continue to buy Arctic Alpines.
  • pluto5pluto5 Member Posts: 618
    This tire is excellent on wet and dry roads alike and is priced about the same or less than Firestone. Kumho is certified to produce aircraft tires for Boeing aircraft in case you are concerned about quality product.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    If you want better snow and ice traction than the blizzaks, and better dry traction, I'd take a look at those Green Diamond tires. Sounds like they are exactly what you'd be looking for.
  • zelda6zelda6 Member Posts: 3
    I'm afraid I don't know much about cars so I'm hoping you all can help. I have a 2001 Toyota Celica GT Automatic. I live in New England and I'm sure we are in for a rotten winter. Should I get snow tires or studded tires? Will they help? If I should get tires, what do you suggest I get. Thanks for any information you can give me.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    try these on for size:


    Green Diamond Direct - offers all-season tires for traction on ice, snow, and wet pavement. Tires have embedded carbide granules in the tread rubber for additional traction.


    If that link doesn't work, try http://www.high-tec-retreading.com/diamond.html

  • hpulley4hpulley4 Member Posts: 591
    Snow tires are definitely better than all-seasons for the winter so getting some is a good idea in my opinion. If studded tires are available in your area (they are illegal here in Ontario, Canada) then studs do provide your best traction on ice and deep snow but may not be the best if there is also a lot of dry pavement during the winter in NE. Stud-less snows may be a better bet if there is often dry pavement but often snow and ice as well.

    The Celica GT is a sporty car. If you want to retain the sporty handling, you may want to get a snow sport tire like the Dunlop WinterSport, the Pilot Alpin or the Pirelli SnowSport. They have H speed ratings, compared to Q for most regular studless snows, and will likely handle much better on dry pavement for times when it isn't snowy.

    I have Dunlop WinterSports on my MINI Cooper and I find them to be excellent in dry, wet, snow and ice.
  • ray80ray80 Member Posts: 1,655
    I am currently using toyo observes (stud-less winter tire) and this will be the 3rd winter on them. Seem to last much longer then the blizzacks I had previously and while not quite as good on ice, they do get me thru without any problem, and I do drive despite any weather we have seen in NE.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    The granules in the green diamond tires act like studs to give grip, yet keep replenishing themselves, because they are built into the tire itself, rather than pushed or drilled in. They also provide better grip (according to mfr) than the Blizzaks, without sacrificing good weather traction. They can be used as a snow tire AND a year round tire.
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