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Comments
All dusters like this basically "dry" dust your car. if they touch the car, the risk of some minor scratching is there. If your car has a good coat of wax and you use the duster very lightly, any scratches will be easily removed with the next wax/polish treatment. I would not recommend you dry dust your car unless there is an overriding reason. People do this at car shows because the tiny bit of scratching is less of a problem at the moment, than the dust. For a street car, try to do a proper wash if you can, rather than dry dust. I use a fine synthetic dust "plume" I bought from a Fuller Brush dealer. It's as good as anything I've tried, but again, only as a last resort if you just can't stand the dust!
#151
Clay magic is a bit softer than Erazer, both appear to work with about identical results. The firmer bar is no problem at normal temps, in fact I prefer it.
The clay needs to mold to the contours of the surface, and both Clay Magic and Erazer get firmer when cold. I think some here have advocated putting your clay in your armpit (in a plastic bag)to warm it up if you have to use it on cold days, but it will get cold again quickly. If used with enough liquid as lubricant, it should not be a problem (unless it's below freezing), but if you can wait for a warmer day, I think you will find the results more satisfying.
I don't think Zaino will be a problem at the temps you mention.
Don
Thanks for the tip on swirl marks. I Dawned and clayed most of the van last night. What an improvement! However, there are no swirl marks so far (we'll see after a coat or two of Z2). When I purchased the van, the dealer tried to sell me the paint sealant and protection package because I was driving 1,500 miles home with it. (I got a good deal at $316 over invoice for a vehicle that you have to wait 3 months to pay MSRP).
I respectively declined his offer so I haven't seen the swirl marks.
dmattgam,
I also live in Massachusetts and have the temperature issue. My garage is in the 50+ range and have no problem though pick as warm a day as possible and knead the clay. You can put the clay in a warm water/soap (not Dawn) solution I believe though I haven't resorted to this yet. The only hazard I think to claying is the clay becomes stiff in cold weather. Another suggestion: Heat your garage a little with an electric heater. It might give you a couple more degrees....
Thanks for informative tips on claying. I learn a lot from this group.
bostnwhalr:
Did you use "Clay Magic" or the product "Surface Cleaning Material" from "www.erazer.com". If you used Clay magic, where did you get it ? I tried searching for Clay Magic on the web and lots of things that have nothing to do with claying the cars. Thanks.
when I said dealer prep, I simply meant when they wash and polish the car, not the "paint sealer" junk or protection packages--both wastes of money. It's something you need to have good light and the proper viewing angle to see.
The California Car Duster is as "safe" as anything you could wipe your car down. As shoman said, anytime you rub anything across the paint surface you risk getting some degree of scratches but I know people who use them and they don't get any noticeable scratches on their Zaino'd cars.
Also, they only use them for removing a very light coat of dust and never after the car has been driven. Bits of brake dust and god knows what else settles on the car when it is driven and that stuff can really leave some scratches.
The duster is impregnated (sp?) with wax and if you apply much pressure while dusting or the paint is hot you can get some streaks from the wax. I think the instructions that come with the duster recommend that you leave it sitting on a newspaper over night to absorb some of the wax from the strands. And last but not least, the duster (this includes synthetic and cotton dusters as well as cotton towels when used dry ie; without Z6 etc...) will cause static and make your paint actually attract dust. Kinda redundant, don't you think? :-) If you use Zaino and have a duster just wipe down with Z6 after you dust to eliminate most of the static and help avoid this problem. :-)
RichIITF,
The first Erazer material I used did leave some "crumbs" after several uses with something other than their lube but I have gotten and used more Erazer with both Dawn and Zaino Z7 with H2O as a lube and had no problems. I think they must have fixed that problem. I have come to like Erazer as good as, if not a little better than Clay Magic. I know I like the texture and tack of Erazer better but they get the same results. From my experiences I would say that the Erazer material is an excellent alternative to Clay Magic. Another plus it how easy it is to find/order Erazer. :-) I feel confident that you'll be happy with Erazer if you try it.
dmattgam,
Clay Magic and Erazer are two somewhat different products that are designed to accomplish the same thing. As I mentioned above, I like the texture and tack of Erazer a little better than Clay Magic and it's much easier to find. You can't go wrong with either product.
When claying in cool/cold weather I'd suggest starting (on an already washed car, of course) with a fresh bucket of warm water with Zaino Z7 car wash mixed like wash water and use a cotton bath towel to keep the surface lubed with the mixture. Let the Erazer or clay soak in the warm water for a few minutes before starting.
By doing this and keeping the clay and the paint somewhat warm with the soapy water the clay should remain pliable enough to properly form to the contours of your car. If it starts getting a little firm just drop it in the bucket and let it warm again. Oh, and sit the bucket on an old chair or something instead of the floor/ground. The floor/ground (especially concrete) will suck the warmth right out of the water, probably before you can get started good. :-)
As for using Zaino in the cold weather, just allow for plenty of dry time.
Stillwater,
Good decision on passing up the "paint protection" deal. :-)
Chris Parrish
nd4speed@bellsouth.net
You seem to know a lot about maintenance a car so I thought you might know the answer to this question.
I got a catalog from a mail order place called Griot's Garage in Tacoma, WA. They have two brushes that they advertised to be the best ones to wash your car. The brush is made of boar hair that is manually assembled in the USA. The one w/o the handle costs $69.95 and the one that has a handle to attach to a water hose costs $79.95.
They are rather expensive. Before buying it, I wonder if you (or someome on this list) know or heard of this brush before. Are they as good as they advertised ? Thanks.
Both Erazer clays seem to work the same, and are equally effective, but I find the firmer product easier to work with and since it holds it's shape better, you spend less time fiddling with it.
The yellow bar also looks like it might last longer and be less effected by some liquids.
Choose your style and clay your car!
Don
I've seen reference to a more abrasive type of clay on these pages (somewhere). How do I know what I got? Is there a difference, and could I tell the difference?
I don't think anyone here has intimated using clay with every wash.... The usual indications are once per year.
The other type of clay (and I believe this refers to Clay Magic brand) is red. It's more abrasive, not generally available in stores, and shouldn't be used unless you know what you're doing.
I agree with Stillwater that claying is NOT something to be done on a regular basis (ie weekly or even monthly). A test that is often recommended is to feel the surface of the paint. If it is still smooth to the touch, you do not need to clay the car. OTOH, if the paint is rough feeling and your hand does not glide easily over the paint surface, it is probably time to clay the car again.
I personally clay my cars two to three times per year. Your mileage may vary.
Rob
I personally don't recommend ANY brush for washing painted surfaces on cars. I have never used a car wash brush that didn't leave scratches to some extent. I get Griot's catalog but I haven't used their brush so I can't speak from experience as to whether or not it scratches. I'm not taking the chance on my car. :-) I'd stay with cotton toweling or mitts to be safe.
jocaro,
Clay won't remove as much paint material as an abrasive polish does. Clay was designed to remove the contaminants without harming the paint. I wouldn't recommend claying more than two or maybe three times a year but it has nothing to do with paint damage. My reason is that unless you live in an area that has absolutely terrible industrial fallout there's just not really a need to clay any more than that. Don't worry about removing material with clay. The only clay bar that I know of containing abrasives would be the red Clay Magic bar and possibly an "industrial" grade from Erazer (not sure but will find out). If you get the blue Clay Magic or the yellow Erazer you'll be fine.
ruski,
Finish First (FF) left swirls all over my black 95 Mustang Cobra. I done the whole cotton towel thing and it made no difference. I don't care how I used it I got swirls. Another observation with FF was that I couldn't get the depth that I get with multi-coats of Zaino. The FF seemed to strip it's self and start over after two or maybe three coats. The multi-coat benifit and the clarity just wasn't there. I wasn't happy with FF at all.
The only person that I can remember hearing praise FF was acerone, a Finish First distributor. :-)
Chris Parrish
nd4speed@bellsouth.net
I used Claymagic and I found it at PepBoys. The local Autozone looked at me like I had two heads when I asked for Clay. Of course they had shelf after shelf of the Megiars stuff.
Stillwater,
The dealer applied absolutely no wax on the van. I made sure of it! This is a good thing.
The Odyssey has received its Z2 and Z5 in one spot. So far it looks great. I think I went a little heavy on the Z2 and Z1 because there was some residual left on the van in a couple spots, but not bad. Vans are alot of work and its easy to just want to hurry up and get sloppy.
I don't have any Z7 car wash solution and wish I had ordered some for when I clayed. It would have saved my one step of "Dawning".
At some point in the next week, I will do another coat of Z2 and Z6.
Now, onto my 1986 Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe. I'm expecting excellent results.
Speaking of Erazer, when I looked at their web site and they showed the white car with the micro-rust stains, it reminded me of my white 1997 Civic. It would get these little spots that had to be buffed out. It came out but something tells me it was that rail contamination or whatever getting through the paint. My black Civic never showed this type of damage.
Chris,
Was the person that you spoke with from BAF/ Pro Products? If so, they do have a red colored clay that contains harsh abrasives, and may cause minor scratches or hazing when you apply their product.
To answer the question about "flaking" with erazer, our "white" colored bar is a much softer product that tends to break down with repeated use of soap and water. The heavy soaps actually break down the material. Our new "yellow" composition is much stronger and can be used with any dillution of soap and water without worry of deteriorating the composition or effecting the performance. Actually, the yellow color also allows you to see what contamination is in the "clay". Most other bars are a dark color blue, red, or green, which hide the contamination. This dark color could be dangerous, because you can never tell how dirty or what contaminants are in the"clay". If you get something like a chunk of dirt, tar, or a rock in the "clay" you could cause serious damage to your paint. Also, many on the market are offering 2 and 3 different bars, what we have done is eliminated the need for multiple compositions with 1 product that does it all.
As for how many times you should "clay" your paint, I agree with others who have posted, you don't need to do it as often as you wash. Three or four times a year will make certain that paint contamination doesn't seriously effect your finish, however the longer that contaminants are left untreated, the more damage they can cause, and the harder they are to remove. As for new vehicles, I recommend "cleaning" your paint ASAP, as shown by photo's in our website (www.erazer.com) white vehicles show the contamination well, yet just because the paint is a dark color, doesn't mean that contamination is not present.
Many who have purchase our product have sent emails to say how amazed they were when they used our product on the new vehicle that they just purchased. They couldn't believe how contaminated their paint was.
You can easily feel the contaminants on a dark colored vehicle when the surface is wet with soap and water. A wet surface will allow you to feel contamination better than a dry one. Simply test your finish when washing by taking your hand and gently rubbing the surface. If it is not smooth as a baby's bottom, you need to clean your paint. Wax can also be a fooler. If you have already waxed your vehicle without first cleaning it, the wax may make the finish feel smooth. This can be decieving because the wax has only covered the contaminants, not removed them.
The amount of driving you do, and the environment where you drive and park will have an effect on the amount of surface contaminants that get on your vehicle.
Please feel free to directly drop me an email (wk4it@aol.com) with any questions. I also check this message board weekely, and will jump in to try and help answer "clay questions", but i do have to say that many on this board already know their "clay-stuff".
Thanks,
John
(erazer, founder & ceo)
Thank you for your response. I just bought a new 4runner, and REALLY don't want to screw up my finish this soon. By he way, I've been to your web site nd find the info about clay excellent, but how does one get to a page from which you can order?
I think you probably did get a little thick in the spots. These spots were probably not completely dry when you removed the residue. When you remove Zaino, if you have spots that are not dry and do not come off crystal clear just dampen a cotton towel and wipe that area down. I'm sure that if you had given it a little longer to dry you wouldn't have had any trouble. :-)
John (erazer),
I haven't talked to PRO. It was someone else that posted that they had been warned by a PRO representative about claying too often. :-) Thanks for dropping in and being part of the forum.
joecaro,
I'm not John but I can help. Go to http://www.erazer.com/page15.html and use the toll free number to order Erazer clay. :-)
Chris Parrish
nd4speed@bellsouth.net
Where can I find ZAION. I have a new black F-250
and I would not let the dealer lay a hand on my new Truck, not even with a vac.
Thanks.
I am glad I did not get it.
Getting my piggyback ready to dispense some money for Zaino now.
How long does a set of Zaino last? I have two cars that want to be Zainoed.
Actually, my GTP was Gold Classed a few months ago and it is still shiny despite bad weather.
I have also tried Zymol (liquid in the blue bottle) in the past. Damn thing left swirl marks all over my 96 Buick Riviera (Majestic Teal Metallic).
If the person whose daughter painted the inside of his van is still reading this topic - I have had success removing black magic marker stains from my Taupe leather seats on the Buick Riviera (damn parking garage guys left the stains and then denied it - probably had a marker in the back pocket). I tried a lot of leather cleaners and nothing worked. I then got one of those "As seen on TV" things in a yellow tube. I can't remember the name but I think it is similar to DiDi-7. I was sceptical about it, and initially it did not seem to work. But then the stain got dissolved with no apparent damage to the leather. I applied some leather cleaner and conditioner as soon as possible after however!
Check http://www.cyburban.com/~afyodoro/autos.html
to see my rides and their shines. No Zaino yet however. After wife ratifies project Z, work will start in the spring.
So you say the best results can be achieved if the car is washed at the crack of dawn?
What is the proper way to use Clay Magic. I picked some up to try on my old car. Do you need to rub it in until it starts sticking to the surface, or does that mean that I need more lubricating fluid ? Any tips that you can offer would be helpful.
you wrote
"I don't have any Z7 car wash solution and wish I
had ordered some for when I clayed. It would have
saved my one step of 'Dawning'."
Z7 is NOT a substitute for Dawn. Z7 is for regular washing; Dawn is ONLY for those times when you want to strip the wax or polish off of your car.
The clay should NOT stick to the car. It takes some practice, but
1) make sure it's well lubed.
2) apply pressure--more than if you were washing the car, but not a lot more. You don't want to accidently crease your sheetmetal. Clay magic comes with a little plastic glove; put it on, spray some lube onto an untreated section, and feel the surface. You'll feel the grit. Now clay that area then wash it off; feel it again. It should feel smoother. If you don't notice a difference, re-clay (more lube), a little harder.
Just be careful not to push the sheetmetal in.
As mentioned, you should use plenty of liquid lubricant (car wash, the spray that comes with it, Meguiars Quick detailer etc) with clay.
Properly used, clay should glide over the surface of your car like a patty of butter in a hot teflon skillet. if it sticks or drags at all (other than the minor amount if you have a LOT of overspray or sap etc) you need more liquid.
No need to apply much pressure at all. Clay Magic is fairly soft, so apply just enough pressure to keep it from squirting out of your hand, and slightly flatten it. More pressure does nothing extra, the clay will do it's work with very little pressure. As the clay flattens, just fold it in half to make it stays about the same size. You don't want it getting to thin.
According to the instructions on the packages I have, the glove is to test the paint, not put on while using the product, but I guess you could do that too! The instructions say to use the glove to rub over your paint BEFORE claying, to test for the need to clay, and make it more dramatic when you are through. The glove will stick on the stuff that is in your paint. After claying, it won't stick to the paint.
Don
You're right, I meant to clarify that I'm now dawning, claying, dawning again. The Z7 used as a lubricant would eliminate the second Dawning. Am I right? I understand I have to dawn initially.
You are correct. If you use Z7/H2O as a lube there's no need for a second Dawn wash before Zaino is aplied. Also, if you use a conventional wax there's no need to do a second Dawn wash even if you use the lube supplied by the clay manufacturer. The oily film that may be left by the lube won't prevent optimum results with regular wax as it could with Zaino.
ruski,
The length of time an order of Zaino will last depends on how often you apply it. I get from 8 to 10 coats of Z2 per bottle on my Trans Am. One coat every two months would last from 16 to 20 months at that rate. Of course if you apply more than one coat initially or apply more often the time before running out would obviously be shorter. The Z1 lasts longer than the Z2 or Z5 since you only apply it during the first application and then once or twice a year, depending on vehicle usage.
I go through Z6 pretty quick as I use it for wiping down the paint, glass, wheels, and under the hood when I wash my car. I always order extra Z6 when I order.
Hope this helps.
CP
Last summer I became a Zainoist after using Zaino for the first time. I was new to claying and didn't know that I should have used the Z7 instead of the lube that came with Clay Magic. I dawn washed my new Intrigue and then clayed with the clay lube. I didn't dawn after claying and just applied Z1 and then Z2. I have experienced no problems with doing it this way but next time I will be sure to use Z7 as the lube.
I just wanted to pass that along as there may be some others out there who might have skipped the dawn step as I unwittingly did. Thanks for all your help in this conference once again.
2. I have not tried calying yet, and will only be able to do it in the srping. However I am already getting very nervous about dropping the claybar on the ground. I am thinking about poking a hole in the clay bar and attaching a rope to it. Then I guess I will attach the other end of the rope to my neck or maybe to something on the car (don't want the neighbors to think that I am gonna hang myself:). How does this sound?
I'll try the Didi-7 if I can find it -- I hope this won't involve hours of watching Animal Planet on Saturday mornings for the commercial ;-)
The only other "As Seen on TV" product I've bought was GS-27 -- what a scam! How they make that stuff work in the ads is truly TV magic.
The clay is very soft and needs to be folded over on itself several times during use to keep it in shape. I think you will find the rope idea more trouble than it is worth.
Try this instead ....Spread an old sheet on the ground where you are working, like a painters drop cloth. Or maybe some plastic sheeting, it's cheap at most hardware stores.
Realistically, you can pick out any big stuff that might get in the clay, and if you drop it in dust or dirt, then take a knife and just slice a layer off. As always, if you don't feel you can get everything out, then buy a new bar, it's cheaper than new paint.
Don
Couple of comments:
1) it looks like something Luke Skywalker would build if he had access to a decent Home Depot. PVC pipe and a couple of misc. fittings.
2) I rec'd a 'free' recharge kit with mine ($6.99 if purchased seperately!) It consists of a plastic syringe (like the one I use to measure medicine for my baby) and instructions telling you to get coffee pot cleaner and salt and use them.
I'm about done assembling my goodies.. my wife is getting suspicious of all the packages (translation: expense) arriving at the house. Zaino, Erazer, Spot Free, now where are those towels?
Bri
Just took my van to Miami last week end. I usually clay (Clay Magic, blue one) the front hood and bumper of my van after a long trek like this (500+ miles). Especially during the love bug season.
This time, I clayed the windows also. The front wind shield was plastered with bugs residue, and a regular wash did not get all the sticky residue off... The clay worked great for easily removing this gunk; my windows are crystal clear now. ;-)
Yes, you are one brave lady!! Anyone who has never experienced the damage of lovebugs is missing the scare of a lifetime. It is akin to putting dilute paint remover on your paint. And of course the longer you let it sit, the better it works. Happy to see the products you used worked and seemingly work well!!
It's been a while! Using clay on your windshield? Great idea, and I'll try it too. I used the Zaino glass polish on the outside of my windows and it made a big difference. After using it on the inside too, I found that I didn't have to run my defroster continually during a rain storm. No condensation (fog) build up on the inside. I also clean my wiper blades whenever I clean my windows.
The Z-2 and Z-6 seems to work well on the wipers and keep them in supple form. They also seem to prolong the life of a pr of WW blades. I have a set going on one yr old, which is parked outside. There is one trick that I do. I use the scotch pad on the other side of a sponge, on the wipers, when I perceive them to get a bit streaky. Of cours,e I redo with either z-2 or z-6. I will also try the clay on the glass.
it is Multi-7
It contains "mineral spirits, soaps, and reducing agents", whatever that means.
It is described on the box as "a powerful 7 day week multi-purpose stain remover for the house, shop, car and office, removes hundreds of stains on clothing, linens, carpets, upholstery, glass, jewelry,siverware, floors, tiles, hands, etc. Safe to use on natural or synthetic colourfast fabrics, even on delicate silk"
Sounds too good to be true. I don't know what pushed me to use it on my Riv's leather, but it worked. I got it at the "As seen on TV" store on 5th Avenue in NYC. I would not know how to order it. Not sure if they still carry it in that store. Sale price was $7.99 for a tube of 3 1/2 oz. (original price was 19.95)
For what it's worth - it says "phosphate free".
Suggestions?
Be careful using the "multi-7" on dyed or painted surfaces. Mineral spirits happens to be a pretty nasty solvent. Put it this way, it is used as a thinner for some paints. There is a very good possibility that any dyed or painted surface could be discolored when cleaned with the multi-7 if it contains mineral spirits. Just a caution to save you heart ache. :-)
Chris Parrish
nd4speed@bellsouth.net
After very briefly following a dump truck my brand new VW Passat was pelted with gravel. When I arrived home I noticed that one spot on the hood, about the size of the head of a pin was chipped off. I was livid, but felt fortunate that it wasn't worse. What do I do? The car is a Black Magic Pearlcoat color. The dealer suggested touch-up, however, I'm not so sure of my artistry in this area. I'd hate to mess up the lovely paint on this new car. The touch up paint comes in two tubes, one the paint, and the other is presumeably the clear or is it pearlcoat. Please help!