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Waxes And Polishes

the various topics we have on these products.
For the previous discussions please check out
the now closed Welcome Conference's What's the
best Wax & Polish? (Topic #235)
and Smart
Shopper's
What's the best wax & polish? -
Part 2 (Topic #970)
.

Catch yourself up and come back here to continue!

Bonnie Rick
Town Hall Community Manager, edmunds.com
«13456720

Comments

  • joecarojoecaro Posts: 44
    Question, Bonnie. Is this topic #8 under Maint and Repair Conference? I accessed this through your link, but it does not appear on the "Town Hall" web page and thus can't be accessed from there, as near as I can tell.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    What is the consensus of using a (3 in bristle)
    body brush(with long handle) on the underside of
    the wheel wells, to remove dirt from normal or
    winter driving?
  • You are correct...we haven't technically opened these Conferences, so they don't show on our Conference lists yet.

    Right now we're in the process of moving topics over to these new areas, and freezing and linking them.

    In the meantime, feel free to bookmark the new Conferences and participate, and as soon as we are officially open for business, the new Conference lists will go up.

    We appreciate your patience and support!

    Bonnie Rick
    Town Hall Community Manager, edmunds.com
  • shomanshoman Posts: 97
    Ruking,
    I would recommend going to a car wash and getting as much as possible out with high pressure spray. If your wheel wells are painted, then try not to scratch the paint (and thus start more rust). If your wheel wells are undercoated, then brushes shouldn't do much harm, and you can always touch up the undercoat if you get it clean enough.
    By undercoat, I mean the old black tough stuff, the new waxy rust-proofing that some places use can be hurt by brushes, but it can be touched up. Amsoil makes an excellent trigger spray light undercoating that sprays on and is very light tan in just a couple of coats. Very good for protecting frame, undercarriage parts that have exposed metal. It must be put on in LIGHT coats, as it runs easily.

    Don
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    #4
    The pressure wash is already being done. The wheel wells are painted but with rust proofing that is rough to the touch and not smooth like body paint. The brush has 3 in or so bristles that are meant for normal body paint(though I personally would not use anything other than a syn mitt or 100% cotton or syn sponge) I take it, you think it is ok after the high pressure routine!??
  • shomanshoman Posts: 97
    #5,
    I sure can't see why you can't use the brush in this case. Meguiars Final Inspection sprayed on undercoating can make a nice temporary spiff up for show purposes.

    Don
  • Rob360Rob360 Posts: 33
    Don-

    Since you didn't "see anything of consequence" that needed responding to in my last post (#482) perhaps you could clarify a few things for me in response to this post.

    In post #480, you state that:

    ""For my purposes a "few" weeks can be 6 to 12 weeks (or up to three months.) and that is what I have been saying most products tend to last. ""

    I think the key phrase there is the term "For my purposes". Most people certainly would not consider 12 weeks to be the same as a "few" weeks!

    But, more importantly, YOU do not seem to truly believe that your beloved Collonite lasts 12 weeks. If the prior phrase I posted from your own website wasn't enough, upon further reading I discovered this little gem:

    ""A good coat of wax should last about a month maximum. Especially if your car sees daily duty and bad weather. If it's not driven much and
    garaged much of each day, maybe two months. If you wash your car weekly or more often, then wax won't last longer.""

    Hmmm. Now, Don, for "your purposes" can you please explain how "..a month maximum" equates to three months???

    Remember, even though you qualify your statement above by saying the wax will last longer (up to two months) if the car isn't driven much and is garaged much of the day, in your post in this forum YOU stated that Collonite would last THREE months OR MORE even in SEVERE midwestern use!

    Why don't you come clean Don, and admit that your Collonite DOES NOT last "Three months or more".

    And while you are at it, perhaps you could explain WHY you have led others here to believe that Collonite lasts three months, when you yourself don't even believe that.

    In post 485 Don writes:

    ""My comments on my web site stand on their own.
    I stand behind them and believe in them. I put my thoughts and experience out there for all to see. ""

    And this is the reason for the title of this post. Which is it Don? Do you stand behind and believe in the comments on your website, or the comments that you post here on Edmunds. They do NOT appear to be one and the same. I dare say they are mutually exclusive.

    As far as "putting your thoughts and experience out there for all to see", I don't think this is necessarily a good thing. Especially when you give contradictory opinions, and then fail to acknowledge that fact. And to give advice like the following:

    ""Any wash product will strip wax off, thus my use of Ivory over the years, since no real wash product can clean and also "wax".""

    My god. If you are using Ivory to wash your cars, I am surprised your Collonite lasts more than a week. It seems that some of your "tips" would send us back to the dark ages of auto care! But, hey, that's just my opinion!

    Rob
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    #7
    Actually Meguairs recommends waxing 8-10 times a yr, with a minimum of bi-annual polish/prep. The two systems are the Meguairs #26 a carnuba rich paste and liquid wax and also the Gold Class,which as a lower % of carnuba and emphasizes shine over protection. Actually the recommendation didn't change much whether a daily driver or parked in garage for up to 18 hrs a day.
    While my gut level feeling is that collonite might be marginally better, Meguairs, anyway doesnt seem to last much past 1.5 mo.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    If you are using a dawn or ivory product, be forwarned that you have just removed most, if not all of the wax that was place on the paint. While there are many reasons for doing this; you do not have wax or polish protection left.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Dear Rob,

    I think the key to all automotive car products is the old line: "You results may vary".

    You can't really hold our fellow posters here to a level of results that can take place in a controlled laboratory. He's giving his opinion based on his results (which may vary from application to application) and you're giving yours based on your experience. So nobody's right or wrong, and flexibility makes for good discussions.

    My results with just about any product I've ever tried suggests about 60 days on a coat of wax before it starts to look a little ragged. Of course, I have a red car that stays outside, so "your results may vary"...;)
  • Over the last month and a half, I've put three layers of Zaino on my brand new car, a red flame metallic Solara.
    Just brought it in for the first scheduled maintenance today (1,000 miles)... parked it in the dealer's back lot and waited for the service guy in the parking lot (they have some guy out there whose job it is to take your keys and tag the cars, before you check in at the service desk).
    He pulled a customer's van up along my new car, opened the door, and the van's door slammed against my car's beautiful finish!
    I'm not normally given to expletives, but some colorful ones immediately flew out of my mouth. He said "sorry, it slipped." He promised to compound the mark (which was quite visible--not a ding, per se, but a three-inch vertical scrape).
    When I picked up the car, the door panel was covered with polishing compound; they hadn't washed it off. When I got the car home, I washed and soaped and washed.... the scrape is STILL THERE. I'm going to make them repaint it tomorrow. #&#($&#%#
    This really kills the joy of a new car; it still has the new car smell.
  • shomanshoman Posts: 97
    #9,
    Ivory, used as I use it (tiny squirt in a bucket of water) will NOT strip all of your wax/polish off in just one wash.
    Any type of washing action will remove some product, even rinsing with clear water and drying as gently as possible with soft towels.
    I prefer to use a product that can cut through the crud of daily driving. I have used lots of different "car wash" products, and none of them to date ( haven't tried the Zaino wash yet) including Meguires best wash product will clean or hold suds (suds are important for helping carry dirt off a car and provide some lubrication to prevent scratches) as well as a tiny squirt of Ivory. I don't recommend any other product, and I am talking Liquid Ivory, not the powder.
    One of my personal tests for a wash product is how much does the wash mit/cloth drag on the surface? Meguiars fails this test completely. It's like trying to wash in pancake syrup, the mitt sticks so bad. Suds go away in about two dips of the mitt.
    My wax protection lasts as long washing with Ivory as with any other product I have tried. This is just one of those myths (Ivory strips wax) that persist. If wax/polish was that easily removed, it would wash off in days of the acid rain filled with lots worse stuff than a bucket of clean water with a little soap in it. Of course some wax products are not as durable as others. So, your wax mileage might vary.

    Don
  • shomanshoman Posts: 97
    Got a chance today to put the Z-2 on at least part of my SHO Taurus. The trunk lid.

    After cleaning, I used Z-1, Z-5 and finally Z-2 (with Z-6 between the Z-5/Z-2 and after the Z-2.)

    I waited about 20 minutes between coats, not having days to leave my car tied up inside the garage, and letting the product dry for 1/2 to a full day is not required, the instructions say let set for 10 minutes. The temp was 70 degrees in my garage for this session.

    I must say the Z-2 seemed to wipe off easier than the Z-3 that I let sit overnight everytime, not sure if that's a function of the different product or the time left on the car. I have noticed that leaving Collonite or Gold Class on for more than 10 minutes or so, does make it harder to get that product off, so maybe it's the same with Zaino?
    After five steps with Zaino (Z-1, Z-5, Z-6, Z-2, Z-6) and one step with Collonite I can't tell a real difference in the amount of minor scratches in this clearcoat (remember this car had been through full service car wash hell before I bought it. I have spent the last several years using Phaze Glaze Or 3M Pink Fill-N-Glaze to take out most of them, the paint looks pretty good, but still a bit tired) I had hopes that the Zaino would do as advertised and make more of the minor problems go away. The Z-5 is supposed to do this.
    I look forward to seeing the results in better light though (it was snowing and just opening the garage door had the trunk covered with it!) and seeing how each side holds up to the weather. BTW, my garage has pretty good lighting and skylight can get in through roof panels, so I wasn't in the dark.
    REVELATION! My famous (infamous) bottle test actually came out on the Zaino side this time on the SHO! Also I tried a clean soft cotton rag and could feel a real difference in drag (very slight, but real) in favor (less drag) of Zaino.

    The Grand Prix (with three coats of Z-3) has been sitting uncovered for more thann three days now, and no noticable accumulation of dust is noticed on either side (half the hood is Collonite, half Zaino Z-3). A friend gave his blind test opinion today (he is a painter and old Porsche expert). Without saying what products I used, I asked him to point to the side of the hood he liked best. He picked the Collonite side after careful examination and without reservation. We will be trying Zaino on his new 911 Turbo when time/weather allows.

    Don
  • mrimri Posts: 7
    My understanding from reading all the posts on this topic is that Dawn is specifically recommended for when you WANT to remove all the wax (prior to polishing/waxing again). Dawn and only Dawn. So my impression was that other mild soaps (like Ivory) would NOT remove wax nearly as much, and thus would be suitable for regular washing (as Don states).

    Winter washing: Here in Akron, Ohio we have a few "touchless" car washes that use no brushes or cloths to wash the car. They get the cars suprisingly clean, and then they hand dry with cotton towels. That's the best winter washing solution I've found.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    #14
    Ivory and Dawn are the two best detergents for cutting grease and such .... and that was taken from a Consumer Reports of some time back. I have both and they perform very closely the same job. So how one magically doesnt strip wax and the other does strip wax on car paint is simply magical thinking. If you want to use it as your car wash so be it. I use it to prep for Zaino and can attest to how it leaves the paint. But it also pulls off Meguairs #26 and Gold Class very well. As you say results do vary.
  • shomanshoman Posts: 97
    ruking,

    Also, HOW you use it makes a difference. When I TRY to cut off wax (as in my Zaino test) I use a high concentration. When I am just trying to clean and make suds, I put a tiny bit in a bucket. Big difference in the results. A little works great to "clean" a car and won't strip off all your wax in one gentle wash, and more than any other "washing" operation. 30 years experience has proved that for me.

    Don
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    #16
    Have to admit; you do have a flair for the obvious.
  • Rob360Rob360 Posts: 33
    Don (aka Shoman)

    It would appear that you are taking the easy way out, and have simply decided not to respond to my posts about your inconsistent statements.

    Guess you finally painted yourself into a corner to the point that even you couldn't argue yourself out of! I was kind of expecting a response saying "For my purposes, one month equals three months"!

    Your comments regarding the accumulation of dust are highly questionable to me. I have used tons of carnauba based products, and they always seem to attract dust like a magnet. Zaino seems to repel it. Perhaps another "comparison" would be in order by someone who does not sell either Zaino or Collonite, (which I get the distinct impression that you do)? I have a few extra bucks....why don't you tell me where to get some Collonite? I will do my comparison with Zaino, and when finished, I can mail the left over Collonite to another person who posts here, for their own comparison. If there is still some left, that person can pass the Collonite on to another, until we have a few different people doing the comparison and posting their results here.

    What do people think?

    Rob

    Rob
  • guitarzanguitarzan OhioPosts: 832
    Rob, I agree with your analysis of carnauba, because I have experienced it. However, taking long posts to lambaste someone who is here for information and enjoyment is not right.

    I will be looking forward to your test. Me, I don't have the patience to compare 2 wax products, but may side with your winner :)
  • gusgus Posts: 254
    Rob,

    A comparison sounds like a fine idea. Nothing is preventing you from making a case for your favorite wax or polish. Do your thing, take careful notes and post your results.

    As for me, I prefer a nice, fuzzy oxidized finish. No amount of talking by anyone is going to convince me that waxing/polishing my car is worth the time or money.

    (Guitarzan, thanks for your post, you slipped in before me!!)
  • shomanshoman Posts: 97
    Rob,

    I replied to your post. You either accept it or not. Continuing to foul up the topic with illogical and useless posts of a hateful nature is counter productive.
    Paint myself into a corner? Hide? Where have I failed to respond (responding to the same repeated question is like continuing to hide from someone shouting "the sky is falling".) and where am I hiding? I am here, and the tactics of a schoolyard bully won't change that.
    I for one, am trying to move on and do something useful on the list. Care to join the rest of us?
    Good luck with your test.

    Don
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    #18
    Don't waste your time and money!! First of all the test was done. It would be very hard for a vendor of say a competitor of Zaino to admit that the competition was better so he did the next best thing and that was to say that it was good; but, maybe... not much better than say Collonite. If he is not a vendor, he is saying it is hard for him to say that something else may be better, let alone that he might be wrong. (The clue is the reference to the 30 yrs of experience.) If he is saying that Zaino has to be many times better and you believe him; then if Zaino is arithmetically better you miss out. Then if Collonite comes close... I think you get my drift.

    I mean if he thinks that only one of two chemically similar detergents strips wax and the other doesn't and then when pointed out the similarness; sez, gee stupid its the concentration...what do you reasonably expect him to say??
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    #22
    You already use the real deal. In effect, you have already heard the results of the longtime test of Collonite.
  • anne4anne4 Posts: 35
    At last: an honest post from someone who may be more typical of the majority of us car owners who rarely wax/polish their cars! You're in good company; a walk thru any parking lot will confirm that most cars don't have decent wax jobs.

    I bought a new Honda Accord 5.5 years ago and swore that I would wax it often. Well, I didn't. Was just as slovenly and lazy as most car owners. My car repaid me by getting etched-in water spots that I just had to remove with a polishing compound before Zainoing. All this effort to make it shiny for resale purposes.

    Just bought a new Honda Odyssey. With this vehicle I will reform. ("Hi, my name is Ann, and I am a recovering non-waxer/polisher.") Have already put 2 coats of Zaino on the van. This is not an easy feat because the van is so big, and i have to use a step ladder to reach the roof. I swear I will re-Zaino every 3 months until, uh, I don't any more.
  • Rob --

    If you're really interested in a comparison, here's a web site that offers Collonite.

    Knock yourself out. Hey, at $24.95 a can, better you than me. ;-)
  • Let's try this again (I got so excited about the price I forgot the address):

    http://www.autofanatics.com/

    Have fun!
  • Rob360Rob360 Posts: 33
    Shoman writes"

    ""Rob,
    I replied to your post. You either accept it or
    not. Continuing to foul up the topic with
    illogical and useless posts of a hateful nature is counter productive.""

    Don- Please tell me where you responded to my post #7. Did I miss it? Yes, you responded to my original post about your inconsistent statements regarding how long Collinite lasts by explaining that "for your purposes, a few weeks can mean up to 12 weeks". But in post #7, I raise a different issue. You state that you have never seen a wax last more than a month. My question to you is, how does this jive with your statement on this board that Collinite lasts "three months or more even in severe midwestern use"?

    THAT IS THE QUESTION! Care to respond?


    Shoman continues:

    ""Paint myself into a corner? Hide? Where have I failed to respond (responding to the same repeated question is like continuing to hide from someone shouting "the sky is falling".)""

    Yes, Don, I think you painted yourself into a corner by saying that for your purposes a few weeks equals up to 12 weeks, even though on your own website you say you have never seen a wax last more than a month.

    As far as hiding, I do not believe I ever used that term. That is your word. What I said was that you failed to respond to my questions. As indicated, they are NOT the same questions! Also, I really don't believe that the issues I have raised regarding your comments here can be equated
    to yelling the sky is falling. I truly believe that I have raised some important, valid questions regarding your credibility and advice. No more, no less.

    Shoman continues:

    ""and where am I hiding? I am here, and the tactics of a schoolyard bully won't change that.""

    Again, I did not use the term that you were "hiding". One thing I have noticed about many of your responses to posts is that you tend to really twist things around to use to your advantage. Why?

    If you feel my tactics are that of a "schoolyard bully" I apologize, but at the same time I don't think I have been particularly harsh, given the circumstances. After all, I have never accused you of having a burr up your behind or telling you to get a life, or other personal insults which you have used towards me.

    Shoman continues:

    ""I for one, am trying to move on and do something useful on the list. Care to join the rest of us?""

    Yeah, real useful tips like telling everyone they should use Ivory dish soap to wash there cars. That advice alone is enough to wipe out any credibility you have with me.

    As far as me doing something "useful" on the list, let me tell you what it is: I am fearful that people who come to this board for advice on how to care for their cars will see some of your comments and will run out and do exactly what you say because you "have 30 years of experience". I am questioning your advice publicly because I don't want others to be fooled, and go out and buy a bottle of Ivory to wash their cars with, or to think that if they use Collinite it will last "three months or more in severe midwestern use", when that is NOT the truth, even according to your own words on your own webpage. Is this useful to the list? I think so.

    If you do not want your advice questioned and/or criticized, you have come to the wrong place.

    I realize I may be coming on strong to others here, but I just really think that it is important to get the point across. Thus the heading for this topic...to try ONE more time, since Shoman apparently doesn't get the point.

    I am more than willing to move on, but I think people here deserve an answer to the above issues.

    Rob

    P.S. Good points ruking
    Good luck with your test.
  • Rob360Rob360 Posts: 33
    Wc3George thanks for the link.

    Any other volunteers want to take part in this test?

    Rob
  • Has anyone ever seen a time when these vitriolic attacks have ever produced anything beneficial to anyone?

    I'll add this non-offensive item. Whatever your position on Zaino products, I've found Sal to be a genuinely nice, helpful person. That's gained my business more than anything else.
  • I'm almost out of Zaino anyways... =)

    What's the test anyway? I think I missed that post. It's been a long time, and they *hmpf* expect me to WORK at work. *double hmpf* Is it just trying this Collinite stuff? Besides, I was skeptical about Zaino to begin with, and it turned out to work as advertised.

    BTW, I just ordered it while typing this message. I'm a multitasking maniac! =) Chalk up another few cents toward that C5 Vet! Thank you GM Card! =)

    I guess before I start the test give you my opinions of Zaino.

    I've been using Zaino (Z-1, Z-2, Z-5) for a while now, somewhere between 6-8 months, I'm not sure (I'm too lazy to look back in the original forum to see where I posted), and despite my initial disappointment that Z-2 was pink (Ick! Ick! Blah!), it is by far the best wax that I have ever used. I have to agree with Poca' that it seems a little oily (The lil' sister puts a lot of smudge marks on my truck), but the shine is unbeatable. I've come across an odd problem that the touch-up paint that I'm using doesn't stick to the truck anymore. Is this Zaino's fault? It definitely reduces/hides some scratches. I know where they are and I still don't notice them. I'm sure I could probably see them if I looked closely enough.

    Z-7 is great. I've never seen such a concentrated soap! It works too.

    Z-12 was a little disappointing. It rained today, and I'm used to the reaction of Rain-X. I'm going to switch back to Rain-X. I noticed it looked and smelled too much like toothpaste, maybe I'll try it, the abrasives could whiten my teeth... =)

    Z-14 is O.K. It's hard to tell after only 6-8 months. For something like this, I guess you'd have to wait 6-8 years to see the results.

    I just realized something. I ordered the "Collinite Marque d'Elegance Wax", is this the wax you guys were talking about? (I assumed because of the price) If so, what's "Collinite 476 Wax"?

    Anywho, any advice for removing Zaino from my truck? The Dawn didn't do it last time (Maybe I didn't use enough), and I'm all out of clay, I dropped it. =(

    -- Dale
  • guitarzanguitarzan OhioPosts: 832
    That darn clay slips out of the hand way too easily, no doubt.
  • Rob360Rob360 Posts: 33
    Dale (aka Stuffonarock)-

    If you are going to do the test, I think it is important to note that you need to start on clean paint, ie, you need to remove ALL wax/polish prior to applying Collinite or Zaino.

    It would obviously be unfair to compare Collinite to Zaino if you simply put Collinite on top of Zaino, since that would give the Collinite the appearance of being able to last, when in fact it could be the Zaino underneath that was doing the job.

    As you noted, Dawn may not remove all of the Zaino. The only way to make sure is to CLAY THE CAR! Yep, that means you are going to have to break down and buy some more clay!

    I had in mind a type of side by side test, on the hood for example. One side Collinite, the other Zaino. More details can be worked out prior to the actual test. Do you have enough Zaino to do the test? Also, of the Zaino products, you do not mention using Z-6. Do you? I think that it is important to use Z-6 to get the full benefits of
    Zaino.

    Rob
  • Guitarzan -
    It's nice to know it's not the fact that I'm a clutz. =)

    Rob360 -
    Actually, I don't think even the clay got off the Zaino last time I clayed!

    But I totally agree, I've got to *sniff* remove all Zaino. =(

    Forgot to mention the Z-6, yes I used it after coats of z2/z5 and to moisten the applicator just like Chris says to. =)

    I've got enough Zaino to do the side by side test. Maybe I'll take pictures, scan 'em in at work, get a geocities site, post em here, and then wait until the account gets closed. However, I'm going to need instructions on how to use this Collinite stuff correctly. Shoman? Directions? Is it just "wax on", "wax off"? =)

    -- Dale
  • pblevinepblevine Posts: 858
    Question for Chris,

    What would be the effect of going to a regular commerical car wash as Zaino has been applied?

    Also, up here in the N.E. (NY, CT, MA), they use a lot of road salt in the winter, and it gets all over my car. Given a two Z2 coated car, what's the best way to maintain the finish under these conditions. I've just been using a quick spray of water to get most of the junk (hug) off.

    By the way (IMHO), its getting harder to find this topic. Too much shifting around.
  • shomanshoman Posts: 97
    #30
    Yes, I am talking about #915, it is the Carnuba product. #476 is a non-carnuba product. I have not tried #476.

    #32
    Clay, being non-abrasive will not remove wax. Used with a liquid that will remove wax, I suppose it would work, but a wash mitt or cloth will do better. It is highly recommended to use clay to remove other contaminants in paint, of course.

    #33
    Yes, after cleaning,(and to be fair, do remove any other product), just apply and wipe off. No special treatment. I like to apply mine by bare hand, the warmth helps soften the carnuba, but it's not necessary, Collonite is plenty easy to apply by cotton pad or synthetic sponge. I find that if you take off the Collonite after each panel it comes off easier. Waiting till the entire car is done makes it a bit harder to remove. I find multiple coats are not that beneficial, but that is up to you.

    Rob,
    I have responded. If you don't like the answers, sorry, but that's all the time I care to spend on your tirade.

    Don
  • O.K. Considering that my truck is already clayed and Zainoed (About a month ago):

    Step 1: Wash truck with Z-7, rinse, dry.

    Step 2: Wash 1/2 of the hood with Dawn, rinse, dry.

    Step 3: Clay the half of the hood using concentrated dawn as solution. Wash again with Dawn. Rinse, Dry. Rub further with towel to remove any last remnants Zaino. If THAT doesn't get Zaino off, nothing will. =)

    Step 4: Test with water to make sure the clayed & dawn half does not bead (to make sure Zaino is removed). If there is no beading, proceed to step 5. If there is beading, return to step 3.

    Step 5: Apply & Remove Collinite to clayed 1/2. Apply & Remove another layer of z5 & z2 to Zaino half.

    Step 6: Test
    a) Shine
    b) Water beading (Day of)
    c) Water beading (Week later & beyond)
    d) Dust repulsion (Week later & beyond)
    e) ?

    Sound like a good test plan? Comments? Questions? Objections? Additions? Requests?

    -- Dale
  • mrimri Posts: 7
    Why apply another coat of Z5 and Z2?
    Seems to give an advantage to Zaino side.
    Maybe strip down the entire hood with clay
    and Dawn, then redo Zaino half from scratch
    and Collonite the other half?
  • mri-

    However, Zaino is supposed to get better with each coat. It's supposed to be best at 3+ layers, and I've only got one on it now. Since Collonite doesn't improve with multiple layers, I figured one layer is enough.

    However, point well taken. What do other people think? Start with Zaino from scratch or not?

    -- Dale
  • msellowmsellow Posts: 11
    ... about the test not being fair, I'd suggest starting Zaino from scratch. I know that means some more work for you, but I guess our Collonite salesman would be comfortable with nothing less.

    Hey, you could even redo the infamous "bottle test."

    Marlon

    ps. From a chemistry standpoint, if the active ingredient Collonite is carnuba, how can it perform "better" than other carnuba-based products? If it's those "other" ingredients that makes Collonite "better," wouldn't a wax/polish based on those "other" ingredients outperform Collonite? For those new to this discussion, Zaino is NOT carnuba-based.

    FYI: I do not know what Zaino's active ingredient is.
  • As a confirmed slackjaw, how about this for the test...

    One round of Zaino vs. one round of Collonite. (realizing that Zaino gets better with additional coats). The reason? I'd like to know if the reduced time required by Collonite yields a superior wax job.

    After the one vs. one, then you could see if additional coats of Zaino make it superior to Collonite.

    All of this is easy for me to say: I'm not involved in the test! Thanks for your effort.
  • I think a side by side test by people other than shoman (or myself) will turn up some interesting and also consistently different results compared to his. It is also important for Zaino users participating in the test to make sure that all Zaino is removed before starting the test. Likewise, if you are currently using any other product, make sure you remnove any trace of it before applying Zaino for maximum results. To be fair, there's no sense in giving either product a free ride, right?

    First of all, blue Clay Magic (The red contains abrasives), although non-abrasive does remove wax very efficiently. Give Clay Magic a call and ask them whether or not Clay Magic will remove any and all wax from the paint. This isn't an opinion.

    On the other hand I have clayed cars with three coats of Zaino and had to do two good scrubbing sessions to remove the polish. This was with a Dawn wash, a very thorough clay scrub, a Dawn wash (which is when I realized the water still beaded quite well), then another clay scrub. I still had spots that beaded water and had to hit them again lightly with the clay but not enough to require a third scrub. Just spots that I didn't evenly clay scrub I'm sure.

    As mentioned above, test the presence of Zaino by spraying with water. If it beads you still have Zaino. The same goes for wax but I have never seen wax survive a single thorough clay scrub and still bead water. Don't take my word for it, try it for yourself.

    Also, based on my experiences with Zaino and other waxes, I say that it is also a great idea to first compare a single coat of Zaino to a single application of whatever you are comparing it to. I haven't found a wax that would out last Zaino polish, even with a single coat of Zaino applied. It is true that multiple coats of Zaino polish, unlike most other products, will increase gloss and length of protection but it isn't a requirement to outlast the durability of a carnauba based product compared coat for coat, in my experience. Time and testing will prove whether or not this applies to Collinite as well.

    It has been mentioned in this forum that "your results may vary". While it is true that different geographical locations present different levels of airborne contamination and other factors that can affect the "life expectancy" of a paint protectant (even Zaino) I can't think of a single reason why location would make a carnauba product outperform Zaino in durability. Again, don't take my word for it, try for yourself.

    And lastly, don't worry about having to remove Zaino within a certain time frame to aviod hard work. I just removed a coat from one of my cars that has been on there for six weeks and it was just as easy as wiping it off the same day as it was applied. There's no need to apply Zaino to a panel at a time. If you apply Zaino and the phone rings or you have to leave it for some reason it will come of just as easily later. In fact, it needs time to dry completely. :-)

    This should prove to be VERY interesting!! :-) Just one question... Do you plan to wash each side with the recommended product as well? Just curious. This would be required to make the test fair wouldn't it? I know that a dish soap is much more detrimental to wax than it is to Zaino. On the other hand, the protection enhancing properties that Zaino claims with Z7 might also give the Collinite a little kick. Of course shoman says that no product can wash & wax at the same time but this being said and being proven are two completely different things. I'm not attacking shoman on his claims here. To be fair it has to be eliminated as a variable just in case, right?

    My point is this... I claim that when a paint surface is prepared correctly and Zaino is applied properly and maintained as Zaino Bros recommends it will outperform a wax based product in durability and looks with wax being applied and maintained in the manner being recommended in this forum by shoman and in his tips on his website. To make it a fair comparison the possible variable of whether or not this could affect the outcome the recommendations would have to be separated and somewhat controlled, right?

    I personally believe that even if you wash both sections with Ivory the Zaino side will outlast the wax side considerably but it doesn't give you the full scope of what my recommendations are alledged (by me) to provide over shoman's recommendations. Either way, this is gonna be interesting!!

    With that said, let the testing begin!! :-)

    Chris Parrish
    [email protected]
  • Rob360Rob360 Posts: 33
    Lots of good comments about the test! Glad to see there is some
    enthusiasm for it.

    Shoman- your opinions continue to astound me! Now you say that Clay will not remove wax? Aye Carumba! So you really think a clay bar can
    remove embedded contaminates from paint, but NOT remove any wax?? And you say " Used with a liquid that will remove wax, I suppose it would work". What liquid would that be? You say that Dawn or Ivory will not remove wax, so those are out, right? What do you recommend? Gasoline? Paint thinner?

    I am not at all surprised that you did not respond to my last post. You had three choices: 1)to not respond (or say that you did, even though
    you didnt) 2) admit that you were wrong and misled people here when you said Collinite would last "three months or more even in severe midwestern use" or 3) Attempt to explain your contradictions by saying something like "for my purposes one month equals three months". You chose the option that you thought would best save face, although I am sure everyone here has noted your failure to adequately explain your contradictory statements and will assess your credibility accordingly.

    One last thing. Do you or do you not sell Collinite? I think people here have a right to know the answer to this question, as it may explain your apparent bias for Collinite. Don't you agree?

    Chris-

    Excellent points. Glad to see you back on the board!

    Rob
  • gessgess Posts: 90
    At the Autofanatics site they claim the Collonite lasts for one year.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    #43
    So there is no miscommunication and the use of the buzz word; "results may vary" (dah) the test conditions should be relatively the same. It almost doesn't matter what it is. For example when I posted that Meguairs #26 didnt last past 1.5 months it was side by side with another daily driver with Zaino in front in the driveway (no over head cover.) While you can not duplicate my conditions (unless you live on my block) The point is that both where subjected to the same conditions, and not be clinton est about it. Currently the Zaino is going strong at 5 mo mark;pushing for 6 mo does not even seem an issue. Ratio wise it is now between 3.33 to 5 times better than #26. If it drifts along to 6 mo mark, the expectation is 6x better. I dont know what that means to you, but it is a lot less effort/time/money to maintain the daily driver on one side as opposed to the other.(Confessions of a non addicted personwho likes shiny cars.
  • GischpelGischpel Posts: 133
    Last weekend brought some much needed relief to this area in terms of warmer weather. I gave my truck a much needed bath and let it sit overnight to dry completely. Late Sunday I brought out the Zaino and did applied a coat of Z-2, let that dry overnight and then wiped it off the next day. I then went back and Z-6'd the whole truck to a gleaming finish. My wife timed me for all three "phases" (I had been telling her about the concerns people we having about the time Zaino takes so she volunteered to record my progress) -- 37 minutes total elapsed time working on the vehicle. That is just too sweet for a truck that is just as shiny as a new penny. (And it has been about four months since I applied my first coats of Zaino.)

    Later on Monday afternoon, I dropped my truck off to have a bedcover installed and the guy's jaw just dropped when I pulled into the garage. He must have asked me fifty questions about the shine, using Zaino, etc. Needless to say, I think he was impressed. Maybe it had something to do with his tricked-out Tacoma looking dull and dreary sitting next to mine. Quite a good felling for me.

    Anyhow, I'm looking forward to hearing more about the results of the side-by-side test.

    Terry
  • GischpelGischpel Posts: 133
    Is anybody else having problems getting to this conference directly. I have to go to Smart Shopper and then to topic 970 and then scroll down and use the link in the last post to get here. It is really getting old doing that...

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks,

    Terry
  • guitarzanguitarzan OhioPosts: 832
    Try hitting "topic list" at the top right of this page, put a check mark by this topic, and hit update placemarks at the bottom.
  • So, 1 coat it is! Now, all we need to do is just wait for the Collinite. Ordered it Wed. night. Does anyone know how long it will take for it to get here? (Southern California)

    O.K. Now for washings. I figure in about a week there should be a good layer of dust on it (It is black). I'll wash it then with the "recommended" soap. Then in two weeks, try it again. I'd imagine that it is going to be a pain in the #[email protected] to keep Ivory on one side and z-7 on the other. Oh well. =)

    Shoman - Does it have to be Ivory? Can I use Dawn?

    Chris - Psst. pblevine asked you a question (#34) and you didn't answer it! You're slipping! Heh heh heh. =)

    Rob360 - Did you order Collinite or am I the guinea pig?

    -- Dale
  • diodio Posts: 2
    I will admit that when I clayed my Zaino'ed Mark VII, I was discouraged to see that the water was still beading (I wanted to start from scratch, as I didn't know about claying the first time I used Zaino), and when I stepped back and looked at the car, it still looked very mirror shiny like. I did not really want to clay again, so I ended up just Zaino'ing over what ever I might have removed. I guess this is a good comment on the apparent durability of Zaino, however, it would be cool if there were a product (in Zaino's case, it might need to be another Zaino product) that was designed to strip off whatever Zaino you have on the car. This would enable me and others to, in essence, start from scratch when so desired - I could see doing it at least once a year.

    While I am not really interested in actively participating in the Zaino vs. Collinite test, I will be curious to see what people think.

    Tom
  • shomanshoman Posts: 97
    #39
    Carnuba based products can vary in quality from product/manufacture just like non-carnuba based products. I would accept it as a given that you would not think other polishes as good as Zaino just because one or two components are the same? Is one oil just as good as aother just because they have the same base stock? No, of course not.

    #41, Chris,
    Clay, as I stated, does NOT remove wax (even really bad wax) unless the lubricant you use with it removes wax. Used with the spray provided, Clay Magic will not take wax off, and if you use Clay Magic with Meguiars Final Inspection it won't remove wax. This isn't just my opinion, I talked with John, the owner of Erazer. (www.erazer.com) He makes clay products and knows how Clay Magic and all the others work. (Note, I plan on adding this clay product to my business. Since there is no competing Zaino product, I assume this is OK with ROB?) I asked him specifically about this and he said that the only wax non-abrasive clay will remove, is any wax that might be on top of things like bugs, tree sap or other artifacts on TOP of the paint. I am sure that if you use clay with Z-6 it won't take any of the Zaino off, or any other brand of quality wax.
    BTW, Sal is the one that introduced me to John at Erazer, so I guess he feels that John knows about clay.

    #42, Rob,
    You are just going to have to accept that clay won't remove wax, the experts support this, not just lil' ole me! :)
    I guess, your eyesight is just too weak to absorb that I have always said I have a commerical business, that was my first introduction to the list! I have also said more than once recently that I plan on selling Collinite, and in fact now have it in stock.
    Many people have written me privately from this list asking about purchase/price etc, and I always tell them about my commercial business, and give them other options other than buying from me. You have mentioned my products and business more lately than I have, I thank you for the promotion, but that's not why I am here. I guess now you will have to re-post every day asking if I answered your question about if I sell Collonite. So if I start ignoring your repeated questions, its because I already answered it, same as the others.
    Here is a neat fact:...I am now a Zaino customer that has never said one bad thing about the product, but you still seem to think it's productive to continue your hate campaign. You must be fun to be around!

    RE: washing cars. I make no claims about any "wash" product other than Liquid Ivory, I have no idea how it is different, if at all, from Dawn. As far as I am concerned, it makes no difference what anyone uses to "test" any wax product.

    NOTE: Nowhere in any of my lists or my web site do I ever say any carnuba based product will outlast Zaino. I fully expect Zaino (one coat or more) to last at least as long, and would not be surprised if Zaino lasts longer, maybe MUCH longer. My comments were ONLY about percieved shine and the feel, and any comments about the durability of Collinite were comparing it to other products I have previously tried (not Zaino). Just making sure the facts are known.

    #43
    I have no idea who or what autofanatics are, but I believe they are talking about Collinite #SS126. The Collinite literature says it is a "detergent proof formulation" that "lasts full year" (sic).
    I have used this product and offer it as an alternative to those that don't want or believe in carnuba products. I personally do not back up the claim of one full year for this product, it might be VERY durable, but I stick to my thoughts that no product out there can last a full year of outside wear/tear without some renewal or maintenance. Sal himself makes no full year claims about his products, but I am sure used as recommended with regular maintenance treatements of Z-6 and multiple applications, that it will last decades, as would any product that was constantly re-applied. The difference claimed for Zaino is no-visible build-up, and it appears that this may be true.

    #44,
    My own tests of #26 show it to be a pretty poor product. No comparison to Collinite on my cars. Same thing for One Grand, I had very poor results with that.

    #48,
    Use whatever you want to wash the car with. I would recommend you do both sides with whatever "stripper" you want, concentrated dish soap of any brand. Then, if you want, go ahead and do the Zaino side with their wash before applying Z1.

    #49,
    No surprise you still have shine after using clay, since as we know from the experts (not just me) that clay does not do any harm to wax/polish. UNLESS you use a product as a lubricant that strips the product, which it will do more effectively if you use a regular wash mitt.
    That is a good point, if you want to strip wax, don't use clay, use your regular wash mitt/cloth.
    You also don't need to clay more than once a detail session. Clay will either work or it won't. Repeated sessions during the same detail are really just wasted time.
    If Zaino works as advertised, you really should never need to strip it. Since Zaino is optically transparent and doesn't cloud as it is built up (according to SAL), then you should never need to strip it off. Only if some problems develop or you need to do paint work should you need to "start over".

    Don
This discussion has been closed.