Do automakers design their cars/computer controls/etc. to optimize results from the test? Sure, that's their right, the government sets out the rules, they do what they can to maximize mpg within those rules. That's one reason for the hybrid issue - new technology, outside old test patterns, unexpected results. That now appears to be solved. But I don't think the automakers are falsifying test results. There are plenty of agressive folks within the various agencies that would love to make their name proving something like that was going on. Just bring in the New York Attorney General, for example.
And they didn't (unless you're talking about a very few instances like the Cobra and some Mazda (?). Recent hp changes again result from a modified test specification.
Do you really think the extra tax would go to the national medical plan???
Yeah, that's pretty much my thought, too. I actually would be in favor of an extra gas tax if it would truly be used for something GOOD, like improving mass transit, improving the roads, helping out with alternative energy sources, etc. But in the end I'm sure it would all get lost in the system and just end up padding the already fat wallets of some politicians, lobbyists, and whomever they're in bed with.
"I don't know who is responsible for teaching this mindset that cheap, plentiful gas is an American birthright.'
I believe this mindset began during WWII when the American GI, while in his foxhole, contemplated life when he got home after The War. The typical GI dreamed of driving his new and shiny convertible as much as possible and because gas had been rationed, we had saved the world from oppressive enemies, we then deserved to have the rewards of Victory and those rewards included an abundance of gas.
Korean Vets believe as their older brothers did so perhaps the Vets of Viet Nam feel they earned and are entitled to cheap gas as well.
add $1.00 a gallon on gas and use the extra money for a national medical plan. oh yeah that's what we need, fund the silly government to waste even more of our money - that paragon of efficiencies that they are! Sounds like you might know - where can I not send a contribution to Hilary's campaign?
Gas prices have just hit a new record high today of an average of $3.13 a gallon nationwide.
Now that I think about it, when I filled up my truck yesterday, I remember mid-grade was $3.219 per gallon. Back over the summer last year, I think about the most I ever paid at that same station was $3.249. So it's getting up there!
And up until now, I think last summer was about as bad as it ever got, notwithstanding that quick spike we had during the Katrina scare.
That is what I am saying about the EPA estimates. I have always gotten close to the EPA average until I bought this hybrid. Instead of making a proper test for hybrids they have calculated how far off they are from reality and used that formula for all cars back to 1985. The fallacy of the hybrid mileage has thrown the whole system off kilter. I want to know if Honda and Toyota have to pay fines for all those cars that used to be 27 MPG and are now 24 MPG. That could be a way to get a couple billion of the windfall profit from Toyota.
The #s used for CAFE are related, but separate, from these, and I don't think this recent change is altering the CAFE #s. On the other hand, Bush is pushing increasing CAFE to 35mpg, so buy your Hemis now!
LOL, OK, maybe a “National” health plan is not the best, no government agency is suitable. The dollars earned in each state would go that state, etc, etc. the list of possibilities goes on.
I’m a Viet Nam vet and do I think there should be lots of cheap plentiful gas? It would be nice. There are lots of big players pulling the energy strings and they are not pricing based on supply and demand, but on what the market will bear. How much are you willing to give me for this gas?
As others have pointed out, gasoline in the grand scheme of things has not increased as much as other cost, one of those being medical care. If the price of something goes up most of us can work around it or get by with out. The list of options narrows greatly for medical care, with or without insurance. So, that is my explanation for throwing the extra $ a gallon to a medical plan.
What, you have a problem with the New Gov't Medical Czar going to the Bahamas for 4 or 5 conferences each quarter? Shame on you! After all, it's hard work figuring out how to fund the poor doctors who are choking on the pittance from the men and lean health care providers who fight all those inflated fees!
I can see it now! Pony up that extra gas tax, PRONTO!
Agree completely! Like gas/energy, medical care in this country would be better off if most would concentrate on wellness strategies where you can at least keep serious health problems at bay. Just like one can use a slothful SUV and order up those "Super Size Me" McBurgers & Fries, the choice could be a Honda Civic Hybrid and a "Veggie Burger, NO Bun, Please".
I got rid of my Pilot and its 18MPG mixed, and went with a Merc Hybrid. Couldn't be happier to get 31.4 MPG mixed and pay less for a car. I also work from home 2-3 days a week if not more when allowed.
I guess we just have to agree to disagree. You say:
Hurrah for the EPA finally bowing to pressure and taking the correct step !!
I say: Boo Hiss they are ripping us off again. At least I am in good company. AAA does not trust the EPA either. I firmly believe they do their tests with computer simulations and never have a vehicle in the lab. And I trust the automakers even less to tell the truth.
HP ratings misunderstanding?
Hardest-hit Toyota model is its 2006 Camry (shown) with the 3.3-liter V6 option, which sees its horsepower rating drop from 210 to 190 hp.
Previous rating procedures were vague in many areas, allowing automakers a great deal of latitude in testing methodologies-- which type of fuel and oil were used, which components and accessories were running during testing, etc. In tightening the rating procedures, the SAE has adopted methods commonly used by U.S. manufacturers. As a consequence, vehicles produced by the Big Three remain largely unaffected by the change.
Exactly right regarding hp. If the rules are poorly stated, I don't blame a co. for how they interpret it. Just like the IRS - we're free to do what is legal within the rules, not just what is 'nice'.
gary says, "Boo Hiss they are ripping us off again."
1. First, when and how did the EPA ever "rip us off?" Why and how can a flawed rating system equate to "ripping anyone off?"
gary says, "AAA does not trust the EPA either."
1. Reality check: It's not an issue of TRUST at all between the AAA and the EPA. No one except you has EVER SAID that they think the EPA is not even doing car tests !!! That's an accusation which is completely uncommentable on a public and polite forum !!
All the AAA did is point out what people in the know already knew - the old EPA test was not well-matched to modern 2007 driving styles and the demographic of most urban 2007 drivers.
Now the new test IS more relevant to today's drivers, and the ACTUAL CAR TESTS will be FAR more accurate.
I happen to think the EPA served its purpose in setting emissions regulations. When they expanded their bureaucracy to cover mileage tests they went past their original purpose. If any group should test for mileage it would be CAFE. Why have duplication of agencies? Haven't we seen how well that works in the CIA, SS, NSA & FBI?
I don't consider it a conspiracy just shoddy management of OUR tax dollars. The 55 MPH speed limit was ended 20 years ago. Did the EPA just now find out their tests were flawed? I am sorry I just do not give our government credit for doing much of anything right. This just happens to be a screwed up system that misleads buyers when buying vehicles. If it was left to the automakers to post mileage the buyer would have some recourse. With the automakers in cahoots with the EPA they are protected.
The EPA did not do a new set of tests they came up with a formula to downgrade the mileage. They did not apply that to CAFE so the automakers are safe until the new laws go into affect.
Why are Guide values adjusted? Guide and label values are provided as information that can help consumers choose a new vehicle. In making this choice. most consumers want an idea of the actual fuel economy performance a vehicle is likely to achieve. The controlled laboratory conditions under which EPA performs fuel economy tests has been found to be somewhat different than average real-world conditions, and result in fuel economy values that are considerably higher than the average consumer could expect to achieve on the road. EPA has conducted studies of the discrepancy between fuel economy performance in the lab and on the road, and has developed correction factors to account for the discrepancy. To achieve Guide values, EPA multiplies unadjusted city test results by 0.90 and unadjusted highway results by 0.78.
Why isn't CAFE also adjusted? Congress enacted the CAFE program to encourage the production of fuel- efficient vehicles, and CAFE standards are generated using a fixed method that is set by statute. Any attempt to adjust CAFE values to better reflect in- use performance would affect the stringency of the law as intended by Congress. The same idea holds for the Gas Guzzler Tax determinations. These are determined using the unadjusted combined city/highway value.
There are lots of big players pulling the energy strings and they are not pricing based on supply and demand, but on what the market will bear. How much are you willing to give me for this gas?
we agree, except i think there are fewer "big players" that are getting bigger.
The list of options narrows greatly for medical care, with or without insurance. So, that is my explanation for throwing the extra $ a gallon to a medical plan
a good point w.r.t. medical insurance coverage. i'm concerned though that taxing everyone so that more companies can outsource and offshore and contribute less to these plans, so that others grow richer is rewarding more greed.
and i also think we aren't going to be paying down our debt when we are offshoring and consuming like we are. something's got to change. not sure what.
one thing is for sure, there's a bumpy ride ahead.
i'm not trying to single you out. there are some things that i think are common knowledge, but i guess are not, so i am pointing them out. even back in 1991, the computer was used to circumvent the test.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
One of the editors commented on this in their column in Autoweek a while back, and described the exact ways the new EPA testing methodology is different from the old. What you have quoted is only part of the story. Apparently they are also factoring in the results of other tests that are routinely done by automakers but were never reported to the public before. One is that automakers must certify the emissions of each powertrain with the A/C running, as a separate result, and that test includes measured gas mileage, so that will be factored into the EPA number for 2008 on. There is another one too, which I can't recall at the moment. The multiplicative factors you mentioned are being applied to account for people accelerating faster and maintaining higher speeds these days than they did in 1985.
I am intrigued to see some people trading in their gas guzzlers for vehicles with better fuel economy, that still meet their needs. Let the downsizing continue...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Are you serious? One of the many benefits of plug-in cars is that they will primarily be charged at night when there is plenty of excess grid capacity. maybe, maybe not. In many scenarios, electric commuter cars would have to be plugged in during the daytime while parked at the workplace, due to the relatively short range of electrics. Not arguing the point, as every bit helps. As gas costs rise, alternatives will seem more cost effective. One thing that won't change is the fact that electrics aren't the answer for most people until some better batteries come along.
Well, sure it will be five bucks someday - that's inevitable. I want to see what happens when the price gets more in-line with what is occurring in Europe right now though...
As the chapters close on the Bush Presidency I think one of lines that he will be remembered for is the remark "America is addicted to oil" - and this is from a president that worked in the oil business!
Americans have had a cheap ride for far too long in comparison globally and it's time for a change.
Interesting viewpoint from the veterans there previously but let me give you another stance. My Dad was shot at, dive-bombed on, and then we he finally got shore leave, he was chased through the streets somewhere in Italy by bandits with knives during WW II (not everyone was overjoyed to see an American soldier on their turf). When he got back home he was enamored with the smaller European cars and even (gasp) the Volkswagen Beetle! He always had a Ford or Chevy in the fleet, but when he commuted he was delighted with the Beetle's mileage. He always took a good ribbing for it. He has long since passed on but one of his surviving cohorts (a Marine) can be seen driving around in a Prius now!
What would be the difference? It looks like cheating on the emissions was a very costly mistake on the part of Cadillac. If you read the fine print in the methods of testing for mileage it gives the automaker a lot of leeway. They are required to test a pre production model. It only has to be the basic running gear. If they use the same platform for several vehicles they only need to test one. That leaves a lot of room for error. I think the EPA would have to prove malicious intent by the automakers. Which they did with Cadillac.
1. Cheating on emissions does not "cheat" the car buyer. Does not cost the car buyer a penny and if current car sales are an indication, about 97% of car buyers could give a diddly squat about how much their car pollutes.
2. Cheating on MPG "cheats" the car buyer by making them think the are going to get a financial benefit from the higher MPG when that is not true. Money out of my pocket.
Proof that it made no difference: No one stopped buying Cadillac cars when this news came out or more importantly, no one started SUING CADILLAC for it.
You can bet your last casino token that if any car maker EVER was shown to have willingly and knowingly cheated on the EPA mileage test, the lawsuits would be coming out of the woodwork.
Why not $10 or, heck, even $20 a gallon. That way only the uberwealthy can afford to drive. That will prove a point. That will show us Americans what it's like to be like a peasant in Guatamala. We have it too good. It is high time that we Americans had it rough. The US economy coming to a crashing halt and throwing the worldwide economy into a depression will be a good thing.
I always find it amusing that there are always hand-wringing people that are unhappy because they think they have it too good. What, exactly, are YOU doing? Well? If you feel that you have too much money, have you tried that adopt-a-child program you see ads for on TV? How about adopting 50 or 100 to make yourself feel better? If you want to make yourself feel better about not being taxed enough, don't itemize. Send the feds extra every April 15th. They won't mind. Think you don't pay enough for gas, slip the dude behind the counter an extra $20 every time you fill up. He could probably use the extra $ because he can't afford to drive to work because gas is too expensive.
Well there is your proof. I believe there are several class action lawsuits against Toyota for the mileage ratings on the Hybrids. It was the Prius complaints that got the EPA off their duff to do something about the phony ratings.
I just do not believe it is the place of the government to be making these mileage claims. Let that manufacturers do it and accept the responsibility when they lie and cheat.
My favorite TV interview at the gas pumps: "Gas is so high I had to sell my BMW!" People will need to make changes away from irrationtional car choices (SUVs etc). It's just too bad we had years of unrealistically low prices combined with (perhaps resulting in) years of great economic growth allowing people to buy those low mileage vehicles as a fashion statement. Now we have this huge fleet of low mileage vehicles that will take years to eliminate. However, don't count on $5 soon, every time prices trend up (or down) the extrapolated extremes don't stay around for long. I'd be surprised if we had long periods above $4/gal within the next 2-3 years.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Gasoline prices soared to levels never seen before as even the inflation-adjusted price for a gallon of unleaded topped the 1981 record spike in price that had stood for 26 years.
And higher prices could be on the way as Americans get ready to hit the road for the Memorial Day holiday and the start of the summer driving season. The Lundberg Survey, a bi-weekly gas price tracking service, put the price of a gallon of unleaded at $3.18 in its latest reading released late Sunday, up more than 11 cents from its reading of two weeks ago.
While gasoline had already been in record territory in current dollars, Trilby Lundberg, publisher of the survey, said this is the first time that her survey topped her 1981 record high when adjusted for inflation. The price of $1.35 in 1981 works out to $3.15 in current dollars, she said. The Iran-Iraq war, which started the year before, choked off oil supplies to the global market, causing that spike in prices.
The motorist group AAA does a daily survey of up to 85,000 gas stations, but that reading does not go back to the 1981 spike. It's survey has been showing a series of record high prices in current dollars since May 13, and Monday the average price for a gallon of self-serve unleaded hit $3.196, the ninth straight record high and up from Sunday's record of $3.178.
Even if we don't hit $4, this is the worst ever. Go buy thyself a Hybrid !!!
I would sure like to see some evidence that the EPA did in fact test cars that have very high ratings by the manufacturers. So far I get nothing from the EPA. You are so caught up the hybrid technology that you do not see that this is fraud against the consumer. Mileage ratings should reflect what the average driver without special hyper mileage training will get. High mileage ratings are used to sell cars. When they do not perform as implied the consumer feels cheated. Not the average poster on Edmund's that understands that the tests are flawed. You cannot take the average on GH as absolute gospel either. The folks that post there are a bit fanatical about the technology. And I do not say that in a negative way. People that are happy with their cars is a good thing.
Comments
Car makers may (and probably do) lie about SOME things.
But they make their money MOSTLY based on having a GOOD REPUTATION with the car-buying public.
Getting caught in such an important lie as this, with gas prices doing what they do, is not something any automaker would EVER take a chance on doing.
The fact that it has never come out that an automaker has fudged an EPA test means it has never happened.
All it takes is ONE TIME for an automaker to get caught fudging results on an EPA test and they would NEVER EVER recover from that.
Lying about EPA results - it would NEVER EVER in a MILLION YEARS HAPPEN.
Regards,
OW
Yeah, that's pretty much my thought, too. I actually would be in favor of an extra gas tax if it would truly be used for something GOOD, like improving mass transit, improving the roads, helping out with alternative energy sources, etc. But in the end I'm sure it would all get lost in the system and just end up padding the already fat wallets of some politicians, lobbyists, and whomever they're in bed with.
I believe this mindset began during WWII when the American GI, while in his foxhole, contemplated life when he got home after The War. The typical GI dreamed of driving his new and shiny convertible as much as possible and because gas had been rationed, we had saved the world from oppressive enemies, we then deserved to have the rewards of Victory and those rewards included an abundance of gas.
Korean Vets believe as their older brothers did so perhaps the Vets of Viet Nam feel they earned and are entitled to cheap gas as well.
As a Veteran, I understand their thinking.
oh yeah that's what we need, fund the silly government to waste even more of our money - that paragon of efficiencies that they are! Sounds like you might know - where can I not send a contribution to Hilary's campaign?
Now that I think about it, when I filled up my truck yesterday, I remember mid-grade was $3.219 per gallon. Back over the summer last year, I think about the most I ever paid at that same station was $3.249. So it's getting up there!
And up until now, I think last summer was about as bad as it ever got, notwithstanding that quick spike we had during the Katrina scare.
2.
(ok, I got 18.08 lifetime mpg instead of 19 combined on my '89 Voyager).
AAA did a review of cars a couple of years ago and MOST cars failed to meet EPA.
See this page:
link title
Remember - the EPA tests have always been an ESTIMATE of what the car can do.
People have always gotten more and less than EPA MPG on EVERY car, based on their situation and driving style.
The EPA tests needed a revamp for a LONG TIME and FINALLY they did it !!
Hurrah for the EPA finally bowing to pressure and taking the correct step !!
The dollars earned in each state would go that state, etc, etc. the list of possibilities goes on.
I’m a Viet Nam vet and do I think there should be lots of cheap plentiful gas? It would be nice. There are lots of big players pulling the energy strings and they are not pricing based on supply and demand, but on what the market will bear. How much are you willing to give me for this gas?
As others have pointed out, gasoline in the grand scheme of things has not increased as much as other cost, one of those being medical care. If the price of something goes up most of us can work around it or get by with out. The list of options narrows greatly for medical care, with or without insurance. So, that is my explanation for throwing the extra $ a gallon to a medical plan.
Enough rant on my part.
I can see it now! Pony up that extra gas tax, PRONTO!
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
Hurrah for the EPA finally bowing to pressure and taking the correct step !!
I say: Boo Hiss they are ripping us off again. At least I am in good company. AAA does not trust the EPA either. I firmly believe they do their tests with computer simulations and never have a vehicle in the lab. And I trust the automakers even less to tell the truth.
HP ratings misunderstanding?
Hardest-hit Toyota model is its 2006 Camry (shown) with the 3.3-liter V6 option, which sees its horsepower rating drop from 210 to 190 hp.
Previous rating procedures were vague in many areas, allowing automakers a great deal of latitude in testing methodologies-- which type of fuel and oil were used, which components and accessories were running during testing, etc. In tightening the rating procedures, the SAE has adopted methods commonly used by U.S. manufacturers. As a consequence, vehicles produced by the Big Three remain largely unaffected by the change.
gary says, "Boo Hiss they are ripping us off again."
1. First, when and how did the EPA ever "rip us off?" Why and how can a flawed rating system equate to "ripping anyone off?"
gary says, "AAA does not trust the EPA either."
1. Reality check: It's not an issue of TRUST at all between the AAA and the EPA. No one except you has EVER SAID that they think the EPA is not even doing car tests !!! That's an accusation which is completely uncommentable on a public and polite forum !!
All the AAA did is point out what people in the know already knew - the old EPA test was not well-matched to modern 2007 driving styles and the demographic of most urban 2007 drivers.
Now the new test IS more relevant to today's drivers, and the ACTUAL CAR TESTS will be FAR more accurate.
"Ripping us off" my tailpipe..............
The OLD EPA test had the car going 55 mph for highway because that is what the national speed limit was when the test was designed.
AC wasn't used because well AC was still optional on a lot of cars back then.
The acceleration rate was rather slow but then many cars took 10 plus seconds to get to 60 mph back then.
Remember, "Everything You Thought You Knew About ______ Is Wrong." That's one reason why we have these little conversations.
I don't consider it a conspiracy just shoddy management of OUR tax dollars. The 55 MPH speed limit was ended 20 years ago. Did the EPA just now find out their tests were flawed? I am sorry I just do not give our government credit for doing much of anything right. This just happens to be a screwed up system that misleads buyers when buying vehicles. If it was left to the automakers to post mileage the buyer would have some recourse. With the automakers in cahoots with the EPA they are protected.
Why are Guide values adjusted?
Guide and label values are provided as information that can help consumers choose a new vehicle. In making this choice. most consumers want an idea of the actual fuel economy performance a vehicle is likely to achieve. The controlled laboratory conditions under which EPA performs fuel economy tests has been found to be somewhat different than average real-world conditions, and result in fuel economy values that are considerably higher than the average consumer could expect to achieve on the road. EPA has conducted studies of the discrepancy between fuel economy performance in the lab and on the road, and has developed correction factors to account for the discrepancy. To achieve Guide values, EPA multiplies unadjusted city test results by 0.90 and unadjusted highway results by 0.78.
Why isn't CAFE also adjusted?
Congress enacted the CAFE program to encourage the production of fuel- efficient vehicles, and CAFE standards are generated using a fixed method that is set by statute. Any attempt to adjust CAFE values to better reflect in- use performance would affect the stringency of the law as intended by Congress. The same idea holds for the Gas Guzzler Tax determinations. These are determined using the unadjusted combined city/highway value.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/gasmgdc.pdf
we agree, except i think there are fewer "big players" that are getting bigger.
The list of options narrows greatly for medical care, with or without insurance. So, that is my explanation for throwing the extra $ a gallon to a medical plan
a good point w.r.t. medical insurance coverage. i'm concerned though that taxing everyone so that more companies can outsource and offshore and contribute less to these plans, so that others grow richer is rewarding more greed.
and i also think we aren't going to be paying down our debt when we are offshoring and consuming like we are. something's got to change. not sure what.
one thing is for sure, there's a bumpy ride ahead.
cheating the epa
i'm not trying to single you out. there are some things that i think are common knowledge, but i guess are not, so i am pointing them out. even back in 1991, the computer was used to circumvent the test.
I am intrigued to see some people trading in their gas guzzlers for vehicles with better fuel economy, that still meet their needs. Let the downsizing continue...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I think this is big trouble for the Big Three
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2007-05-10-honda-fuel-cell_N.htm?csp=34
Mrshiftright
Visiting Host
maybe, maybe not. In many scenarios, electric commuter cars would have to be plugged in during the daytime while parked at the workplace, due to the relatively short range of electrics. Not arguing the point, as every bit helps. As gas costs rise, alternatives will seem more cost effective. One thing that won't change is the fact that electrics aren't the answer for most people until some better batteries come along.
As the chapters close on the Bush Presidency I think one of lines that he will be remembered for is the remark "America is addicted to oil" - and this is from a president that worked in the oil business!
Americans have had a cheap ride for far too long in comparison globally and it's time for a change.
Interesting viewpoint from the veterans there previously but let me give you another stance. My Dad was shot at, dive-bombed on, and then we he finally got shore leave, he was chased through the streets somewhere in Italy by bandits with knives during WW II (not everyone was overjoyed to see an American soldier on their turf). When he got back home he was enamored with the smaller European cars and even (gasp) the Volkswagen Beetle! He always had a Ford or Chevy in the fleet, but when he commuted he was delighted with the Beetle's mileage. He always took a good ribbing for it. He has long since passed on but one of his surviving cohorts (a Marine) can be seen driving around in a Prius now!
Everybody can change.
That had to do with an automaker cheating the emissions tests, not the mileage tests.
None would ever do that - it's too risky.
1. Cheating on emissions does not "cheat" the car buyer. Does not cost the car buyer a penny and if current car sales are an indication, about 97% of car buyers could give a diddly squat about how much their car pollutes.
2. Cheating on MPG "cheats" the car buyer by making them think the are going to get a financial benefit from the higher MPG when that is not true. Money out of my pocket.
Proof that it made no difference: No one stopped buying Cadillac cars when this news came out or more importantly, no one started SUING CADILLAC for it.
You can bet your last casino token that if any car maker EVER was shown to have willingly and knowingly cheated on the EPA mileage test, the lawsuits would be coming out of the woodwork.
THAT'S the difference.
Why not $10 or, heck, even $20 a gallon. That way only the uberwealthy can afford to drive. That will prove a point. That will show us Americans what it's like to be like a peasant in Guatamala. We have it too good. It is high time that we Americans had it rough. The US economy coming to a crashing halt and throwing the worldwide economy into a depression will be a good thing.
I always find it amusing that there are always hand-wringing people that are unhappy because they think they have it too good. What, exactly, are YOU doing? Well? If you feel that you have too much money, have you tried that adopt-a-child program you see ads for on TV? How about adopting 50 or 100 to make yourself feel better? If you want to make yourself feel better about not being taxed enough, don't itemize. Send the feds extra every April 15th. They won't mind. Think you don't pay enough for gas, slip the dude behind the counter an extra $20 every time you fill up. He could probably use the extra $ because he can't afford to drive to work because gas is too expensive.
Just don't force your choices onto everyone else.
I just do not believe it is the place of the government to be making these mileage claims. Let that manufacturers do it and accept the responsibility when they lie and cheat.
I always find it amusing that there are always hand-wringing people that are unhappy because they think they have it too good.
I would say it is those that did not have to work hard enough for their money.
Anyone with half a lick of sense knows that the Prius, in a lab, executing the old EPA test, will get 60 city and 51 hwy every time.
That's just lawyers who talked someone into attempting something stupid.
May 21 2007: 8:31 AM EDT
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Gasoline prices soared to levels never seen before as even the inflation-adjusted price for a gallon of unleaded topped the 1981 record spike in price that had stood for 26 years.
And higher prices could be on the way as Americans get ready to hit the road for the Memorial Day holiday and the start of the summer driving season.
The Lundberg Survey, a bi-weekly gas price tracking service, put the price of a gallon of unleaded at $3.18 in its latest reading released late Sunday, up more than 11 cents from its reading of two weeks ago.
While gasoline had already been in record territory in current dollars, Trilby Lundberg, publisher of the survey, said this is the first time that her survey topped her 1981 record high when adjusted for inflation. The price of $1.35 in 1981 works out to $3.15 in current dollars, she said. The Iran-Iraq war, which started the year before, choked off oil supplies to the global market, causing that spike in prices.
The motorist group AAA does a daily survey of up to 85,000 gas stations, but that reading does not go back to the 1981 spike. It's survey has been showing a series of record high prices in current dollars since May 13, and Monday the average price for a gallon of self-serve unleaded hit $3.196, the ninth straight record high and up from Sunday's record of $3.178.
Even if we don't hit $4, this is the worst ever. Go buy thyself a Hybrid !!!