Are gas prices fueling your pain?

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Comments

  • accordanceaccordance Member Posts: 6
    Your killing me! We just bid on a house, at $570k week in NorCal...doh. At $175k, we'd almost have that home paid in cash, and would be ready for $100/gal peak oil commuting frenzy. Fortunately the home location will eliminate one of our commutes (going to 6mi by bike paths :) and cut the other commute from 80 to 40mi/day. Back a few years, we were commuting 125mi/day for me, 65mi/day her, with about $4500/year in gas alone at prices in the $2.50gal range. With todays gas price, renting close to work as I did near the end of the insanity period would have made even more sense. :shades:
  • rochcomrochcom Member Posts: 247
    As of today, gas prices here are already over $4 per gallon. I am trying to find jobs online so that I do not have to commute. That will save not only gas, but wasted travel time.
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Member Posts: 833
    are you denying that Oil is subsidized in the US?
    what is it you are contesting?
    do you not believe that Big oil has a powerful lobby shaping tax laws & foreign policy in the US Government?

    http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/03/27/business/oil.php

    I'm not even counting the cost of having a military presence in the middle east.

    $4.00 a gallon is just scratching the surface of the real cost for a gallon of gas.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I am not sure how you are relating reduced royalties to being subsidies. They have not given them 51 cents a gallon producing gas as they have for ethanol. So yes I would deny that the oil companies get subsidies. They do get tax breaks for large investments they make in finding and producing oil. Which I would expect them to get. That is no different than McDonald's writing off the cost of the hamburger they serve.

    Johnston and other supporters argued that the incentives would actually generate money for the government by increasing production and prompting companies to bid more for new leases.

    He won support from oil-state Democrats, Republicans and the Clinton administration.

    Lawmakers say today that they never intended to waive royalties when energy prices were high. The 1995 law, according to Republicans and Democrats alike, was supposed to include an escape clause: In any year when average spot prices for oil or gas climbed above certain threshold levels, companies would pay full royalties.


    If the law was poorly written as is most laws out of our Congress, how is that an indictment of the oil companies?
  • avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    "Where is this? Two days ago I paid $4.05 for REGULAR."

    Lucky you. :D The $3.99 is the AAA national average. Your price may vary. We are at $3.59 to $3.69 here in the state with the Middle Bakken.

    Nissan Rogue gets 21/26 (AWD?), it might be too popular!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Sounds like the typical ABS self-test to me too Bill. Try the Toyota Avalon Brakes, ABS, VSC, etc. discussion for opinions from other owners.

    So -- is it really time to rename the discussion yet? Maybe - "What are you doing now that gas prices have risen above $4 a gallon?

    We could always hope that renaming this board will result in a 50% crash in prices at the pump. :D
  • avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    Maybe we should give up trying to explain the supply/demand issue. Some folks just do not get it. They are in full blown panic mode.

    "JAKARTA, May 14 (Reuters) - The Indonesian government will hold a news conference on a planned increase in fuel prices on Thursday, the information minister said on Wednesday." http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idUKJAK7975620080514

    "...China, the government recently entrenched its subsidy program - which could cost as much as $87-billion (U.S.) - in order to end its frequent bouts of embarrassing fuel shortages in time for this summer's Olympic Games."
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080514.IBCHINA14/TPStory/Busi- ness

    The globeandmail link has information on how countries are responding to the high prices. Many are hanging on by a thread. These countries will be in deep do-do soon, some are already there......

    If you consider that the average household in the U.S. is making about $50,000 a year now and the average household is paying $3,000 a year for gasoline, anyone in the bottom half will be forced to cut back their driving. The numbers are clear, these people cannot afford it.

    "The average U.S. household paid $2,277 for gasoline in 2006, up 78% from 2001, '
    Household income in 2005 = $46,326
    http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2007-05-16-gas-prices-hearing_N.- htm
  • future4ufuture4u Member Posts: 25
    Why not consider an investment of about $4,500 in your existing vehicle , be it an SUV , V-8 or light truck and enjoying 100 MPG ? It's here ! Phase #1 ( $1,000 )is already on the market , will get you double MPG and phase #2 ( $2,500 ), main component has been awaiting EPA approval since November . The other $1,000 is for
    installation labor in case you're not mechanically inclined . The value of your vehicle will increase accordingly .

    Just put a pencil to your own situation and make a decision based upon the benefits .
    Most motorists are in a " catch 22 " situation . They MUST go to work ! They couldn't sell or even trade in their gas guzzler and they can't simply sell their home and relocate closer to work .

    Our lives are being engineered by TPTB . There are solutions ! I am not allowed to
    post any websites or even my email address on here or it would be considered as solicitation . It indeed would be , but wouldn't the money best be in our pockets rather than the oil companies , auto manufacturers and Government agencies that have been ripping us off for decades ?

    Keep in mind that gasoline is now a mere byproduct from the production of plastics , chemicals , etc . Where would they store it ?? How else can they dispose of it ?
    I remember in the 1950's and 60's when we had gasoline price wars . Most people thought that that was due to competition . LMAO !! It was to utilize the motorist's gas tanks for storage that was not otherwise available . That was the era when plastics were ramping up . Now everything is made of plastic . There's even plastic in store bought ice cream to give it shelf life . The chemicals are in our medicines cleaning supplies and food . Chlorine in our drinking water .

    Now they are trying to convince us that the explosion of cancer , an epidemic , is hereditary ?? ROTFLMAO !!

    Thus far , I see you nice people reacting exactly the way TPTB expects . You can throw a monkey wrench into their plans . DO IT !!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Why not consider an investment of about $4,500 in your existing vehicle

    I have thought of that. When my engine croaks replace it with a diesel engine. Or did you mean some device that will work miracles and turn water into wine, I mean energy. I just hope they did not sucker you into spending that much money for a jar and some electrodes.

    If you really want to try it. The highest rated water 4 gas device is selling under $50 right now. It comes up on top when you google. Even then it is over priced.

    May 2008 Update: there is now a promotion running on the site, and it is temporarily available for $49 instead of $297 - as such, we recommend ordering sooner rather than later.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I will pump ten gallons as I did tonight ($4/gallon right on the nose, my first time actually paying that, although I have seen stations in the area with prices that high for a couple of weeks) and drive on down the road....there's $40 I won't get back.....

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • jpeters1970jpeters1970 Member Posts: 82
    Imagine the author's dismay when he started this thread over a year ago. Now that we're at that price point all I have to do is pay a bit more and be glad I'm not living in Europe. Still considering the Polo or Subie even with the higher diesel prices. Bring em on over already!
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Maybe we should give up trying to explain the supply/demand issue. Some folks just do not get it. They are in full blown panic mode.

    It's not simply (or perhaps "merely") an issue of supply and demand when you have governments subsidizing oil production and fuel use...that whacks out the equation because it artificially increases demand, just for one thing. And you know what? While those subsidizing countries are looking at making adjustments, not one of them is looking at ending subsidies last I checked.
  • avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    AAA is reporting the following national averages
    RUG at $3.776
    Mid at $4.010 <---- New record over $4
    Premium at $4.154
    Diesel at $4.455
    E85 at $3.296

    Calif. is catching up to NY on diesel prices
    Calif - $4.74
    NY - $4.76

    It looks like Alaska is the first state with a RUG average over $4. They are at $4.02. Way to go Alaska!

    Are we having fun yet?
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Be careful...the guy that created the 50 MPG carburetor was never heard from again!

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Just pay it and wait for $5.00/gal!

    Prediction: 25% increase from here will take 1.5 years.

    Regards,
    OW
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...I heard a story when I was a kid that the guy who owned a small Buick dealership near me invented a device that enabled him to get 65 MPG in a 1957 Roadmaster. He was visited by representatives of an oil company to purchase the device which never saw the market.

    As for me, I've been driving my new black Cadillac DTS Performance all week. Yesterday was my birthday, so I'm treating myself this week. Next week - back to my old hoopty or my Nikes.
  • avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    "It's not simply (or perhaps "merely") an issue of supply and demand when you have governments subsidizing oil production and fuel use.."

    I agree, and if you look at some of my previous posts you will see that I have been pointing that out. It all falls under the price/supply/demand umbrella.

    I also agree that none of the companies are looking at ending subsidies publicly, but they all must know that they cannot continue for much longer with these kind of prices. Any adjustment they make will reduce the demand. The problem that China, the Mid Eastern countries and others are having is that inflation is a bit of a problem. If they raise fuel prices inflation will also jump. They are between the proverbial rock and a hard place.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Yeah I have always heard those stories. Every time the date, person and circumstances change slightly which make me believe there is nothing to it.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Who knows if this is true...

    link title

    Regards,
    OW
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,054
    Yesterday was my birthday, so I'm treating myself this week.

    Happy Birthday, Lemko!

    As for those 50 mpg carburetor claims, wasn't that an old "Josie and the Pussycats" episode? :P
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Gentlemen and Ladies

    Please stop with these claims of miracle technologies and substances. It really makes it look like you slept thru high-school or Chem 101. OR you're a crook. :mad:

    There is a certain amount of energy in a gallon of gasoline. It can not be increased anymore then we can change the mass of it. We can not convert water to gasoline, we can not change lead to iron, and there is no goose laying golden eggs (though it sounds like some of you will still look). :)

    Each and every fuel has a certain amount of energy per unit of mass, that has been studied and reported in the last century. Only the Creator can change those "rules".
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    OK...just when I was having some fun!

    Let the Creator rule. Electric is our only hope.

    Regards,
    OW
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I would imagine by the time the EPA and CARB got through with that miracle Carb it would be lucky to get 15 MPG. It is a very Rube Goldberg looking device. Probably would not fit in most cars today. Great old drawings.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,135
    What am I contesting? Unsubstantiated claims, and the notion that there is something different about how oil companies are treated compared to other industries. There is no more villified, yet necessary, industry out there, and tossing around numbers that don't make sense doesn't help. There are 'subsidies' for just about every industry out there, and every industry has 'a powerful lobby shaping tax laws'. Given that is how our government works, I'd fire any company's managers that didn't make use of this process.
  • chadxchadx Member Posts: 153
    Keep in mind that was only at 1 gallon per week. I was just using 1 gallon a week to show how quickly the numbers added up. And while I agree it's a small percentage of the overall consumption, does that mean we shouldn't bother? Even if it's a small percentage, I consider 52million gallons to be a lot of gas and a lot less pollution in the air. Many people could easily cut 10 times that much out. Every little bit helps.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,054
    I will pump ten gallons as I did tonight ($4/gallon right on the nose, my first time actually paying that, although I have seen stations in the area with prices that high for a couple of weeks) and drive on down the road....there's $40 I won't get back.....

    Well, look on the bright side...at least that 40 bucks will get you what? 350-400 miles or more? I'm going to make my weekly beer run tonite, and top off my '79 5th Ave while I'm at it. My Intrepid is still at the mechanic, so I've been depending on the old Chrysler exclusively. Since topping it off a week ago, I've driven a whopping 59 miles. Last time, I put hi-test in, so this week I can mix in some 87 octane and save a buck or two. yay. :P

    I have a feeling the fuel bill is going to run close to 20 bucks, which I know sounds awful for roughly 64 miles of driving (it's about 5 1/2 miles from work to the gas station next to the liquor store). But looking at it from a time perspective, 20 bucks a week for gasoline ain't too shabby.

    Oh, and I'm walking over to the bank today on my lunch break, so that'll save about 8 miles worth of driving, compared to doing it on Saturday. Plus, I could use the exercise. :blush:
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Maybe the oil companies need to learn from the farmers?

    http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/house-approves-300-billion-farm/story.aspx- ?guid=%7BF68CB32C%2D0C85%2D46DE%2D902C%2D89037B590B6C%7D

    it sounds like farmers make some pretty decent dough. Did I see individual earnings up to $750K?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I still do not consider tax deductions as subsidies. Propping up the price of wheat, tobacco or corn to guarantee the farmers make money is a subsidy. Paying farmers not to grow certain crops on their land is a subsidy. Cutting royalties paid TO the government during the first few years of production is a tax cut.

    How does sending our troops into the Middle east subsidize the oil companies? It protects a vital supply of oil. Which keeps the price at the pump from going crazy. If we had let Saddam take over the Middle East oil as he was planning in 1990 we would probably be paying more than $200 per barrel and it would be based on the Euro not the Dollar.

    I would agree that using all tax advantages in the IRS code is wise. I try to and do not consider myself a criminal. Those avoiding paying what they owe are the criminals.

    When people start feeling taken advantage of at the pump, they should check the price of gas our brothers and sisters in Canada are paying. And they are an oil exporter. We could have it a LOT worse than 4 bucks a gallon.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,135
    "How does sending our troops into the Middle east subsidize the oil companies? It protects a vital supply of oil. Which keeps the price at the pump from going crazy. If we had let Saddam take over the Middle East oil as he was planning in 1990 we would probably be paying more than $200 per barrel and it would be based on the Euro not the Dollar. "

    Great points, Gary. What amazes me most is assigning the 'blame' for maintaining our oil supplies (that keep people driving and having jobs) to the oil companies, rather than to us, the users. It's doubly confusing that the apparent solution to this 'problem' (which only seems to have come up with high gas prices) would be to add major taxes to gas to pay for the 'protection'. My head hurts :sick:
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I wouldn't be using getting rid of Saddam as a great example of dealing with oil prices. It was $20 a barrel befor ewe went in and improved the situation...
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    With a married couple still getting subsidies with a $1,500,000 in earnings. I think if you delve deep into that bill you will not find much for the small family farmer. This is corporate welfare to the max. Most of the farmers around my farm in MN are lucky to have a poverty level earning. The ones that have not gotten bought out by the mega ag conglomerates.

    Just what bill are people referring to that gives the oil companies a subsidy that comes close to $300 billion over 5 years?
  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    Way to blow off the point. ;)

    Sure we can select parts of China where the standard of living is pretty high. Such variance occurs in any country. Your original statement was a blanket, and taken as such, the standard of living in China is nowhere near the standard of living in just about any developed country we can cite.

    China is a developing country. Their standard if living is improving. It is no surprise that their demand for goods and services is increasing. They are becoming more industrialized. No surprise they are demanding more energy. Some of the numbers get a little skewed just by the sheer size of the population (probably best to consider things on a per capita basis, but we have tendency to like big raw numbers). It is a sleeping giant that is waking up.

    That their standard of living is improving is correct. That their standard of living exceeds ours, not so much.

    Poverty is everywhere. More entrenched in some places than others.

    The only oil I think I am undeniably entitled to is Extra Virgin Olive Oil. Unfortunately it is already well above $4.00 a gallon. :P
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I was referring to his invasion of Kuwait and heading for Saudi Arabia in 1990.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,135
    "Just what bill are people referring to that gives the oil companies a subsidy that comes close to $300 billion over 5 years? "

    I don't know about that, but there is a new EIA report that lists subsidies by industry. Oil and gas in 2007? A little over $2 billion. Kind of hard to get to $300B from there:

    EIA Subsidy Report

    Of course, I don't expect a few inconvenient facts to get in the way of the 'subsidy' discussion!
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Here is a 2005 Nielsen Study regarding Asia's ownership and aspirations of ownership which I assume are taking affect as we move forward. Here is a concrete reason for current pricing for everyone to munch on for awhile!

    link title

    Regards,
    OW
  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    Of course, I don't expect a few inconvenient facts to get in the way of the 'subsidy' discussion!

    Facts are just so boring.
    Biases, prejudices, opinions, wild claims and predictions and promises, Armageddon stories, and just plain ol' venting are much more interesting. :shades:
  • chadxchadx Member Posts: 153
    Too bad China is keeping it's subsidy program. If they lifted it and gas went up, maybe the athletes would be able to breath at the Olympics. :D Of course there are those other pesky coal plants and industry stacks still keeping the skies hazy.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It would have been better if they had divided that between natural gas and petroleum products. It is entirely different companies for the most part. Yes that is miniscule compared to farm subsidies and alternative energy subsidies.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Oh, sure. If you are talking about Kuwait there's no question about it. Virtually our whole problem over there now is that W's dad did a better job than his son gave him credit for. The current war has traded the fairly toothless dictator and not replaced him with something that can be stable without us being the full time protectors - and a nice $100 per barrel surcharge as it were.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    $20 isn't even an hour's worth of work at my regular job, but close to 2 on my little part-time gig. I can see how a lot of my co-workers at my other job can be suffering. That is all they've got.

    I've been cutting back a lot at my other job as it is becoming less and less cost-effective to do so. I can go to a job and be there all night or can be done in a few hours. If the job is nearby, I don't mind. But, if I have to travel some distance and am only there two or three hours, I'm lucky to get my gas costs back. I essentially worked for free.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    It would be kind of like going to Greenwich, CT or Beverly Hills saying this is how well all Americans live. Or yo could travel to Appalachia or Chester, PA and say, this is how poorly all Amercans live. They're both extremes.
  • tpetpe Member Posts: 2,342
    I believe that Iraq oil production is on par with what it was pre-invasion. So our involvement over there, as misguided as it may be, is probably a non-factor in today's oil prices.
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Member Posts: 833
    "So yes I would deny that the oil companies get subsidies"

    Google 'big subsidies on oil" and you will see an endless stream of articles on the subject. Have they got it wrong?

    "If the law was poorly written as is most laws out of our Congress, how is that an indictment of the oil companies? "

    I guess you'd have to first acknowledge that big business in America chanels millions of dollars to Washington through the help of lobbiests. It's the big companies who literally write the laws benefitting their own good. Is it legal? maybe; is it ethical? I think not. To me, it's nothing but a form of white collar organized crime. Congress each year puts on a dog a pony show to tell Exxon and Shell they're profits are obscene and nothing really changes.

    Big oil isn't the only industry guilty of shapping policy for their own good, but as long as we're here to discuss $4.00 gas it's a likely target.

    I guess you and I can find common ground on Ethanol?
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,135
    If everything was 'right', what would a 'fair' price for gas be? Given that crude goes for $3/gallon, I fail to see how $4/gallon is too high. You gotta pay to transport, refine, transport, store, and sell the stuff, right?
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    and am only there two or three hours, I'm lucky to get my gas costs back.

    You might be losing money if you count the total cost of driving - about $0.55-$0.60/mile for the average vehicle?

    Just like independent truck-drivers, you need to adjust how you get paid. If people are willing to do the job cheaper than you, then I guess you get out of the business. When enough employees drop out of the business, the employer has to raise the wage or rate, or he himself goes out of business.

    Thinking of how far people have to go for work or to shop, I would thus say that rural people are being most affected, and urban people being affected the least.

    I'm just glad I avoided choosing to live in 1 of these areas where the house prices went too-high, and avoided working at a job 50 miles away.
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Member Posts: 833
    I'm not trying to decide what a gallon of gas should cost, but how the price is concieved.

    It should cost more in my opinion.

    If you factor in the cost to the environment, the "protection" that the military provides, and eliminate the subsidies then you see a price that reflects what it's true cost is.

    Higher gas prices will hopefully get us closer to cleaner more fuel efficient alternatives.

    I hear flowery commercials by Chevron and Shell about how they "care" and are part of the "solution", but their actions don't seem very sincere to me.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,054
    is what it took for me to walk from my office, over to to the bank, and back. Not too bad, considering if I did it on a Saturday morning before it got busy, it would probably take me about 20-25 minutes to drive up there, do my business, and drive back home. And I saved about 8 miles worth of driving. :P
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "When my engine croaks replace it with a diesel engine. "

    That won't work in a CARB state. The vehicle has to pass emissions testing for the original model and year. A diesel won't pass smog if it is just inserted into a gasoline car. It has to pass the same emissions tests as the gasoline engine that came with the vehicle from the factory. You could get by with installing a different engine that was produced, such as a larger or smaller ICE, but not simply adding diesel. (These are CA rules)
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "Be careful...the guy that created the 50 MPG carburetor was never heard from again! "

    I heard 150MPG... :surprise: :blush:
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