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Are gas prices fueling your pain?

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  • tpetpe Member Posts: 2,342
    Oil is going to crash, but of course that is just my opinion.... not a fact.

    I agree that investors, speculators, whatever you want to call them have probably created an oil price bubble. But I don't foresee much of a crash. The reason being is that if oil were to drop much below $100/barrel I believe the OPEC ministers would hold an emergency meeting to discuss production cuts. I question whether OPEC has the ability to increase production but I have little doubt that they have the ability to reduce production. In the past couple years we have redefined what the world economy will accept in terms of oil prices and OPEC has taken notice. This is the situation we are forced to live with and our only option is to transition away from oil to an energy source that we have more control over.
  • avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    In case anyone is wondering how deep they are drilling to get oil, the gulf-times just reported that they hit a record 40,320 at Al Shaheen offshore of Qatar. That is deep. When I was working on the rigs a deep hole was 18,000 feet. I wonder how long a trip out the hole takes.

    We are drilling to incredible depths all over the world. Supply has it's limits. It will be demand that will come down as prices rise.

    Arctic fantasies need reality check
    http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/business/story.html?id=bfda2108-bf06-- 4a53-9c45-20b5eb36a34a&k=63243
  • tedebeartedebear Member Posts: 832
    Its a good point. If I was 20 years younger, I would have bought a nice road bike. But, at my age, I think I need the electric help...

    Oh, I'm old enough to join AARP - don't let that stop ya. :D
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I didn't say it never happens but it is pretty rare for it to happen. Maybe one, two or sometimes three ares get it per year but it is still rare. The majority of the population these days will not see outages lasting days.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Your manager calls you in to the office and tells you that as of today you no longer have a job, are you going to finish out your workday?

    Used to happen to me all the time, but then I was a consultant/contract employee who would go in to do a project. Sometimes I would have a few days notice, sometimes I would get a few hours notice. Once or twice I was told I was no longer needed as I walked in the door in the morning.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    they hit a record 40,320 at Al Shaheen offshore of Qatar

    Wow, that is deep. I thought the old record was from Russia something like 30k feet. How much water was that well in? I think Qatar is mainly natural gas. I know they are supposed to have the largest known reserve of NG. Alaska and Canada have trillions of cubic feet of NG also. I have followed the Qatar gas to liquid some. I think that will be the fuel of choice in a few years. It is sulfur free diesel. Great for everything from tractors to jet aircraft. Shell, Exxon & Qatar are spending billions on GTL projects.
  • scottlscottl Member Posts: 109
    Worldwide natural gas is predicted to peak 2015-20. Switching to NG for transport will just accelerate the home heating by NG crisis that we will face in ten years, just like the home heating with oil and propane crisis we see now.

    Let's face it. We must start a crash program to build nukes NOW, or we are going to be in a world of hurt in ten years. Unfortunately, our fearless leaders and candidates are afraid to address the issue. The best thing Bush could do would be to tell the truth to the US between the election and the inaugaration. Too bad he won't, because it wouid point out to people that we have squandered eight years that we could have been using to manuver out of the mess. At least he admitted last week that the Middle East is running out of oil.
  • trispectrispec Member Posts: 305
    Around Boston, there is no evidence that the price of gas is causing less traffic. Boston has a great mass transit system; Acela high speed rail, commuter rail, trains, trolleys, subways, buses, and cabbies. There has been absolutely no increase in the use of mass transit. None. In fact, all of mass transit is asking for bigger subsidies than ever before to cover rising costs that forecasts project will never reach break even.

    Boston has also just finished a $14 billion road and tunnel upgrade. Guess what? More freak'n traffic has filled up the road and tunnel systems capacity again. California learned all this stuff five decades ago. Road building leads to more car traffic. That's it. The original "Building it and they will come" paradigm. So the only way to stop people driving is to tear up the roads. Is that going to ever happen. Nope.

    If the price of gas goes to $10/gal folks will cut everywhere BUT driving. The car culture in Europe where 10/gal is normal, still clogs the roads. The legendary German auto ban is clogged worse than ever. London charges just to enter the city and folks still clog the streets with cars. As long as cars exist and roads exist, people will drive until they die.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Let's face it. We must start a crash program to build nukes

    I was pushing for more nuclear power in the 1970s. Everyone thought we were kooks. At least Greenpeace leadership is finally coming around on the subject. Nuclear has its own issues for sure. But EVERY alternative has environmental downsides.

    it wouid point out to people that we have squandered eight years

    I can make the case that we have squandered nearly 100 years depending on foreign oil. I believe our first example of our becoming tied up with a ruthless dictatorship to supply US with oil would be Turkey after WW1. We expanded our dependence greatly during WW2 and have gone on a down hill slide since then. At the very least we should have done something after the 1973 oil embargo.

    The truth of the matter is we do not know how much oil is left. Now they are claiming that Iraq may have more than SA. We need to face it. ALL our leaders have treated us like mushrooms. As much as I like nuclear power, that will do little to ease the flow of oil to feed our cars. It could make electric heat for our homes practical again.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,684
    Nearly 40 years of nuclear power plant building has been squandered because of the green folks who paraded in protests to stop any plant or any idea of a plant being built.

    Thanks.

    Even now we suffer with their grip on the legislatures that control the ability to move quickly to start building more plants to get rid of generating plants still using petroleum products. Even coal could supplant some petroleum products being used now if more nuclear plants replace the coal-burning electric plants.

    We need to immediately open up the coastlines to exploration and drilling for oil off Florida and California bypassing the green folks and all the hurdles they set up to prevent us helping ourselves. The green folks wanting higher gas prices will get what they want, but it's time for overriding all the regs to get quick starts on adding oil supply and nuclear power.

    I recall the part time college branch biology teacher leading protests outside the Moscow site for a nuclear plant in progress. As the hearings stalled, the regulations became more stringent and eventually the plant was built as coal-fired. I wonder where that part time college teacher is today... Oh, that's Moscow, Ohio... where a Cincinnati Gas and Electric nuclear plant was being built.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Around Boston, there is no evidence that the price of gas is causing less traffic.

    I know the tollway system here has only seen about 1-2% drop in traffic and that is more likely due to construction than anything else.

    California learned all this stuff five decades ago. Road building leads to more car traffic.

    That doesn't make sense. That would mean that if you build a road people will take meaningless trips down it. If more traffic is using it that has to mean it is drawing it off of some place else reducing the congestion there.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    As long as cars exist and roads exist, people will drive until they die.

    It is one of our last remaining freedoms to just jump in the car and get away from other people. No matter how congested the city you can drive a short distance and be in the country or mountains or desert. Away from the stinking cities people are compelled to live in due to economics. When I think of mass transit I see hundreds of drones filling the seats of a train or bus going nowhere. Having that freedom taken away by high fuel prices will cause people to prioritize their lives. What is and is not important. It could also explain why getting people to car pool is so difficult. You put 2-3-4-5 people in a car and try to decide on which radio station. You have to ask yourself is it worth saving $5-$10 per day?
  • avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    Oops!!! My bad. I read the article again and the length was 40,320ft. "With a horizontal section of 35,770ft" That is probably just as incredible as going straight down. Here is the link so people can check the facts. Apparently I was not awake when I read it the first time. :(

    http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=219715&version- =1&template_id=48&parent_id=28

    http://www.offshore-technology.com/projects/alshaheen/specs.html
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Unfortunately, the problem with nuclear power itself is not nuclear power itself, but the costs involved in making it safe. Yes, you can make a nuclear plant safe, but it's expensive to do so, and companies would rather lobby Congress for softer regulations than spend the money. Unfortunately, that tug-of-war tends to be a hold-up in many industries (cars and CAFE come to mind, heh) but it's especially important when we're talking about something as important and as potentially dangerous as a nuclear power plant.

    Personally I love the idea: it'd place a lot less strain on fossil fuel reserves. But the LAST thing I want the US to have is it's own version of Chernobyl: the super-greenies have a point on that. There HAS to be regulation as far as safety goes to protect the surrounding area from getting killed by their own power plant.
  • avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    I think your post went a bit overboard on the optimism. ;)

    I have noticed a change here when driving on the interstate. Average speeds are down about 5 mph. In the last few trips I have yet to see someone doing 80 mph or better (limit is 75mph). Driving 80 was common a few years ago. Around town there is very little change. Some of us at work are talking about little scooters and electric bikes. It is just talk for now.

    I think you overestimate the ability of the average person when it comes to absorbing higher gas prices. There is a whole segment of our population that is reeling from high food, gas and other costs. Demand is coming down. For example, my local Toyota dealer still has
    13 Sequoias
    39 Tundras
    but only
    1 Prius (which I am sure is gone by now)
    3 Corollas
    2 Yaris

    People are changing their buying habits. We will see more evidence of that in early June when the May car sales come out.

    AAA has two more states with average RUG prices over $4 - West Virginia & Indiana. The real surprise was that diesel in California is at $5.044 and $5.026 in New York. I am sure that some truckers have just gone numb as the price inches up a few pennies at a time.
  • coontie66coontie66 Member Posts: 110
    The tree hugging environmentalists have our country in a total strangle hold. They have kept nukes from being built now for 40 years and also oil refineries. There is not many congressmen / congresswomen that have ever stood up to their loud rhetoric and told them to be quite. We can't drill for oil in ANWAR, we can't drill off the FL coast, we can't drill off CA, we don't want a oil refinery NIBY, we have tons of natural gas in AK but not pipelines cause of the same nonsense we discussed in 1975 with the first pipeline, we can't have a NUKE cause it MIGHT / MAY have a problem... we can't cut trees in the National Forests because it looks bad and MIGHT do something like allow someone to build a house with cheaper lumber, we can't put a road into the National Forest because the tree hugger doesn't want to see the road when he WALKS into the "wilderness area". Have you ever noted the use of the words such as MAY, MIGHT etc. That just means the environmentalists don't know what they are talking about and are guessing the outcome of some action. Their guessing the outcome has our country really in a PICKLE now. The current politician running for president says he wants CHANGE AND IS THE AGENT OF CHANGE. He says he MAY be that agent... I think its going to be just more of the same until someone asks for PROOF of what they say MAY happen. Personally I think the country MAY go to H**l because of what MAY happen next. We needed Nukes yesterday and we needed more fuel efficient cars yesterday. I still remember seeing the first really excessive gas guzzler Ford Excursion I think it was in 1998 and thinking to my self this MAY be excessive and a waste of gas and $$$ (seems like the president at that time has a wife running now).

    And then there was the HUMMER... HUMM?

    Now, there are the McMansions... tons of houses big enough to hold those HUMMERS. . 4000-8000++ sq ft houses with 4-8 car garages. I suppose at least 2 or 3 people occupy these small hotels. I wonder if they are going to all want to be on the natural gas line when it arrives from Alaska. No doubt they hooked up to the electric line that comes from a now aging Nuke near me. There is an application in to build two more Nukes but my children's grandchildren MAY see it build with all the stumbling blocks the green team has erected.

    HUMMM....

    Our country MAYBE in trouble. YA THINK??
  • avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    "We must start a crash program to build nukes NOW, or we are going to be in a world of hurt in ten years."

    How will this fix the current pain at the pump?
    My second question is with what? People have tried building Nuclear plants in the U.S. over the last 20 years. You may want to review why they failed.
    Do you understand what it takes to build a Nuclear plant?
    Where will we find the thousands of Nuclear engineers needed to build the plants?
    What about the cost?
    There is the NIMBY factor.
    Where will you get the water?

    We might build a few plants in the next ten years, but a crash building program is unlikely. In fact, the new plants may not even be enough to keep up with older plants that will close.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,331
    It could make electric heat for our homes practical again.

    It already is, here in the land of TVA-subsidized power. I live in an all-electric house with a heat pump, and it was pretty inexpensive to heat this past winter.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,684
    >a nuclear power plant.

    Maybe we could do what the, gasp, French have done.
    link title

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Better be careful what you wish for. The folks over in Eastern Idaho can't even manage to keep eight drums of radioactive waste safe:

    Radioactive waste containers had filters removed

    Nuke power plant accidents happen all the time - about the time someone actually spends the 5 to 12 billion to build a new one, there's going to be another TMI level accident and that'll send all that money down the tubes again.

    At least when a natural gas powered steam plant explodes, it only kills the workers on site....
  • flash11flash11 Member Posts: 98
    1stpik, you are wrong. Johnny is 100% correct.
    It is not a conspiracy theory any longer, it is fact. There are many books written on this subject.
    Please read 'The Economic Hitman' by John Perkins ex-CEO and ex-EHM.
    There is a whole chapter devoted to Venezuela. Another to Colombia.
    Foreign economic policy affects all commodity prices including oil, and transporatation within this country.
    If you refuse to believe it, you can live in denial. The rest of us will change and adapt with an educated decision making process including who we vote for in the next election, dude !
  • flash11flash11 Member Posts: 98
    Chavez has won 2 democratically run elections back to back. The first he won with a majority of almost 80% of the votes. Only the Elite, bankers, and multinational corporations did not like it because he took the power out of their hands and gave it back to the people, reinvesting into the infrastructure with oil dollars and other resource profits. Now Venezuela can determine its own future.
    Attempting to invade will turn into another Iraq, El Salvador etc.with a guerilla movement making it so costly for the US to conduct their war, they will have to get out and solve the issues with diplomacy. Actually Chavez reached out on public US television asking the US for help, love and understanding. He is not Saddam Hussein.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    I haven't necessarily read what the French did with their nukes, but I believe they have 1 or a few standard designs. I believe most of the expense we have experienced here in the U.S. is because each plant is a custom design.

    If the government had nuclear and civil engineers approve a few designs, with standardized pats, I think the cost to build nuclear plant would be greatly reduced.

    The more electricity you can produce, the more people could convert from oil-heat to electric, and thus free up oil for diesel engines. That would take the pressure off the market, and people would have the benefit of lower price, more efficient diesel engines.
  • flash11flash11 Member Posts: 98
    Actually on the topic of alternate fuels Nanosolar, a US based company just innovated and developed a new process to roll elecrolytic material on to a thin metal sheet. This surpasses the present solar panel technology since it will be 1/5th the cost to produce. As this technology becomes more economically feasible people can do a grid-tie in and contribute or subsidize their present electricity costs. Also a man built a 10 KW/h solar system to his house in NJ, and is completely selfsufficient electrically, and uses some of the excess energy to electrolyze water into hydrogen, which he fills into 10 huge propane tanks (this guy has land) and uses this for his car etc.

    Here is an excerpt Q and A session from the Nanosolar website:

    Q). In the thin film industry there are several players like Miasole or SoloPower that are looking to build the next CIGS thin film technology. What will make the difference in which technologies win the deals?

    A).An IEC-certified panel product available in near-term 100MW volume at a fully-loaded cost point in the sixties [cents/Watt] or less so that one can profitably sell at a $.99/Watt wholesale price point. There’s no chance a process technology based on a high-vacuum deposition technique is going to make this. The window of opportunity for that more conventional approach to CIGS existed perhaps two years ago in the form of the chance of getting to market earlier with such more incremental technology.

    But by now, the industry has moved on generally and Nanosolar is there with far better third-generation process technology that took a $150-million deep-dive into very science-intense research and development to develop, and that momentum gap that will continue to broaden fast.
  • flash11flash11 Member Posts: 98
    See this report found on CNN.com, under Wind Farms..

    MAJOR NEW TECHNICAL REPORT FINDS WIND CAN PROVIDE 20% OF U.S. ELECTRICITY NEEDS BY 2030

    U.S. Department of Energy Analysis Finds That Wind
    Can Be Major Contributor to Energy Mix

    Wind power is capable of becoming a major contributor to America’s electricity supply over the next three decades, according to a report released today by the U.S. Department of Energy. The groundbreaking report, 20% Wind Energy by 2030: Increasing Wind Energy’s Contribution to U.S. Electricity Supply, looks closely at one scenario for reaching 20% wind energy by 2030 and contrasts it to a scenario of no new U.S. wind power capacity.

    "DOE's wind report is a thorough look at America's wind resource, its industrial capabilities, and future energy prices, and confirms the viability and commercial maturity of wind as a major contributor to America's energy needs, now and in the future," DOE Assistant Secretary of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy for the U.S. Department of Energy Andy Karsner, said. "To dramatically reduce greenhouse gas emissions and enhance our energy security, clean power generation at the gigawatt-scale will be necessary, and will require us to take a comprehensive approach to scaling renewable wind power, streamlining siting and permitting processes, and expanding the domestic wind manufacturing base."

    Included in the report are an examination of America’s technological and manufacturing capabilities, the future costs of energy sources, U.S. wind energy resources, and the environmental and economic impacts of wind development. Under the 20% wind scenario, installations of new wind power capacity would increase to more than 16,000 megawatts per year by 2018, and continue at that rate through 2030.

    “The report shows that wind power can provide 20% of the nation’s electricity by 2030, and be a critical part of the solution to global warming,” said AWEA Executive Director Randall Swisher. “This level of wind power is the equivalent of taking 140 million cars off the road,” he said. “The report identifies the central constraints to achieving 20% - transmission, siting, manufacturing and technology - and demonstrates how each can be overcome. As an inexhaustible domestic resource, wind strengthens our energy security, improves the quality of the air we breathe, slows climate change, and revitalizes rural communities.”

    The report finds that achieving a 20 percent wind contribution to U.S. electricity supply would:

    Reduce carbon dioxide emissions from electricity generation by 25 percent in 2030.
    Reduce natural gas use by 11%;
    Reduce water consumption associated with electricity generation by 4 trillion gallons by 2030;
    Increase annual revenues to local communities to more than $1.5 billion by 2030; and
    Support roughly 500,000 jobs in the U.S., with an average of more than 150,000 workers directly employed by the wind industry.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The French utility reported 735 significant incidents in 2006. The newer plants are reporting more incidents than the older ones, which is a bit of a surprise.

    Hundreds of such events occur in the nuclear countries every year; unfortunately there's no agreement on how to classify the events as to severity, etc.

    pdf link
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,684
    I understand that the French have a design and the plants are built to that. It eliminates the variations that leave room for protesters to complain.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • dgfitdgfit Member Posts: 8
    the past 7-8 years, I have been traveling different parts of the world...seeing the rainforest go bye-bye, overpopulation, different places and times.........my thoughts are:
    1.Americans have been warned since the 70's about the middle east,etc...but, no, suv's...more and more power,etc..so, here we are with $4/gal. gas and probably more...changes I thought 3-4 years ago that would take 10 have occurred in the last year....
    2.you elected a president who could've have used the 9/11 mandate to build energy sources and jobs in this country......nope, borrow like there is no tomorrow and a war that goes nowhere....almost 7 years later...you still didn't get the bad guy that did 9/11......demand/supply in the world is very very tight..biggest point consumer in the world is the US military.....for a useless endeavor.
    3. I am a professional conservationist..but I believe practical...develop nuclear and wind power and coal to gasoline...dirty?? clean it up and employ more epole here doing so......drill ANWAR? There has always been provision of law to drill it in an ENERGENCY...which filling up your bloated SUV is....NOT! get real!! look at the little that [at MAXIMUM of estmates] you can have oil for all our vehicles at current demand..you gotta learn to do the same thing with less........up the thermostat in the summer to 78-80F....wear a sweater in winter...drive 55-60 mph on the interstate,etc. IF there is such a panic...how many people do you know that you see doing this?? If energy is SUCH a crisis for the pocketbook...why not some laws right now to curb some excessive use like the 70's? the next step with the tight worldwide demand for oil is rationing..get ready..it may well happen in a few years........need a hybrid for all of this...nope1 I have a 5 star safety-rated car that is big as a full-size from sveral years ago...gets 42-45 mpg with AC...honda civic....I have a 50 mpg toyota echo...plenty of other good choices also,,...all, non-hybrid.
    3.I went to portugal in feb. 1 euro=1.45-1.47..then,now in turkey last week, it is 1 euro=1.70...yes, your dollar buys a lot less in a little time..why? pres. and company keep printing more money..and this is ONLY the interest on the whole affair! I get tired of going to other countries and seeing thier mass transit....and small cars everywhere...return to nashville and they are raising fares and cutting routes on the mass transit....the world is NOT the 50/60/70/80 or 90's......you are going to have to adapt/learn..or lose!! I really don't know....americans have been known in the past for thier ingenuity and ability to think and work and survive...yes, as previous poster said, we are in trouble...now what??????????
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    The fact is, you're GOING to have problems with any endeavor...nothing is 100% problem-free, no matter what. There are going to be malfunctions, unforeseen circumstances, acts of various deities, and in the case of the French, the occasional German invasion. :shades:

    The important part is to have things in place to deal with whatever comes up, and it's especially important when dealing with a nuke plant. Those are something one really should not be scrimping on when it comes to safety. Unfortunately, since American companies have this little tendency to call lawyers instead of engineers to fix their adherence to safety regulations, that places us, the energy-consuming public, in a slight pickle.

    Incidentally, you guys might want to read up on Indian Point, which I live fairly close to. Nuke plant, 2 reactors, and "stuff" flying left and right that it should/shouldn't be relicensed, safety issues, the owners not bothering to FIX the safety issues, despite fines, and the biggest question: if they DO close it down then where will the poor NYC people get their electricity?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The fact is, you're GOING to have problems with any endeavor

    Yep, that's why some of us prefer to have the occasional blade fly off the windmill or the solar array to fall off the tower or the refinery to blow up. Unless I'm right next door or working in the facility, I don't have much reason to be concerned of what's going to blow downwind or wind up in my well water. That's not true with nukes as near as I can tell.

    We haven't even touched on storage, transport, or reprocessing of the waste.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    If the refinery blows up you'd BETTER worry about what's in your well water...that stuff sinks into the ground fast and contaminates drinking water like you wouldn't believe. The water at my last complex has been heavily contaminated by previous oil spills into the Hudson River that seeped into the local strata. Technically, it was OK for drinking, but I probably could have run my car off of it, just to give you some idea.

    As far as nuclear waste products...one of the major ones is depleted uranium. It's one of the densest materials on the planet, which by itself implies all sorts of industrial uses. Why store it? My monitor gives off more radiation that depleted uranium. :shades: It's useful for all kinds of things, including, ironically, radiation shielding. :P
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    What happened to the Freedom of information act. I want to know if that yoyo is working in my area. I would say he is at least as dangerous as a sex offender. It sounds to me like he was following some bosses order and it is being covered up.
  • mmccloskeymmccloskey Member Posts: 168
    Greetings:

    I've been reading this forum for quite some time and must say it is the most interesting and informative of any on Edmunds.

    Anyway, I recently bought a motor scooter (Yamaha C-3) and it is estimated to get 115mpg with a top speed of 40mph! As I live in a fairly rural area (South of Charlottesville, VA) the local roads around here are lightly traveled and the speed limit is 45 so I feel fairly safe from those speed demons and crazies. I live just 9 miles from the local shopping center and can scoot up there and back and use far less gas than my Ford Ranger (average 19mpg) or Toyota Highlander Hybrid (average 28mpg)). I realize than many don't live in an area condusive to riding a scooter but being retired with lots of free time I can run up to the store for some light provisions (good sized storage area under the seat).

    I have attached a pic for reference.

    Happy and SAFE motoring to all -

    Regards - M. J. McCloskey
    image
  • avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/05/23/business/gas.php

    Disposal Income spent on transportation fuels
    1981 - 4.5%
    1998 - 1.9% (lowest)
    Now - 3.7%

    Cost of gasoline per mile
    1980 - 17.1 cents
    1998 - 5.6 cents
    Now - 15 cents
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    OPEC chief Abdala El Badri on Thursday said members were unhappy with surging prices he blamed on speculators and a weak US dollar.

    "We are not very happy with this increase in oil prices," said El-Badri during a visit to Ecuador.

    "Volatility has nothing to do with the fundamentals. It has nothing to do with world demand," he said, stressing that a dropping dollar was driving prices higher.

    "The price was at 130 dollars and today is at 135, so it's really a crazy market," he said.

    El-Badri, OPEC's secretary general, is on a week-long working visit to the two OPEC member states in Latin America, Venezuela and Ecuador.

    Tuesday he met with Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez in Caracas and with Minister of Energy and Petroleum/President of PDVSA, Rafael Ramirez.

    In a statement released by the cartel on Wednesday, El-Badri said that OPEC remained committed "to working for the stability of the international oil market, noting that the current high oil prices are not influenced by market fundamentals, as the market is well-supplied.

    "OPEC will continue to monitor global oil markets regularly and is ready to act if and when necessary to ensure market stability and adequate supplies," the statement added.

    Crude oil prices rocketed to record highs above 135 dollars on Thursday, driven by growing concerns that energy supplies will fail to meet demand, analysts said.

    Prices later pulled back to just below 133 dollars owing to profit-taking.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I spend about ten hours outside working in the yard getting everything done so we can enjoy the coming summer. During all this time I heard not one ice cream vender trolling for sales. Nice days like today would mean hearing the same bad rendition of "turkey in the straw" over and over again for 45 minutes as the ice cream vendor would slowly make their way through the neighborhood. And we can get as many as 3 a day come through on a weekend day. :sick:

    Ah peace and quite in the burbs :)

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Crude oil prices rocketed to record highs above 135 dollars on Thursday, driven by growing concerns that energy supplies will fail to meet demand, analysts said.

    Prices later pulled back to just below 133 dollars owing to profit-taking.


    That's what it's all about in a nutshell basically. Buy some, then drive the price up (short supply rumors will do nicely), then sell it so they can make some money.

    That and the weak dollar is driving the whole thing right now. And the weak dollar is our own fault. :sick:
  • trispectrispec Member Posts: 305
    "Volatility has nothing to do with the fundamentals. It has nothing to do with world demand," he said, stressing that a dropping dollar was driving prices higher."

    Oh, so that's why my last pint of beer in London cost $25.

    But why has the price of my ammo tripled?

    The democratically controlled Congress is burning our tax dollars in the desert by giving in to the "Support our troops" bumper sticker crowd so I can't buy ammo or gas. Great going dems.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    But why has the price of my ammo tripled?

    You need to load your own. Much better quality control You want 1/4 inch groups you have to have good loads. I've walked out of bars that wanted $7 for a mixed drink. I don't think this is a good time to vacation in the EU. Maybe the reason our vacation spots are filled. The low priced dollar is good for something. Just not the working man and woman.

    PS
    I paid $4.15 per gallon at Shell today. I refuse to wait in line at Costco for $3.86 gas.
  • trispectrispec Member Posts: 305
    My uncle's totally into loading his own. Bought a used rig on eBay, including the cleaning vibrator bowl to process spent casings. Can't buy the cleaning crushed walnut shells for cheap though. Looks fairly reasonable.

    Now how the hell am I going to make my own gas?
  • avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    "But why has the price of my ammo tripled?"

    Demand for metals around the world. Try this as a start - Events, Trends, and Issues: http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/copper/

    '"The democratically controlled Congress is burning our tax dollars in the desert by giving in to the "Support our troops" bumper sticker crowd so I can't buy ammo or gas. Great going dems."

    That has got to be one of the most illogical statements I've seen in a while. There is absolutely no logical connection between the different parts of the sentence or the price of fuel. What desert are you talking about? You can buy all the ammo and gas you want. Why don't you go to the political forum at Edmunds to express your views.
    http://www.cbpp.org/3-5-08bud.htm
    http://budget.house.gov/faq_budget.shtml
  • ny540i6ny540i6 Member Posts: 518
    have noticed a change here when driving on the interstate. Average speeds are down about 5 mph. In the last few trips I have yet to see someone doing 80 mph or better (limit is 75mph). Driving 80 was common a few years ago. Around town there is very little change. Some of us at work are talking about little scooters and electric bikes. It is just talk for now

    I just did a quick run up to Boston (Friday evening) and back (Saturday afternoon), and I did not see a whole lot of slowing down; what surprised me was the relatively high number of NY plated cars - looked like all the folks who were heading out early for a weekend at Cape Cod (or wherever) were already out. On the way back through Ct I saw a ton of traffic (headed in the other direction :D ) Here in NYC it does appear that some additional mass transit is being used, but it is very route dependent.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    According to a recent survey released by AAA, the number of Americans traveling over 50 miles from home over Memorial Day weekend should fall by about 1% from last year.

    Since gas prices have already topped $4.00 per gallon for regular unleaded gas in some areas, many are rethinking travel plans for the holiday. Last year over Memorial Day Weekend, the price of gas was $3.11, so in one year there has been more than a 25% increase in the price of gas.

    The big question on many consumers' minds is how to alleviate these high costs at the pump and save a few bucks. Here are a few things you can do to keep a little more money in your pocket.

    The Car You Drive:

    » Keep your car tuned up. Cars in poor running condition use more gasoline.

    » Check your tire pressure. Over-inflated tires can actually reduce your fuel efficiency, just as under-inflated tires do, so don't overfill.

    » Drive the speed limit. Each 10 miles per hour faster that you drive will reduce your fuel economy by 15% to 20%, according to tests by Consumer Reports and Edmunds.com.

    » You no longer need to warm your car up for long periods of time, especially new cars. New cars are made to run when cold.

    » Take unnecessary items out of the car. The less weight you have in your car the better gas mileage you'll get.

    » Keep your windows closed when traveling at high speeds. Open windows cause additional drag and lower your gas mileage. At high speeds, an open window can cause your car to use more gas than many air conditioners (especially if they are on a low setting).

    » When you run your air conditioner, it lowers your gas mileage. Use your air conditioner sparingly. If you have a lower setting, use it.

    » Use your cruise control if available. Cruise controls prevent unnecessary speed changes which waste gas. In tests by Edmunds.com, using a cruise control at 77 mph improved fuel economy by 10 to 15 percent.

    »If you have more than one car to choose from, don't just try to squeeze everyone into the one or two that go the furthest on a gallon. First of all, if you think you're saving gas by splitting the crew into two small cars rather than taking the big SUV, you're not. Remember, two small cars will burn gas twice as fast as one, and that's probably faster than your SUV.

    You:

    » If at all possible, try to arrange car pools with co-workers to share the cost of commuting to work.

    » Walk, bike or run to your intended location whenever possible.

    » If possible, change your work start time to avoid gridlock. Stop and go traffic hurts your gas mileage.

    » Plan trips well to avoid unnecessary driving.

    »Leave for your destination a little early so you don't feel pressured to drive faster.

    » Avoid drive thru windows. They lead to excessive idling.

    » Use public transportation when you can in your schedule.

    » The most important step toward saving money on gas is to purchase vehicles that get high gas mileage. The difference between a 20 miles-per-gallon and 40 miles-per-gallon vehicle is huge.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    The Merritt or the NE Tpke? First there is an ungodly number of uber-wealthy people in the corridor from North Jersey, NYC, through Westchester, Fairfield county CT to CC and the outskirts of Boston. The effect of higher prices is not so significant if the family income is well in excess of $500K annually.
  • ny540i6ny540i6 Member Posts: 518
    You are quite right... I remember driving to Ohio, and then down to Texas a few months ago, and seeing a grand total of 3 BMWs, 2 Mercedes, and 1 Lexus.... yet on the road to Mass the "yuppie cockroach" (3 series BMW) was everywhere. Now that I think about it, much of the higher speed traffic was made up of more expensive sedans.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    When you drive North of San Clemente CA along the Coast, it is rare to see anything that is not an exotic. 740 BMW and SL550 are the common cars along that stretch of highway 101. The only CamCords are driven by the yard workers and maids. I felt like a 3rd class Citizen in my Sequoia with so many Land Rovers on the road. I don't think that fuel price enters the minds in places like Laguna Beach.
  • wchau2wchau2 Member Posts: 6
    There is some truth to trispec's statement about road building leading to more car traffic.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand

    To summarize, the extra road building increases the supply of road space thereby reducing the price (e.g. the time spent to travel to the destination) which increases demand.

    Here in Mississauga, Canada (just west of Toronto), the price of gas is $4.89 US per U.S. gallon (or 127.3 cents Canadian per litre) for regular unleaded. Premium unleaded is probably about $5.40.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    To summarize, the extra road building increases the supply of road space thereby reducing the price (e.g. the time spent to travel to the destination) which increases demand.

    There is a false premise here, the supply and demand equation is not the road but the destination/ To say that increasing road space automatically increases the use of that road means that people take meaningless trips just to use the road. Say the demand to travel between point 'A' and point 'B' is 150 cars an hour increasing the road capacity to 200 cars per hour would not increase traffic to that amount because there would be no demand for it.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • wchau2wchau2 Member Posts: 6
    There is a false premise here, the supply and demand equation is not the road but the destination/ To say that increasing road space automatically increases the use of that road means that people take meaningless trips just to use the road. Say the demand to travel between point 'A' and point 'B' is 150 cars an hour increasing the road capacity to 200 cars per hour would not increase traffic to that amount because there would be no demand for it.

    But if you have to use the road to get to the destination, then the road conditions do factor into the supply and demand equation.

    For example, it takes me about 75 to 90 minutes to drive from my workplace to downtown Toronto in the afternoon rush hour. This is a significant deterrent to me to participating in any activities located in the downtown area (e.g. sports games, concerts, etc.).

    If there was enough road space to make this a 30 minute drive, I would go downtown more often to participate in these activities. This extra demand is not meaningless, it just was not meaningful enough if the drive took 75 to 90 minutes.

    We are seeing a similar effect in the reverse direction with these higher gas prices. $4 per gallon gasoline is making some people cut back demand by driving less. That extra trip to Costco each week that is meaningful at $2 per gallon might not be meaningful enough at $4.

    As for your scenario, you're correct that the demand would not go up to 200 cars per hour. But it would not surprise me if the demand increased to 155 or 160 per hour.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,035
    I think the main reason that improved roads lead to more traffic is because all too often, once those new roads go in, more development springs up. Homes, businesses, etc, all taking advantage of that new road. Also, all too often, when a road does finally get upgraded, it's a change that really should have been done years, if not decades before. So when the improvement finally gets made, it could very well be too little, too late.

    For instance, a few years back, they widened one of the major roads around here, from two lanes to four. Yes, you read that right...a MAJOR road! It had only been on the master plan since roughly 1960, but in 2002 they finally started breaking ground on it. That road used to back up something horrible during rush hour, and for some reason, it seemed like the evenings were always worse than the mornings.

    Now, this new 4-lane stretch of road is much better than what it replaced. However, in the decades since 1960, the city it does through, Bowie MD, basically didn't exist. There was a small hovel of buildings down by the railroad tracks and a sprawling horse farm called Bel Air. Nowadays, there's a city of about 50-60,000 people, and there's so much suburban sprawl that all the towns sort of run together.

    Oftentimes, around here, the county or state will make a developer pay to upgrade the roads before they start building. So for a brief moment, there may actually be some improvement in congestion. Until those developments, churches, malls, etc go in. Then it's back to square one.
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