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Are gas prices fueling your pain?

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  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Got home and read that link more closely instead of skimming it. It is over six years old and even after that book came out Cramer had pretty much admitted to influencing the markets with his hedge fund. He said so in a couple of his books and in a couple of interviews.

    Full disclosure I actually kind of like Cramer for his crazy antics and that by following his advice. not necessarily his stock picks, but just his advice for how to research and pick stocks my portfolio is up about 10 percent so far this year while the larger market is down about 8 percent. Until today my portfolio was up about 13 percent but I got hammered today.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I'd simply like to see a local cyclist who stops at controlled intersections like a motorist.

    It's actually legal in Idaho for a cyclist to run a stop sign or red light, assuming traffic conditions permit. link.

    Which makes sense, since you can tell if traffic is clear at most intersections, even if you are going 15 or 20 mph. Or if you've stopped for the light and no one is around for miles, why sit there idling and wasting gas, waiting for the light to change?

    The logical extension in my mind is to extend that law to motorists - make California stops legal in other words. Rolling through intersections saves gas as opposed to having to come to a complete stop.

    The easy way to implement this would be to remove stop signs everywhere except for the known dangerous intersections.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,245
    "...if you don't think the possibility exists to manipulate prices..."

    Sounds like the Dot Com bubble to me. "Analysts" pump up a stock knowing it's a piece of crap and then sell it to all the willing fools.

    Today I heard that oil spiked to $138 because some analyst predicted $150 oil by July 4th.

    Back in the stock bubble days there was a local company called Plug Power. Some analyst predicted it would go up 50,000%. The stock went from $4 to $120 in about 6 months. Then the stock crashed back to $3. Who do you think bought at $4 and who bought at $120?

    Supply and demand doesn't cause $16 jumps in a few days. Hype does.

    I'm sure that in a few months after ma and pa investor have sunk their money into oil futures the market will crash leaving a lot of people broke and a few very rich.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Supply and demand doesn't cause $16 jumps in a few days. Hype does

    There was a guy on the NPR marketplace show this afternoon that said exactly that.

    JOHN KINGSTON: You don't move up $14 a barrel just on fundamentals when fundamentals haven't changed in 48 hours. But clearly there's been such a walloping of the dollar today. That is what's driving this over the last few days. Because there is really nothing else in the market right now that would indicate that there's a reason why oil should resume its growth.

    Full story there

    The Federal Reserve Board's recent effort to talk up the value of the dollar was drowned out yesterday when the president of the European Central Bank dropped a big hint that he'll raise interest rates to fight inflation. Fed watcher David Jones:

    DAVID JONES: That, of course, caused the dollar to fall, the euro to increase. And once again, the traders in a knee jerk way sold or shorted the dollar and bought crude oil.


    Basically to sum up the dollar getting walloped some questionable at best calls by analysts, and a few genuine concerns of supply stock piles are making oil go wonky.
  • tedebeartedebear Member Posts: 832
    The easy way to implement this would be to remove stop signs everywhere except for the known dangerous intersections.

    That's another reason I like the European road system where roundabouts are common. They just take a little time for drivers to get used to them but they seem to keep traffic flowing pretty well, even in huge cities like Paris.

    Speaking of traffic signals and cyclists, I always stop at a red light or stop sign when I'm riding. It's part of my attempt to gain respect from the drivers, although I'm sure it would make no difference to a few individuals here.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,772
    morgan stanley known for their ability to read the market? real estate, NOT. oil, probably the same. gets their name in the news, though.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    last time I checked few non interstate type roads had minimum speed limits.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,474
    Last time I checked, going 1/10 the speed of other traffic and creating a bottleneck is asking for trouble.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    If there is not a minimum speed then there is no law being broken.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,474
    Some roads do have laws about restricting a certain number of vehicles...but only motorized transport is held accountable, no doubt.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,474
    I agree with that idea regarding lights and California stops. It would save gas and time.

    I live and work in an area where the traffic planners are iffy at best, and sometimes the lights are ridiculous, especially early mornings and weekends, where a car can sit for several minutes with no cross traffic. This is simply a negligent and irresponsible maintenance of traffic controls, not that a taxpayer funded organization should be assumed to have accountability. There's one light I deal with every morning...if it doesn't change in 10 seconds, you'll sit there 3-5 minutes,and maybe 1 or 2 cars will pass during that time. I have complained about this light many times to no avail. Now, if the light doesn't change, I simply stop and go.

    As has been posted before, I must suspect that if gas prices rise to seriously impact demand and therefore gas tax revenues, traffic planners will have no problem screwing up light sequencing even more, just to waste a little gas and gain more revenue.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Don't expect the GX470 to get as good a mileage as the Sequoia. And it is more cramped. We passed on the GX as be inferior to the Sequoia. For what you will lose in this market you can buy a lot of high priced gas.

    PS
    You will have an extra hard time getting rid of a 2WD Sequoia. Very hard to sell outside CA where they are bought for show only.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Of course prices at the pump spiked to match this nonsensical spike in crude this evening by 10 cents to $4.05.

    No change in actual supply or demand, just the hype.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    WASHINGTON (AP) - Plans for a levitating train from Las Vegas to Disneyland can move forward under a transportation bill signed by President Bush on Friday that frees up $45 million for the futuristic project.

    Derided by critics as pie in the sky, the train would use magnetic levitation technology to carry passengers from Disneyland to Las Vegas in well under two hours, traveling at speeds of up to 300 mph. It would be the first MagLev system in the U.S.

    The money is the largest cash infusion in the project's nearly 20-year history. It will pay for environmental studies for the first leg of the project.

    The money had been delayed by a drafting error in Congress' 2005 highway bill, which was corrected along with some other changes by the legislation signed Friday by Bush. The delay had allowed a competing and cheaper diesel-electric plan to emerge as an alternative, but with the money now freed up supporters hope to move forward with the MagLev plan.

    The train is meant to ease traffic on increasingly clogged Interstate 15, the main route for the millions of Southern Californians who make the 250-plus-mile drive to Las Vegas each year. There is no train on the route—Amtrak's Desert Wind between Los Angeles and Las Vegas was canceled in 1997 because of low ridership.

    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., praised passage of the law, saying the MagLev project "will safely and efficiently move people between Southern California and Las Vegas."


    $45 million for environmental studies on the first leg. If it is anything like the one planned in Japan, that one is $400 Billion. Sounds like another US government boondoggle. Or the Boston BIG DIG joke. If Las Vegas wants people to come from Disney land. Build their own MagLev. Don't waste tax payers money on such nonsense. Besides, CA has plenty of Indian Casinos. We don't need to go to no stinking Las Vegas to waste money.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,245
    "...going 1/10 the speed of other traffic and creating a bottleneck is asking for trouble..."

    I think they call that hypermiling. Every day on my way to work I get stuck behind some fool doing 45 in a 65 where traffic is doing 70. Once you get stuck behind one of these people it is almost impossible to pass them in heavy traffic without slamming the gas pedal to the floor.

    So Mr. hypermiler gets his 30mpg and you get 15. :mad:

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • 1stpik1stpik Member Posts: 495
    That used to be the case with all the RVs on the road in the 1990s. Try passing one of them on a twisty mountain road.

    Much fewer RVs these days. $4 gas and $5 diesel has some benefits.
  • flash11flash11 Member Posts: 98
    Just saw the 2008 Detroit autoshow and 2008 Geneva autoshow videos. Chrysler will build 3 new environmentally friendly concept cars that will combat the high price of gasoline and diesel and hopefully should be manufactured within the next 3 years and sold to the public:
    1-Jeep Wrangler electric EV propulsion plus a diesel engine range extender, will get 110 mpg and go 250 miles on one tank/charge before refill.
    Advantage, good all terrain commuter car with trunk space, disadvantages it is a two seater with no head cover-no one likes to drive in the rain or snowy conditions without something covering your head-they should copy the regular Jeep and allow for people to put a cover on top if needed-at least give the option.
    2-Chrysler Ecovoyager electric EV propulsion plus hydrogen fuel cell, 300 miles range before refueling,4 seater, lots of leg room and trunk space, luxurious, technologically advanced with all the amenities, 0-60 in under 8 seconds, very cool looking with sun roof.
    3-Dodge ZEO electric propulsion 4 seater sports car, awesome, 240 mile range commuter. 0-60 in under 6 seconds, watch out Tesla !
    Now I am waiting for them to coat them with solar electrolytic paint and electrodes to the generator on each of these cars so when they are sitting in the parking lot at work they can recharge themselves!!
  • avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    "Every day on my way to work I get stuck behind some fool doing 45 in a 65 where traffic is doing 70."

    I think that is rather funny. According to you the impatient criminals should be allowed to speed and waste gas. The real fools are the ones that don't get that things have changed. Gas prices in the $4 range are a game changer. Expect more people to make adjustments.

    And in case people are having trouble with what the word limit means:

    "Limit refers principally to the establishment of a maximum beyond which a person or thing cannot or may not go" :P
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/limit

    The other day I did 55 mph on a road with a limit of 65 mph and 60 on a road with a limit of 70. Traffic was light even for here in ND. The few people that wanted to travel faster passed me without incident. I'm probably going to do this more often. It was rather relaxing. :shades:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypermiler

    For Advanced Hypermiling Techniques go to
    http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?s=1605d8037fc007e548aa3317e00e052d- &t=1510
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The sad thing with Chrysler. They had a great diesel hybrid ready to go in 1999. It was the same size as the Intrepid and got 72 MPG. The estimated cost was $7,500 more than the gas only version. Chrysler felt it would not sell and scrapped the project. I do understand they used some of the technology for upcoming vehicles. They could have had the success Toyota now enjoys with the Prius.

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/motorsports/1268751.html?page=2
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Member Posts: 936
    I will drive the legal limit up to 65MPH and if it's higher I limit myself to 65. There are times it's either speed or get run over by trucks.Such is the case on I94 past Gary Indiana.
    Using these "rules" I managed an average of 37.4 MPG on my trip to Sandusky Oh last weekend.This in a medium sized car,a KIA Optima.
    Speeders should have a little empathy for people who drive slower because they are trying to save some gas money.We aren't all wealthy.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Every day on my way to work I get stuck behind some fool doing 45 in a 65 where traffic is doing 70.

    I agree that it is disruptive to the flow of traffic. I run into it almost every time I go down the hill to shop. I am stretching the time out to about once every two weeks. On my return trip there is about 8 miles of uphill grade. It is tough for a loaded semi to go much more than 45 MPH and they stay in the right lane. If you come up on someone just poking along in a car it makes it difficult to get out into the left lane as it is POSTED 70 MPH and traffic is running at 75+ MPH. Now that includes the Highway Patrol and Sheriff cars. So I am assuming that the signs that say 70 MPH Speed Limit are just a recommendation.

    While I can appreciate someone trying to save gas, clogging up the Interstate is not the place to do that. They can take the less traveled highways and drive as slow as they like. That is the route I take with my under powered Ford Ranger. 60 MPH is about the max that V6 will propel my truck up that long grade empty. So why should I hold up traffic because I have a POC slow vehicle?

    I think the attitude of some hypermilers is causing a polarization on our highways. Road rage will be the result. Why would anyone want to add to that rage?
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I will drive the legal limit up to 65MPH and if it's higher I limit myself to 65.

    I limit myself now to about 62 MPH for two reasons. First it seems my car gets the best mileage at that speed (and it only adds 10-15 minutes to my longest drive) and second I would like to keep the RPM's low as my car does have 150K miles on it so I want to baby the engine a little.

    There are times it's either speed or get run over by trucks.Such is the case on I94 past Gary Indiana.

    The Borman? Seems like every time I drive that trucks are going quite slow (as is most of traffic), Lots of traffic on that road and lots of truck traffic but it usually is congested enough to keep speeds down.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,474
    The hypermilers around here are usually well behaved and know which lane to stay in. It's usually not the dork in the Prius who is going 10 under in the left lane. And to add to it, 90% of people here merge onto a 60mph road at 35mph out of a simple natural lack of driving skill, so it's something one becomes accustomed to...you just learn to veer left quickly once on the road. The issues here are caused by LLCs who aren't necessarily trying to save gas, they are usually just oblivious.

    I suspect for the hypermilers who don't understand lane discipline, as much gas is wasted by those held up than what is saved by the dawdlers themselves.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,474
    Just stay in the proper lane, and there will be no problems. That's the key fault of drivers on this continent.

    The use of "criminals" is a bit sanctimonious and glib, eh? :P

    You're not a deputy....
  • avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    "I think the attitude of some hypermilers is causing a polarization on our highways."

    This has already happened with people speeding. A person has the right to drive within the legal limits. Exceeding the speed limit is not reasonable. The idea that we should all get out of the way because some late, fool wants to drive over the speed limit, well as you said in another forum, too bad, so sad.

    And for anyone traveling through North Dakota you will often come upon tractors doing 25 to 40 mph on roads with 65 mph speed limits.

    Minimum Speed Limit:
    I. No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic. '39-09-09(1)
    II. A person, driving at less than the normal speed of traffic, shall drive in the right-hand lane then available for traffic or as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway. '39-10-08(2)

    Things will get worse before they get better. If they actual ever do get better. All the expensive fuel and asphalt is making road repairs and road expansions difficult at best.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    And for anyone traveling through North Dakota you will often come upon tractors doing 25 to 40 mph on roads with 65 mph speed limits.

    I think in MN tractors are exempt from the impeding traffic laws. That was an issue on the state roads when I was farming. I would say 25 MPH was the top speed for a tractor on the hwy. My John Deere "B"s would be lucky to top 10 mph. I used them to haul the hay wagons. They were pretty good on gas if memory serves me.

    If you feel you have the right to be in the left lane just because you are doing the speed limit, I would consider you a problem driver. You are not helping as much as you are hindering. Going the speed limit or less in the right lane, is what it is for.
  • tedebeartedebear Member Posts: 832
    Here's an idea for anyone who wants to reduce their gas purchase expense. ;)
    How to get FREE Gas
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Here on the Illinois Tollways they will charge you for that.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    If you feel you have the right to be in the left lane just because you are doing the speed limit, I would consider you a problem driver. You are not helping as much as you are hindering. Going the speed limit or less in the right lane, is what it is for.

    So, the left lane is there for those who wish to exceed the posted speed limit.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    So, the left lane is there for those who wish to exceed the posted speed limit.

    Ah! You've got it!

    Funny thing that. In reality that's what it's turned out to be.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    Here in NC it is not unheard of that a patrolman will pull a car that is going somewhat below the posted speed limit at times of light traffic (mostly very late night or early morning I think). That behavior is associated with drunk driving. I doubt they take much notice of it on Sunday afternoon though.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,245
    "...According to you the impatient criminals..."

    I never said that and in fact I was doing a little less that the speed limit. If you want to hypermile don't do it in heavy traffic. Then you become a selfish elitist who thinks his own preferences are all that matters. ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    If you drive a Buick and wear a hat you can go as slow as you'd like. I know it seems to work around here...
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 5,205
    Where I grew up, there were signs on the highway, "Keep right, except to pass." The left lane is for passing. If you're in it, and you ain't passing, please be so kind as to move over to the right...

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Funny that you mentioned that. Driving down a road that expanded to two lanes just before a light I picked the lane with a Buick in it. As we slowly pulled away from the light with traffic in the other lane passing us I muttered "I should have never gotten behind a Buick".

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    What if there is a left lane exit? How far before that exit can I get into the left lane and not leave it even if I am not passing?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    How far before that exit can I get into the left lane and not leave it even if I am not passing?

    I'd say "when you see the sign" as that is the clue to get ready. Then I would go at least the speed limit, until off the 1st road.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The convoluted freeway system around Los Angeles has a lot of those left exits. They do not add to the driving experience. Trying to get across 6 or more lanes of traffic that is bumper to bumper can be a real thrill. I have fond memories of LA in the late 1940s and 50s. By 1960 it had gone completely to hell. And the smog from leaded gas was horrible. I hate going up there to visit relatives. We invite them to our place.
  • 1stpik1stpik Member Posts: 495
    Los Angeles passed the PNR decades ago, I agree. But the few times I was forced to drive through there, I was amazed at the patience and polite behavior of the drivers there.

    Nobody ever cut me off, and if I needed to change lanes to exit the freeway, people would slow down and let me in. Perhaps my only fond memory of L.A.

    Here in North Texas, the Dallas metroplex is a much more hostile environment than southern California. Traffic moves a little better, but the drivers are real jerks.

    I won't go near the city. The closest I'll get is the northern suburbs. Traffic there is tolerable.

    Like many posters here, I'm hoping that high gas prices will slow down some of the speeders, who seem to cause most of the problems by tailgating, weaving, cutting off drivers, etc. Half the population of TX drives pickup trucks, so I know that $4 gas is killing them!
    .
  • avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    "I never said that.."

    True, that was my comment. I was wanting to see if I could get a reaction from folks. On the other hand, if you exceed the speed limit you are breaking the law. Someone who breaks the law is a criminal. And yes, speeding is generally considered to be a minor rule infraction when you are going just a few miles over the posted speed limit. People have a tendency to rationalize their infractions, but it still is an infraction.

    "Then you become a selfish elitist who thinks his own preferences are all that matters."

    Why wouldn't a speeder be considered selfish and elitist? What is the point of speeding? I think the speeder is the more selfish and elitist.

    I do not practice hypermiling. In general I go with traffic up to the speed limit, but I also have the right to go a few miles slower in the far right lane. If traffic is really light I sometimes go 5 to 10 mph less than the speed limit. But at the same token, I watch for people gaining on me. If I am on a two lane highway I travel within 5 mph of the limit and I'll move closer to the stripe on the right to allow the person behind me a better view of oncoming traffic. This is usually only an issue when a car is passing. Even when trucks are passing I still move over a foot or two to try and signal to them I know they will be passing.

    The advantage we have in this state is that traffic is light, very light compared to where many of you drive. The number of doorknob drivers is pretty minimal here. If you remove people from a highly stressed traffic environment they will behave rather civilized. Go figure. :shades:
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    If Las Vegas wants people to come from Disney land. Build their own MagLev. Don't waste tax payers money on such nonsense.

    Umm, if Las Vegas builds it, what do you think they'll build it WITH? The pot of gold sitting out in the desert? :shades: They'd use taxpayer money too. CSX is too busy running cargo and trying to figure out who actually bought their stock, so they aren't going to do it.

    I'm not too sure the MagLev is the best idea...an elevated diesel train-line would serve a similar purpose. They need to look at both the expense and energy expenditures of each project. It's also possible to simply build electrified track on the line and run a regular train on normal electricity. How much more/less electricity would a MagLev train require? I know there's less friction in that sort of design, but then you have power draw from the mag fields...
  • flash11flash11 Member Posts: 98
    ESX3 diesel electric car from Chrysler, 72mpg, nice looking too.
    I am sure once the Chrysler Jeep Wrangler diesel electric car takes off, they will offer several different body designs with the same propulsion unit system such as this ESX3. Interesting to see that the price tag mentioned for the ESX3 was $28000 and not $60000.
  • avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    Good news. AAA is reporting RUG at $4.005 (national average) this morning. I was worried there for a bit, I didn't think it would make it. What a relief, eh. Apparently that last minute news about oil jumping $11 dollars did the trick.

    And this morning I learned a new term, Anglo Disease.
    http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/4115#more

    In some actual good news. ;) Canada seems to be on schedule to increase their oil production from 1.32 mbd to 3.2 mbd by 2017. I'm not sure that will actually drive prices down in the next few years. The increase in production will probably be only 75% of what they project. I would also wager that the actual increase will be just enough to match production losses in Mexico and Venezuela.

    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/06/alberta-oil-san.html#more
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,245
    "...someone who breaks the law is a criminal..."

    A state trooper once told me "There are so many traffic and driving laws that you can't turn the key in your ignition without breaking a few of them." So as one criminal to another, I'll have to agree with your definition.

    "...I have the right to go a few miles slower in the right lane..."

    Agreed. Myself, I set my cruise control at about 62 and stay right as this gives me the best milage. 45 might be OK too if traffic was light and people could get around you.

    But when traffic is heavy, doing 45 causes a bottleneck and can lead to accidents.
    Even criminals deserve better than that.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    You know the interesting part of that Anglo disease description? They use the words "money" and "wealth" interchangeably. Problem is, they're not. Money is an exchange medium that can be exchanged FOR wealth. Wealth is an object with value...such as oil, gasoline, or bobble-head dolls. :shades: That lowers their credibility in my eyes, though they do have a few good points.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    If money can be exchanged for wealth then it is equal to wealth and is wealth.

    Wealth is an object with value

    By your own definition money is wealth as it has value, if it didn't have value you wouldn't be able to exchange it for other things of value.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Money is a representation, and it's variable. It is redeemable for wealth, but it's not wealth in and of itself. Unless you collect green pictures of dead presidents, money only has value in that it can be exchanged for something else.

    It would be better to say that money represents POTENTIAL value as wealth. But that potential is also variable, as we've all seen certain prices fluctuate. ;) If you have a gallon of gas, you have a gallon of gas. If you have $4, it MIGHT get you a gallon of gas...or 3/4 of a gallon...or 1 1/4 gallon. We measure wealth in dollar value, which is why things get confusing, because we're measuring a solid, real object with a non-constant that changes daily. :shades:

    Bottom line: gas doesn't change...a gallon is still a gallon. What changes is the amount of money needed to get someone to give that gallon up to you.

    Good example of the concept: You are alone on a desert island. You have a bag filled with $20 billion, and whatever happens to be on the island, and nothing else. Are you wealthy?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If you remove people from a highly stressed traffic environment they will behave rather civilized. Go figure.

    I think that is most everywhere that traffic is light. I know in our little town of Alpine people are very courteous. We think it is a traffic jam when there are 3 cars ahead of us at the stop signs. When I was in Victoria BC with a speed limit of about 55 MPH I found it most relaxing. I still refuse to force my will onto others by going slower than the NORMAL flow of traffic. Being discourteous to me is worse than going 5-10 MPH over the posted speed limit. Which I will repeat, it is common to see both CHP and the Sheriffs going faster than the speed limit, staying with the flow. Usually 5 MPH over the limit.

    In fact about once per year the CHP announce a Zero tolerance day on the freeways. One MPH past the speed limit can get you a ticket. I think it is to comply with some stupid Federal law.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Money is a representation, and it's variable.

    Everything is a representation and is a variable.

    money only has value in that it can be exchanged for something else.

    But nothing has any value unless it can be exchanged for something else.

    But that potential is also variable, as we've all seen certain prices fluctuate.

    The the value of everything changes, even with relationship of how much it can be exchanged for another thing of value.

    with a non-constant that changes daily.

    Everything is a non constant which changes daily. Talk to those who spent a small fortune on beanie babys a while back.

    gas doesn't change...a gallon is still a gallon.

    But the value of that gas changes, what you can exchange that gallon for in terms of corn of bricks or copper tubing or whatever changes.

    Using your example a dollar doesn't change it is still a dollar.

    Good example of the concept: You are alone on a desert island. You have a bag filled with $20 billion, and whatever happens to be on the island, and nothing else. Are you wealthy?

    Same senerio except you have a ton of gold or a 100 million barrels of oil or whatever you want to claim as "wealth" are you then wealthy?

    Per Websters wealth is defined as : "all property that has a money value or an exchangeable value b: all material objects that have economic utility; especially : the stock of useful goods having economic value in existence at any one time "

    That includes money.

    Either that or every econ professor I had was wrong.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    In fact about once per year the CHP announce a Zero tolerance day on the freeways. One MPH past the speed limit can get you a ticket.

    Great I deal and make it something like $20 per one MPH to fast and do it 24 hours a day every day. Maybe that will stop the jerks doing 90 in a 55.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

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