If Wayne can get 110 MPG with a Prius, why does he drive a Honda Accord and Ford Ranger? Could it be he has had it with the complexity and failure of the hybrids?
Could it be he has had it with the complexity and failure of the hybrids?
I haven't seen a lot pointing to some type of mechanical failure with hyrbids. My MIL's car has been rock solid as have been the other two 2005 Priuii I know. Of course, in this day and age, everything should be pretty reliable; I wouldn't tolerate a breakdown with a Pirus any more or less than with the Accord or the Legacy or the G35.
Do you realize the epidemic of danger and costs which can be attributed to overly fast drivers are a huge burden on us all?
I think you're obsessed by conserving things excessively; not to say some conservation isn't good.
And safety is all relative; it sounds like you're willing to give up things, to be a little safer?
There's nothing wrong with that; except you seem to want to tell the rest of us that we're wrong for not wanting such conservation and safety levels. Do you think the goal of life is just to live as long as possible, even if that means living a duller lifestyle?
Why do you feel we have to agree with and choose your lifestyle, and emulate your conservative viewpoints?
Not a single problem with about 2 1/2 years of overinflating my Segway, my bike, and my two hybrid cars.
Well I hope you don't have to emergency brake and a few feet make a difference, because overinflating your tires means a smaller contact-patch which reduces friction in braking, meaning you've increased your stopping-distance. Similarly overinflating will affect the handling of your car, which has wheel alignment based for a certain contact patch. You will not have the same cornering-grip. So for those who do drive their Prius at higher speeds than you, if they take the overinflation advice to get mpg, they could find themselves with little grip in a turn, or emergency maneuver.
In general everyone fixates on "Well I've not had a problem in my typical ho-hum driving (or bike riding) by doing ..." No, of course not. It is the rare, exceptional moment that you could use exceptional capabilities or attributes. It is those few seconds that occur once every 10 or 20 years of driving that may make the difference between a near accident and an accident, or a small accident and a fatal accident. You need to be prepared for the exception, not the normal!
In answer to: "Why do you feel we have to agree with and choose your lifestyle, and emulate your conservative viewpoints? "
I don't per se want anyone to choose my lifestyle. What I have learned in 44 years on Earf to me seems pretty logical and normal based on my personal experience. Everyone's life is different and their experiences are different. When I say "drive slower and be safer" I'm viewing it more as a "educated suggestion based on positive personal life experiences from that action myself" and can honestly say that I fully believe in my heart that this is the best thing for the majority of people to at least think about and consider.
It took my purchase and ownership of a hybrid car to convert my own wicked ways. I never cared much about saving fuel or driving intelligently before then. I had received many, MANY speeding tickets in my youthful days.
And I have made emergency ABS stops in both of my two hybrid cars, and neither of those times did the car appear to stop inordinately slowly based on the "less rubber on the road" theory.
I say that wasting fuel and tire rubber for the once or twice in a lifetime it MIGHT help you avoid a wreck is kinda silly.
It's all based on perspective I suppose, as are most things.
Yeah, I can barely keep up in here either. :shades:
Guess the next place I move to better not involve a valley so I can avoid inversions (you'd think Boise State's Smurf turf would tend towards shades of inversion brown).
I remember when Boise State played Iowa State (my alma mater) and ISU wore the hideous all-red uniforms. I thought my TV was broken it looked sooooooo bad.
Inversion layers can happen anywhere. They just happen more often in valleys because the geography helps them along.
The inversions in the Arctic are a sight to behold. Not much pollution. Buildings 30 miles away look like they are only a couple miles from you. Fairbanks is the place to avoid in the Winter. They have bad smog from so many cars that are left running all day while people are at work and shopping. Then an inversion makes it real bad. That is aside from the fact that it can stay at -40 Degrees for weeks at a time.
How much do you think it costs to leave a vehicle run for 8 hours, if gas is $4 per gallon?
I'd forward that question to Wayne if you want to know his opinion on hybrids
Haven't seen him post around here for a while. I was making an assumption on his view of hybrids. He had a great average with his Insight. You would think if he liked hybrids he would get another after he sold the Insight. Maybe he will shed some light on why he sold the Insight. It is only 8 years old. Less than half the life one should get out of a vehicle. If well cared for.
It took my purchase and ownership of a hybrid car to convert my own wicked ways.
This is what I don't get? Do you really think what you used to do was wicked, and driving a hybrid makes you morally good? Because if you want to consider using resources wicked, I can assure you that anyone who owns an automobile is using more than the average person on this Earf. Most people on the Earf don't have any automobile. And if you are using AC or heating your home with any fossil fuel source (direct or electrically generated) you again are using more resources than the average person on Earf. So I'm afraid you're going to have to live in a cave before I consider your resource usage "unwicked" relative to many others.
And I can pretty much guarantee you that I use less energy resources, and less an impact on the Earf than you do, though I drive a 6-cylinder ICE car with no special driving methods, and you hypermile in your hybrid.
"My Wicked Ways" = Driving hazardously fast, with no real gain other than increasing my speed for an accident, wasting fuel, wasting brake pads, endangering the health of myself, my passengers, and the other drivers on the road with me.
Yessirreee that's some Wicked Ways.
P.S. You REALLY don't want to get into a "who lives greener?" pee-ing contest with moi, my amigo.....trust me sight unseen on that one.......:)
Most reasonable people have a very strong desire to reach their destination safely. The fact that they may be driving faster than you is not an indication to the contrary. Based upon your posts I think the only conclusion you can draw is that they don't care as much about saving fuel as they do about saving time. I think that's a fair assumption. I know that when I'm driving 80 mph down an interstate I don't feel that I am in any way putting myself or my fellow motorists in peril. Yeah, I may be burning more fuel but that's fine with me, I'm the one paying for it. Your posts remind me a lot of ex-smokers or people that claim they've found god. Suddenly everyone needs to be onboard with your point of view.
I have a friend that had a subaru a while back that had a trip computer that calculated MPG. He has a picture of it showing some incredible high MPG number. He did just what you said, put in in neutral at the top of a long mountain road reset the trip computer and coasted down the mountain.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
There is a difference between driving at a reasonable speed and doing what some of the hyper drivers do. I have been behind some that do 0-60 times measured in days. A few months ago I got stuck behind some idiot trying to get the best MPG in his hybrid that took two blocks to get up to 30 MPH ( and this was in a 45 MPH zone) :mad:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Two words "speed bumps" there is one street in my town that has 12 in a mile
Don't get me started on that. Here is what you do...drive over one too fast, then sue the city for damages to your vehicle, then go back 2 months later and sue them again for lower back injuries. There is no place for "sleeping policemen" in urban planning. If they can't figure out how to do it with real traffic calming devices, changing the traffic pattern, or narrowing the road, they have it coming. Talk about a half - arsed way to do something.
You mean it said 110 MPG on the read-out. That's not "getting" 110 mpg--that's a moment in time being captured.
Your friend gets better than the national average of around 41-44 mpg for the Prius because of the stop and go driving. The more city driving you do, the BETTER the Prius mileage, and the more highway driving you do, the WORSE it is.
Which is why driving a Prius 82 mph all day long renders the car somewhat pointless as a Hybrid, but of course not as a fairly comfortable if somewhat dull automobile.
I love it when a dude has to be masculated to drive his car
I just spent 3 weeks in Europe (mostly Italy and Spain) and if you lived there you'd be laughed silly driving a behemoth American vehicle. When fuel here costs what it does there, you'll be riding your masculated Vespa, like half the population there. Amazing how many kids you can get on those things too. Amazing how they can sneak thru all the gridlocked vehicles standing still, as well. And amazing how you can park them anywhere. Also amazing how they can carry as much cargo in their motorcycle based "trucks" as we do in 90% of of quad cab hemi duellies.
America is living in a dream world. I've had as many Corvettes, GTOs, 4WD pickups and Harleys as most anyone in here, and I'm lusting after the vehicles I saw there that manufacturers won't supply here, because some dude says he won't be emasculated to drive them... and the real kicker is that he hasn't even seen them. I can't wait to see $5 a gallon gas so I finally buy the vehicles I've been wanting for 20 years.
No, in reality many Americans are living the dream. A dream that many people in the World including Spain and Italy would love to live. Europeans are forced into riding Vespas and tiny cars because they have more corruption in their government. More corruption requires higher taxes. So they pay twice as much for gas as we do. And a lot more for cars than we do. Don't get me wrong I would like the option of a high mileage vehicle. It is not the American driver, it is the US government that regulates what can and cannot be sold here. Give me a nice diesel SUV and I will make it last 20 years.
"And a four-door non-hybrid Civic CANNOT get 40 MPG at 70 mph. Sorry.
Are you kidding? Its even rated at 40 mpg. "
I'm pretty sure the EPA doesn't do it's testing at 70 mph, so the EPA numbers are not what you are going to get at 70. Wind resistance goes with the square of velocity, which means that when you go from 55 to 70 your drag increases by about 62%. It certainly isn't fair to claim a non-hybrid Civic gets its EPA mileage at 70 but a Prius gets more than 10 mpg below EPA at 70.
The old EPA numbers reflected a max. speed of 55 mph on a flat surface. That's how they rated the Honda Civic at 40 mpg highway. However, you should note that all these tests are done in a laboratory, with the car riding on a dynamometer. This eliminates variable such as temperature, wind, rain, etc.
Starting this year, the EPA increased the testing speeds and simulated a/c use, passing other cars, and other factors (by increasing dyno resistance), so all mpg ratings dropped, including the Civic's to 36 mpg highway.
That 36 mpg number comes from an average speed of 48 mph, with a highway cruise speed of 60 mph, and a brief passing speed of 80 mph. Here are the test details:
In the real world, it's difficult to achieve EPA numbers. All of nature's elements conspire against you.
A head wind or even a cross wind reduces mileage substantially. Also, rain cuts into mpg, as do hills (you always use more energy going up a hill than you save coming down it). Plus traffic factors such as slowing, then passing, eat up gasoline.
So, to achieve EPA numbers in real life, you have to drive pretty much like your grandma.
Looking at the EPA website they have it rated at 36 highway. Most of the people posting their economy at that website are posting sub 40 MPG so I will go out on a limb and say that if you are getting 40 MPG at 70 MPH you are lucky.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
So, to achieve EPA numbers in real life, you have to drive pretty much like your grandma.
Not to sure about that, the EPA estimated my daily drive at 30 MPG highway(they revised it to 27 to make it more in line with the new testing) but I can easily get 32-33 highway on the thing not driving like my grandma.
In city driving its a lot closer to the old EPA estiment and again thats not driving like a granny (but not driving overly aggressive either).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
In the real world, it's difficult to achieve EPA numbers. All of nature's elements conspire against you.
A head wind or even a cross wind reduces mileage substantially. Also, rain cuts into mpg, as do hills (you always use more energy going up a hill than you save coming down it). Plus traffic factors such as slowing, then passing, eat up gasoline.
So, to achieve EPA numbers in real life, you have to drive pretty much like your grandma.
Actually I find that to be totally untrue. If you drive like a schmck you get poor fuel economy and you earned it. If you allow proper following distance, avoid jack rabbit starts, and anticipate traffic conditions, its pretty easy. I have gotten 40 mpg at 70 in a Civic. I have beat the EPA estimates (the old ones) in every car I've owned, both mountainous California and flat Michigan. I think the new estimates are a farse to quiet the whinny people who drive too aggressively. This same thing came up on the midsized forum too. What a bunch of political BS, its just a number for comparison, like an index or like the treadware rating on tires. Its pretty much totally meaningless.
I think the new estimates are a farse to quiet the whinny people who drive too aggressively.
I don't recall the EPA estimates being an issue until the Hybrids came on the scene. They were so far removed from the EPA estimates that people were wanting to sue the automakers. So to appease that bunch they came up with a formula to change all the estimates. Unless someone has proof that they went back and tested all the older cars with the new test procedure. Also remember 85% of the vehicles are tested by the manufacturers, NOT the EPA. It is on the honor system :confuse:
It's more complicated than that. Europeans have different priorities than Americans, and this affects what they drive. Believe me, they don't all want to be like us. For one thing, they tend not to buy things they can't afford. Americans go into hock and then point to their unpaid for pile of possessions and say "See how well we live?"
A tricky business, this.
Or putting it another way. If we put Americans on the same credit diet as Europeans are on (that is, if they both were in debt in the same proportions relative to their paychecks), you would probably see smaller and more efficient cars on American roads.
Just a speculation but an interesting one I think. Loose credit makes our eyes bigger, and our cars.
The best thing the IRS did for me is disallow CC interest as a write-off. I justified a large debt with using the deduction from my income tax. I know that is stupid. As soon as I could pay off all the cards I quit charging more than I could pay off each month. That includes buying a car on time. I refuse to buy anything except real estate on credit. I think that is more in line with many Europeans. At least the ones I have met.
I just spent 3 weeks in Europe (mostly Italy and Spain) and if you lived there you'd be laughed silly driving a behemoth American vehicle.
I like small cars too, as well as Vettes, and muscle cars. I like interesting styling, sporty and sports cars. I like luxury cars as long as they don't handle like boats. What I don't like are cars that are dull, or underpowered for their size, and have relatively poor overall performance.
The Prius and HCH are both underpowered, making sacrifices in many performance areas to overcompensate to achieve high mpg. Sort of like an athlete who wants to run a marathon and will never pick up a weight - a specialized athlete, but not a good overall athlete.
The other hybrids I see on the market are more practical, though my personal preference would be to wait for a diesel, and pay the premium for that and get the similar benefits.
As far as little cars go - great bring them on. They look like fun cars - maybe the Big 2.5 could make their version of the Mini Cooper (S preferred). Their 2.0 liter turbo from the Solstice would be nice in a car like that. That 's rated for about 30mpg. Maybe we could get a turbo diesel engine in that size-range?! Give me a red leather interior, a nice throaty exhaust, and a 500+W surround system.
I don't live in a 28 room mansion and own a personal jet. I think we are far from riding in the same boat. I find this whole concept of conserving energy to be lopsided. Whether you like the idea or not, environmentalism has become political. It is one of the things that has driven a wedge in this country.
You have people like Al Gore going around the World saying what a poor environmental President GW Bush is. Then big Al flies home to his mega mansion. With a carbon footprint as big as a lot of towns. When Bush leaves the White house and heads to his personal home in Crawford, it is a picture of conservation. So who is the hypocrite?
We have people wailing that if we don't all buy smaller cars the ocean will rise up and swallow NYC. I say no big loss.
The future of humanity will be what it will be. Our satellite broadcasts of people in Hollywood living in huge mansions lights the flames of envy for people in poor countries. They are not wanting to keep living in a mud hut without electricity, phone, car and a TV. That adds up to more burning of fossil fuel. When and if it runs out we will all die. Simple as that. I don't plan to drive a Yugo to slow down the inevitable.
It is the lack of understanding of the inter-relationship of EVERYTHING on earth that bedevils mankind and causes his suffering, IMO!
So back to ground here, whatever decision we make affects other people. I'm not really interested in what THEY are doing, I'm interested in what I am doing. I can only do my part and pull my weight.
I don't want to waste gas, so I do things like "car-less Tuesdays", wherein I don't use the car for that day. Do I then drive more the other 6 days to make it up? No, I walk, ride the bike or stave off an impulse until I can combine two trips in one the following day.
Does my neighbor do this? I don't know and I don't care if he doesn't.
"I don't believe the former VP and nobel laureate owns a jet. His mansion just got LEED certification (2nd tier iirc)."
It doesn't really matter whether Gore's name is on the title of the Gulfstream jet he flies all over the place. Nor does it matter whether his 20,000 square foot mansion has double-paned windows.
He's telling all of us to lower our standard of living to "save the planet," while he burns hundreds of gallons of jet fuel every trip he makes to do it. He's living in 20,000 sq. ft., while telling all of us to reduce our consumption. He's driving around in a fleet of SUVs while telling all of us to buy economy cars.
See, that's how socialists operate. They preach the virtue of a soviet standard of living, while they enjoy the lifestyle of the rich and famous.
I don't know if he owns a private jet but he does a lot of flying around in them driving in gas guzzling limos telling people to conserve. Then when anyone questions his lifestyle it gets defended with "he bought carbon offsets". Gee guess who owns a company that trades in carbon offsets.
Gore is a hypocrite. Now Ed Bagley (SP?) while I may not wholly agree with what he says he walks his talk.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
According to the AP, Gore has received criticism for his previous average bill of $1,206 a month last year. The home also ran on an average of 16,000 kilowatt hours a month, with the typical Nashville home coming in at only 1,300.
Records showed that the renovations to the house have decreased the summer electrical consumption by 11 percent, compared to the numbers last year.
Cutting 11% of 16,000 KWHs means Gore is using about 14,240 KWHs Per Month. My last months SDG&E bill shows I used 871 KWH in my modest 3000 Sq Foot ranch style home. My biggest bill during the heat wave this last Summer was 1220 KWH. Sounds like these environmental groups can be bought off if you have a Nobel prize and $100 million in the bank. I don't have any solar cells on my roof or maybe I could get a commendation from that outfit.
The house garnered praise from the U.S. Green Building Council for being one of the country's most environmentally-friendly homes.
PS Gore uses 16 times more electricity than I do. Does that mean I am conserving enough to justify driving an SUV 5000 miles per year? I hope so because that is what I am going to do. One flight in a Gulfstream is more carbon than I produce in a year. And some people wonder why there is such a divide on this issue in America.
My biggest bill during the heat wave this last Summer was 1220 KWH.
I don't know how many KWh I use per month, but my electric bill hasn't been above $25/month, and our rate is about $0.10/KWh. There are taxes and other lines on my bill so I can't say exactly what my KWh are. I live 4 miles from work, and bike occasionally in the summer. And I haven't had a whole bunch of kids who will then go on to use a whole bunch of energy. I drive an ICE car, and yes I find it ridiculous and pompous when someone who drives a hybrid is holier-than-thou, and may use 3X or 4X the amount of energy I do. It's fine if you do that amount of energy, it's your money and you certainly have the right to use it as you wish.
If gasoline, oil, and electric go way up in the years ahead, it will not affect my driving or lifestyle much. What it have more affect on I believe is overall inflation (food, services), and my investments. And if global warming doesn't speed-up, I'm certainly not going to live anywhere it snows? Costa Rica anyone?
>According to the AP, Gore has received criticism for his previous average bill of $1,206 a month last year. The home also ran on an average of 16,000 kilowatt hours a month, with the typical Nashville home coming in at only 1,300.
Records showed that the renovations to the house have decreased the summer electrical consumption by 11 percent, compared to the numbers last year.
At least Al is making his house more energy efficient. So it's better than it was.
Which brings up back to the point of this topic. What are you going to do when gas hits $4 a gallon? (and yeah, doing nothing is an option for many of you).
I've bought a lot of caulk and insulation over the years myself, but let's try to focus on the personal transport part. We all know about keeping the tires inflated and removing excess junk from our trunks. Then there's hypermiling and combining errands and car less Tuesdays.
Time for a laundry list for some other options (not to mention that whole hybrid and alternative fuel thing)?
You got me wondering so I took out my electric bill. Last months was 431kWh's the highest for the last year was about 825 kWh's and I used less that 6,000 over the last year. Gore must be leaving the lights on when he flys around the country.
BTW its 2,250 square feet.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I know mine has. 10 years ago I was driving a Grand Caravan, 7.5 years ago we got rid of it and got an Elantra station wagon (much better MPG) and now I am living much closer to work. I am using much less gas now.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
That is a very good point. When we took delivery of our new Sequoia it had the little tire inflation alarm lit. The tires looked fine though they were not all equal and only about 31 PSI. So I took it back to the dealer and asked them to take care of the alarm and inflate all my tires to 36 PSI. I was hoping to save a little gas. They got the alarm out. Next morning I checked the tire pressure and they were all set at 32 PSI.
My question is: How do you get around this new mandatory worthless device and inflate your tires to the desired level?
Comments
I haven't seen a lot pointing to some type of mechanical failure with hyrbids. My MIL's car has been rock solid as have been the other two 2005 Priuii I know. Of course, in this day and age, everything should be pretty reliable; I wouldn't tolerate a breakdown with a Pirus any more or less than with the Accord or the Legacy or the G35.
I think you're obsessed by conserving things excessively; not to say some conservation isn't good.
And safety is all relative; it sounds like you're willing to give up things, to be a little safer?
There's nothing wrong with that; except you seem to want to tell the rest of us that we're wrong for not wanting such conservation and safety levels. Do you think the goal of life is just to live as long as possible, even if that means living a duller lifestyle?
Why do you feel we have to agree with and choose your lifestyle, and emulate your conservative viewpoints?
Not a single problem with about 2 1/2 years of overinflating my Segway, my bike, and my two hybrid cars.
Well I hope you don't have to emergency brake and a few feet make a difference, because overinflating your tires means a smaller contact-patch which reduces friction in braking, meaning you've increased your stopping-distance. Similarly overinflating will affect the handling of your car, which has wheel alignment based for a certain contact patch. You will not have the same cornering-grip. So for those who do drive their Prius at higher speeds than you, if they take the overinflation advice to get mpg, they could find themselves with little grip in a turn, or emergency maneuver.
In general everyone fixates on "Well I've not had a problem in my typical ho-hum driving (or bike riding) by doing ..." No, of course not. It is the rare, exceptional moment that you could use exceptional capabilities or attributes. It is those few seconds that occur once every 10 or 20 years of driving that may make the difference between a near accident and an accident, or a small accident and a fatal accident. You need to be prepared for the exception, not the normal!
I don't per se want anyone to choose my lifestyle. What I have learned in 44 years on Earf to me seems pretty logical and normal based on my personal experience. Everyone's life is different and their experiences are different. When I say "drive slower and be safer" I'm viewing it more as a "educated suggestion based on positive personal life experiences from that action myself" and can honestly say that I fully believe in my heart that this is the best thing for the majority of people to at least think about and consider.
It took my purchase and ownership of a hybrid car to convert my own wicked ways. I never cared much about saving fuel or driving intelligently before then. I had received many, MANY speeding tickets in my youthful days.
And I have made emergency ABS stops in both of my two hybrid cars, and neither of those times did the car appear to stop inordinately slowly based on the "less rubber on the road" theory.
I say that wasting fuel and tire rubber for the once or twice in a lifetime it MIGHT help you avoid a wreck is kinda silly.
It's all based on perspective I suppose, as are most things.
Guess the next place I move to better not involve a valley so I can avoid inversions (you'd think Boise State's Smurf turf would tend towards shades of inversion brown).
Inversion layers can happen anywhere. They just happen more often in valleys because the geography helps them along.
How much do you think it costs to leave a vehicle run for 8 hours, if gas is $4 per gallon?
My guess is 2-5 gallons, depending on the vehicle, which would mean $8-$20?
Haven't seen him post around here for a while. I was making an assumption on his view of hybrids. He had a great average with his Insight. You would think if he liked hybrids he would get another after he sold the Insight. Maybe he will shed some light on why he sold the Insight. It is only 8 years old. Less than half the life one should get out of a vehicle. If well cared for.
This is what I don't get? Do you really think what you used to do was wicked, and driving a hybrid makes you morally good? Because if you want to consider using resources wicked, I can assure you that anyone who owns an automobile is using more than the average person on this Earf. Most people on the Earf don't have any automobile. And if you are using AC or heating your home with any fossil fuel source (direct or electrically generated) you again are using more resources than the average person on Earf. So I'm afraid you're going to have to live in a cave before I consider your resource usage "unwicked" relative to many others.
And I can pretty much guarantee you that I use less energy resources, and less an impact on the Earf than you do, though I drive a 6-cylinder ICE car with no special driving methods, and you hypermile in your hybrid.
Yessirreee that's some Wicked Ways.
P.S. You REALLY don't want to get into a "who lives greener?" pee-ing contest with moi, my amigo.....trust me sight unseen on that one.......:)
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Two words "speed bumps" there is one street in my town that has 12 in a mile.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Don't get me started on that. Here is what you do...drive over one too fast, then sue the city for damages to your vehicle, then go back 2 months later and sue them again for lower back injuries.
There is no place for "sleeping policemen" in urban planning. If they can't figure out how to do it with real traffic calming devices, changing the traffic pattern, or narrowing the road, they have it coming.
Talk about a half - arsed way to do something.
Ask me how I really feel about it eh lol :sick:
Actually the Bible does say to submit to civil authorities.
The Bible does tell us to drive a Honda in the temple.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Your friend gets better than the national average of around 41-44 mpg for the Prius because of the stop and go driving. The more city driving you do, the BETTER the Prius mileage, and the more highway driving you do, the WORSE it is.
Which is why driving a Prius 82 mph all day long renders the car somewhat pointless as a Hybrid, but of course not as a fairly comfortable if somewhat dull automobile.
I just spent 3 weeks in Europe (mostly Italy and Spain) and if you lived there you'd be laughed silly driving a behemoth American vehicle. When fuel here costs what it does there, you'll be riding your masculated Vespa, like half the population there. Amazing how many kids you can get on those things too. Amazing how they can sneak thru all the gridlocked vehicles standing still, as well. And amazing how you can park them anywhere. Also amazing how they can carry as much cargo in their motorcycle based "trucks" as we do in 90% of of quad cab hemi duellies.
America is living in a dream world. I've had as many Corvettes, GTOs, 4WD pickups and Harleys as most anyone in here, and I'm lusting after the vehicles I saw there that manufacturers won't supply here, because some dude says he won't be emasculated to drive them... and the real kicker is that he hasn't even seen them. I can't wait to see $5 a gallon gas so I finally buy the vehicles I've been wanting for 20 years.
No, in reality many Americans are living the dream. A dream that many people in the World including Spain and Italy would love to live. Europeans are forced into riding Vespas and tiny cars because they have more corruption in their government. More corruption requires higher taxes. So they pay twice as much for gas as we do. And a lot more for cars than we do. Don't get me wrong I would like the option of a high mileage vehicle. It is not the American driver, it is the US government that regulates what can and cannot be sold here. Give me a nice diesel SUV and I will make it last 20 years.
Are you kidding? Its even rated at 40 mpg. "
I'm pretty sure the EPA doesn't do it's testing at 70 mph, so the EPA numbers are not what you are going to get at 70. Wind resistance goes with the square of velocity, which means that when you go from 55 to 70 your drag increases by about 62%. It certainly isn't fair to claim a non-hybrid Civic gets its EPA mileage at 70 but a Prius gets more than 10 mpg below EPA at 70.
Starting this year, the EPA increased the testing speeds and simulated a/c use, passing other cars, and other factors (by increasing dyno resistance), so all mpg ratings dropped, including the Civic's to 36 mpg highway.
That 36 mpg number comes from an average speed of 48 mph, with a highway cruise speed of 60 mph, and a brief passing speed of 80 mph. Here are the test details:
http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml
In the real world, it's difficult to achieve EPA numbers. All of nature's elements conspire against you.
A head wind or even a cross wind reduces mileage substantially. Also, rain cuts into mpg, as do hills (you always use more energy going up a hill than you save coming down it). Plus traffic factors such as slowing, then passing, eat up gasoline.
So, to achieve EPA numbers in real life, you have to drive pretty much like your grandma.
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Looking at the EPA website they have it rated at 36 highway. Most of the people posting their economy at that website are posting sub 40 MPG so I will go out on a limb and say that if you are getting 40 MPG at 70 MPH you are lucky.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Not to sure about that, the EPA estimated my daily drive at 30 MPG highway(they revised it to 27 to make it more in line with the new testing) but I can easily get 32-33 highway on the thing not driving like my grandma.
In city driving its a lot closer to the old EPA estiment and again thats not driving like a granny (but not driving overly aggressive either).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
A head wind or even a cross wind reduces mileage substantially. Also, rain cuts into mpg, as do hills (you always use more energy going up a hill than you save coming down it). Plus traffic factors such as slowing, then passing, eat up gasoline.
So, to achieve EPA numbers in real life, you have to drive pretty much like your grandma.
Actually I find that to be totally untrue. If you drive like a schmck you get poor fuel economy and you earned it. If you allow proper following distance, avoid jack rabbit starts, and anticipate traffic conditions, its pretty easy. I have gotten 40 mpg at 70 in a Civic. I have beat the EPA estimates (the old ones) in every car I've owned, both mountainous California and flat Michigan.
I think the new estimates are a farse to quiet the whinny people who drive too aggressively. This same thing came up on the midsized forum too. What a bunch of political BS, its just a number for comparison, like an index or like the treadware rating on tires. Its pretty much totally meaningless.
I don't recall the EPA estimates being an issue until the Hybrids came on the scene. They were so far removed from the EPA estimates that people were wanting to sue the automakers. So to appease that bunch they came up with a formula to change all the estimates. Unless someone has proof that they went back and tested all the older cars with the new test procedure. Also remember 85% of the vehicles are tested by the manufacturers, NOT the EPA. It is on the honor system :confuse:
A tricky business, this.
Or putting it another way. If we put Americans on the same credit diet as Europeans are on (that is, if they both were in debt in the same proportions relative to their paychecks), you would probably see smaller and more efficient cars on American roads.
Just a speculation but an interesting one I think. Loose credit makes our eyes bigger, and our cars.
The best thing the IRS did for me is disallow CC interest as a write-off. I justified a large debt with using the deduction from my income tax. I know that is stupid. As soon as I could pay off all the cards I quit charging more than I could pay off each month. That includes buying a car on time. I refuse to buy anything except real estate on credit. I think that is more in line with many Europeans. At least the ones I have met.
Even mortgages aren't so easy to get in Europe. You jump through a lot of hoops.
I like small cars too, as well as Vettes, and muscle cars. I like interesting styling, sporty and sports cars. I like luxury cars as long as they don't handle like boats. What I don't like are cars that are dull, or underpowered for their size, and have relatively poor overall performance.
The Prius and HCH are both underpowered, making sacrifices in many performance areas to overcompensate to achieve high mpg. Sort of like an athlete who wants to run a marathon and will never pick up a weight - a specialized athlete, but not a good overall athlete.
The other hybrids I see on the market are more practical, though my personal preference would be to wait for a diesel, and pay the premium for that and get the similar benefits.
As far as little cars go - great bring them on. They look like fun cars - maybe the Big 2.5 could make their version of the Mini Cooper (S preferred). Their 2.0 liter turbo from the Solstice would be nice in a car like that. That 's rated for about 30mpg. Maybe we could get a turbo diesel engine in that size-range?!
Give me a red leather interior, a nice throaty exhaust, and a 500+W surround system.
Here is a parody for those that want em smaller. turn up the sound and enjoy.
In a Yugo
I don't live in a 28 room mansion and own a personal jet. I think we are far from riding in the same boat. I find this whole concept of conserving energy to be lopsided. Whether you like the idea or not, environmentalism has become political. It is one of the things that has driven a wedge in this country.
You have people like Al Gore going around the World saying what a poor environmental President GW Bush is. Then big Al flies home to his mega mansion. With a carbon footprint as big as a lot of towns. When Bush leaves the White house and heads to his personal home in Crawford, it is a picture of conservation. So who is the hypocrite?
We have people wailing that if we don't all buy smaller cars the ocean will rise up and swallow NYC. I say no big loss.
The future of humanity will be what it will be. Our satellite broadcasts of people in Hollywood living in huge mansions lights the flames of envy for people in poor countries. They are not wanting to keep living in a mud hut without electricity, phone, car and a TV. That adds up to more burning of fossil fuel. When and if it runs out we will all die. Simple as that. I don't plan to drive a Yugo to slow down the inevitable.
At least neither is running for office (currently, lol).
So back to ground here, whatever decision we make affects other people. I'm not really interested in what THEY are doing, I'm interested in what I am doing. I can only do my part and pull my weight.
I don't want to waste gas, so I do things like "car-less Tuesdays", wherein I don't use the car for that day. Do I then drive more the other 6 days to make it up? No, I walk, ride the bike or stave off an impulse until I can combine two trips in one the following day.
Does my neighbor do this? I don't know and I don't care if he doesn't.
It doesn't really matter whether Gore's name is on the title of the Gulfstream jet he flies all over the place. Nor does it matter whether his 20,000 square foot mansion has double-paned windows.
He's telling all of us to lower our standard of living to "save the planet," while he burns hundreds of gallons of jet fuel every trip he makes to do it. He's living in 20,000 sq. ft., while telling all of us to reduce our consumption. He's driving around in a fleet of SUVs while telling all of us to buy economy cars.
See, that's how socialists operate. They preach the virtue of a soviet standard of living, while they enjoy the lifestyle of the rich and famous.
Hypocrisy and credibility don't mix.
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Gore is a hypocrite. Now Ed Bagley (SP?) while I may not wholly agree with what he says he walks his talk.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
From your link:
According to the AP, Gore has received criticism for his previous average bill of $1,206 a month last year. The home also ran on an average of 16,000 kilowatt hours a month, with the typical Nashville home coming in at only 1,300.
Records showed that the renovations to the house have decreased the summer electrical consumption by 11 percent, compared to the numbers last year.
Cutting 11% of 16,000 KWHs means Gore is using about 14,240 KWHs Per Month. My last months SDG&E bill shows I used 871 KWH in my modest 3000 Sq Foot ranch style home. My biggest bill during the heat wave this last Summer was 1220 KWH. Sounds like these environmental groups can be bought off if you have a Nobel prize and $100 million in the bank. I don't have any solar cells on my roof or maybe I could get a commendation from that outfit.
The house garnered praise from the U.S. Green Building Council for being one of the country's most environmentally-friendly homes.
PS
Gore uses 16 times more electricity than I do. Does that mean I am conserving enough to justify driving an SUV 5000 miles per year? I hope so because that is what I am going to do. One flight in a Gulfstream is more carbon than I produce in a year. And some people wonder why there is such a divide on this issue in America.
My biggest bill during the heat wave this last Summer was 1220 KWH.
I don't know how many KWh I use per month, but my electric bill hasn't been above $25/month, and our rate is about $0.10/KWh. There are taxes and other lines on my bill so I can't say exactly what my KWh are. I live 4 miles from work, and bike occasionally in the summer. And I haven't had a whole bunch of kids who will then go on to use a whole bunch of energy. I drive an ICE car, and yes I find it ridiculous and pompous when someone who drives a hybrid is holier-than-thou, and may use 3X or 4X the amount of energy I do. It's fine if you do that amount of energy, it's your money and you certainly have the right to use it as you wish.
If gasoline, oil, and electric go way up in the years ahead, it will not affect my driving or lifestyle much. What it have more affect on I believe is overall inflation (food, services), and my investments. And if global warming doesn't speed-up, I'm certainly not going to live anywhere it snows? Costa Rica anyone?
And then yes we have Al Gore.
Records showed that the renovations to the house have decreased the summer electrical consumption by 11 percent, compared to the numbers last year.
What about other homes? Boats. Motor homes?
What about winter usage values for his "home"?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Which brings up back to the point of this topic. What are you going to do when gas hits $4 a gallon? (and yeah, doing nothing is an option for many of you).
I've bought a lot of caulk and insulation over the years myself, but let's try to focus on the personal transport part. We all know about keeping the tires inflated and removing excess junk from our trunks. Then there's hypermiling and combining errands and car less Tuesdays.
Time for a laundry list for some other options (not to mention that whole hybrid and alternative fuel thing)?
BTW its 2,250 square feet.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
That is a very good point. When we took delivery of our new Sequoia it had the little tire inflation alarm lit. The tires looked fine though they were not all equal and only about 31 PSI. So I took it back to the dealer and asked them to take care of the alarm and inflate all my tires to 36 PSI. I was hoping to save a little gas. They got the alarm out. Next morning I checked the tire pressure and they were all set at 32 PSI.
My question is: How do you get around this new mandatory worthless device and inflate your tires to the desired level?