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I don't know if they are identical or not either, but in the case of the old 2.3, the mpg rating was essentially the same in the Mazda6 and Ford Fusion.
The Ford press release did ascribe "up to a 10 percent fuel economy improvement" to the new 6 speed trans.
Because not everyone shares the same opinion as you. While you may like the Passat, others differ.
The Passat is pretty good, but I'd imagine the price range is WAY out there for many of the midsize demographic. For the price of a nicely equipped Passat, you could step into something like an Infiniti G35, or a Hyundai Genesis.
Your selling points are the warranty and "German engineering". Having a longer warranty doesn't make the car any better, especially considering VW has always been on the tail-end of the quality/reliability ratings. And, "German engineering" is over-rated
Well, because the new Passat looks like a German Toyota Corolla (where the old one was quite handsome). Because a longer warranty on a less reliable car is only valuable if you are getting rid of the less reliable car before the warranty runs out.
And yes, I've owned Mazdas, VWs, and Audis.
*Rushes in to sit down* Sorry I'm late!
Let's see, where to start...
The Mazda6 "loose and cheap"? Right... The Mazda6 is THE best handling midsize sedan in this price range, period. I've driven the Accord, Altima, and the Passat, and they don't even come close to what the 1st-gen 6 was capable of. That's why I bought one.
Yes, the Fulan and the 6 share platforms, that's it. The Fusion does handle well, but it's still entirely different from a 6.
It seems that dm1212 has had a bad taste left by Ford, but pretty much everybody else on this board, as well as just about every other auto enthusiast and critic, thinks differently. And dm, a word of advice: I wouldn't even THINK about bashing anyone else about their information, since aviboy97 actually works in the automotive business, and there are plenty of others that have been here longer than you, will still be here after you're gone, and have ACTUALLY done their homework, including actual test-drives. Believe me, they know what they're talking about.
I'm talking about the 2008 models..
Doesn't change a thing.
Why would you buy any of them? Why wouldn't you buy a Passat with 4 years/50,000 mile warranty, and German engineering. I would never own a non-german made car.
"German engineering"? You're obviously still young into your German relationship. As for the Passat, they do look great, and use good-quality materials for the interior, but they're too expensive for this class. Plus, have you ever paid for replacement parts or service for a VW? Umm, not cheap, at all.
All VW's currently made are good looking, even their new minivan. The passat is a great looking, sporty, and semi-reliable sedan. The interior on a loaded Passat is nicer then the base 528i. I drive a 2005 Audi A6, and no auto-maker comes close to the quality of the interior of an Audi.
Umm, it had better, since the A6 is $25K OR MORE than any other car listed on the right. And yes, the VW Caravan/Town & Country is pretty nice, FOR A CHRYSLER!!
51k on my car, no problems besides the sun-roof and rear cup-holders. Handling is superb, especially in snow,
Your point? My '04 Mazda6 has 72K miles with just about every option, and I've had ONE issue, a faulty gas cap, replaced under warranty. And handling IMO is just as good, since they're both FWD, while saving $$$$ with both the purchase and service/parts.
And just as you've been bitten by Ford, I've been bitten by VW. Take the 1999 and 2000 Golfs that I used to drive for my part-time job, both diesels. Both worked well for the first 50-60K miles, then things went south. The '99 had a ton of electrical issues, with lights blowing out, gauges and lights working/not working, problems with the anti-theft, a radio that ate cassettes, etc. To boot, the diesel engine, supposedly "indestructible", went through 3 turbos, two sets of seals, and three starters. It was finally junked after the second transmission went, at ONLY 135K MILES, less than half the mileage that a quality-built diesel should last. The '00? Not much different. Electrical system failures constantly, two transmissions, two turbos, etc. When it was totaled with 115K miles on it, my boss got much more than it was worth, since it had a fuel system issue that would've cost $5K to repair.
VW and "reliable" don't belong in the same sentence. And I'm FAR from the only person that thinks this, since pretty much EVERY quality/reliability survey has rated VW at or near the bottom over the past 15 years, with good reason. And for the record, Audi wasn't doing very well for a long time either, until the past couple of years...
Again, dm, if you hate Ford, fine. But don't throw "facts" around when just about everything else I've read, seen, and experience first-hand says otherwise.
Wow. Now that's impressive. This is not your grandfather's Ford.
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081030/OPINION03/8103003- 58/1148/AUTO01
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz1W3Sda4v0
The more and more I look at the new Fusion, the more and more I'm starting NOT to like it. From the press release, it seems as if they are actually proactive in advancing their technology, something they did not do for years. From what I see, I'm going out on a limb here, I will say that it's only a matter of time before Ford turns it's self around.
The spy shots of the new Fusion look a lot better than that press photo, so hold that judgement for 3 weeks until we get better photos. I think it's a big improvement over the current design.
The current Fusion interior isn't bad with the piano black trim. The other trims are rather pedestrian, but functional. The new center stack and gauges should help a lot.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/mercury-milan-hybrid.html
Why is Ford so dumb to ride around with no camo and still want to wait till mid November to show us what it looks like....
That's true. But "hybridizing" a vehicle fundamentally alters many of its driving characteristics:
Regenerative braking systems have a very different feel from conventional systems.
Hybrids carry more weight, and in different places. This affects handling, usually negatively.Accessories such as power steering are more likely to be electrically driven in a hybrid, and the feel can be very different from hydraulic power steering. Of course, the severity of the difference varies, and many non-hybrids are now using electric power steering too, but it may still be a factor in the driving experience.
Based on these characteristics, I would be reluctant to assume that the Fusion Hybrid will automatically share the positive characteristics I associate with the conventionally-powered Fusion.
So was I. I just happened to click reply on your post instead of going back.
The A6 is AWD, if thats what your talking about. Its almost IMPOSSIBLE to find an A6 in FWD, because with the FWD option you can't have the premimum package. The FWD Fusion is a rarity to find now considering Ford actually made an AWD option.
ONLY 135K MILES, less than half the mileage that a quality-built diesel should last.
Hmm, your telling me a Ford Excursion would last 135k miles? Not a chance in the world.
VW and "reliable" don't belong in the same sentence. And I'm FAR from the only person that thinks this, since pretty much EVERY quality/reliability survey has rated VW at or near the bottom over the past 15 years, with good reason. And for the record, Audi wasn't doing very well for a long time either, until the past couple of years...
Show me where Ford was about two-three years ago, 20 bucks says they are below VW.
Umm, it had better, since the A6 is $25K OR MORE than any other car listed on the right. And yes, the VW Caravan/Town & Country is pretty nice, FOR A CHRYSLER!!
You just ruinned your argument about the Fusion and Mazda 6. Like the Fusion and Mazda 6, The Routan and Town and Country share the same chassis.
"German engineering"? You're obviously still young into your German relationship. As for the Passat, they do look great, and use good-quality materials for the interior, but they're too expensive for this class. Plus, have you ever paid for replacement parts or service for a VW? Umm, not cheap, at all.
Yes, I have. I bought my daughter a 2007 Jetta Wulfsberg Edition, and she wrecked it. A new fender was only $300.00.
My point is Ford is junk, they are in such desperate ways they had to make a Focus "Coupe" to try and boost their sales. IMO, it looks like a Porta-Potty on Wheels.
The Caravan and Routan share a whole hell of a lot more then the Fusion and Mazda6. With the arrival of the 2010 Fusion and 2009 Mazda6, they are more like 3rd cousins twice removed....
Here is where the Routan / Caravan are similar and the Fusion and Mazda6 are not.
Routan / Caravan are built on the same production line at Windsor Assembly in Windsor, Ontario. Engines available are two V6 engines from Chrysler's powertrain stable: the 3.8 L V6 producing 197 hp and 230 lb·ft, and the 4.0 L V6 producing 251 hp and 259 lb·ft. Both engines are teamed to Chrysler's 62TE six-speed automatic transaxle with manual shift capability. The body design is similar overall to the Chrysler vans, though Volkswagen designers gave the Routan a unique front- and rear-end appearance to differentiate the van from its Chrysler siblings and bring it in to the Volkswagen family. The interior is all VW as well.
Mazda6 is built at AAI in Flat Rock, MI and the Fusion is built in Mexico. They have never shared any body panels, transmissions, suspension, or ECU's. The only sharing that went on was the basic platform (which really does not mean much) and engine design. The Ford 2.3 and new 2.5 are Mazda designs, and the old 3.0L was a Ford, and the new 3.7L uses the Ford block design only. All internals, VV-T, heads, cams, ECU are all Mazda designed and built in Japan.
I'd recommend a Fusion though, for the money it's a great sedan.
Sounds like Ford had to pay Toyota off, because they copied their work.
Whether that be the case, or not, we could speculate such a thing.
(just as easily as we could speculate: "Sounds like this company paid-off that company," etc)
Can we please stop spreading lies?
Bartering is a form of payment. Ford paid for licensing Toyota's hybrid patents by exchanging patents of their own. I really don't see why it matters whether Ford paid cash for the licenses, or paid with a swap of patents.
In the process of comparing mainstream midsize sedans and their characteristics, it doesn't matter at all (to me). I believe we have a News and Views section, or something of that sort, where that would be a great topic to kick around.
What is next on the mid-sized sedans docket?
Some things to chew on...
Honda's V6 Sedan gets re-rated at 271 hp, 254 lb-ft. up from 268 hp/248 lb-ft.
Toyota has a new 4-cylinder engine to replace the current 2.4L unit in the Camry when the 2010 model debuts. The new 2.5L unit that produces 179 HP at 6,000 RPM, along with 172 lb.-ft. of torque at 4,000 RPM in the RAV4.
The Altima gets new plastic wheelcovers for low-end 2009 models.
Volkswagen discontinues the 3.6L Passat, leaving the V6 to go in the new Passat CC. The Passat will use the 2.0L Turbo model, and according to VW.com, starts at $28,300.
I'm sure many people knew of a lot of these changes, but I thought I'd list them as conversation points.
Would have been nice if they had added something useful, like standard ESC, to the Altima while they were at it.
It looks like the center of attention for CY 2009 for mid-sizers is Ford/Mazda--the refresh to the 2009 Optima notwithstanding. Since the Prius is "officially" mid-sized (at least by the EPA), that is another interesting development for CY 2009--the next-gen 2010 Prius due out in early 2009.
In other news, the Camry gets no new changes for '09, and thus, it still sucks. :P
...not for '09 Camry, it's been out since Feb. of this year. :surprise:
has any one used the American Express buying service that guarantees to save buyers an average of $750 on a new car purchase? I am not sure if that savings is off MSRP or the average transaction price.
The promotion came in the mail and it does not show how much the service cost but the average savings seems low. Perhaps most buyers could do better on their own, but then again, there are buyers who hate to haggle.
Isn't copying it, then paying for it, amount to the same thing?
http://www.kia.com/optima/optima-features.php