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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I can't recall ever seeing such extensive changes on a car that's just over 3 years old. Kudos to Ford, especially on the fuel economy and hybrid models.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Considering how quickly this segment raises the bar, Ford had to do something to stay competitive. The power/economy ratio was something that needed attention. Any numbers out yet for this?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    2.5L I4 - 175 hp (give or take) - 33 mpg highway
    2.5L I4 Hybrid - 38 mpg city (Camry hybrid is only 33)
    3.0L V6 - 240-245 hp with better FE than current 221 hp 3.0L V6 (no numbers)
    3.5L V6 - 265 hp - no FE numbers
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Thanks!

    No city numbers for the I4 yet?
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    I actually like the look of the Fusion. Ford did a good job with it. This is probably the most extensive refresh I have ever seen. With new engine / tranny choices and new sheet metal, this is more like a totally new model.

    Didn't the Fusion come out in 06? So 06,7,8, and 9, that's four years. If it isn't a totally new model, it should be. Most midsizers are redesigned every 5 years, but considering how far behind the Fusion was, it had to be redone as soon as possible, IMO. If this isn't a total redesign, when will it happen? 2020? As far as the interior goes, some of the buttons are still way too low on the dash, and on the exterior that grill is way too much.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    IIRC, the Fusion was going to be done sort of like the Camry, with the 2010 introduction in VERY early 2009, so it'll be roughly 3 years.

    I agree that the grill is pretty bad (worse than the Taurus IMO), but the interior looks pretty nice.
  • milkman1milkman1 Member Posts: 80
    As an ex Mazda 6 fan, the new fusion is the promise of hope I have been looking for. I just hope they have tuned the suspension in the non sport versions such that it will suffice. I am sure someone will come up with a good after market grill. The rest of the front end looks too good not to.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    No official numbers have been released. These were calculated from various comments to the press by Ford management. They were obviously highlighting the larger numbers.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Didn't the Fusion come out in 06? So 06,7,8, and 9, that's four years. If it isn't a totally new model, it should be.

    I bought my 06 Fusion on November 5, 2005. It was one of the first to hit the dealership. The 2009 Fusion production ends in December, they're idling the plant for January to move out the rest of the 2009s so the 2010 rolls off the line in late January or early February. That's 38 or 39 months - NOT 4 years.

    Then again we knew you'd find something bad to say. With you I guess every silver lining has a dark cloud......
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    akirby, you just have to understand that it isn't a Honda so there must be bad stuff about it. :blush:

    I don't care for the grille, but as the grad said, the interior looks great.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Regardless, thank you anyway!
  • joshuagjoshuag Member Posts: 92
    I really like the pictures of the new Fusion. Ford looks like it is taking seriously getting itself out of the mess that it's in by putting out a nice new model like this one. I kinda think the front of the car looks a lot like the 09 Avalon. Does anyone else think so?
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Didn't the Fusion come out in 06? So 06,7,8, and 9, that's four years. If it isn't a totally new model, it should be.

    Simple math: The Fusion hit dealers in October of '06, with the redesign scheduled for (at the latest) February of '09, for a sum of 40 months, or 3 years, 4 months. For the record, it's well within the mid-cycle refresh time that your precious Honda and Toyota follows.

    ...and on the exterior that grill is way too much.

    Heh, "too much"? Have you seen the warped-razor-blade that Acura calls a grille for the TL and TSX? It makes both the current and future Fusion look tame in comparison, and takes them both right off my list.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    For those of you ripping on the Fusion Hybrid's leaf display, take a look at this. I'm proud to say that my 5 year old son could draw nicer leaves than that! :P

    Is it just me or is there waaaay too much going on on that dash? What ever happened to those simple Honda dash layouts that were praised so much? We have 2 cars and I drive one primarily while my wife drives the other. Both have fairly simple dash layouts and center stacks (both Ford SUVs) which allows us to use the other one on occasion and not be confused. If I had to drive this once or twice a week I'd get a migrane trying to figure out what's going on. The Fusion Hybrid isn't immune to this either mind you, but it Honda has taken this to a whole new level IMO. Not good. :sick:
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    It's really very similar to the current Civic dash, with the minor addition of automatic climate control. I actually think the radio controls look simpler to operate than those of the current nav-equipped Civic. There might be a few minutes needed with the owner's manual but it's not as bad as it first appears--the lighting makes it seem spacey.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    It's really very similar to the current Civic dash, with the minor addition of automatic climate control. I actually think the radio controls look simpler to operate than those of the current nav-equipped Civic.

    Yes, but I was talking about the gauges and such not the center stack. The center stack in those pics is definitely much simpler than that of the Accord or Pilot which can only be good. All that garbage going on in front of the driver's face is rather poorly done IMO. Even the owner of an Accord and Insight would be confused going from one to the other I think.
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    Even the owner of an Accord and Insight would be confused going from one to the other I think.

    Without a doubt. But as I was trying to say in my previous post, a Civic owner would feel right at home, since the two-tiered "garbage" display is virtually identical to the one in the current Civic.

    Perhaps Civic owners, and not Accord owners, are the target market for the Insight. The choice of the "Insight" name, which was previously associated with a minimalist two-passenger hybrid, suggests to me that the car isn't really aimed at Accord buyers.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Simple math: The Fusion hit dealers in October of '06...

    It was Oct. '05, wasn't it? That makes your math add up. :)

    As for the grille: I think it's incredibly ugly. But not nearly as incredibly ugly as the grille on the new TL or several other newer Honda products. :P
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Perhaps Civic owners, and not Accord owners, are the target market for the Insight. The choice of the "Insight" name, which was previously associated with a minimalist two-passenger hybrid, suggests to me that the car isn't really aimed at Accord buyers.

    I do agree. However I don't believe many Civic drivers will be putting one of these in their garage next to their Civic. I think they'll be more likely to trade their Civic in for one of these and park it next to their Accord or Pilot.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    It was Oct. '05, wasn't it? That makes your math add up.

    Sorry. Still hadn't had my coffee yet... :)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Personally, I'm not a fan of either one, but what I do like about it is that the speedometer is seperate from it, as in the Civic.
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    That's what I like least, actually. I hate that upper rim with the digital speedo in it. I'd always be looking at the tach, dead center, and wondering why it wasn't giving me MPH.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    I'd always be looking at the tach, dead center, and wondering why it wasn't giving me MPH.

    Driving with a stick tranny would be a hassle too. Too many levels to look at. With an auto it wouldn't be as bad for me but I see where you're coming from. It's great if you love tech but could be annoying to those who don't. I'm guessing that's why the "youngster" Hondas have it and not the "old fart" Accord/Pilot/etc.

    My dad's '87 Taurus had an all digital dash and I loved it. But it did have the tach as a rising meter that ran up and around the speedo which was less confusing IMO.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Interestingly, my dad liked the Civic design better than I. He'll be 52 this year. I'm 21, and have the old fart Accord ('06 model). To be fair, it is an automatic, so RPM isn't something he's looking at often. I've driven the Civic for more than 5 hours at a time, and its really no big deal to adjust to; takes a few minutes, but everything becomes second nature pretty easily.
  • TheUkrainianTheUkrainian Member Posts: 1
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081125/ap_on_bi_ge/safe_cars

    Good news for Ford. They need to market this, or at least make it poster sized at dealerships. The 2010 Fusion is amazing in both safety and technology. Looks are subjective, safety is not. I personally love the new redesigned Fusion, it looks more sporty and aggressive. I currently own a 07 Fusion I4, and I'm pretty sure that the new Fusion will be my next vehicle.

    Before I got my Fusion I test drove a Camry. Hated it. The suspension was too floaty, the interior was not appealing, and the exterior looks are bland. Toyota salesman tried to steer me away from the Fusion based on reliability. Since it's launch, I don't believe the Fusion has had any recalls. Since I've owned mine, I haven't had any issues, just 25,000 happy satisfied miles. :)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The CR January issue has tests of the cars listed in the title of the post. Spoiler alert: do not read further if you don't want to find out how they scored!

    Of the cars tested for January, the Sonata GLS I4 and Limited V6 were the top-scoring mid-sizers in their respective groups (which are $20-25k and $25-30k). However, the top-scoring car that CR tested, as a sidebar to the other tests, was the Jetta TDI, which CR put just one point behind the top-scoring car in its $20-25k sedans class, the Altima 2.5S.

    The relatively poor showing of the all-new Mazda6 was surprising, since it is the newest mid-sized design. Also, the comments about the Mazda6 were pretty positive, with the only knocks being about road noise and the fuel economy of the V6 (20 mpg measured), and quibbles on some of the interior trim on the 6i Sport and head room in back. It could just be a reflection of the fact that the mid-sized sedan class is pretty darn good across the board; e.g. only four points separated the Sonata GLS from the Mazda6i, and only 2 points separated the Sonata Limited V6 from the 6s Grand Touring.

    Just kind of interesting though that CR would rank cars like the Prius and Optima (pre-2009 model) ahead of the Mazda6, refreshed Sonata, or even the Malibu. Probably shows that CR weights fuel economy pretty highly in its rankings (cf. Jetta TDI and Prius).

    Rankings of cars tested for January issue:

    Jetta TDI: 84
    Sonata Limited V6: 83
    6s Grand Touring: 81
    Sonata GLS I4: 77
    Malibu LT I4: 74
    6i Sport, Malibu Hybrid (tie): 73
    Aura XE I4: 67

    I guess we'll have to wait until sometime next year to see how the refreshed 2009 Optima and 2010 Fusion, Milan, and Legacy fare.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    can you recall what it was they didn't like about the new Saturn Aura XE I4? Bad gas mileage, perhaps?

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    They basically said it isn't as good as the Malibu--sound but unexceptional handling, rear seat not as good as the Malibu's (bottom is hard, flat, and low, and back is angled rather steeply), worse fuel economy (but just 1 mpg less) and noise isolation. They also mentioned a cheap-feeling, creaky center console that robs knee room and some complaints about the front seats and seat belts.

    Odd thing, though: CR did not recommend the Aura because it said the four-cylinder model is "new." But the Aura has been around awhile, and the powertrain is the same as in the Malibu LT that they also tested--and recommended. :confuse:
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Member Posts: 936
    Hi Backy,
    As I remember,my 06.5 Optima score 87 at that time,so does that mean it's better than the new models?<img src="
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    your '06.5 Kia Optima is sound as a pound, man. You have a nice car, remind me what color you chose for your Optima. The refresh of the Optima that is your year has an interesting headlamp design, it gives the car sort of a Jetta [non-permissible content removed] Audi look to it. Definitely unique and refreshing IMO.

    And the '06.5 Kia Optima has been mostly treated fairly by the automotive press, too.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Well, I think you transposed the numbers in your mind. Not even the top-ranked car in the $20-25k grouping, the Altima 2.5S, got 87. The Optima EX I4's score is 78, with the V6 at 75. But that 78 is still better than all of the newer models tested for January, except the Jetta TDI, and the Sonata and Mazda6 V6s. Not too shabby for the old Optima.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    Read backy's post above. You and csandste have scored very, very good automobiles that have caused the automotive press to stand up and deal wid it honestly, and the Optima actually came out smelling like a Washington state rose in glorious bloom. A good looking rose, too, I might add. ;)

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The Accord and 2010 Fusion/Milan hybrids are represented on the latest Ward's 10 Best Engines list--the 3.5L V6 for the Accord and the 2.5L hybrid powertrain for the Fulan:

    http://wardsauto.com/home/best_engines_2009_081205/

    It is encouraging that Ward's notes the Ford hybrid powertrain (tested in the Escape hybrid) managed to easily exceed its EPA ratings in their tests. That bodes well for the Fulan, which should be able to get better fuel economy numbers than the Escape.
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Member Posts: 936
    Sorry I didn't reply sooner,but I never got notification of your post.There seem to be some issues with that on this site.
    My Optima EX is black.I did not choose that,but with the equipment I wanted it was the only one my dealer could get his hands on.I've got over 24K on it and so far so good.I have had three people comment on it's good looks.This has never happened to me with any of the many cars I have owned. :blush:
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Member Posts: 936
    Ooops :blush:
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    A reporter from a national newspaper would like to speak with consumers who have been frustrated by some manufacturers&#146; tendency to place safety related vehicle options into expensive packages. Have you ever wanted to equip a vehicle with specific safety features that required the purchase of an entire package? If so, please respond to jwahl@edmunds.com with your daytime contact information no later than Friday, December 12.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    no, Kia did a great job styling the 2006.5+ Kia Optima body. I first saw one on the road in Jackson Hole, WY, on vacation. It was a white one and it's driver was scooting right along downtown there. I had to look in my '01 Kia Sportage 4X4's side view, then rear view mirror. Very, very handsome vehicle, I might add.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • mickeyrommickeyrom Member Posts: 936
    Good thing too, as it's probably my last car.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    man, your last rig? Are you for sure? Don't you wanna join me in getting a 2010 Pininfarina-Bollore B0 all-electric car with $7,500 taken off of the price because it's a new "green" car the Obama Administration will give us a credit for? Sounds like a cool rig, I'll provide a link and/or picture if you like, later. ;)

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    41 mpg city, 36 hwy. Beats Camry by 8 mpg city and 2 hwy. Wow.
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Member Posts: 936
    I just read an article about this car,and the writer claims that he had no problem getting 52 MPG on combined.This car,he wrote,can go as fast as 47 MPH on electric power alone.He is concerned that Americans will not buy them because the lowered gas prices.Heck,the oil prices will go up again,unless we continue conserving.Where was this wundercar when we were paying $4 per gallon?
    I guarantee that if were in the market for a new car,this hybrid would be first on my list.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Member Posts: 425
    I've driven all 3 cars and I'd have to agree w/ most of what the Edmunds testers concluded. Edmunds V6 comparison test: Mazda6 vs Accord vs Altima

    At the time my mom was shopping for a car, the Mazda6 was not out yet so we drove the Accord and Altima (as well as the Sonata and Azera). Of these 4, I liked the Accord the best (though thought the Sonata was the best value). I thought the suspension was the most sorted of the 4 and that the quality of the interior was much better than the Altima which still has some really cheap feeling materials like on the plate that has the window contols by the door... really hollow sounding and has that thin, brittle plastic feeling. I agree that the engine/ transmission of the Altima was better than the Accord, but since the Accord was no slouch either, I preferred the build quality and it's ability to sort out rough roads better.

    But a month later, I was in to get an oil change on my 2005 mazda6, and decided to take the time to give the new 6 a test drive. I was not unhappy w/ my current mazda6, but I was curious. First thing I noticed was the responsiveness of the engine: much more torque than my v-6 and quite a bit quicker from a standstill even though my '05 6 has a manual. Really, I'm impressed with everything about this newer version... I came really close to buying one. The interior was very nice, it was as quiet as the Accord or Altima, but had a better suspension that handled rough roads as well as the best but had less body lean in corners that gave the car a feeling of more control. Steering feel was very good, better than the Accord and Altima, but not as good as my current 6. I think what held me back from doing the trade was a lack of a hatchback. I'm sure I would have been very happy w/ the new 6, but I knew I was still happy with my "old" 6...

    But this is what my scorecard looked like (best first, worst last):
    Interior quality: accord (minuses b/c of cluttered dash), Mazda6 (very close to the Accord, but lacked a little finesse), Altima

    Drivetrain: Altima, Mazda6 (surprisingly close to the Altima though), Accord

    Suspension: mazda6, accord, altima

    brakes/ steering feel: mazda6, accord, altima

    seat comfort: accord, mazda6, altima

    exterior looks: mazda6, altima, accord (by a lot...)

    extras: mazda6 (xenon, btooth, blindspot warning system, keyless start/entry, best mpg), altima (keyless start/entry, cvt), accord (navi, resale value)

    really, all 3 cars are very, very good. but given a choice, using different ways of analyzing which one to choose (practicality, fun to drive, utility), I would choose the 6 also. well done Mazda!
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    Rented an Accord two weeks ago and thought the seats were very good and I have persistent spinal issues which necessitates the use of a cane. Better than my '06 Civic but still lacking those of the Volvo S40 I almost bought two years ago. The Accord drove flawlessly with four occupants and a truck stuffed to the gills. Would definitely buy an Accord in an instant if we needed a mid-sized car...even the wife agreed.

    The Sandman :)
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The 09 and later Fusions also have better than average seats.
  • madpistolmadpistol Member Posts: 126
    the "hollow sounding" plate on the altima door controls is Carbon Fiber (on the SL models), so regardless of what it sounds like, it's a much higher quality material than can be found in the other 2 cars.

    Other than that, you're right on the money on virtually all fronts. The 6 is a great car, and if I got to pick my car again, I would have picked the '09 Mazda6 over the Altima. I was very torn between the Altima and the Accord (I flatly refused to get the Camry...) I think the Accord is a little more comfortable for long distance travel, but the Altima is far superior on twisty roads. I also believe Nissan has the best powertrain with their current generation of CVT. No other Automatic Transmission this side of a DSG is as responsive or quick.

    There's a reason that the Altima is selling nearly as well as Camry and Accord, but as far as the best midsize sedan currently, I think the Mazda6 has it. Unfortunately, not many people realize this.
  • mjmackymjmacky Member Posts: 2
    I'm looking to buy a 2004 Mazda6 with 120k miles... The asking price is 5,975. . . .? I don't know to much about Mazda's.. I am a honda person. How long would I have before the transmission cuts out?
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Volvos have always had a Swedish chiropractor's ideology in mind. I don't think there's better seats to be had in anything that's not some exotic car.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    On a car with 120k miles, Mazda or Honda or whatever, anything can go at any time. There is no magic time or number of miles as to how long a tranny (assuming you mean automatic here) will last in a specific car. Your odds are better if the car has been well treated and maintained over its lifetime. Are the maintenance records available? If so, check to be sure regular maintenance was done including the big services at 60k and 120k. Also you should have the car checked by a mechanic you can trust.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,304
    is that question a setup?
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • mazda6dudemazda6dude Member Posts: 283
    I used to own a 2005 Mazda6 i sport edition and now have a 2008 Honda Accord LX. After reading edmunds comparsion, of the altima, accord and mazda6 seemed like the accord and mazda6 were really close. I admit I was suprised/shocked that the mazda6 beat the accord and that the overall MPG was higher for the mazda6 compared to accord.

    The v6 accords MPG rating is 19/29 and the Mazda6 is 17/25, yet the mazda6 got 20 mpg overall and the accord got 18 mpg overall.

    I still believe the accord has a slight edge over the mazda6 and then being a long track record of reliability and resale value, otherwise, a dead heat. Always thought the Altima was over priced. Seems like nissan took a step backwards with the new altima.
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