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Dudeyr, If I am on my way home on the beltway and my car slows down up the hill, I get 18 angry, frazzled people all moving left to the shoulder to se who the left lane impediment is. It is almost impossible to calmly cruise down the road here during peak hours, which are 5 am to 10 am. then from 3PM to 8PM. But that is deceptive too, because promptly at 10am construction begins and they shut down at least one lane. I don't know how people drive downtown daily. Twice a week is enough for me. Quite enough.
I test drove my Accord EX-L in Eco mode and have kept it that way ever since. I get excellent fuel economy and the car drives like a dream. Win win.
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
I drive like a scalded cat. LOL.
It does not work for everybody, but it does not slow down very much maybe 1 or 2 mph. My Sienna is so aggressive that it shifts down 2 gears going up even moderate hills and winds up going faster than I have the cruise set for at the top. Really wish it had eco. I don't think the Accord is that bad, but have not really driven it up any real hills with eco off. Since the 6MT is geared so short it can go up a very steep hill with no trouble in 6th gear.
Probably don't want to be using cruise in situations where there are 18 people behind you anyway.
I used to live in DC - traffic drove me to a saner place (South Dakota). My commute to work is 5 minutes - if I walk. I have not waited more than 1 cycle for a stoplight in years. There was a traffic jam on the interstate about 7 or 8 years ago that was kind of annoying (construction during Sturgis), but that is the only one I have hit in 20 years.
My sisters' Prius V has an Econ button. Tried it once, that was enough. Speaking of hills, my Fusion, still siting at the dealer, has some kind of grade logic built into the transmission. It will downshift a gear or two to hold the speed. It could be once I apply the brake, I'll have to check. The Altima definitely picks up speed on the down hill. I'll have to check if it speeds up after stepping on the brake while coasting down the hill.
If you're going downhill and tap the brakes the Fusion will downshift to maintain speed.
Have the ECO button on all the time in my Tuscon and it seems to drive nicely. If I need power, I hit the gas a bit harder and off it goes. So far, very pleased with it after hitting 9k this morning...not too big and not too small and love the ease of ingress/egress, the main reason for the purchase after all. It suits my needs perfectly and though the mileage could be better, I like the vehicle overall. Good decision to keep the XM radio after the trial period because I love my 6 presets and the handy steering wheel controls. On a 10 point scale...give the Tuscon a "9" overall!
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
I'm trying to decide between the '15 Mazda 6 i touring and the '14 Accord EX. The OTD prices I've been quoted are very close to one another. I was secretly hoping one would be different to sway my opinion. Fortunately or unfortunately that didn't happen.
The allure of the accord, if you can say that, is it's reliability and bland design that should age well.
Is there any reliability issues to be concerned about with Mazda? There is little to no "real world" information about the Mazda 6, just glowing reviews from the car magazines and online.
Part of me says go with the Accord, they are everywhere and everyone must be driving them for a reason. The other part of me says get the car that's different and no people have on the road.
I plan on keeping my car for a long time, so this isn't a 3-4yr decision, but a 8-10 year.
I don't want to have to floor it. It just feels dulled to me in ECON mode, and the zippy engine is a big part of what sold me on the car in the first place. Not sure about the AC compressor, but I keep climate control on automatic. It can back off when it gets me down to my desired temp. To each his own. "Throwing energy away" is one way to put it. I consider it put to rather good use, and I'm still twice as green as all the bros in lifted pickups sitting next to me in traffic.
Very true.
@tm_014,
Both good cars. You see Accord more because of good history, more dealers, bigger company, etc. Mazda is a much smaller car company so you will realistically see fewer of them. I like Mazdas but I will not try to sell you on them. I have to figure you're smart enough to decide on your own. But to your actual question, the Mazda6 we have is 7 years old with 109000 miles. There has been absolutely no repairs required on this car. Two minor free dealer adjustments which probably cost them a total of $10 were made early on. I've had over 35 cars in my life and I think this has been the most trouble free car ever. I looked at the Mazda6 ratings on Consumers Report before I bought. The recent past is a fairly good indicator of future results. I haven't looked at the Mazda6 reports in CR recently but I haven't heard of any big problems either.
They both have some new technology that hasn't been around all that long so I think both of them are probably similar in that regard. The new Skyactiv drivetrains in the Mazda and the new Earthdreams/CVT tranny in the Accord. Have read reviews on both from consumers at cars.com, Edmunds etc and haven't seen any kind of trend or repeated problems. I say take the one you like the looks of and the one you like to drive the best. Can't go wrong with either.
@tm_014, Mazda6 was my second choice. It was a tough call. No doubt the 6 is more attractive, and both handle very well, but a few little things put Accord on top for me:
-Rear seat leg room
-Materials quality
-Power
-Gearbox
-Reputation = resale value
I came out of a 2008 Mazda3, had no serious issues. AC blower motor died once (under warranty) and was beginning to act up again with sporadic refusals to blow any air. That was going to be $500 to repair, and too difficult for me to handle on my own because of its location. But I had it 93K miles and was still on the original clutch and brakes with plenty of life on the pads. Other than the AC being a bit outmatched by the Texas summer heat, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another from a quality standpoint.
You can't go wrong here. Get the one that will make you smile every day of those 8-10 years.
Ah, my favorite complaint about modern cars. I remember my first couple of cars (in the 1970s through 1990); when I turned the temperature control up or down, the A/C compressor cycled. It kept the car at the temperature I wanted and still saved gas. On the cars I've had since then, when the A/C button is on, the compressor is on - even if I turn up the temperature. It blends warm air with the colder air - which is stupid, wasting gas to cool air only to make it warmer. I suppose it may make for somewhat less stress on the compressor, but I still prefer the earlier, simpler system.
It's not stupid. It dehumidifies the air. Remember how the windows used to fog up when it rained in the wintertime and you had to use the defroster? You don't usually need to do that now because the compressor dehumidifies the air before warming it up. It also keeps the compressor lubed.
I prefer to handle dshumidification myself, but in any case I never had any problems with fogging windows on the vehicles that cycled the compressor. On my recent vehicles, the compressor does not run in the Winter unless the defrosters are switched on or the A/C button is pressed; it has been that way for the past 14 years on my new vehicles. So I don't think the statement is true (at least for the vehicles I've owned, including my new 2014 VW).
I don't know why it would keep the compressor better lubed, since it would be cycling anyway if the A/C button is pressed.
I stand by my former statements, including my summary opinion. The car manufacturers are causing the vehicles to waste more fuel to cool air that is then warmed to passenger temperature settings.
EDIT: Which is not to say anything more than our opinions are different.
I used to drive 6cyl cars in the 70s with 150hp that only got about 15 mpg on average. Now I can drive a heavier car with 180hp and average almost 30mpg. Engineers must be doing something right.
The oil is in the refrigerant so running the A/C periodically keeps everything lubed properly (gaskets/orings/seals). Most modern automatic climate control systems will run the A/C for dehumidification even if the A/C light isn't on.
And I was only responding to the assertion that it was "stupid" to run the A/C when you're getting warm air. It doesn't cost any more to warm cold air - engine heat is free. So you get the benefit of drier air. That's where the "auto" part comes in. If you don't want it to work automatically put it in manual mode and you can control it yourself.
My other point is you can't assume the compressor is off just because the A/C light is off. Some vehicles run the A/C automatically without turning on the light.
My 2003 Honda CRV was that way. You could turn off the A/C light, but the compressor still ran. That was a useless setting! But it still ran only in defroster mode.
We keep the eco button on our 2013 Accord CVT on. Seems pretty subtle. Acceleration is fast whenever you want it, and the AC is always very cold when you want it. I think it mostly just shifts into the economy gearing when cruising. Since we've exceeded the hwy mpg rating several times, imho it works w/o any pain.++
I guess I wasn't clear. It costs more that it would to cycle the compressor; when the compressor isn't running, the vehicle is using less fuel. If they cycled the compressor to match an approximate temperature setting, whenever the compressor was off the engine would use less fuel, resulting in lower fuel use overall. Under the current system, the compressor is running all the time. Hence my comments.
Unfortunately, the compressor will not cycle even in so-called "manual" mode. Unless you mean me turning it on and off. But that is what automation is for. The old system made more sense for mileage. It could at least be an option to have the car cycle the compressor. I realize that they are attempting to deliver air at an exact temperature, but I think it could be accomplished in a smarter fashion.
I've owned both Mazdas and Hondas in my life. They are my two favorite car brands. You probably can't go wrong imho.
That having been said, I definitely prefer Hondas overall. There's a slightly higher level of engineering and functionality in a Honda compared to any other make at roughly the same price imho. The Accord also has better visibility, better room inside (esp. back seat), more trunk space, etc.
Best wishes either way. I think you've picked the two best cars in the segment.
Since almost all modern vehicles work this way now, I'm going to assume that the automotive engineers are smarter than we are and have very good logical reasons for running the compressor. If you prefer to think they're stupid, go right ahead.
AHHHH. SO you might know the hills I speak of. They are on 395, built in the 1960's, and it has steep up and down grades that today would be smoothed out. I use my cruise to keep my car from unwanted state and local police attention,
I have some advice for DC visitors. On your way out. of the city, on 395 South,(next to the ugly Marine Corp memorial there is an entrance to 395 South. Do not go over 67 mph, even if it is a difficult merge (it is). The area I speak of it about 1 mile from the Pentagon. A cop waits on a on ramp for folks flooring it to get over into 395 traffic. After driving around DC to visit the sites, and realizing the pavement is terrible, no one cares that you are taking pictures of X memorial or museum, and if you drive slow people may, and do throw things at you. Seriously. Just park and walk. Driving in DC is like playing Russian roulette. The Very best way to see DC on foot is to go in on 23rd street, kept straight , then before F street, make a right. There about 10 spots there with meters.It costs 2 bucks for 2 hours AFTER 9:30 AM (Museums open at 10AM). Now, on 395 N through the city, you can no longer get to Pennsylvania Avenue (RT 50) the old way. They are doing construction that had even me making illegal U-Turns and my GPS does not have these new roads on the map yet, so it thought I was driving in there Anacostia River... which would throw a wrench in my desire to get home,.
I wouldn't worry about quality and breakdowns. Which h one makes you feel good when you drive it? Which one is more responsive? Also, I think the Mazda, found in a garage 70 years from now would be a gem, not the other way around. Lastly. Mazda has a real 6 speed. Onoda has cleverly engineered it's CV T to feel like a 6 speed auto... so I would buy the real one rather than wait FRO THE Honda CVT to explode trying to be too many things to too many people.
KBB midsize comparison. A quote from each evaluation (in alphabetical order).
http://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-latest/2014-chevrolet-malibu-better-than-before-but-still-needs-more/2000010842/
"2014 Chevrolet Malibu: Better Than Before, But Still Needs More....
So the 2014 Chevrolet Malibu is definitely a step forward from last year's car, and a more recommendable midsize sedan than before. If you love its looks, crave a comfortable and relatively quiet highway ride, it's worth a look. But the Malibu's tight rear seat and so-so fuel economy are easily trumped by other cars in our group."
"2014 Ford Fusion SE: Utility, Plus a Little Something Extra....
For everyday driving, the Ford Fusion's sportier personality adapts easily to daily commutes or the long highway miles of a road trip. The interior speaks contemporary without showing off, and the materials are generally on par for this class. The front bucket seats were very supportive. We weren't impressed, however, with the center stack's tiny display or the lack of a backup camera -- we would recommend optioning up to the big-screen Sync/MyFord Touch system, though the system's Bluetooth setup can sometimes be a chore. The Fusion's high beltline is good for styling, but less so for seeing out the sides and rear of this midsize sedan.
Moving further back, the Ford Fusion midsize sedan is not a star-player for rear-seat legroom, although headroom is great. For cargo enthusiasts, the Fusion offers 16.0 cubic feet of trunkspace -- excellent for the class -- and the lowest liftover among our eight competitors."
"2014 Honda Accord: It's Good to Be King....
Spirited, fun driving is something the Mazda6 is known for but the Accord held its own in the twisty sections of our route. The Accord also has something the Mazda6 lacks, and that's loads of interior and cargo space. However, while the pass through space is big, we continue to wonder why Honda won't make the move to a split-back rear seat. As noted by multiple editors, the Accord's trunk is cavernous -- one of the biggest in the segment -- and can fit more than a week's worth of groceries for a family of five.
Then there's the incredibly frugal 2.4-liter 4-cylinder engine which sipped fuel at an impressively gradual rate during the drive. Paired with a CVT, which is in a class by itself, the Accord EX has no trouble getting up to highway speeds....
Overall, the 2014 Honda Accord EX consistently proved throughout the course of this test that it deserves to sit at the top of the midsize sedan segment. Whether it's the frugal powertrain, comfortable and roomy interior, or the cavernous trunk, the Accord is a solid package."
"2014 Kia Optima EX: Lots of Features, Not Lots of Fun....
There's a contemporary and decidedly upscale flair to its basic design and the upgraded front buckets are now notably more comfortable. The Optima's driver-oriented dash layout and highly-legible tri-barrel main instrument cluster also drew kudos as did less-obvious touches like its large central covered storage bin, easily accessible ports/powerpoints, rear-seat A/C vents and trick cooled glovebox.....
While lacking the Accord's level of accelerative enthusiasm, the Optima's 2.4-liter/192-horsepower 4-cylinder engine mated to a 6-speed Sportmatic autoshifter still give this Kia category-competitive straight-line performance. The same does not hold true of the Optima's overall handling, which was deemed least satisfying of the group. A suspension light on meaningful driver feedback coupled with fussy steering that requires frequent mini-corrections detract from an otherwise genuinely impressive midsize-sedan package."
"2014 Mazda Mazda6: Sportiness Doesn't Trump Utility....
After our lengthy drive that included stints in seven other top midsize-sedan choices, including the highly popular Toyota Camry and Honda Accord, our jury of testers were nearly unanimous in calling the Mazda6 the most fun-to-drive car of the bunch. Further, we all largely agreed that the dramatic curves of the Mazda6's exterior make it the best-looking car in the group as well. So best-performing and best-looking are nice places to start. Beyond that though, the example of the Mazda6 we tested, which had a manual transmission versus the automatics in the others, was the least expensive of the gathered competitors, and its fuel economy (oddly hindered, not helped by its manual transmission as in days of yore) was up toward the top of the class as well. Yes, there is something to Mazda's highly touted Skyactiv technology suite.
So what are the downsides of the Mazda6 in comparison to the other top midsize-sedan choices in the segment? Some cited what they termed a "smallish" rear seat, and one said the entire interior seemed "cramped."
"2014 Nissan Altima 2.5 SV: Solid Alternative to the Mainstream....
There's a few reasons why the 2014 Nissan Altima is not, however, a midsize-sedan segment leader. The first is that its design is, quite frankly, a little anonymous. The body lines flow nicely, but the grille and overall appearance is not as cutting edge as other designs from Nissan, like the newly updated Murano. Of course, the same can be said for the Toyota Camry, however, that car has a mid-cycle refresh coming in short order. The good news for Nissan fans is that the next Altima will be more distinctive, much in the way of the bold looking concept that is purported to be the next Maxima.
The growly 182-horsepower 4-cylinder engine in our test vehicle provided adequate power for a car in this class, and the continuously variable transmission actually mimics shifts like a conventional automatic in some instances, which makes for a more familiar driving feel. The Altima's handling is composed, and some editors put it third behind the Mazda6 and Ford Fusion in pure driving enjoyment. Of course, steering feel is subjective and one comment complained of steering that could have been more precise. But in day-to-day use, the Altima midsize sedan comes across as controlled and comfortable. The front bucket seats were supportive and easy to settle into with 6-way adjustment."
"2014 Toyota Camry: Old Guys Rule....
None of the editors had anything nice to say about the Camry's design sense, but "don't care for the dash/center stack design or the steering wheel controls" was as harsh as it got. "Generic styling" was another direct quote and captured the overall sentiment.
Yes, there are sexier, cooler, more fun-to-drive midsize sedans on the market, but the Camry hasn't duped its way into the best-seller's spot. An affordable, reliable, comfortable way to move about the world, the Camry is exactly the car so many shoppers seek."
The engineers are not stupid. The wrong end result was programmed into their thought process; it did not include the question as to which is better - using less gas while keeping a nearly accurate temperature, or having the exact temperature. The only result they are building for is exact temperature control. They are focusing on keeping the exact temperature dialed in, which requires exact control of the air. The easiest way to do that is to keep the cold air from the compressor constantly running and then raise the incoming temperature using the engine heat. Sure, the temperature is exact, but does it really need to be that exact? I think it does in fact use more fuel, which is my basic point. The engineering logic is needlessly precise.
I hope they may eventually get the idea it is better to cycle the compressor. In my experience the auto temperature settings are not really as efficient or accurate as they are intended, due to differences in the cabin windows vs the sun position, etc. So I think the input controls don't really provide the degree of precision they were thinking anyway. But once an idea takes hold it tends to stay on a long time. That federal mandate of a fleet average MPG of 54 may lead to some expanded thinking.
The 54 mpg fleet average tests don't use the HVAC at all so it won't have any effect.
Running the A/C does not allow the temperature to be more precisely controlled - you can do that in the winter with just the heater.
It's done specifically to dehumidify the air. It shuts off just above 32 degrees because at that point there isn't enough moisture in the air to require dehumidification.
Yep. That about sums it up. But if you sit in traffic most of the time handling really isn't an issue. It is one of the reasons that I am considering coilovers.... but somehow I don't think it will be worth it. If I have to sit in traffic, I would rather have a good stereo. The subs (take up no usable space) and kicker AMP are in, and the Alpine 6.5" speakers will be here tomorrow.
I understand Toyota putting generous promo's on the soon to be changed Camry, but did you notice there is 0%/60 and $1500 on Ford Fusion and I just saw an ad on TV for Hyundai with 0%/72 and $2000. Those are new designs. Competition must be brutal right now.
Hyundai is only about moving the metal at any cost. I don't know if a dumping charge takes into account financing rates but I presume it might. They must be really close to that with all those incentives on a brand new, if disappointing, redesign.
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wow. that much on the ones just coming out? will have to check about that. The Fusion, that I can believe.
My neighbor is a ford Salesman, and has had the same demo for a while that I assume is for sale (has one of those warranty disclosure statements in the window now too). I am real curious what they would take for it, and what incentives apply.
it is a white 2014 SE. 2.5L (no turbos), with IIRC a package that includes a back up cam and heated seats. Plus it has a moonroof, alloys and power seats. So basically, the simple version that has all the required stuff, and nothing extraneous. MSRP is just over 25K.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
You saw an ad for the holdover 2014 Sonata, a design that debuted in January 2010. Here's what hyundaiusa.com says about current incentives on the 2014 and 2015 Sonatas in my area; note that the 0% financing for 72 months and $2000 rebate are for the 2014s:
2014 Sonata - From $21,450
2015 Sonata - From $21,150
Well, it looks exactly the same as the old one. Decent rental at the airport, but I don't see how it makes people WANT one. The interior looks the same as the last 2 previous models. No thanks.
You know, Chevy can make cars that are desirable. The Impala is way nicer looks wise and has a 305 HP 6 cyl..
You know, Chevy can make cars that are desirable. The Impala is way nicer looks wise and has a 305 HP 6 cyl..
The Malibu is an inexcusable effort by GM. The platform it is built on is the same as my Regal, which is a great car. The problem isn't the handling or the engines. It is everything else. The styling is terrible, the interior design is a joke, and the value proposition is just not there. Everything about it is unattractive. It is just a very unhappy design. They need to scrap this one ASAP and start fresh.
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You are correct about winter, of course. They don't need to cool the air with the compressor when it is cool outside. However in summer it is needed to make sure there is cold air to blend. Being from the southwest, I think in terms of the heat more than the cold, and I get better MPG in the winter (in general), partially because I don't have to run the A/C.
Good point about the fleet average, if they don't use the A/C in the testing...
Midsize sales for June
Camry 40,664
Accord 32,329
Fusion 27,604
Altima 26,111
Sonata 25,195
Malibu 16,137
Optima 13,866
200 7,345
Passat 7,222
Avenger 5,344
Mazda6 4,793
Legacy 3,131
(thanks to tsx from vtec.net)
Camry dominates, with a blistering annual sales rate close to half a million.
But the question is whether those are pull ahead sales due to discounts on the old model or people who don't like the new one buying the old one now?
I think if you stop at the dealer for an oil change (heck, to use the bathroom) they will give you a Camry on the way out the door. Just, because.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Re sales figures... people rave over the huge sales numbers of the Camry, but don't tend to notice that Hyundai/Kia's mid-sizers are only about 1600 units behind the Camry. The Sonata's numbers last month were no doubt fueled by close-out deals on the 2014s, but even in more typical months the Sonata/Optima duo is pretty close to the top sellers. Given their real-world pricing isn't much different in most months from cars like the Camry, Altima, and Fusion, they must be doing something right to attract so many buyers in an ultra-competitive marketplace. And that's with the oldest designs of any in the class, save the Legacy (2015 coming) and the woeful Avenger.
Got the Fusion back today. After having the Altima for 2 weeks, which was great on gas, and has a heavier feel, the Fusion feels like it is 500 pounds lighter not probably 500 more. I am sticking by my original impression the that Altima is a good long distance cruiser. Corner carver, not so much. Maybe better tires would fix that.
Could be a setting, but despite having a proximity type key and push button start, I had to actually start the Altima in order to say open or close the windows or check the info display. With the Fusion, I can just push the start button to activate the electrics.
When it's not in the shop, anyway.
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I rolled through the local Toyota dealer lot when they were closed on Sunday and was surprised to see a pair of 2013 Camry Hybrid leftovers on display on the raised plaza out front of their showroom. One was a fairly anonymous dark gray in color, but the other was a rather striking blue metallic, not quite light blue and not quite medium blue. I believe it is called "Clearwater Blue". I have never seen one in that paint color before and found it quite attractive, especially with the light interior color it sported. But I wonder if that is the reason it has not sold? Most people seem not to like vibrant colors these days, at least on sedans. I wonder, too, with these being nearly 2 model years old, why they haven't cleared them out.
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