Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Comments
Ecoboost engines are much more sensitive to throttle inputs. To get the EPA mileage you have to coast a lot with your foot completely off the gas pedal. Short trips also kill it (as it does for hybrids). They have the ability to get better than average mpg driven the right way but they also have the ability to get worse than average. It's just a wider range than NA engines. They also seem to be more sensitive to E-10 (EPA tests are done with pure gasoline, not E-10).
I averaged 17 mpg in my 2006 Fusion 3.0L. My 2013 2.0L EB averages 22 with about 40 more lb/ft of torque. Both of those are the EPA city ratings.
I think our RDX (with the VCM engine) is also sensitive to how you drive it. I get much better MPG than my wife, even in the same usage. I tend to feather the gas and coast a lot to watch the instant MPG readout spike to 40+, and keep it above 30. It is a technique for being very light on the gas, and coasting when possible. The wife tends to be a mash/brake type and has a heavy foot in general. Just does not drive "hybrid friendly" (which I think is the same technique that maximizes VCM mileage)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Your A TRUE CAR GUY. IF IT IS DIRTY...CLEAN IT! But women don't understand how that behavior does not transfer well to housework. Cars are art. Houses are made of trees mostly... just not into them.
I do have to add a bit of told-you-so. My Asian car has zero problems, warning lights, weird noises, rattles, or any other annoying problems, much less drivability problems and breakdowns. I am not easy on my cars either, and neither is the congestion in this area. Now at 28,600 miles. No turbo to break, no battery (that drives the car) to die. I am a pretty happy camper.
My guess is that KIA's quality is on par with the best at this point. I still have a feeling that Honda might have a very slight edge on a few things, but that may no longer be true.
One thing I came to realize 12-14 years ago, which this new GM scandal has emphasized, is that you are trusting your life and the lives of everyone in the car and around you to the parts in your car, many of which are small and inexpensive. But you want these parts to be well-engineered, even if they cost a few cents more.
As I dealt with safety recall after safety recall on my brand-new 2000 Ford Focus ZTS, I realized that Ford was not taking this seriously enough for my tastes. I got really tired of it. Wheels that might fall off? Engine might catch fire? Seriously? wtf?
Went to Honda and haven't looked back. They aren't perfect, but Honda's engineers have more power than at some other companies imho. It's a higher level of engineering than some middle class cars even today.
But the gap has narrowed a lot.
As I just said, KIA/Hyundai are probably now equal to almost everything in a Honda. Ford is much better too, even though I probably won't go near them again with a ten-foot pole. GM, obviously, has some work to do....
Just my 2 cents.
One thing that Hyundai/Kia hasn't come close to Honda on is residual value. And I am the proud (not!) owner of a 2013 Hyundai Genesis.
The worst vehicles today are better than the best vehicles 20 years ago. The gap from worst to first is much narrower and with one or two exceptions none of today's vehicles are terrible. Today it comes down more to features and cost and styling and options.
Hyundai/Kia have come a long way but they are not there yet. Reliability-wise, perhaps, although I know several people who have had ongoing, unfixable problems with their H/K vehicles. Materials quality and mechanical design, they are not there yet.
In terms of the recalls, I would suggest we are not seeing a complete picture yet. GM is purging every possible issue. Ford is owning up to certain issues. Chrysler has not done a whole lot yet but my gut tells me they are far from faultless. Toyota has had its issues in the past. H/K's corporate culture seems to be one of getting away with as much as they can until they can no longer avoid taking responsibility, as in the fuel economy and stated horsepower scandals. Time will tell.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Hyundai / Kia have come a long way and can certainly be trusted. I don't think they quite match Toyota or Honda yet (CR tests bear this out). My limited experience with a 10 day Sonata rental (2011 or 12 model) was not great. Car drove fine, but it was hard to get past some of the interior bits. The LED's looked like they came out of a cheap 80's alarm clock. I also had to exchange it as the key could not be removed from the ignition (I tried all the suggestions in the manual and the internet and the rental place did as well). They gave me a Camry.
GM scares me a little. There is an excellent book about them called "The Reckoning". I highly recommend giving it a read. It parallels the rise of Nissan to the fall of GM - mostly in the 60's. GM was making some of the best cars in the world and Nissan's were pathetic and barely able to get up to highway speeds in the U.S. They just kept improving by a little bit every year. Meanwhile GM knew they were on top with large fast vehicles that could cruise effortlessly. They began looking for every little place they could save a penny, to the point where the penny they saved would cost the consumer many dollars down the road because the vehicle would not hold up like it should. Accountants were driving design not engineers.
I worry that the culture is too engrained and these recent recalls are not helping to ease my feelings. They still do make some nice Mid Sized Sedans - CR recently rated the Impala very highly (maybe technically a full size, but the Malibu has a tiny back seat). I just don't trust that they are doing everything to make the car as well as they can.
I read The Reckoning many years ago. It is an account of those times and really was only one of many similar accounts of how GM was taken over by a bean-counter mentality - no news there. Iacocca was saying the same things about Ford in his 1980s book. The power of the Ford Finance staff back then was absolute. And Chrysler was run into the ground when it was run by Lynn Townsend, an accountant, in the 1960's and early '70s. You cannot cut costs forever and remain successful. Interestingly, I think Nissan is facing many of the same issues right now. Ghosn is notorious for cheapening things (see their infatuation with CVTs) and I do not find their vehicles particularly appealing.
Whether GM can change is an open question. It is still a huge company with all the cultural challenges that implies. It will take years to determine whether they can do it.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
So far, I've put about 50 miles on the Altima. CVT is somewhat noticeable, but not dramatically so. The drivetrain has a slight vibration between 1k and 2k and sometimes it seems to provide some additional braking effect when it isn't needed. The steering has some heft to it, which I like. A lot of cars have what I feel is over boosted power steering. Seats are comfortable and generally, it rides well and it's pretty quiet. Seems like a good road trip car. Handling capabilities are noticeably less than my Fusion. Took a damp off ramp and could feel the front tires starting to push out at a speed that my Fusion wouldn't have blinked at. Average mileage has been on 31.8 since I picked it up. Interior is much different than my Fusion. In the Fusion, my finger naturally land on the rear window switches on the door. In the Altima, I have to reach way back in order to operate any of the switches. Putting the shift into 'park' feels like where reverse is in the Fusion, so I always check it just in case. Outside, it is just a strange looking car, not a plus in my book. It does have some nice electronic features like individual tire pressure read outs.
I did some looking around on the internet for a problem similar to what my Fusion is experiencing, but didn't find anything, so I'm guessing it's somewhat unique to my car.
Related to discussion on quality... in the latest JD Power IQS study, Hyundai was the top-rated non-premium brand. GM also did pretty well, as did Kia. This is only quality measured over the first 90 days, but Hyundai made a huge jump from 10th to 4th in one year. I think a lot of that is most of their models have been around awhile now, including the Sonata, so they've had time to work out the glitches. The Sonata was 2nd in the mid-sized sedan class, behind the Malibu.
Dealer called today. Fusion needs a valve in the vapor recovery system. It's going to take some time to get the part, so probably won't get it back until at least the middle of next week.
Just got down to my house in Myrtle Beach pulled my Genesis out of the garage wiped it down and went for a ride. The more I drive this car the more I love it. Just turned 1000 miles. What a good job Hyundai did with this vehicle.. I probably will trade this model in for a 2016 and the smaller motor. Till then this car is alot of fun to drive with its 429 h/p. The new Tech features on the redesign 2015 Genesis are very impressive? Hyundai and Kia have come along way since there first models Excel in 1985 and the Kia sephia and Sportages.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Kia Motors, headquartered in Seoul, is South Korea's second-largest automobile manufacturer, following the Hyundai Motor Company, with sales of over 2.7 million vehicles in 2012 and almost 2.75 million vehicles in 2013. As of June 2012, the company is 32.8% owned by the Hyundai Motor Company.
Starting in 1986 (when only 26 cars were manufactured, followed by over 95,000 the next year), Kia rejoined the automobile industry in partnership with Ford. Kia produced several Mazda-derived vehicles for both domestic sales in South Korea and for export into other countries. These models included the Kia Pride, based on the Mazda 121, and the Avella, which were sold in North America and Australasia as the Ford Festiva and Ford Aspire.
In 1992, Kia Motors America was incorporated in the United States. The first Kia-branded vehicles in the United States were sold from four dealerships in Portland, Oregon in February 1994.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
You left out the part about Kia going bankrupt in 1997 and being acquired by Hyundai, who outbid Ford, the following year.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Hyundai owns 32% of Kia. How bad where those Sephia, Sportage vehicles back then. I know several people owning both models and having a lot of problems with them.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Hyundai has been in the car business for quite some time. When I was in Korea in the 1970s, the Hyundai pony was a very popular car in Korea. IIRC, they hired the Japanese to build the factory and basically produced a Mitsubishi clone called the pony... which became known as the excel when it was exported to the US.
The Pony was sold in Canada in the early-mid '80s and was a fairly primitive rear-drive sedan. The Excel replaced it and was Hyundai's first FWD car exported here.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
I am crossing my fingers but I may lose the car pictured here. My daughter accidentally tapped the accelerator instead of the brake while parking the Mazda6 at a mall parking ramp the other day, and pretty well mangled the right front by hitting the car in front of her... which just happened to be an E Class wagon.
Not heavy damage on the Mercedes, but a body shop just looking at one of those has gotta be pricey. Its owner was nowhere to be found, so I left the license plate (knocked off) on the windshield so the driver would see that something had happened (garage was pretty dark) with a note, and they took it pretty well. I am just hoping my insurance company doesn't total-out the Mazda. It won't take much to do that, as on paper its value isn't that high, but it's in near-pristine condition for a 2005 car despite relatively high miles (165k). I may have to go used-car shopping soon.
Backy,
You did the right thing by leaving a note. I'm just wondering in today's times if 10 people did the same thing how many would leave a note and number??
Something good will come out of this situation for you.
Hopefully the Car Gods will shine down on you.
3 yrs ago i'm playing golf in Myrtle beach. I find a brief case in the parking lot standing alone. 2 spots from my car. I grab the case walk over to my car open it up and find some business papers and a large sum of money, checks etc. I called this guy up and told him i found his case. His first words to me was please tell me the money was not taken. I met him 30 mins later gave him the case and refused to take a dime. This made me feel good to return this brief case and money. Nobody would know if i took the case and it never crossed my mind. Maybe 30 years ago it would. What stuck with me to this day is To see how happy and grateful this man was crying and hugging me with joy will last a life time with me. I have had nothing but good luck these past 3 yrs .. karma or what?............................ I believe in pay it forward. Hopefully you to.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Nah - unless it's aluminum or carbon fiber, it's just another car to the body shop. Parts might be a little more expensive but the E is MB's top selling car so parts cost may be normal. Besides, based on the age, your insurance may only pay for used or aftermarket parts.
Just be sure you get a fair settlement from insurance on the Mazda. As Robr2 said, repairing the Benz should be no problem if it's just sheet metal and plastic. Besides, to insurance companies, it's all about numbers. They don't get "upset" with you about anything, nor do they "congratulate" you when you do something good for them. It's all very dispassionate, numbers-crunching business. They really don't care what you hit--it's just another claim to them that goes into the plus and minus calculations.
Started some research looking for a new Fusion. Found one I think I would like, so I'm working on filling in the boxes to see if it will work. Looking at an SE Hybrid. It will work itself out over the next few weeks.
isn't the one you have fairly new? this a replacement, or an addition?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
It would be a replacement. I have a 2013 Titanium model. I don't really need the power it has, so I'm thinking of trading for the challenge of driving a hybrid. I do like the toys, although I probably would be giving up something. The only one I know for sure is remote start. Well, plus the 19 inch dark stainless rims.
Good news, the body shop told me that the frame rail wasn't hit and it doesn't look like the damage will total my Mazda6! But I'm sure to get a new front bumper out of it (to match the new rear bumper I got last year, see below)... and I declined the option to use non-OEM parts.
brian125, I was glad my daughter didn't flee the scene but called me. I think she was so upset she couldn't have driven anywhere anyway. Funny thing is, last fall someone hit this same car in the right rear while it was parked in a different mall parking lot, causing $2500 in damage (with $500 out of my pocket). No note from them of course. I don't know how they can sleep at night. I hope I raised my kids to do the right thing. A couple of years ago, as I was leaving a Twins game with my family, my middle son started walking away from us. I asked him where he was going, and he said he'd found a wallet and was going to turn it in. He showed it to me, and it was stuffed full of cash -- not sure how much was in there, but it was a big wad. He never got a "thank you" from the owner of the wallet, but I'll bet my son sleeps fine at night.
it's about taking responsibility for your actions. I still chide my friend about the time he called me up needing a ride because he couldn't find his car keys. He said: "The key got lost". LOL! Did it run away from home?
Maybe .1% people would leave a note. The newest thing is to leave a note, but all the writing is gibberish.
Maybe its just bad writing skills...... Have you ever really read some of my posts?....... lol
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Good point
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
I drove and was impressed by a 2014 VW Passat TDI SEL last night. I went on a lengthy test drive which included a nice mix of city, highway, & twisty back roads. The thing that stuck out the most was the Passat's ride. It soaked up road imperfections very well while remaining composed and stable. The chassis was well tuned and didn't just have soft springs. The body didn't wallow. The car itself is very smooth and drove much like a Mercedes-Benz.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I am coming down my street and I notice a silver Camry (07) just riding my tail down the street (it is full of speed.bumps. I had my kids in the car so I just stopped. She roars around my car And goes into a tirade while my kids are inn the car. My daughter just started filming her with my S3. She ran off then to "get her mother". The boyfriend , quiet the whole time... apologized for her and we shook hands and left. Some people are walking time bombs I guess. We made sure to take pictures of the car in case she tries to blame so damage on me. I was a oerfe3ct gentleman. I Just have all of my kids in the car, and it is low so I do not want to scrape the bottom of the car. I was in no way going any slower than anyone else though.
Still have the Altima loaner. Power is always there, has never felt under powered. At low speeds it's really nice to drive. Body feels really solid, but suspension gets out of sync on patched up roads. There is a drive train vibration between 1-2k rpms at all speeds. Also noticed I have to turn the radio up when on the highway, but not sure why. The average MPG and speed has not changed since I picked it up. I find that kind of strange.
This seems to be a chronic Nissan problem. I remember this being widely discussed with the Rogue at the time of its introduction.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
I had been waiting to see what you thought of the Altima. Last month, I rented an Altima at the Portland (OR) airport and drove it to northern California (avenue of the Giants). I did a lot of stop and go driving (3 days) on the way to Fortuna (south of Eureka). I noted CVT shutter at low RPM whether accelerating or decelerating, but got used to it. I actually enjoyed the smoothness of the CVT in lieu of the obvious shifting in regular transmissions. Aside from the vibrations at low RPM, I had no issues at all with the car. I drove just over 600 miles on the original tank of gas and the refuel light went on just before checking into the hotel. It read 37.7 mpg. I didn't do the math, but had no problems with that. The one BIG PROBLEM I had was the airbag light. It came on four times in three days while my wife was in the passenger seat. We stopped each time, she got out then back in and the airbag was fine. (I checked the build date and it was built after their recall on this issue.) We called the rental company and they sent us to Eureka where we got a camry. The plus to the camry was the large backup camera. It was on par with the Altima with one glaring exception - the mpg. I did all the driving and while we averaged 37.7 on the Altima we averaged 30.2 on the camry (just over 600 miles put on it, too, under similar conditions). I was in awe at the difference in mileage. I drove both cars like they were mine and remember being really surprised at the number of miles I had on one tank in the Altima. I had to fill up on the way back to Portland and again just before getting to the airport with the camry. I have no doubt about the mileage on either car. In all honesty, if I was to buy one of those cars I would like to choose the Altima, but the airbag issue would be a deal killer. I've read some of the Altima blogs and it seems Nissan hasn't taken care of the issue for those who've had the recall repair performed or for the cars being built after the cars involved in the recall.
A follow-up to my rental car post (hopefully without interruptions this time). I had to laugh at the interaction in Eureka when we went in with the Altima. The guy looked at my wife, then said that no one under 110 lbs (she is small) should be riding in the passenger seat and that's why the light was coming on. He wanted to give us another Altima. I asked if I was to chauffeur her while she rode in the back or would he think it best for me to take her to an all-you-can eat buffet before taking the car! What an idiot! I had to call corporate to get a different car (it had to do with state registration of the vehicle and airport issues, but that wasn't my problem) and that's how I got a camry. But of particular concern to me was the airbag issue. My wife and I are thinking of purchasing an infinit Q50 and it was on the recall list for airbags. I'm not interested in paying $50k for a car and having to constantly look at the airbag light to see if my wife's airbag is working.
I only took a brief test drive in the Altima, but overall was impressed. At the time I was considering a job that would be about 100 miles RT, so MPG and range was important. an 18,5 gal tank, combined with the expected high 30s highway was a bit plus.
if I was to buy, I would want a longer drive including on the highway, but I suspect that would be less of an issue with a CVT, meaning less noticeable.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I have been reading alot of bad reviews on the Q50 from buyers. This new model seems to have alot of 1st year kinks. I would wait for the 2nd year production on this vehicle.. Edmunds reviews on the Q 50 are not good for a car priced at almost 50 k . there are so many better choices. ES 350, Avalon, Genesis . to name a few. I'm sure CR reports review will be alot worse then edmunds reviews.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
How many people that have an "ECO" or " ECON" button use them? All it does is soften your transmission shift points based on throttle position.... and shuts the alternator off and on.... well, it ALTERNATES charging and not charging.
I do not ever use it
Oh, on another topic, good luck buying a Chevy Cruise today. Another recall, making the total of recalls in the past 2013-2014 model year at 44 affecting 15 million vehicles. Looks like my dreams of an Impala SS are fading to black.
I don't think it is a recall yet. They have issued a stop-sell order until they figure out the extent of the problem. Sounds similar to the Nissan airbag issue mentioned above.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
You'd have a really hard time trying to buy a Chevy Cruise period.
Re: Nissan CVT vibration, it's one reason I decided to lease our new Pathfinder. They say a software update and beefed up internals (chain vs. belt, though I don't pretend to fully understand how it works) make the Pathfinder's CVT more robust and gives 5K towing capacity. And we can always convert to purchase it if still satisfied in 36 months. But between that known issue and prior poor service experiences with a 2004 Quest, I thought to myself, I really like it now, but not sure I still will when it's not new...
Re: ECON button. I have one and never use it. I'm consistently down to 25 mpg with my new commute (Accord Sport 6MT). Was nearly 30 before with a longer, less congested, almost all highway drive. Haven't got the patience to see if ECON mode would help. When I want to drive soft, I'll drive soft. When I want to giddyup, I want all the power. And when it's hot, I want the dang AC on full blast.
I believe the newer cars have both a weight sensor and a height sensor. If there is sufficient weight but not height the car thinks there is a child up front and deactivates the airbag. If your wife is small she might be better off without the airbag working. That is the whole point of the sensors - the airbags can be dangerous to short people. But I don't know exactly what parameters are being used these days. I do recall that one can legally have a switch installed here in California for the driver seat to deactivate the airbag for smaller passengers. Or at least that is the way it was about a decade ago when we got our Civic and considered it.
EDIT: But that should never cause the airbag light to go off and on. I'm speaking of the passenger airbag light, not normal dashboard light. The passenger should either meet the specs (airbag on) or not (airbag off) - never changing.
My wife has been in quite a few cars and has never had a problem with the airbag being deactivated (i.e. not recognizing her in the seat). And if it truly was her, I'd have to ask why did it go off 4 times in 3 days? Why didn't it either stay on or stay off? She wasn't moving around in the seat. When I searched Altima and airbag it seems this has actually been an issue for Nissan for a very long time.
I was going to go on a 24 hour test drive on a fully loaded 2014 Optima SX-L. Then I regained my senses after thoughts of my wife stabbing m e in my sleep.....
@nyccarguy said: I drove and was impressed by a 2014 VW Passat TDI SEL last night.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!
MODERATOR
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
You know, I think the Azera is a nice car. The Cadenza sounds too much like Credenza, and the "tiger nose" looks more like a bone I would give to my dog. Listen up Kia board or directors: WE DONT CARE about your Tiger snout/nose styling. Please just let Peter Schreyer do the designing, and you guys deal with the money and the factory. I would not buy a Cadenza be3cause the front end has NO flow....no symmetry. It doesn't do anything for me. You need to use the Optima as the base model to build on. Have your upper priced car's with a front end more like that. It bet Peter would design a BEAUTIFUL car if you let him. The Cadena and the one above it will fail with the front ends looking like they do.
I agree with you cski. I think styling will hurt this very well rated vehicle.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
I almost always have the econ button on in my Accord 6MT. No need running the compressor all the time when it provides more than enough cooling running half the time - just throwing energy away, but I guess that is the energy policy for this country in general. I also prefer the cruise control in econ mode as it is a little more relaxed and does not fight to make sure you don't slow down 1 mph going up the steepest hill. I am happy to slow down a tad uphill and conversely speed up a tad on the way down - much more efficient.
If I need full power it is still there - just floor the pedal and you get the same power as with eco mode off.