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Acura cars in the past have at least strongly suggested premium fuel iirc.
The Acura engine is a bit souped up compared to the Accord's engine, but you are probably right that on regular the power drops close to the Accord level. But I'd say the Accord's is one of the nicest and most advanced engines in any midsize....
In terms of the interior of the Accord, here's what Edmunds says in its review:
"With a few exceptions, the materials in the 2014 Honda Accord have a high-quality look and feel. The overall cockpit design is elegant, and the cabin's tight construction gives the impression of an entry-level luxury car...."
Infiniti requires the use of premium fuel and clearly states that not using it will void the warranty. Here is what the 2014 Acura TL owner's manual says about fuel requirements:
Your vehicle is designed to operate on premium unleaded gasoline with a pump octane of 91 or higher. If this octane grade is unavailable, regular unleaded gasoline with a pump octane of 87 or higher may be used temporarily. The use of regular unleaded gasoline can cause metallic knocking noises in the engine and will result in decreased engine performance. The long-term use of regular-grade gasoline can lead to engine damage.
So about what midsize car you can get with manual...
There are four main choices here. The Honda Accord, the Ford Fusion, the Acura TSX and the VW Passat.
The Honda Accord is the lowest and most basic of the four because the manual is only available in the most basic trim model. There is a sport version, but it's overpriced bling (does nothing for the handling) and in any case, you get black or silver-gray as you only paint options. $21K for a car that looks like a cheap rental, with absolutely no options available. It's a shame, really, as the models with automatic are quite nice by comparison.
The next up the line is the Fusion. The manual is available on their mid-trim SE model only. You would have to special order it, but it does make the car quite nice to drive. The downside, though, is that the car has a very small engine that while it does the job quite well, is not going to impress anyone with its speed. That said, it is a nice looking and driving car.
The TSX was sold in Japan as the Accord until recently. What we get as the "Accord" over here is an odd in-between car, which is why it feels a little lacking. The current TSX is a new design based off of the old one, so it's basically the real deal and Honda's mainstream family sedan in the rest of the world. The downside is the price isn't very attractive any more. At almost $10K more than the Fusion or Accord, it's a lot to swallow, IMO. Still, $32K isn't $40K.
I rate the Passat as the best value for the money of the four and the best handling. Basically it's an Audi A4 without the bling. It'll run you typically $25K for one, nicely optioned out. I like the driving position and layout a bit better than the TSX, though it's not as well optioned or as plush inside. Then again, there is a $7K or so price difference, so that's to be expected. There also is a TDI option, which with manual is fun to drive and gets hybrid MPG without all of the batteries and stuff to eventually break.
You can still get an Accord EX cloth with a 6 speed manual. It's missing a few things, but it's quite nice for the c. $25k msrp. Includes moonroof, smart entry/pushbutton start, lanewatch, 17" alloys, 10-way power seat, etc.
And, although clearly it doesn't work for you, the Accord Sport has been called by some the best value on the new car market. The 18" premium tires and wheels are certainly "bling," but I think maybe a few tests have shown that there is a slight advantage in terms of cornering.
And the LX Accord with the 6-speed is a bargain. LX is no longer a "stripper" model but actually has a very nice level of equipment, including alloys, back up camera, dual zone climate control, etc.
You could get the Mazda6 touring as well for a street price of $23k or less which includes the following:
SKYACTIV-MT 6-Speed manual transmission, Dual-zone automatic climate control, 19-inch aluminum-alloy wheels, 6-way power driver's seat, Mazda Advanced Keyless Entry, Multi-function Commander control, Rear seat heat and A/C vents, Leatherette-trimmed seats, Blind Spot Monitoring System, Rear Cross Traffic Alert
well, if you hurry, the 2014 Legacy base comes with a stick. Looks like the redesigned 2015 eliminated that though.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
wayne21
Before you go out and do more research and copy and paste several manuals from luxury cars, let's just agree that MOST luxury or near luxury cars either require or recommend premium gas. I was specifically referring to the Acura RDX because I have one and know what the manual says and it says that 87octane is fine but you will get a little better performance with premium. It recommends premium, not require it. The TL is different. The two Lexus I referenced are kind of the exceptions in that they don't even recommend premium. I know what Infiniti requires because that's what I had before the Acura. My whole point was just that the statement was made that ALL luxury cars require premium fuel and that is just not the case. It was also inferred that all Acuras require premium fuel and that is just not the case either.
I don't like to buy premium anymore than anyone else if I don't have to. I can certainly afford it but unless spending extra cash really gets me something that I really want I just consider it foolish to do so. A couple of extra horsepower which I might only use on the rare occassion that I really get on it is simply not worth the extra expense to me. That's why I buy midgrade, kind of a compromise.
That's a pretty great deal on a great car. What's the msrp?
Mazda's Skyactiv includes some very impressive engineering. It also has the highest mpg of any midsize manual iirc. Beats the Accord by a few mpg city and highway.
benjaminh said: "The Acura engine is a bit souped up compared to the Accord's engine, but you are probably right that on regular the power drops close to the Accord level. But I'd say the Accord's is one of the nicest and most advanced engines in any midsize...."
Don't really understand why you think the Acura engine is souped up compared to the Accords'.
Acura RDX 3.5L is 273hp at 6200rpm, 251 ft lbs at 5000
Accord 3.5L is 278hp at 6200rpm, 252ft lbs at 4900
Acura has less hp and less torque. If anything the Accord is souped up. There is a lot of debate on the Acura forums as to why Acura is even recommending premium on this engine when the Accord and Odyssey engines are basically the same and obviously don't recommend premium.
The MSRP on the Mazda6 Touring w/stick is about $24,900. But street price, which you referred to on the Accord, is probably more like $22-23k.
@m6user - was lending credibility to the post. Question on your acura - do you notice wind noise? I'm considering the TLX when it comes out, but our accord had a lot of wind noise and when I do my googles it seems as though Honda motor company has had wind noise issues going all the way back to the 1976 accord.
I think Honda and Acura have finally gotten the memo on wind and road noise. Our 2008 Accord has a lot of both. But our 2013 Accord, in contrast, has a quiet and pleasant ride.
My bet is that the 2015 Acura TLX will be very quiet, since they obviously have to top the now-impressive Accord on that score.
I was thinking of the 2.4. On the Accord it's rated 185, while on the new TLX I think it's been modified a bit so that with premium fuel it gets 206. Hadn't checked the 3.5, since I'm not interested in it for mpg reasons—plus it's out of my price range. I'm surprised, however, that it's lower than the Accord!
@wayne21
Well, you have to consider that our other cars are an older Mazda6 and a Tundra.....both not known for a super quiet ride. However, I've taken the RDX on a couple of trips to Michigan and back and haven't been bothered by wind noise at all. Having said that, I sometimes crank up the volume on road trips so the ELS system in the Acura may very well cover up some noise. It has some kind of active sound deadening which I have no idea how it works. But to answer your question, unless you're really sensitive(or picky LOL) to it, I would say it's fine.
I have the '13 Accord EX-L CVT. Much different than in the past with regards to noise levels. A very quiet ride and great road trip car.
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
@m6user "But to answer your question, unless you're really sensitive(or picky LOL) to it, I would say it's fine".... could be the issue. I've driven our friends new accord (4 cyl exl) and the wind noise on the b pillar was so obvious to me, but neither he nor his wife heard anything. Last week, I went to lunch with an old friend in his new odyssey (the one with the vacuum cleaner). He's in his 70s, but we both heard wind noise. He said it was quiet until it got about 6,000 miles on it - at which point the wind noise started.
@wayne21
You know wind noise is present to some degree in every car at higher speeds and, like you said, some people are just more sensitive or bothered by it than others. I don't think it bothers me all that much or I probably wouldn't have purchased the Mazda6 originally. If you are, then I would never take anyone's word for it. If I was interested in a vehicle I would just go test drive it and make sure I got it up to high speed and tell the salesman to STFU so you can really hear the nuances of the vehicle noise. Cause I could tell you it sounds like a tomb and you could say it sounds like your on a 737 getting ready for take off! We would both be right.
I also have a 2013 RDX. I travel a lot with it, and IMO the wind noise is very muted. I'm sure you can hear some if you concentrate on it, but nothing intrusive, or that would drown out the radio or conversation.
I also have a 2000 TL, and find that to be quiet, as was the 2005 Accord I used to have. At least in terms of wind noise, but you do get some tire noise on certain road surfaces (that is a Honda tradition!)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I forgot about the Mazda. It's also a better choice than the Accord (and possibly the Fusion as well). The issue that I have with the Accord with manual is the lack of options, two terrible color choices, and a higher price for what you get than the competition. Is it good, yes. Is it clearly a penalty/stripper car that's trying to make you choose the automatic model with the better options? Of course it is. It's an old old trick to do this to make more money on the "better" car with automatic.
It's one of my pet peeves when you have to get the most basic model to get the manual. If I was living in Europe or Canada buying the exact same car, I certainly wouldn't be treated like some idiot by the auto maker.
Cloth and a choice between silver and steel for paint colors. For $25K. Are you sure this isn't GM?
Some dislike for Honda here?
How many manuals are left in the midsize market? Mazda, Honda, Ford, and VW iirc. They've died pretty much everywhere else. I give all of these manufacturers credit for keeping it alive (barely).
In terms of "options" Honda has never done that, going back to the 1970s. They do trim levels. Why? It simplifies manufacturing a little and thus raises quality.
And at this point the Accord doesn't really have a stripper model. As mentioned, even the LX has a lot of stuff standard that some of the competition doesn't have, like standard backup camera, alloys, dual zone climate, smart phone integration, etc.
Back in 2008 I was able to get an Accord EXL Navi with a manual. Had to special order it, but it was possible. But as everyone knows, the manual is dying, and so its availability is more limited now.
In terms of picking the Mazda6 manual over a Honda Accord manual that's a matter of taste and priories.
For faster acceleration times the manual Accord seems to be the choice. Car and driver has the manual Accord going 0-60 in 6.6 seconds. Some tests show the Mazda6 manual at about a second more. That's a significant difference.
The Accord is also superior to the Mazda6 in terms of: rear seat room, trunk space, visibility, etc.
And since there are a lot more Honda dealers than Mazda dealers, and Honda sells a heck of a lot more than Mazda, service and parts are easier to come by.
Most publications give the edge to the Mazda6 in terms of handling.
The EPA gives the edge to the Mazda6 manual for city/hwy combined mpg, but it's not a big difference: 29 for the Mazda6 manual compared to 28 for the Accord manual.
They are both good choices. Good cases can be made both ways.
Car and Driver on the Accord Sport manual, which is on their 10-best list:
“The Accord Sport is still a more gratifying car to heel-and-toe shift than most sports cars you could mention.”
"A six-speed Accord Sport sedan for $24,505 rates as the best all-around value for a new car, period."
And discounts of c. $2k off of msrp are possible.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/2014-10best-cars-feature
Again, the Mazda6 is a good choice too, but don't write off the Accord manual. Maybe try a test drive?
MT (July 2014) on the Mazda6's and Accord Sport's interior:
"If there's one thing most judges would change about the Mazda6, it would be the interior design. While the exterior styling was unanimously loved, many felt the cabin didn't receive the same amount of love from Mazda designers. 'The interior design is more conservative and cut-and-paste, a la other Mazda models,' said Martinez. Evans echoed, 'The interior is rather dark and boring. Needs some life.' Still, the Mazda had one of the largest back seats in the group by the factory-supplied measurements (subjective butt-on-bench ratings placed it third behind Accord and Altima), and ergonomics were a strong point."
"The Accord was similarly lambasted, despite its hugely roomy interior. From Lieberman's notepad: 'I didn't really care for the interior. The white polka dots on black plastic seemed particularly poor to me. Looks-wise, there's not much there.' Burgess also wasn't impressed, saying, 'There's a lot of hard plastic throughout the cabin, and it feels like one of the cheaper models overall.' Another annoyance: The Accord was the only car in the group to have a single-piece rear folding seat, rather than a split design."
I find the single-piece folding rear seat on the Accord, here in 2014, to be inexcusable. Heck, even my lowly Kia Rio has a split-folding rear seat! It also has a lot of hard plastic in the interior, but it's only a $16k car, not a $25k car like the Accord Sport that MT tested.
Polka dots?
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
The Accord EX is pretty evenly matched w/ the Mazda6 touring equipment wise. If anything the nod goes to the Accord with the sunroof. Not really a penalty car. The I4 Accord has 3 versions with a stick. LX, Sport and EX. Only the EXL is off the list. So three out of 4 models is not really just the stripper model. In reality they left it off of just the "fluffer".
Now I agree that Honda should offer the stick on all of them, and I am not a huge fan of leaving a stick off of the top model, but they all do it.
I'm with the 96 percent who don't see a reason the buy a mid size sedan with a stick. Something smaller or a powerful coupe is something I would consider buying with a manual transmission.
No, because GM doesn't do that. It was Honda who began the practice of only offering 3-5 colors on most models, no choice of interior, take it or leave it. And the public bought them in droves anyway.
And for the record, in Canada, Honda offers you a grand total of 3 colors on the LX manual, black, silver or gray, all with a gray cloth interior. On the Sport they strangely also offer it in blue or white, but drop the silver, all with a black interior.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
As far as I care we can change it to the "General sedans/sport sedans" forum, or anything but minivans and Priususes....and SUV's UNLESS underpinned by a sedan platform/frame.
It gets old talking about mid size sedans, and I routinely would love to talk about 4 doors with more power.
"It's overpriced bling (does nothing for the handling) "21k for a car that looks like a cheap rental".
Really? What would you rather rent? I like the Accord Sport with the 18" rims, fogs, and excellent manual seats with a slick shifting six speed. Car and Driver, Motor Trend, road and Track, and even Autoweek liked it too. You seem to be a voice in the wilderness. Have you ever driven one? You know, I have Sirius and never ever use or pay for it. Navigation? I don't know about you, but I have a Garmin Nuvi and a Samsung S3 for directions.
I think it is an attractive, 4 door sedan that exactly targets its buyers. "cheap rental"? I think you are driving an LX, not a Sport.
I think Plekto is just stating he'd like to see higher end availability with stick shifts rather than being stuck in the lower end models to get it. That used to be the case with cars like Honda. I don't think he's really knocking the Accord per se, just doesn't see value in the sport version vice it's price differential. Different strokes for different folks!
Zicke, zacke, zicke, zacke, hoi, hoi, hoi
It is an unusual pattern... I would not call it "polka dots", but it sure ain't carbon fiber or whatever they're pretending it is. That said, it's better than faux wood or faux aluminum IMHO.
I sat in a recent Lincoln MKZ (? the 4 door sedan) with the tan leather and very light blond faux wood. Nasty looking.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Just came to celebrate my productive holiday weekend. I now have, in my two-car garage... TWO cars! Huzzah!
The old Yukon (XL) never had a chance of fitting in the garage at this house, so we left it out and I shoved all the stuff to one side and parked my new Accord inside. When we sold it and got her Pathfinder (I've never had two new cars at the same time before), I decided this was going to happen. So the wheelbarrow and a large deck box for kids' stuff went to the back yard. Installed 24' of Rubbermaid FastTrack with a couple dozen hooks for bikes, tools, chairs, sports equipment, etc., and 12' of shelving for Xmas decorations and camping gear.
It's not at all "roomy" with both cars in, and one has to back out to get the kids' bikes, or lawn equipment off the wall. I'd also like some more racks suspended from the ceiling, and maybe a shed in the back yard too, to really open things up and make room for a workbench. But I am very satisfied for now.
Here's a review of the Accord Sport manual, just published today. A bit of a puff piece but possibly useful:
http://www.autos.ca/car-test-drives/test-drive-2014-honda-accord-sport-manual-transmission/
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Then your choices are limited to low end and high end. You can get a Mazda 6 Sport i , Honda Accord Sport (my choice), or a wheezing 1.8 liter 170 HP turbo Passat. Also, you may be able to get. 2.0 liter Passat w/ 220HP in a stick. Now that would be nice. Also, don't dismiss the Golf GTI. Good car. Also, why not a babied 2007 BMW E46 model. You can get a inline 6 with 235 HP, no turbo, and it is the preferred car for BMW enthusiasts since it has NO 4 CYLINDER, no (hated) start-stop system, now, you CAN have that start-stop software disabled at the BMW shop permanently), and a great 6 speed manual. You can pick one up for $25,000. Seriously. The 2007 is the best BMW in my book.
Other than that, drive a BMW or Audi..... or a Nissan Performance product called the Versa. I hear they are great! (Kidding)
Also, you could choose the 320i BMW that will not break the bank, has a 2.0 Turbo engine,180 HP, 200 lb Ft, and can easily boosted back to 240 HP and 250 lb Ft with a firmware upgrade. The zero to 60 time on that $32k BMW is 6.5 seconds, easily passing my 200 HP, 186 lb Ft with 1.5 seconds faster than mine and I bet $29,999 would seal the seal, but mane sure to buy the $1300 "M" performance pack, that included 18" rims, and various bushings, bearings, and anti roll bar settings that really make things fun in the 320i. Again, I can't afford a new Turbo-charged 4 cyl 328, but the 2007 is my favorite model. More of a purists model. Also, it is the very best of the 3.0 liter in-line 6, and I would get the 6 speed manual. This would be my "second car" if I had a garage, or $25,000, and a very very good friend that is a BMW master mechanic.
As cski says, the BMW 320i is compelling. It's grown and is now 182.5 inches long, which is almost the size of a Honda Accord in c. 1995 (184 inches).
The thing about a 320i is that BMW charges extra for a lot of stuff that's standard on others. For instance, even an Accord LX has a standard back-up camera. On a BMW 320i that adds $950. Want a color aside from white or black on your 320i? Well, that's another $550.
If you get a 320i in white with one option, the back-up camera, it has a list of $34,650. You'll probably never be able to find one in stock like that, and so you'd have to special order it.
The 320i is an awesome car, but for a list of $34,270 you can get a loaded to the gills Accord Touring with a V-6. Unless you get the software update suggested by cski, a Touring is faster than a 320i.
Still, I have to admit a 320i sounds like it would be more fun to drive.
The 320i is far from "awesome."
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Well, maybe compared to regular midsize cars it's impressive, at least?
And your AWD overweight 328 ix is? My point was making it easier for mid size budget guys (and you seem to include yourself with us) to move up to a great driving and handling car.
I don't recall ever disrespecting your posts, so I would appreciate that you would not either.
On a different subject I took out a Mazda 6 Touring today for a test drive (while mine was in for it's $30,000 service at Kia directly across the street.) and I w's really, really, impressed. It is a better car than mine, hands down. From the steering to the throttle to the suspension, I think it is a great poor man's BMW.
I initially wanted to take home a 2014 OPTIMA Turbo, but the sales manager said their insurance would not cover it. Then they called and said they couldn't get it done till tomorrow morning, so I drove across the street (in the Mazda) and said hey, Mazda had NO problem letting me have this overnight... take your time. (sales managers smile faded VERY quickly).
I liked the Mazda salesman too. He took the time to go through my car, and 5 mins later her brings round a red Touring (19" wheels) with tan and black interior. I don't know what all the complaining is about the interior. I found it refined and understated. It is a dealer swap too, so it has 120n miles on it. If they can sell it for 26, and get me 17 for mine..... done deal.
cski: Wow--you might be getting a Mazda6?! Congrats! That's a big change.
No test drive for the Accord Sport? Maybe should give that a spin? Brian's our resident expert on Accord pricing, but I think an Accord Sport auto with paddle shifters can be had for c. 22.5 k or so. Brian? Acceleration of the Accord Sport does seem to have an edge over the Mazda6.
But that Mazda6 Touring sounds sweet.
It was thje materials that won me over. The Accord looked like graphics from 1989 Galaga compared to the Mazda dash. Very well laid out, not a lt pf flash...perfect for me. SO, I find out Friday. In comparison, the Optima is like a Buick with a "sport" mode. The Mazda is a very, very sporty car.
But did you test drive an Accord? Not only is it faster than a 6, it has a bigger back seat and bigger trunk. Seems like you're a lost cause, however--lol! You've fallen in love with the 6. Good choice.
In any case, that Mazda6 should be a big step up in driving dynamics from your Optima. Should get better mpg too.
I don't understand how the Accord can be faster than the Mazda6. The 6 has about the same horsepower and torque if not more and reaches at lower RPMs for both than the Accord. The Mazda6 even weighs a little less. Must be gearing I guess because the Mazda6 gets better MPG.
cski....don't think nycarguy was disrespecting your post at all. Think you read it wrong. Anyway, congrats on the new car if it happens. If it does, I look forward to copious perspectives from you.
The Accord Sport and Mazda6 are pretty close on acceleration and mpg.
Motor Trend recently wrote:
"In sheer numbers, the Honda proved to be a sports car in sedan clothing. With a 0-60-mph run in 7.5 seconds and a stop from the same speed in just 115 feet, the Accord and its 189-hp, 2.4-liter I-4 led at the test track."
But then again, the Mazda6 was second in acceleration, and overall won MT's comparison.
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1405_2014_2015_midsize_sedans_the_big_test/#ixzz3722lwx6E
In handling, every test seems to show that the Mazda6 is the leading midsize car. The Accord often comes in 2nd place there.
But for interior room, the Accord is first or close to first. Total passenger volume is 103.2 for the Accord, 102.2 for the Optima, and 99.7 for the 6.
Cargo room follows a similar patterns, with the Accord at 15.8, the Optima at 15.4, and the 6 at 14.8.
Basically the Accord has a bigger back seat and bigger trunk. In terms of front seat room and comfort they are probably very close to being similar.
@cski
I most certainly did not mean any disrespect towards you or your post. The current generation F30 BMW 320i is certainly a nice car. I've had one as a loaner once. While it is far from a road rocket, the 320i is a solid highway cruiser and provides adequate acceleration. I do like the larger size, bigger trunk, & great cup holders. I even think the chassis is stronger & more agile than my E90 328xi. The problem is that I don't KNOW. The electric power steering provides absolutely ZERO feedback & the suspension is tuned way too soft for my liking. Try optioning up that 320i like it is an Accord Touring and any value quotient gets washed away rather quickly.
The first BMW I ever drove was a friend's 1995 E36 BMW 325is (sport pkg - manual transmission). After barely knowing how to drive a stick, I was speeding through the streets of downtown Buffalo, NY and using the throttle to rotate the car around corners by the end of the night. That one drive made me lust after BMWs for the next 12 years when I finally leased a 2007 X3 for my wife. Then in 2012 traded in my perfectly good 2010 Acura TSX Tech for my current (and soon to be departed) 2011 328xi. I don't get that from a 320i or really any of BMW's current offerings. I even have a friend with a 2013 F10 ///M5 that is mega fast, but not what I'd pay $120K for.
Many don't understand that with the BMW, you are paying for that dedicated RWD chassis that is more expensive to design & produce than Honda's "global mid sized platform."
I happen to LOVE my E90 328xi. I think it is a fantastic car. But I wouldn't classify it as "awesome" either.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD