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The Jetta used to be a fun funky compact car and now its big and eh, not as exciting as the previous generations. I used to think the 99 to 05(?) Jettas were cool with the 1.8t, now not as much. The early 90s Accord felt very athletic and was fun to drive, the current one, not as much.
That doesn't mean all is lost, it is cyclical, especially with certain OEMs. The 80s Jetta was cool at the time, the early '00 Jetta was cool, but the 90s was not kind to VW. The early 90s Mazda 626 was cool, the next (mid 90s to early 00s)model lost its edge, and then they came back with the Mazda6.
I think Car and Drive does a hits and misses issue every so often, I think they pick up on this cycle.
Couldn't agree with you more! Driving doesn't have to be a chore... to me it's one of the few times during my workdays where I can have moments of exhilaration even when driving within the limits of the law. Of course I love the fact that I can run up to Home Depot and fit some items into my Mazda6 hatchback that would never fit in a sedan and be able to drive home gently without breaking anything.
I do think zoom-zoom has done a lot to get Mazda more recognized, and it does sum up their core philosophy well. It is after all, one of the most recognized phrases that's associated with a brand and Mazda would be foolish to abandon it. But the Mazda6 is so much more than zoomx2; it would sell much better imo if they would emphasize its practical side more along with it's innovative features (ie: hatchback w/ spring loaded rear seats, v-6 w/ mtx, speed adjusted volume for the radio). Midsize buyers want more than just fluff and fun emotions or else they'd be buying a sports car or a compact. I'm sure there's a way for Mazda to mix fun and zoomx2 w/ something more practical and useful.
zoomx2 is much more than straight line speed (though the Mazda6 v-6 w/ a mtx has been tested to do 0-60 in the mid 6's). It's about balance, responsiveness, and handling. It's about being able to go around corners with confidence and a car that grips the road "tenaciously" as some car reviewers have put it. It's about having among the best brakes in this segment which allows for late braking into corners or avoiding bad drivers. But most of all, zoom-zoom is about having a bigger smile getting out of your car than when you got in it.
and fyi...there's only been one generation of the mazda6 and it is current.
Anyway, wouldn't the zoomzoom be a bigger ZOOM if the 3.0 were taken out and the turbocharged 2.3 from the speed3 were put in? You'd get more horsepower and torque, and you'd lighten the car, especially on the front end. Sounds like a win-win ZOOM ZOOM scenario to me!
I absolutely agree that the fun in driving a car does come from taking the twisties faster, and being able to, and being able to w/o stressing the car too much. The confidence you feel when you drive and are planted and railed to the road. However, all of this, should come with a powerful motor, so you can accelerate quickly out of those sharp corners, or have some fun in a straight line too. 200HP + 200lb/ft of torque works quite well for this if you can keep it at 3,300 lbs or under. The A3 is the perfect example and Audi's best brain child to date. However, the A3's 200 horses feel like 230 or so, and the 207 lb/ft of torque comes on at 1800 RPM, I don't even have to look up the 3.0 Duratec stats to know it doesn't match those figures at that low in the RPM scale. All this, and a 2.0 is a lot lighter and better balanced setup than a big hulking 3.0 V6.
Come on..... admit it.... you'd exchange that Duratec for the 3.0 Honda V6 244 HP master engine in a heartbeat if you could. If you gotta go up to a 3.0 V6, you gotta go 240 HP +.
Wow, that is totally a great idea. Just in case you were hanging out under a rock for the last 2 years...
MazdaSpeed6
If you look at the Cadillac CTS, you see a very similar pattern. Loads of low-end torque thanks to the VVT engine. It never bogs down or had throttle-lag as a result. The GM 3.6 is a fantastic engine. Now if they could only manage to make a 2.0L version of it and strap a supercharger on it...
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The engine is different, in that it is tuned for more horsepower and such. The speed3 and speed6 do not have identical powertrains.
Also, the MazdaSpeed6 has a whole lot more than just a better engine than the regular 6. Therefore it's not in the same ballpark cost wise either. I'm saying just make an even steven trade of engines.... w/o beefing up the brakes, suspension ect.
Look at the rims on this Fusion and then go over the GMinsidenews.com and look at the 08 Saab 9-3.
Exact same rims...fromt he exact same angles.
Edit: Better yet, VVT and direct injection, plus those electronic valves(no cams anymore!). All three together would net you about 250HP near as I can figure, while getting 35mpg highway.
Oh, I get the "car". I like the Mazda6. It looks great, and I'm sure I would enjoy driving one. I just don't get the "Zoom-Zoom" ads. The little kid saying Zoom-Zoom gives me visions of my son playing with his toy cars when he was 5. The ads are immature, in my opinion. They should have people in their ads who actually have a driver's license. :confuse:
But I wouldn't take the Honda engine if I had to deal with their suspension, steering, and especially their weak brakes. Do I think the Mazda6 would be better with a more powerful engine? Yeah, the Mazdaspeed6 is an amazing car that I'd love to have. And even though it weighs a couple hundred pounds more, it still handles amazing. One more thing...what would an extra 30 HP do for this car anyway? Well, a cold air intake adds about 15 wheel HP to the 6, and maybe shaves 2 tenths off the 0-60 times if I remember correctly. Not a big deal.
But after driving that car for around curvy roads I know well, I didn't feel bad about getting back into my car. For one, my car is paid for. But more importantly, I really like my car. I like how it looks, love the way it drives, I'm still amazed at how much stuff I can put in the back of a hatchback.
And it is plenty fast. The duratec, though not the best or most powerful in this class, is still really good; it's smooth, sounds great when revved up and it loves to rev. And keeping the rpm's up above 2.7k rpm where it starts to pull pretty well is easy to do if you want to keep the car motivated. One thing I like about the duratec more than legacy GT or MS6 motors is that the power comes on in more of a linear way that is more predictable which is especially valuable in traffic.
Now I love honda. I've had great experiences with their cars and power equipment for many years, and I follow what Honda does closely (from solar panels, to the innovative way they save $ on cooling their factory in summer, their jet plane, new diesel, their robot, F1 racing, CART and IRL etc etc) because I respect and admire much of what they do. But at this point in time with the choices that are available today, I would get a Mazda6 for the same amount of money as an Accord in a heartbeat. To me it looks better, drives better, holds more, is just as safe, and has more personality.
And is smaller as well. Which may matter for some folks.
I hope they're not thinking of reusing the current 3.0 either.
By "the real thing" do you mean a model or is there a one-off of the 2009? Please elaborate.
zzzoom6: "But I wouldn't take the Honda engine if I had to deal with their suspension, steering, and especially their weak brakes."
While the Accord's handling is fine for me (I can heel-toe brake/downshift and then gas it through a turn as fast as I'd ever want to go on the street), I admit it doesn't feel quite as good as the Mazda6. In fact today after a ligth rain, it surprised me by sliding the back end wide at a pretty low speed, maybe 10-15 mph. That may have been the Turanzas (tires) but still.
However, I certainly wouldn't pick on the steering feel or the brakes in the Accord.
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The Accord was on my short list of cars I was going to buy... but after doing the research to see what the percentage difference in reliability between the Mazda6 and the Accord and it being just a couple percent difference over a five year period, I came to the conclusion that I'd rather have the more responsive car that could haul more (I had owned an Accord hatchback and a Legacy wagon previously and found it really handy to have that big of an opening in the back to put bigger things in there). So bottom line, the Accord is a great value and an awesome car...but for me the Mazda6 got my pick.
got to be fun driving those things.
Ford showed employees the "showroom of tomorrow" where they saw the 09 Fusion (not sure if it was a real design prototype or a drawing) among other new vehicles. One of those people said this rendering is very very close.
OIC. Thanks for the additional information, Allen. It will be interesting to see the final product when the time comes. It will be equally interesting to see if FoMoCo is willing to make the necessary commitment required to stay competitive in the mid-size sedan segment again, a market it once dominated with the Taurus.
Ford, and the Fusion, are the underdogs now as the Camry and Accord are the bosses. The big boys on the block. I could be wrong but I believe the Malibu also outsells the Fusion, though I can't fathom why. Anybody know for sure?
Regards:
OldCEM
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Dismal mpg and poor build quality so why bother with a fusion?
Does it include the extra fees some dealers try to add on after the final price? What about fluff and stuff like waxes, mudflaps, strips, 3M protectant sprayed on seats.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Dismal mpg and poor build quality so why bother with a fusion?
Generally speaking, when making semi-inflammatory remarks, unless you are a politician its moderately important to make sure they are correct.
The Ford 500 is becoming the new Taurus. The Fusion is staying the Fusion and current discussion is about the '09 update. The 500 is considered a "large car" so isn't the subject of this forum. It is interesting that you comment on the build quality because you are the first to mention any issues with that in this forum.
I noticed you only have about 50 posts and haven't been a member that long. Welcome to Carspace and I would work on finding out the appropriate forums for posting about particular vehicles, and making sure my facts were straight before posting.
I'm sure it doesn't include these add-ons. Some dealers will add these, and some will not. If the dealer tries to charge you for something you don't want, tell them you refuse to pay for it. These add-ons are typically overpriced.
If you look at his bio he certainly has enough late model cars under his belt to make an opinion about the Fusion. He was incorrectd on the rebadge, but gave an opinion on the Fusion.
Keen observation.
Actually it only looks like he has ever had Toyotas (and mostly SUVs), and most of his other posts in forums were refuting the complaints others had about Toyotas.
I did a little more reasearch on that Fusion rendering and found the same think you did akirby. Adding to that though I found out that the interior will be refreshened as well and that radio "brick" is apparently going bye bye. If you look at the center stack of the new Escape or that of the Flex that might give you an idea of which way Ford is going with their interiors. Definitely an improvement but not the greatest IMO.
Engine choices will supposedly be the PIP Duratec30 I mentioned a month or two ago which is supposed to have 244 HP and get "considerably better gas mileage than the new D35", which gets better mileage than the current D30 already, according to the source from Ford. Choice #2 will be a new 2.5L I4 making 190 HP, and again, "making considerably better mileage...". Choice 3, and these next two are what I've heard little about elsewhere, a 260+ HP DI 2.5L Turbo I4 which should get better fuel econ than the V6. Choice 4: a full hybrid, call it Ford's gen II hybrid system if you will. Different from the current Escape's gen I system.
The Escape will supposedly get Choices 1, 2, and 4 in '09 as well FWIW.
Pretty interesting I think. Especially the turbo I4 if that is in fact true. I don't see why not though. :confuse:
Well, not counting SUBcompacts.
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Suppose these will also be the engines for the redesigned Mazda6, maybe the 2.5L Turbo being a revised version of the current MazdaSpeed 2.3L?
I'd like to see these changes actually implemented in 2009. I've always wondered if Ford would leave the Fusion as-is for far too long, letting it fall further and further behind as the competition improves. Assuming they keep pricing the same, the new sheet metal and engines should be enough for the car to gain some more sales momentum in 2009.
I think it was last year or the year before that they vowed to "refresh" every model each year or two with total re-designs every 5 or 6 years. Probably to keep in line with the competition I'd guess.
No official confirmation has been made on the next Mazda6 engine yet but it has been confirmed to debut at Frankfurt this year. Most of the info I've gathered lists the NA 2.5L I4 and a Mazda exclusive version of the Duratec35 as the engine choices. The other engine that popped up, rumor as of now, was not the DI turbo 2.5L but rather a DI Duratec37 making 300 HP. MAZDASPEED maybe? :surprise: It will be interesting to see what they do as I think the 3.7L was confirmed for the CX-9 already.
Wow, those engine choices are pretty exciting.
The V6, which is the big seller in the Fusion right now, is probably the least exciting but it is still pretty good news. Especially if they can and do offer the more fuel efficient, probably in a limited production performance edition of course, turbo DI I4. Maybe SVT will rise again soon. :shades:
Don't you mean the TL? The TSX is going to be in a league of it's own now that the 6 and the Altima are larger. Plus the TSX is the Euro Accord while the TL is the U.S. Accord IIRC. No?
And what makes you think a dumbed down version of the TSX would be better than the future 6 when the current TSX isn't even better than the current 6? If you go by price and features then you're stepping into MAZDASPEED6 territory and there's simply no contest between that and the TSX.
Disagree on one hand, agree on the other. Both could be in this segment with different emphasis. Although I believe it's a moot point, as I don't think Honda would do it. However, should they do it, they have the cache to sell a lot of cars.
As for the Accord, I doubt Honda will want to go for the fringe "sporty" market with the mainstream sedans. I could see a coupe that gets an "s" type treatment though with a firmer suspension, 6 spd manual, extra power, and maybe even SHawd or mugen treatments. That's what I'm hoping for actually... that could be an amazing car. The great thing with this step is that it could attract a whole new customer group (sport oriented) without alienating its core customer while adding some charisma to the Honda name, much like the Civic SI has done. But in the end, I think Honda would be concerned about poaching sales away from Acura, so I'm not holding my breath.
Mazda, on the other hand, has shown it wants to own the fun-to-drive-without-bmw-payments segment and not worry about competition with sister companies. But I think their concern is that the 6 does not go to far out there where it's appeal is too limited and result in huge discounts like there are now. Really, I think all that Mazda needs to do for a successful new generation of the 6 is to make it a little larger and give it a bit more sound dampening at highway speeds while retaining fun to drive character. And more power as is being speculated would be :shades: :shades: :shades:
Agreed. The more the better I say. :shades:
Keeps the other mfrs on their toes too.