IIRC, the inline 6 in the old Trailblazer is a modular engine. I imagine it could see 2 more cyl, and be a nice 350 hp 4.8L inline 8. No sense letting that engine go to waste!
"..... seriously doubt Lemko is getting anywhere near 30mpg on the hwy w/o driving 50mph."
My father did that w/ his '88 back in '91, and returned 34 mpg (doing 50....F&%^i*& old fart!!!) My Ultra will get between 30 and 33 doing 55-70, and my uncle used to get 29 all day long going back and forth to Florida from RI doing 75-80.
Here is a list of all employees making $100k to $200k in Vallejo,CA about 250 of them most police/fire. 30 + make between $200k-$300k. 2 make over $300k. Throw in benies + pension and they are making an obscene amount of money.
BTW a seasoned software engineer makes between $120-$150k in SF as a reference and Vallejo is out in the boondocks of the Bay Area. Unions in the public sector are going to bankrupt CA soon since they pretty much have paid off all the politicians.
".....Our currency has been in trouble for a very long time. Now the UN wants to do away with the dollar. Go to a universal form of exchange. This Congress and President LOVE the stinking UN so we may see the end of the greenback and become just another country in the global community."
Interesting propsition, that would be. Giving up the greenback would be, IMO, the ULTIMATE form of a peacetime surrender. Which begs the question; are we ceding (financial) power to other countries by virtue of our embracing of a "global economy"? Bob uses the example of the imported, $12 shirts at Walmart vs a mythical $40, union made domestic shirt. But aren't we in some ways lowering our standard of living by allowing such a huge trade deficit?
If, for arguments sake we "closed" out society and made and bought only our products (I know, OVERLY simplistic) would we not have a standard of living that would allow us to buy 10 $40 shirts??
I know that scenario is not realistic, not in this day and age, but since we give countries like Germany, Britain, Russia, and China equal political "respect" via the UN (as we should), all of a sudden they think they are our equals. Well, they are NOT!! They do not equal us in Financial, political, or military might. We may not be THEIR leader specifically,but we are THE WORLD leaders, and we should be given the respect we deserve for that.
"Bob uses the example of the imported, $12 shirts at Walmart vs a mythical $40, union made domestic shirt. But aren't we in some ways lowering our standard of living by allowing such a huge trade deficit?
If, for arguments sake we "closed" out society and made and bought only our products (I know, OVERLY simplistic) would we not have a standard of living that would allow us to buy 10 $40 shirts??"
But let's follow your overly simplistic example (BTW, everything has to be overly simplistic here, as we cannot develop 100 page theses to "prove" our points)...
I believe you are saying that we could shut our doors to imports, and those mythical $40 shirts would be the only shirts we could buy, so we would support our own industry...if I am correct (a big if, I realize), my opinion is that we would only buy a few shirts each, not enough to support the numbers of workers needed to maintain the mass production lines to make the shirts...
I am not think of the rich doctor who spends $100 each on custom shirts...I am thinking of the average person, making $10-25/hour (broad range, I know), who needs to buy, say, 6-10 shirts, enough to go over a week without running out...would that person spend $40 on 10 shirts ($400.00), or would he (or she) only buy 2-3 shirts because $400 is too much of the family budget on shirts...now, the same shirt from WalMart at $12, ten shirts is now $120.00...
Keeping out the imported shirts will, by definition, mean that only American made shirts are purchased, but, IMO, in vastly lower numbers because the shirts are too expensive...so, yes, we would have a domestic shirt industry, but would it be a niche industry due to excessive cost or mass production supporting thousands of workers???...I simply do not think that 1000s of workers would have jobs as the production volume, IMO, simply will not be there...it would only be a niche industry, nothing this nation would depend on...
Despite my opinions, and my off-the-cuff economic thoughts, I realize I could be dead wrong...
WalMart does not sell $$$Billions of products because someone holds a gun to the heads of buyers...they sell it because people can afford it, and it is NOT a budget buster for the average (or not so average) American family...they buy stuff because it is cheaper...
Remember, too, that by saving money at walmart, the family may have money left over to take the family to a restaurant for dinner, thereby supporting the restaurant and the cook and server...if that money was spent on $40 shirts that left the family with no extra money, the restaurant closes because no one has the money to eat out...
So, if we import from China, the shirt worker loses but the restaurant thrives...if we close out imports, the shirt worker wins, but the restaurant loses...the difference is that by allowing imports, the American buyer has CHOICE where to spend his available income...by closing out imports, YOU have dictated where he must spend his money, because shirts take too much of his available income to buy...my way he has freedome to choose...your way he does not...
There may be a net change of zero, because if the restaurant people all have jobs due to the buyer's available income, then don't those jobs fill the gap of the lost shirtworker jobs???...the difference being that the shirtworkers may stand as a group of thousands, but each neighborhood restaurant is independent, but the jobs created in one industry make up for the jobs lost in another industry, except that one group of workers (shirts) make more noise for the TV cameras, whereas the restaurant workers and small groups of 5-15 but they may add up to the number of shirtworker jobs, but they simply do not make enough noise for the TV cameras...is this creative destruction???...we lose it on one VISIBLE side, but gain it back on the INVISIBLE side, as the small groups of restaurant workers are virtually invisible, but yet they are present in all those restaurants...
Thank you for setting the record straight. I was just pointing out to our friend that the UAW is not the only Union driving the country into bankruptcy. He seems to think we can pay WalMart greeters $25 per hour with full pension and benefits and still keep the country solvent. I think the $trillions we are going to have in deficit over the next several years will be evidence his ideas will not fly.
As far as the porker cop. I hope he is not the one I get when I call 911.
Bellevue Police Lt. Mark Elbert has said Parent, whose 2005-issued Nebraska driver’s license listed him at 5-foot-9 and 300 pounds, was fired under a policy that requires officers to be physically fit.
Rocky would be right on the picket line defending this guys job. The reason Unions are losing market share and will continue to lose. Can you make $300k as a cop in Detroit?
Meter maids in Anchorage made $85k 20 years ago. So it is all relative.
Of course you do. I might add when we do get back our seamstress that will want to buy a car from slick Rocky, she will need to make the same $25 per hour the auto workers are getting. Of course they will go on strike because there is no way a seamstress is worth the same as a hard working UAW hand. So they need to go up to $50 per hour to keep the same class difference they currently enjoy over most of the workforce in the USA. There is no way a "SKILLED" lug nut assembler will work for the same pay as a Walmart greeter that just signed on to a lucrative Union contract. So we will have massive inflation somewhat like the late 1970s when we were in a similar recession.
From that standpoint, absolutely. My thinking was from a Standard of Living view.
Let's say that in today's society, the average worker can buy 6 shirts at $12 apiece, and still afford to go out to eat. Under MY scenario, they would STILL be able to buy the 6 shirts they need at $40, AND go out to eat, because their standard of living is still equal under your scenario. THEIR paycheck would theoretically be larger because of all those garment workers here earning good money are spending money buying the products that the shirtbuyer makes, AND eating out at those same restaurants that the shirtbuyer does.
40 years ago, suppose we took a job in a factory at 10% above min wage, or $1.75/hr. A 40 hr week would give us a $300/month salary. If our wives worked part time for min., say 25 hrs a week, that's another $170 a month. How much would a $12,000 mortgage be??? $65/month??? What was a steak dinner?? $1.75? $2? Car payment $40? Groceries, $20? Taxes on the house? $30? Uncle Sam got what, $170 out of that $470/mo gross pay? Think of that. Minimum wage. One full time, one part time. A house. A car.
Today, could ANYBODY afford a house or a car on those comparable wages? 2 minimum wage (or just above) jobs at the above 65 combined hrs. would net you around $3,000 a month. What's the house now? $200,000? That's $1100. Taxes? $300. Groceries? $350 Car payment? $400
We rely on credit far more now than we did back then because our salary structure has constant DOWNWARD pressure on it from these emerging countries, therefore we struggle to maintain our Standard of Living.
Let's look at the situation you are referring to. Houses we looked at in 1969 for $25.000 brand new were in the $600K range at the peak of the market. That is 24 times more expensive. New car is at least 10 times the 1970 price. I was a senior CO tech at that time with Pac Bell. Making $4.83 per hour. Logically I should be making $116 per hour to afford that house when it peaked. Yet people bought houses all along. Over 90% are making their payments every month. So what I would get from those higher costs is our standard of living has decreased since 1970. Though most people working seem to have a car and a home.
By the way we did not buy a house as we thought it was too much money to spend. we kept renting at $60 per month till I left for Alaska.
The currency manipulation would only affect cars imported in to the U.S. Right now Toyota, makes an extra $4,000-$13,000 because the Japanese have their currency artificially low and we have allowed them for years to get away with it. If they don't want to address the issue then we as a nation need to take matters into our own hands and slap a tariff on all imports. FYI- GM, does not make more than half of there cars sold in the U.S. out of the country!!!
GM, is not dead and isn't going to die!!!..... I might be able to drive it here soon when I go to Detroit, with the owners son. I don't need to drive it too know it will far exceed the last generation.
They have 10 days to get their act together if they are to survive. Something has to give. Why would the bondholders offer to cut 50% of what is owed them if the UAW is not willing to do likewise. How are the UAW retirees any more important than the retirees with money invested in GM via their 401K plans? Look at the big picture. How can the Feds give GM money and not offer a gift to Ford? That makes the playing field uneven as you are always pointing out.
Ford Motor Co., the second-largest U.S. automaker, hasn’t requested assistance. GM, the biggest, received $13.4 billion in aid so far and has requested as much as $16.6 billion more. Chrysler got $4 billion and wants $5 billion more. To keep the aid, the automakers must reach cost-cutting agreements.
GM’s Talks
Rick Wagoner, GM’s chief executive officer, said in an interview March 19 that the automaker hasn’t completed talks with the United Auto Workers and bondholders about cutting debt by $28.5 billion. The failure of those talks could drag Detroit- based GM into bankruptcy and possible liquidation, Wagoner said.
Rattner said he may set a deadline for parties including the UAW and GM bondholders to reach a deal.
“Part of why there’s a lack of appearance of movement is nobody wants to go first,” he said. “You say here’s the deadline, everybody has to get there by this date or we’re going to do something else.”
LOL...I have been just dating her for 15 months and is the first female in my life I can call my best friend. It probably won't advance beyond best friends until I go from "legally seperated" to divorced. :sick: She was born and raised a republican. Yeah she can't be perfect I suppose and that is her one major flaw I'm trying my hardest to over look. HaHaHaHa!!! :P :P :P :P
She likes cars but not as much as I do. Her dream car would be a CTS AWD w/ a manual gearbox which they don't make. She is currently leasing a Red Jewel 08' 2LT Chevy Malibu.
Right now Toyota, makes an extra $4,000-$13,000 because the Japanese have their currency artificially low
Right now Toyota is not making anything on the boatloads of Toyotas sitting on cargo ships. Keep in mind that 56% of the vehicles sold by Toyota in the USA are Made in the USA. Not Canada or Mexico as are GM vehicles with that logo. I don't see how the Feds can keep bailing out GM & C without offering the same to all US auto plants. It is just unfair and probably unconstitutional. I say let the chips fall where they may. We will get out of this mess a lot quicker if the Feds just butt out.
You might want to look at the Japanese economy. They are in worse shape than we are. They have done what this Congress are doing now in the 1990s and have yet to come out of the mess they made. The Japanese Unions have already done their handy work in that society and brought them to their knees.
>Her dream car would be a CTS AWD w/ a manual gearbox which they don't make.
I want a CTS-V like tested on Motorweek vs a BMW M5. The CTS has automatic and M5 has manual. It still beat the M5 and came in $25,000 less. (The price is from memory, they said you could buy an M1, whatever that is, with the difference in price!). Considering I rarely pay attention to Motorweek "guys" because of their bias and their "oddity," I just happened to watch as I had my first cup of coffee.
They even found fault with their Honda Fit long term test car. Tinny doors and weak motor. The weak motor comment they hid in subordinate clauses and phrases rather than coming out and saying motor is weak.
So is Gettelfinger going to accept lower wages for the oldies but goodies so the company can continue to have them at the trough, or will Gettelfinger force GM into bankruptcy so the weaker Ford survives?
I see....How much does a home cost in that city??? I watch my share of HGTV and like programs like flip that house and a small modest home will run you more than a million bucks in San Fran. So perhaps they are making a bit more than they should but based on cost of living in California, from what I see especially around the bay area well you got to make a ton of money to live. I also think a police officer should make more than a software engineer. The software engineer doesn't have to dodge bullets and risk life or injury daily. If you want to get technical about it a police officer has to have more training than a software engineer by the time you factor in his CJ degree, police academy, and OJT. It's always been a profession in this country that has been under paid. Go look at what cops are paid in Lousiana. They can't afford to buy a new car with the crap wages they make. :mad:
born and raised a republican. Yeah she can't be perfect
Sounds like she is pretty close to perfect. Probably a Rush fan as well. You know Rush has sold more GM vehicles than anyone on the planet. As much as he dislikes Unions he still pushes GM vehicles and not just as an advertiser. He gives them a lot of personal kudos.
It is tough for a conservative to get behind this bailout of the auto industry. Especially when you can see how the UAW has been a big part of their demise. $7Billion per year for 20 years to the legacy costs. Bad management and lousy UAW agreement.
Rocky would be right on the picket line defending this guys job. The reason Unions are losing market share and will continue to lose. Can you make $300k as a cop in Detroit?
Do we know why this cop weighs 300 pounds??? It might not be because he eats donuts all day long gagrice. The guy could have a medical condition of some sort causing him to be over-weight. You are right I'd protest his firing until we got the facts!!! FYI one can buy a house in Detroit for the price of a McDouble hamburger. A house in San Francisco, will run you a cool Mill. :surprise:
small modest home will run you more than a million bucks in San Fran
Vallejo is not SF. It is a working class suburb. Used to be mostly Navy. Until they ran them out. San Diego got some of the Ships they did not want. Homes in So CA have gone down to an average close to $250k, from a high of $624k average.
The bottom line is the city of Vallejo is out of money. They cannot continue to pay the high salaries and benefits. What is so hard to understand. It is the same at GM they cannot continue to pay a lug nut assembler the same wages that an engineer would get. This is not Rocket science, it is economics in its base form. You make a product and you try to sell a product. If someone else sells an equivalent product for less you go out of business or adjust. With the UAW contracts in place going out of business seems the only alternative without Uncle Sam to keep propping the losers up.
Just FYI there are a lot of houses in Vallejo for under $100k. Should be easy to afford making $150k per year.
I agree with you to an extent on NAFTA and Immigration. I think currency manipulation is a red herring. It has been done by many countries including the USA for centuries.
The banking industry has been riddled with corruption from the days of Alexander Hamilton. Going off the gold standard and the Federal Reserve the two biggest mistakes IMO.
You should be happy that we broke the NAFTA treaty 3 days ago with Mexico.
Doing wrong by Mexico By Boston Herald editorial staff Saturday, March 21, 2009 Mexico has announced new tariffs, generally 20 percent, on 90 U.S. products as retaliation for failure of the U.S. government to permit more Mexican trucks to deliver in the United States as agreed to in the NAFTA treaty 14 years ago.
According to a NAFTA committee ruling, Mexico is entirely in the right and we’re surprised it has waited this long to act. The shameful disregarding of treaty obligations, first by the Clinton administration and then by Congress, at the behest of the Teamsters Union is a dreadful example to other countries.
Teamsters have driven the U.S. trucks into which many Mexican trucks have had to transfer cargoes after crossing the border. The Teamsters’ beef has been that Mexican trucks are unsafe. This is, well, just fertilizer. In a joint U.S.-Mexico inspection program, randomly stopped Mexican trucks were in violation of regulations 20.7 percent of the time vs. 21.6 percent for U.S. trucks.
They have 10 days to get their act together if they are to survive. Something has to give. Why would the bondholders offer to cut 50% of what is owed them if the UAW is not willing to do likewise. How are the UAW retirees any more important than the retirees with money invested in GM via their 401K plans? Look at the big picture. How can the Feds give GM money and not offer a gift to Ford? That makes the playing field uneven as you are always pointing out.
The workers are more important because the bond holders elected CEO's like Roger Smith and the like to run GM, into the ground dating back to the 1970's. They did nothing to throw him out of office and because GM, agreed to define benefit plan which the UAW workers deserve (It's a lot less payout than what you get) and no 401K plan was offered back then well that is house I justify my position on this issue. The Big 3 could of purchased the presidency and they didn't. They could of rigged the system but they didn't. Now millions of jobs are on the line and throwing money at the problem without addressing the issues (more than just union) will only solve the real problems like Currency, Trade, Jobs, Tax base, etc, etc....
Where are you getting that 56% number??? Last I checked it was 49% Toyota and 51% Honda???
The Japanese, are in bad shape because they copied our model of exporting jobs to foreign lands and lost there tax base. I can't understand how you can't see that jobs and economy go hand and hand??? :confuse:
Rocky? So you haven't driven the 2010 Buick Lacrosse but you think the last model was great? The Lacrosse is the second to last rated sedan by Consumer Reports. The thing is built in Canada and they only sold 30,000 last year. It barely scores above average in reliability. Also I don't think you understand free trade. Have you taken an economics class? Simply we buy things other countries can do better and cheaper and those countries buy things we can do better and cheaper. Example: Chinese sell us underwear and LeSucks while we sell the Chinese Apples and Printers. The CTS (crap-tacular sedan) is the least reliable upscale car period and GM makes about half its cars in the US. Employee breakdown is as follows: Group # of Employees as of Sep. 2008[7] GMAP - Asia-Pacific 35,000 GME - Europe 56,000 GM LAAM - Latin America, Africa and the Middle East 36,000 GMNA - North America 123,000 GMAC Finance and insurance services SPO Service, Parts and Operations Other Operations 2,000 Total # of employees 252,000
Maybe GM should go bankrupt, leave Detroit-Michigan in general and give the jobs to people who will appreciate them and make quality cars. I'm sure a family in New Mexico, Alabama, or South Carolina would be honored to make the best Cadillac possible. Defend GM all you want, but Ford was able to renegotiate with bondholders and unions and I don't see the walls falling down over there. :lemon:
Before he retired about 5 years ago, my Dad was telling me it seemed he had more money when he was making about $47 a week in the 1950s versus what he was making before he retired. My Dad never had a credit card until the 1980s. It seemed we never lacked for food, clothes, furniture, heat, etc. despite my Dad's seemingly modest income. He was able to buy and pay off a new Ford every three years or so. We always seemed to go on nice vacations and had great Christmases and nice new outfits for Easter. What happened?
I won't be happy until 100% of the vehicles Toyota sells in the United States are made here, and by made I mean 100% of the sheet steel comes form U.S. rolling mills, 100% of the engine blocks are cast in U.S. foundries, 100% of the textiles are sourced from U.S. textile mills, 100% of the plate glass in made here, 100% of the plastic parts are molded here, 100% of the other components are from U.S. suppliers, 100% of the rubber and tires are from U.S. manufacturers, and Toyota is 100% union!
Now if you think I'm picking on Toyota, the same goes for the Big Three and all other foreign transplants! I think it's a national disgrace that the Big Three are manufacturing cars in other countries and importing them here. I have no problem with trucks being manufactured in Mexico if those trucks are for the Mexican market. However, if you're going to sell it here MAKE IT HERE!!!!
We (as a society) became addicted to materialism and the constant buying of trinkets made by glorified slave labor in newly "opened" manufacturing regions. It's almost like a conspiracy. Debt and avarice are great conquerors.
a. Attracts more females b. Handles better c. More reliable d. Better looking e. Better resale value f. Which would you rather win in a contest g. Safer
The workers are more important because the bond holders elected CEO's like Roger Smith and the like to run GM, into the ground dating back to the 1970's.
NO, Bondholders only loan money. They have NO say in how the company is run. It is purely an investment. Many people buy bonds in their 401K plans. They are just as important as any UAW retiree. If you think otherwise you have a poor sense of right and wrong.
How did the UAW worker become more important than the guy at the grocery store that bought bonds in his 401K that were supposedly safe because it was GM?
This year so far Toyota sales are up to 59.3% NA made. All last year was 56.4%. I just wonder what percentage of GM vehicles were made here in the USA. Not Canada or Mexico which is also Made in America labeled.
The bondholder's shouldn't take a "haircut". That way when GM goes bankrupt they go to ZERO and have to wait in line to get their money back. A bond is an investment, you should have researched the company before loaning them money. GM's balance sheet has been backwards for years, risk of default has been evident for years. :confuse: The worker is more due as they are direct stakeholders in the company and contribute to its success.
Now lets implement a 200% Tariff on all goods imported from Mexico
We get more oil from Mexico than we do Saudi Arabia. It would make your Escalade and Suburbans cost about $150k or more. Plus all the Chevy 3/4ton PU trucks probably come from Mexico. We did agree then went back on our agreement. Is the Mexico's fault. And when they lay off all those SKILLED auto workers in Mexico they will head up to Michigan to fill those jobs with the UAW at $8 per hour. More in line with what the jobs are worth. :shades:
It will have to be decided by the bankruptcy court. Delphi has been trying to get their mess straightened out 4 years in bankruptcy. GM should take about 20 years to sort out. Many of the retirees will be dead and buried before the court decides.
You know shipping Mexicans to Detroit may have a positive impact. If they agree to be non-union GM and Ford can be more cost competitive. It also creates housing demand, new tax payers, and more spending.
I agree that lending money to GM was a big gamble over the last 20 years of low to no profits. You could tell they were breathing their last when they sold 51% of GMAC, the ONLY thing making money in the US market. That sure bit em in the butt.
I believe in the bankruptcy wages would be first ahead of all other payouts. I don't think the open ended health care deal with retirees would carry as much weight as the loans. Even the Billions we gave them in December will be first collected in liquidation. The problem with the UAW legacy agreement is the fact that it is open ended. It is not a set figure. It has averaged $7Billion per year over the last 20 years.
When GM liquidates it will be a one time award and then Gone.
Comments
What's wrong.......with frivolous????
Rocky, why aren't you all over that yet???
Then, we can be jealous of you
My father did that w/ his '88 back in '91, and returned 34 mpg (doing 50....F&%^i*& old fart!!!) My Ultra will get between 30 and 33 doing 55-70, and my uncle used to get 29 all day long going back and forth to Florida from RI doing 75-80.
Don't doubt it, come see it!!!
http://www.sfgate.com/webdb/vallejo/?appSession=43477408214179
BTW a seasoned software engineer makes between $120-$150k in SF as a reference and Vallejo is out in the boondocks of the Bay Area. Unions in the public sector are going to bankrupt CA soon since they pretty much have paid off all the politicians.
That could be. What is the engine running at at 45 in OD. Mine runs at about 1200 rpm.
Interesting propsition, that would be. Giving up the greenback would be, IMO, the ULTIMATE form of a peacetime surrender. Which begs the question; are we ceding (financial) power to other countries by virtue of our embracing of a "global economy"? Bob uses the example of the imported, $12 shirts at Walmart vs a mythical $40, union made domestic shirt. But aren't we in some ways lowering our standard of living by allowing such a huge trade deficit?
If, for arguments sake we "closed" out society and made and bought only our products (I know, OVERLY simplistic) would we not have a standard of living that would allow us to buy 10 $40 shirts??
I know that scenario is not realistic, not in this day and age, but since we give countries like Germany, Britain, Russia, and China equal political "respect" via the UN (as we should), all of a sudden they think they are our equals. Well, they are NOT!! They do not equal us in Financial, political, or military might. We may not be THEIR leader specifically,but we are THE WORLD leaders, and we should be given the respect we deserve for that.
I was talking about styling. Interior materials. Of course it may definitely be better in the Lacrosse, but I will decide when I touch it myself.
If, for arguments sake we "closed" out society and made and bought only our products (I know, OVERLY simplistic) would we not have a standard of living that would allow us to buy 10 $40 shirts??"
But let's follow your overly simplistic example (BTW, everything has to be overly simplistic here, as we cannot develop 100 page theses to "prove" our points)...
I believe you are saying that we could shut our doors to imports, and those mythical $40 shirts would be the only shirts we could buy, so we would support our own industry...if I am correct (a big if, I realize), my opinion is that we would only buy a few shirts each, not enough to support the numbers of workers needed to maintain the mass production lines to make the shirts...
I am not think of the rich doctor who spends $100 each on custom shirts...I am thinking of the average person, making $10-25/hour (broad range, I know), who needs to buy, say, 6-10 shirts, enough to go over a week without running out...would that person spend $40 on 10 shirts ($400.00), or would he (or she) only buy 2-3 shirts because $400 is too much of the family budget on shirts...now, the same shirt from WalMart at $12, ten shirts is now $120.00...
Keeping out the imported shirts will, by definition, mean that only American made shirts are purchased, but, IMO, in vastly lower numbers because the shirts are too expensive...so, yes, we would have a domestic shirt industry, but would it be a niche industry due to excessive cost or mass production supporting thousands of workers???...I simply do not think that 1000s of workers would have jobs as the production volume, IMO, simply will not be there...it would only be a niche industry, nothing this nation would depend on...
Despite my opinions, and my off-the-cuff economic thoughts, I realize I could be dead wrong...
WalMart does not sell $$$Billions of products because someone holds a gun to the heads of buyers...they sell it because people can afford it, and it is NOT a budget buster for the average (or not so average) American family...they buy stuff because it is cheaper...
Remember, too, that by saving money at walmart, the family may have money left over to take the family to a restaurant for dinner, thereby supporting the restaurant and the cook and server...if that money was spent on $40 shirts that left the family with no extra money, the restaurant closes because no one has the money to eat out...
So, if we import from China, the shirt worker loses but the restaurant thrives...if we close out imports, the shirt worker wins, but the restaurant loses...the difference is that by allowing imports, the American buyer has CHOICE where to spend his available income...by closing out imports, YOU have dictated where he must spend his money, because shirts take too much of his available income to buy...my way he has freedome to choose...your way he does not...
There may be a net change of zero, because if the restaurant people all have jobs due to the buyer's available income, then don't those jobs fill the gap of the lost shirtworker jobs???...the difference being that the shirtworkers may stand as a group of thousands, but each neighborhood restaurant is independent, but the jobs created in one industry make up for the jobs lost in another industry, except that one group of workers (shirts) make more noise for the TV cameras, whereas the restaurant workers and small groups of 5-15 but they may add up to the number of shirtworker jobs, but they simply do not make enough noise for the TV cameras...is this creative destruction???...we lose it on one VISIBLE side, but gain it back on the INVISIBLE side, as the small groups of restaurant workers are virtually invisible, but yet they are present in all those restaurants...
Do I make sense???
Interesting comment - I see strong used car sales made the news today (Dude, where did all the dealerships go?).
I guess this round of auto talks could be Gettelfinger's swan song.
UAW looks toward Gettelfinger successor (Detroit News)
As far as the porker cop. I hope he is not the one I get when I call 911.
Bellevue Police Lt. Mark Elbert has said Parent, whose 2005-issued Nebraska driver’s license listed him at 5-foot-9 and 300 pounds, was fired under a policy that requires officers to be physically fit.
Porker Cop may be reinstated
Rocky would be right on the picket line defending this guys job. The reason Unions are losing market share and will continue to lose. Can you make $300k as a cop in Detroit?
Meter maids in Anchorage made $85k 20 years ago. So it is all relative.
Of course you do. I might add when we do get back our seamstress that will want to buy a car from slick Rocky, she will need to make the same $25 per hour the auto workers are getting. Of course they will go on strike because there is no way a seamstress is worth the same as a hard working UAW hand. So they need to go up to $50 per hour to keep the same class difference they currently enjoy over most of the workforce in the USA. There is no way a "SKILLED" lug nut assembler will work for the same pay as a Walmart greeter that just signed on to a lucrative Union contract. So we will have massive inflation somewhat like the late 1970s when we were in a similar recession.
From that standpoint, absolutely. My thinking was from a Standard of Living view.
Let's say that in today's society, the average worker can buy 6 shirts at $12 apiece, and still afford to go out to eat. Under MY scenario, they would STILL be able to buy the 6 shirts they need at $40, AND go out to eat, because their standard of living is still equal under your scenario. THEIR paycheck would theoretically be larger because of all those garment workers here earning good money are spending money buying the products that the shirtbuyer makes, AND eating out at those same restaurants that the shirtbuyer does.
40 years ago, suppose we took a job in a factory at 10% above min wage, or $1.75/hr. A 40 hr week would give us a $300/month salary. If our wives worked part time for min., say 25 hrs a week, that's another $170 a month. How much would a $12,000 mortgage be??? $65/month??? What was a steak dinner?? $1.75? $2? Car payment $40? Groceries, $20? Taxes on the house? $30? Uncle Sam got what, $170 out of that $470/mo gross pay? Think of that. Minimum wage. One full time, one part time. A house. A car.
Today, could ANYBODY afford a house or a car on those comparable wages? 2 minimum wage (or just above) jobs at the above 65 combined hrs. would net you around $3,000 a month. What's the house now? $200,000? That's $1100. Taxes? $300. Groceries? $350 Car payment? $400
We rely on credit far more now than we did back then because our salary structure has constant DOWNWARD pressure on it from these emerging countries, therefore we struggle to maintain our Standard of Living.
By the way we did not buy a house as we thought it was too much money to spend. we kept renting at $60 per month till I left for Alaska.
-Rocky
-Rocky
They have 10 days to get their act together if they are to survive. Something has to give. Why would the bondholders offer to cut 50% of what is owed them if the UAW is not willing to do likewise. How are the UAW retirees any more important than the retirees with money invested in GM via their 401K plans? Look at the big picture. How can the Feds give GM money and not offer a gift to Ford? That makes the playing field uneven as you are always pointing out.
Ford Motor Co., the second-largest U.S. automaker, hasn’t requested assistance. GM, the biggest, received $13.4 billion in aid so far and has requested as much as $16.6 billion more. Chrysler got $4 billion and wants $5 billion more. To keep the aid, the automakers must reach cost-cutting agreements.
GM’s Talks
Rick Wagoner, GM’s chief executive officer, said in an interview March 19 that the automaker hasn’t completed talks with the United Auto Workers and bondholders about cutting debt by $28.5 billion. The failure of those talks could drag Detroit- based GM into bankruptcy and possible liquidation, Wagoner said.
Rattner said he may set a deadline for parties including the UAW and GM bondholders to reach a deal.
“Part of why there’s a lack of appearance of movement is nobody wants to go first,” he said. “You say here’s the deadline, everybody has to get there by this date or we’re going to do something else.”
She likes cars but not as much as I do. Her dream car would be a CTS AWD w/ a manual gearbox which they don't make. She is currently leasing a Red Jewel 08' 2LT Chevy Malibu.
-Rocky
Right now Toyota is not making anything on the boatloads of Toyotas sitting on cargo ships. Keep in mind that 56% of the vehicles sold by Toyota in the USA are Made in the USA. Not Canada or Mexico as are GM vehicles with that logo. I don't see how the Feds can keep bailing out GM & C without offering the same to all US auto plants. It is just unfair and probably unconstitutional. I say let the chips fall where they may. We will get out of this mess a lot quicker if the Feds just butt out.
You might want to look at the Japanese economy. They are in worse shape than we are. They have done what this Congress are doing now in the 1990s and have yet to come out of the mess they made. The Japanese Unions have already done their handy work in that society and brought them to their knees.
I want a CTS-V like tested on Motorweek vs a BMW M5. The CTS has automatic and M5 has manual. It still beat the M5 and came in $25,000 less. (The price is from memory, they said you could buy an M1, whatever that is, with the difference in price!). Considering I rarely pay attention to Motorweek "guys" because of their bias and their "oddity," I just happened to watch as I had my first cup of coffee.
They even found fault with their Honda Fit long term test car. Tinny doors and weak motor. The weak motor comment they hid in subordinate clauses and phrases rather than coming out and saying motor is weak.
So is Gettelfinger going to accept lower wages for the oldies but goodies so the company can continue to have them at the trough, or will Gettelfinger force GM into bankruptcy so the weaker Ford survives?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
-Rocky
Sounds like she is pretty close to perfect. Probably a Rush fan as well. You know Rush has sold more GM vehicles than anyone on the planet. As much as he dislikes Unions he still pushes GM vehicles and not just as an advertiser. He gives them a lot of personal kudos.
It is tough for a conservative to get behind this bailout of the auto industry. Especially when you can see how the UAW has been a big part of their demise. $7Billion per year for 20 years to the legacy costs. Bad management and lousy UAW agreement.
Do we know why this cop weighs 300 pounds??? It might not be because he eats donuts all day long gagrice. The guy could have a medical condition of some sort causing him to be over-weight. You are right I'd protest his firing until we got the facts!!! FYI one can buy a house in Detroit for the price of a McDouble hamburger. A house in San Francisco, will run you a cool Mill. :surprise:
-Rocky
-Rocky
Vallejo is not SF. It is a working class suburb. Used to be mostly Navy. Until they ran them out. San Diego got some of the Ships they did not want. Homes in So CA have gone down to an average close to $250k, from a high of $624k average.
The bottom line is the city of Vallejo is out of money. They cannot continue to pay the high salaries and benefits. What is so hard to understand. It is the same at GM they cannot continue to pay a lug nut assembler the same wages that an engineer would get. This is not Rocket science, it is economics in its base form. You make a product and you try to sell a product. If someone else sells an equivalent product for less you go out of business or adjust. With the UAW contracts in place going out of business seems the only alternative without Uncle Sam to keep propping the losers up.
Just FYI there are a lot of houses in Vallejo for under $100k. Should be easy to afford making $150k per year.
http://www.zillow.com/homes/map/vallejo,-ca_rb/#/homes/for_sale/map/vallejo,-ca_- rb/38.103055,-122.240087,38.095,-122.255987_rect/15_zm/
The banking industry has been riddled with corruption from the days of Alexander Hamilton. Going off the gold standard and the Federal Reserve the two biggest mistakes IMO.
You should be happy that we broke the NAFTA treaty 3 days ago with Mexico.
Doing wrong by Mexico
By Boston Herald editorial staff
Saturday, March 21, 2009
Mexico has announced new tariffs, generally 20 percent, on 90 U.S. products as retaliation for failure of the U.S. government to permit more Mexican trucks to deliver in the United States as agreed to in the NAFTA treaty 14 years ago.
According to a NAFTA committee ruling, Mexico is entirely in the right and we’re surprised it has waited this long to act. The shameful disregarding of treaty obligations, first by the Clinton administration and then by Congress, at the behest of the Teamsters Union is a dreadful example to other countries.
Teamsters have driven the U.S. trucks into which many Mexican trucks have had to transfer cargoes after crossing the border. The Teamsters’ beef has been that Mexican trucks are unsafe. This is, well, just fertilizer. In a joint U.S.-Mexico inspection program, randomly stopped Mexican trucks were in violation of regulations 20.7 percent of the time vs. 21.6 percent for U.S. trucks.
We will see how this all shakes out.
With Gettelfinger, on his way out it will be very interesting who steps up to the plate!!!
-Rocky
The workers are more important because the bond holders elected CEO's like Roger Smith and the like to run GM, into the ground dating back to the 1970's. They did nothing to throw him out of office and because GM, agreed to define benefit plan which the UAW workers deserve (It's a lot less payout than what you get) and no 401K plan was offered back then well that is house I justify my position on this issue. The Big 3 could of purchased the presidency and they didn't. They could of rigged the system but they didn't. Now millions of jobs are on the line and throwing money at the problem without addressing the issues (more than just union) will only solve the real problems like Currency, Trade, Jobs, Tax base, etc, etc....
-Rocky
The Japanese, are in bad shape because they copied our model of exporting jobs to foreign lands and lost there tax base. I can't understand how you can't see that jobs and economy go hand and hand??? :confuse:
-Rocky
If the oldies take a cut it will kill my sales!!! :sick:
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
Also I don't think you understand free trade. Have you taken an economics class? Simply we buy things other countries can do better and cheaper and those countries buy things we can do better and cheaper. Example: Chinese sell us underwear and LeSucks while we sell the Chinese Apples and Printers.
The CTS (crap-tacular sedan) is the least reliable upscale car period and GM makes about half its cars in the US. Employee breakdown is as follows:
Group # of Employees as of Sep. 2008[7]
GMAP - Asia-Pacific 35,000
GME - Europe 56,000
GM LAAM - Latin America, Africa and the Middle East 36,000
GMNA - North America 123,000
GMAC Finance and insurance services
SPO Service, Parts and Operations
Other Operations 2,000
Total # of employees 252,000
Maybe GM should go bankrupt, leave Detroit-Michigan in general and give the jobs to people who will appreciate them and make quality cars. I'm sure a family in New Mexico, Alabama, or South Carolina would be honored to make the best Cadillac possible.
Defend GM all you want, but Ford was able to renegotiate with bondholders and unions and I don't see the walls falling down over there. :lemon:
Now if you think I'm picking on Toyota, the same goes for the Big Three and all other foreign transplants! I think it's a national disgrace that the Big Three are manufacturing cars in other countries and importing them here. I have no problem with trucks being manufactured in Mexico if those trucks are for the Mexican market. However, if you're going to sell it here MAKE IT HERE!!!!
a. Attracts more females
b. Handles better
c. More reliable
d. Better looking
e. Better resale value
f. Which would you rather win in a contest
g. Safer
:shades:
NO, Bondholders only loan money. They have NO say in how the company is run. It is purely an investment. Many people buy bonds in their 401K plans. They are just as important as any UAW retiree. If you think otherwise you have a poor sense of right and wrong.
How did the UAW worker become more important than the guy at the grocery store that bought bonds in his 401K that were supposedly safe because it was GM?
This year so far Toyota sales are up to 59.3% NA made. All last year was 56.4%. I just wonder what percentage of GM vehicles were made here in the USA. Not Canada or Mexico which is also Made in America labeled.
Toyota sales February 2009
A bond is an investment, you should have researched the company before loaning them money. GM's balance sheet has been backwards for years, risk of default has been evident for years. :confuse: The worker is more due as they are direct stakeholders in the company and contribute to its success.
We get more oil from Mexico than we do Saudi Arabia. It would make your Escalade and Suburbans cost about $150k or more. Plus all the Chevy 3/4ton PU trucks probably come from Mexico. We did agree then went back on our agreement. Is the Mexico's fault. And when they lay off all those SKILLED auto workers in Mexico they will head up to Michigan to fill those jobs with the UAW at $8 per hour. More in line with what the jobs are worth. :shades:
I agree that lending money to GM was a big gamble over the last 20 years of low to no profits. You could tell they were breathing their last when they sold 51% of GMAC, the ONLY thing making money in the US market. That sure bit em in the butt.
I believe in the bankruptcy wages would be first ahead of all other payouts. I don't think the open ended health care deal with retirees would carry as much weight as the loans. Even the Billions we gave them in December will be first collected in liquidation. The problem with the UAW legacy agreement is the fact that it is open ended. It is not a set figure. It has averaged $7Billion per year over the last 20 years.
When GM liquidates it will be a one time award and then Gone.