Here is the problem as I see it. GM cannot survive as a smaller leaner company. They are not going to sell as many vehicles as they did in the past. They will never get back the market share they have lost. Even if GM and the UAW survive VW will pass them within a couple more years Worldwide. VW had a net profit last year of $6Billion. They can afford to put decent content into their cars. GM will have to add the legacy costs to each vehicle they sell. At the current sales level it is $4600 PER VEHICLE. They cannot compete with that. They have to get rid of the legacy costs to even think about breaking even. The UAW is going to have to bite the bullet and tell the retirees. Sorry folks we are big fat liars and should have never promised this kind of gold plated health care plan. As of tomorrow you have to buy your own viagra.
VW - interesting example. Until Porsche took over ~40% of VW last year, the German state of Lower Saxony had control of that company with a 20% ownership share.
I have deposits on two GM Certified pre-owned G6's and a customer coming in on a test drive tomorrow on a Impala. I have a couple of other irons in the fire with trucks. If I would of had the right products in my inventory GM, might have to open up closed plants!!!! :P
My biggest fault in car sales is my honesty. I can't look people in the eyes and lie to them just so I can sell them a car. I've lost many sales doing it this way but I can look myself in the mirror each day and I personally believe my honest reputation if I stay in car sales will someday pay off because of the referral base I will have cemented. I love getting the UAW-GM/Delphi customer because I can build so much rapport and trust with them and in many cases they know a relative of mine!!!
I also hate selling foreign cars and thankfully our management doesn't keep many in our inventory. My owners son who sells cars and is around my age has gotten pretty close to me and wants me to go with him to Detroit, to learn the 2010 Equinox and the new Camaro. I work at one of the best dealerships in U.S. IMHO. I am hoping my owner whom is a great guy will eventually get us Buick, Cadillac, GMC, brands. I will honestly feel like the king of the world if we ever acquire those three other brands!!!! :shades: I count on edmunds.com and all of you to compliment my factory training and as much as I know about these Chevy's well guys I've discovered that even I have some product knowledge loopholes regarding the details like working the Navigation system. I could jump in a Acura TL, and work that unit like baby's toy but GM's unit is a lot different. I finally got to play with the ventilated seats in a LTZ Suburban, and boy are those baby's a dream come true!!!
I'm leaning torwards getting a Lucerne as my demo because it fits the image I like to portray. Who knows I might be able to get a STS AWD which would be sweet also and it has the Bose 5.1 Studio Surround Sound and the other gadgets I want. I could also handle being a Saab snob!!! :P Most of my coworkers are driving 09' LaCrosse's we purchased for our inventory but I'd be happier than a liberatarian reading Mises, with a Lucerne as a demo. I tell my boss I should have a ZR-1 and when I say that I don't know why he laughs at me???? :P :P :P :P :P
Here is the problem as I see it. GM cannot survive as a smaller leaner company. They are not going to sell as many vehicles as they did in the past. They will never get back the market share they have lost.
To add to this - GM almost HAS to have a bankruptcy to survive. Their legacy costs are huge. They are way oversized for their declining market share. If they downsize as any normal company would, then their legacy costs force them into even less competitiveness. They are already unable to profit from the current prices of their vehicles. Bailout loans are not going to change this story. The only answer is to shed all of the high overhead costs and become a company that can profit from selling the number of their vehicles that the world (especially the US) wants to buy. How else can they cut their huge structural cost disadvantage?
BK seems to be the only way this is going to happen unless the unions give way more than they are likely to do. It is just a matter of time. Hopefully without more of our tax dollars going down a rathole.
For the GM supporters out there - with no GM bashing here -- what is the *realistic* answer short of BK that would save GM? Do you really think GM is going to drastically increase their sales and market share? Because that would seem to be the only alternative to BK and it is not likely to happen.
Rocky! Sounds like you are having a good time selling cars! Go sell a ton of them and help GM survive! We also appreciate that you are an honest salesman; that is rare these days.
So I come into your dealership for a small car and say I'm considering the Mazda 3, the Honda Civic, and I wanted to look at the Cobalt as well. What are you going to tell me? :P
> I can't look people in the eyes and lie to them just so I can sell them a car
You've got to learn to answer indirectly. It's like telling a lady friend that "NO, that outfit doesn't make you look heavier than you should be." "Yes this car is a good UAW product and like foreign cars may have a problem pop up here and there, but it will give you lots of good service."
imidazol97: I watch the continual downgrading and demeaning of GM and US products in general over the last few year while the foreign products have problems surface with their vehicles and those problems are accepted and the product changed after a few years (maybe not in terms of Honda transmissions) and everyone just loves them. There's a scapegoating going on. There's a bashing.
The reason everyone brings up the Honda transmission problems and the Toyota engine sludge problems repeatedly is because they were the only two really widespread problems experienced by these car makers. Compare that the the myriad problems experienced by GM and Ford...
And the problems weren't "accepted" by Honda owners...they sued, and Honda issued an extended warranty. So much for the theory that Honda owners are passive sheep waiting to be fleeced by their favorite car company.
Honda did something else - it actually fixed the problem. The problematic transmissions were installed in V-6 equipped models built from 1999 to 2003...Honda then redesigned key components and largely eliminated the transmission problems.
Compare this to how long the problems with GM's intake manifold gaskets have been occurring, or how long it took GM to correct problems with the Northstar V-8 (11 years, by one account). Or even the clunking intermediate steering shafts on various GM products (which first surfaced with the 1998 Olds Intrigue, and went on for almost a decade). Or the infamous flimsy head gaskets on the 3.8 V-6, along with the fragile transmissions Ford installed in Windstars, Tauruses and Sables.
All companies have problems. No one is saying GM cars need to be perfect every time. But the number of problems, along with how fast they are corrected, also count heavily, and on that score, the domestics have earned their bad reputation. And repeatedly bringing up Honda transmission problems or the Toyota sludge debacle won't change that fact.
GM? Need a new company, pure and simple. The old one failed. They can keep fooling themselves by always trying to fool everyone else but until there is new leadership, business plan, strategic directions and a roll out plan with new products, it will just be another AIG.
What content will the Cruze be with the engine coming from Austria? And will it ever be built? A year in this economy is a long time. The Cruze is a 2011 model. GM still has UAW models to sell from 2008 model year. Better get to selling. Tell them what a great deal you can give them on a 2008 Aveo direct from Korea. Union made!!! :shades:
The program would only apply to new vehicles built in North America, with cars having to hit at least 27 miles per gallon on the highway if built in the United States and 30 m.p.g. if built in Canada or Mexico. Truck models would have to make 24 m.p.g. on the highway.
Think about Mexico getting the most of those sales. Fusion and Jetta
Only one manual transmission GM PU truck can claim 24 MPG. The Colorado 4 banger. Big seller right? Toyota has Tacoma built here that would qualify with an auto transmission.
So how much do you think that clunker program would help GM?
Are you sure the engine is coming from Austria??? It will be built because us dealers have received information on them already. Gagrice, I don't know of too many 2008 models left at dealerships. I almost refuse to sell an Aveo!!!
Production of the new engines is scheduled to start in December 2010. When Cruze production begins next spring, the initial supplies of engines will come from a plant in Aspern, Austria until the domestic production is ready.
They canceled the new Flint plant. Will refurb the old one as of last news. A lot can happen in two years time.
Hey Rocky. Out of curiousity what product do you wish you had in your inventory? It's great that you sold a couple of certified G6s. I think the poor resale value of the G6 hurts the new G6 sales and at the same time makes a used G6 a great buy as a used car.
I wished I had the new Camaro, obviously. I also wished I had the new Volt, Cruze, and 2010' Equinox. Once we get all of them I think we will start really kicking butt!!!
Our dealership is doing its own "assurance" program. It's a little like Hyundai's but instead of us taking back the car well we give you money to make your car payment while you seek work.
I also wished as I said earlier the Buick, GMC, Cadillac, line-up for flexibility. Perhaps some day in the not too distant future we will be able to accomplish that goal.
Rocky
P.S. The G6's resale value has actually jumped over the last couple of months about $1500-$2000. You will pay a premium for a GTP or GXP at the auctions if it's a clean unit. I also wished I had a dozen 99-2005 Pontiac Grand-AM's because they make great payment cars especially for teenagers and adults. I could sell em' like hot cakes. The Bonneville, is a tough find also and we sell em' as fast as we get em'. Just a little FYI, about our market!!!
Only one manual transmission GM PU truck can claim 24 MPG. The Colorado 4 banger. Big seller right? Toyota has Tacoma built here that would qualify with an auto transmission.
You forgot about the 2-Mode Silverado, which will easily get 24 mpg!!! FYI- The Tacoma, isn't the truck that you make it out to be. I haven't seen a new one in ages!!! The bed on those puppies are a joke.
So how much do you think that clunker program would help GM?
Will it have a impact??? You bet!!! The big rebates for hybrid vehicles like the Volt, would help also. Hey FYI, I agree with you pal, on the diesel perspective. I as I told you a week ago I'm upset that these diesel programs are being delayed or canceled and whom ever decided to cancel should have a noose and a trap door!!! I would of sold the heck out of those half-ton Duramax pick-ups!!! Diesel is like $0.20 cheaper than gas right now and people would pull the trigger for one!!! If I wanted a half-ton pick-up with good gas mileage and excellent towing well the Silverado/Sierra Duramax would of been killer. I would love to own a Duramax Sierra Denali, and put all the Banks, Edge, Juice, aftermarket stuff on it and run 12 second quarter-mile times while getting near 30 mpg on the highway!!! Why Wouldn't Cha????
>So you are suggesting I put on my politician hat and pretend I'm on your side while reaching around with dagger in the back???
No. I am sure nobody wants you to do that. But then how do you sell a GM car? Don't ask, don't tell policy? The customers don't ask for the bugs in the car, and you do not tell them about them? Is that so? Or do you start by pointing out the known bugs in the model and how GM is going to fix them in the future?
Of course, you have to lie to make sales. You have to say that this GM Cobalt is better than a Honda Civic. How do you define better is up to you.
I wished I had the new Camaro, obviously. I also wished I had the new Volt, Cruze, and 2010' Equinox. Once we get all of them I think we will start really kicking butt!!!
Don't you know that the outstanding models are always going to be REAL SOON NOW? It's been that way for 30 years!
These cars were once going to be the next HOME RUNS: - G6 - Cobalt - HHR - Solstice - Aura - Vue
Those didn't set the world on fire.
Upcoming supposed HOME RUNS (!):
- Cruze - Camaro - Equinox - LaCrosse - Volt (the mother of all home runs)
You forgot about the 2-Mode Silverado, which will easily get 24 mpg!!
Not according to the EPA website. They only get 22 MPG highway. The Volt will not do you or GM any good for at least two years. Then I would not count on it getting the mileage numbers GM hopes for. In the mean time the UAW is going to have to come up to the plate and keep GM from going out of business.
Yep - I'm old enough to remember other supposed homeruns from the past 20 years. I had a new '94 Corsica, a '98 Camaro V-6, an '00 Silverado, and an '01 Firebird Formula. All were fairly reliable, though I didn't keep the cars past warranty.
But yes I agree these vehicles were decent compared to the Chrysler and Ford competition of the time, but they weren't homeruns in terms of helping GM gain marketshare or make money.
With the exception of the Silverado these models were initially appealing, but quickly lost marketshare.
I remember when an auto homerun was considered 500,000 units per year - like the original Mustang, or at least a vehicle that sells for MSRP - like an E-Type Jaguar. I think the Ford Escort and Tauruses were homeruns too in their first few years.
gagrice: "Here is the problem as I see it. GM cannot survive as a smaller leaner company. They are not going to sell as many vehicles as they did in the past. They will never get back the market share they have lost."...maybe I misunderstand you...I put part of your quote in bold print, and that is where I think I missed something you said...
GM CAN survive as a smaller leaner company, in fact that is what I thought was NECESSARY for their survival...in a Ch 11, dump legacy costs, void UAW contracts, jettison half the workers as they no longer need them to make cars that do not sell, and shut down about half their capacity to become leaner...accept their market share between 15-25%, and be profitable while doing it...like I mentioned before, Kmart was the big boy on the block and Walmart had a few stores...now, of course, Kmart is a smaller company and WalMart is the big boy...GM simply must accept that they are no longer volume champion of the world, there is no other way...
rocky: for all of our differences, I am very happy that you are incapable of lying to a prospective customer...I would also rather lose a client than to tell them something that simply isn't true...do I lose money that way???...no, not if integrity is more important than money, and to me, it is...I also must look in the mirror every morning, and what I see does not shrink away from me because the clients who want me to lie are referred down the street...
When you go to bed, all you have is your integrity that you take with you...don't ever compromise that, or you will have NOTHING, regardless of the money you could make by being dishonest...now, if only we could get you to understand that UAW ain't the way to go, but, we're working on that, too...:):):)... :P
There's nothing Toyota makes that would be as smooth as a Buick 8. Or as quiet.
That's almost comical. The only Buick v8 that could be considered quiet and smooth would be the Northstar and it's not anywhere close to the same league as the Toyota/Lexus LS series v8 in terms of power or refinement. That's the quietest/smoothest car I've ever been in. Same with the 4.7 v8 Toyota uses in their truck's/SUVs. Much smoother than any Ford or GM v8 I've owned.
I'm not on the Toyota bandwagon BTW, lots of things I don't like about their vehicles and I've never owned one, but powertrain refinement is one of their strengths.
With their current legacy costs. They need to dump all the high costs to slim down to their current market share. My calculations unless Rocky sells a lot of cars, is $4600 per car in UAW legacy costs. That was my point. I should have been more clear. As their only chance at surviving is smaller and leaner.
The 4.7L V8 and 5 speed transmission in my 2007 Sequoia is head and shoulders above the GM 5.3L with 4 speed in my last GMC PU truck. That and the fact it was made in America by people interested in building quality vehicles, sold me. Plus $10,000 off MSRP as it was end of the best model Sequoia, Toyota ever built. The new Sequoia has NO appeal to me.
One big change, he says, was to cut the job descriptions in the union contract to five from 32. Narrow job descriptions limited company flexibility in using workers where they are needed and can inflate the workforce. The result, says Ross: "We gradually became not only the largest steel company in America, but we also were the lowest-cost integrated mill, and we paid our workers more than any other company. The pragmatic attitude of the Steelworkers union probably saved 100,000 jobs."
I remember when an auto homerun was considered 500,000 units per year - like the original Mustang, or at least a vehicle that sells for MSRP - like an E-Type Jaguar. I think the Ford Escort and Tauruses were homeruns too in their first few years.
I can't remember the last time GM had a car (not truck) that sold more than 500K units in a single model year. The Celebrity sold around 400K units in 1986, but went downhill fast with the Taurus on the scene. I think there was one early year that the Corsica/Beretta, if you combine them, might have broken 500K. Maybe 1988? Maybe it's not fair to combine sales of the two, but I always thought of them as the same car, just a different name for the coupe and sedan.
I think the Cutlass might have broken 500K units in 1981, or at least come close. But that's coupe, sedan, and wagon sales combined.
GM's last home run year, IMO, was 1985. That year, they had 7 of the top ten selling cars (again, this is just cars, not counting trucks). Those were, in no particular order: Cavalier, Celebrity, Caprice, Cutlass Ciera, Cutlass Supreme, Delta 88, Century. Ford had two: the Escort and Tempo. The lone import was the Nissan Sentra.
It was downhill from there, though. For 1986, they were down to six in the top 10. They added the Grand Am, but I forget which two slipped off. Probably the Cutlass Supreme, which was fading in popularity, and the 88, which didn't take well to the second wave of downsizing.
>Plus $10,000 off MSRP as it was end of the best model Sequoia
I remember in 03 or so when mention was made of Honda and Toyota having public rebates a few posters would make a big hoopla was made about how spectacularly wonderful their vehicles were and how they _never_ need to use rebates like _those_ US manufacturers.
. Of course no mention was made of the hidden rebates used often by at least one of the two that spiffed the dealers and may not or may have been passed on to consumers.
"Buick has ranked among the top 10 nameplates each year since the study was last redesigned in 2003, while Jaguar has moved rapidly up the rankings," David Sargent, vice president of automotive research at J.D. Power and Associates, said in a statement."
Now that you're moving the iron, how about posting some stories over in ths "Stories from the Front Lines" forum?
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
" think the Cutlass might have broken 500K units in 1981, or at least come close. But that's coupe, sedan, and wagon sales combined."
andre, if I am not mistaken (don't worry, someone WILL happily correct me if I am wrong), Cutlass ALONE in 1971 or 1972 sold over a million cars...I think it was one of GM's best sellers back then...if not a million, then a very high seller, over 500K, I think...
Well if you notice that there is that little range information just below those big numbers and that is their for that very reason. The Silvy 2-mode has been tested and confirmed to get as high as 26 mpg. highway
That is my plan if I have any say in it!!! I really like the Lucerne Super, lemko!!!
I took the corrections officer test and think I did well on it. I won't know if I'm selected for a interview for about three weeks so I need all of your fingers crossed!!!
Well our latest product launches have gotten great reviews so at least they are now walking the talk!!! I admit some of it was big promises with no delivery but they are getting it right and is why import customers are finally looking at our products!!!
Comments
And German unions aren't pushovers by reputation.
(Thank you Imidazol97
My biggest fault in car sales is my honesty. I can't look people in the eyes and lie to them just so I can sell them a car. I've lost many sales doing it this way but I can look myself in the mirror each day and I personally believe my honest reputation if I stay in car sales will someday pay off because of the referral base I will have cemented.
I also hate selling foreign cars and thankfully our management doesn't keep many in our inventory. My owners son who sells cars and is around my age has gotten pretty close to me and wants me to go with him to Detroit, to learn the 2010 Equinox and the new Camaro. I work at one of the best dealerships in U.S. IMHO. I am hoping my owner whom is a great guy will eventually get us Buick, Cadillac, GMC, brands. I will honestly feel like the king of the world if we ever acquire those three other brands!!!! :shades: I count on edmunds.com and all of you to compliment my factory training and as much as I know about these Chevy's well guys I've discovered that even I have some product knowledge loopholes regarding the details like working the Navigation system. I could jump in a Acura TL, and work that unit like baby's toy but GM's unit is a lot different. I finally got to play with the ventilated seats in a LTZ Suburban, and boy are those baby's a dream come true!!!
I'm leaning torwards getting a Lucerne as my demo because it fits the image I like to portray. Who knows I might be able to get a STS AWD which would be sweet also and it has the Bose 5.1 Studio Surround Sound and the other gadgets I want. I could also handle being a Saab snob!!! :P Most of my coworkers are driving 09' LaCrosse's we purchased for our inventory but I'd be happier than a liberatarian reading Mises, with a Lucerne as a demo. I tell my boss I should have a ZR-1 and when I say that I don't know why he laughs at me???? :P :P :P :P :P
-Rocky
To add to this - GM almost HAS to have a bankruptcy to survive. Their legacy costs are huge. They are way oversized for their declining market share. If they downsize as any normal company would, then their legacy costs force them into even less competitiveness. They are already unable to profit from the current prices of their vehicles. Bailout loans are not going to change this story. The only answer is to shed all of the high overhead costs and become a company that can profit from selling the number of their vehicles that the world (especially the US) wants to buy. How else can they cut their huge structural cost disadvantage?
BK seems to be the only way this is going to happen unless the unions give way more than they are likely to do. It is just a matter of time. Hopefully without more of our tax dollars going down a rathole.
For the GM supporters out there - with no GM bashing here -- what is the *realistic* answer short of BK that would save GM? Do you really think GM is going to drastically increase their sales and market share? Because that would seem to be the only alternative to BK and it is not likely to happen.
So I come into your dealership for a small car and say I'm considering the Mazda 3, the Honda Civic, and I wanted to look at the Cobalt as well. What are you going to tell me? :P
You've got to learn to answer indirectly. It's like telling a lady friend that "NO, that outfit doesn't make you look heavier than you should be." "Yes this car is a good UAW product and like foreign cars may have a problem pop up here and there, but it will give you lots of good service."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
-Rocky
Thanks for the kind comments.
Detroit 3, UAW unite in support of cash for clunkers
http://www.freep.com/article/20090317/BUSINESS01/90317063/1002/rss02
-Rocky
The reason everyone brings up the Honda transmission problems and the Toyota engine sludge problems repeatedly is because they were the only two really widespread problems experienced by these car makers. Compare that the the myriad problems experienced by GM and Ford...
And the problems weren't "accepted" by Honda owners...they sued, and Honda issued an extended warranty. So much for the theory that Honda owners are passive sheep waiting to be fleeced by their favorite car company.
Honda did something else - it actually fixed the problem. The problematic transmissions were installed in V-6 equipped models built from 1999 to 2003...Honda then redesigned key components and largely eliminated the transmission problems.
Compare this to how long the problems with GM's intake manifold gaskets have been occurring, or how long it took GM to correct problems with the Northstar V-8 (11 years, by one account). Or even the clunking intermediate steering shafts on various GM products (which first surfaced with the 1998 Olds Intrigue, and went on for almost a decade). Or the infamous flimsy head gaskets on the 3.8 V-6, along with the fragile transmissions Ford installed in Windstars, Tauruses and Sables.
All companies have problems. No one is saying GM cars need to be perfect every time. But the number of problems, along with how fast they are corrected, also count heavily, and on that score, the domestics have earned their bad reputation. And repeatedly bringing up Honda transmission problems or the Toyota sludge debacle won't change that fact.
Regards,
OW
Think about Mexico getting the most of those sales. Fusion and Jetta
Only one manual transmission GM PU truck can claim 24 MPG. The Colorado 4 banger. Big seller right?
Toyota has Tacoma built here that would qualify with an auto transmission.
So how much do you think that clunker program would help GM?
-Rocky
They canceled the new Flint plant. Will refurb the old one as of last news. A lot can happen in two years time.
Our dealership is doing its own "assurance" program. It's a little like Hyundai's but instead of us taking back the car well we give you money to make your car payment while you seek work.
I also wished as I said earlier the Buick, GMC, Cadillac, line-up for flexibility. Perhaps some day in the not too distant future we will be able to accomplish that goal.
Rocky
P.S. The G6's resale value has actually jumped over the last couple of months about $1500-$2000. You will pay a premium for a GTP or GXP at the auctions if it's a clean unit. I also wished I had a dozen 99-2005 Pontiac Grand-AM's because they make great payment cars especially for teenagers and adults. I could sell em' like hot cakes. The Bonneville, is a tough find also and we sell em' as fast as we get em'. Just a little FYI, about our market!!!
-Rocky
Toyota has Tacoma built here that would qualify with an auto transmission.
You forgot about the 2-Mode Silverado, which will easily get 24 mpg!!!
FYI- The Tacoma, isn't the truck that you make it out to be. I haven't seen a new one in ages!!! The bed on those puppies are a joke.
So how much do you think that clunker program would help GM?
Will it have a impact??? You bet!!! The big rebates for hybrid vehicles like the Volt, would help also. Hey FYI, I agree with you pal, on the diesel perspective. I as I told you a week ago I'm upset that these diesel programs are being delayed or canceled and whom ever decided to cancel should have a noose and a trap door!!! I would of sold the heck out of those half-ton Duramax pick-ups!!! Diesel is like $0.20 cheaper than gas right now and people would pull the trigger for one!!! If I wanted a half-ton pick-up with good gas mileage and excellent towing well the Silverado/Sierra Duramax would of been killer. I would love to own a Duramax Sierra Denali, and put all the Banks, Edge, Juice, aftermarket stuff on it and run 12 second quarter-mile times while getting near 30 mpg on the highway!!! Why Wouldn't Cha????
-Rocky
Will Fords, UAW deal work for Chrysler???
-Rocky
No. I am sure nobody wants you to do that.
But then how do you sell a GM car? Don't ask, don't tell policy?
The customers don't ask for the bugs in the car, and you do not tell them about them? Is that so? Or do you start by pointing out the known bugs in the model and how GM is going to fix them in the future?
Of course, you have to lie to make sales. You have to say that this GM Cobalt is better than a Honda Civic. How do you define better is up to you.
I'm sure there's some out there but I'm running behind. I do know how negotiations are going with the J3:
"Toyota, Nissan and Honda rejected their unions' requests for higher wages and heftier bonuses for workers."
Japan's Big Three Reject Higher Pay For Workers
So I need a car now and you're going to tell me to wait for a 2011 model? Not to consider the Cobalt?!!
I do appreciate your honesty!!
Luckily this was only a hypothetical situation. :P
Don't you know that the outstanding models are always going to be REAL SOON NOW? It's been that way for 30 years!
These cars were once going to be the next HOME RUNS:
- G6
- Cobalt
- HHR
- Solstice
- Aura
- Vue
Those didn't set the world on fire.
Upcoming supposed HOME RUNS (!):
- Cruze
- Camaro
- Equinox
- LaCrosse
- Volt (the mother of all home runs)
Not according to the EPA website. They only get 22 MPG highway. The Volt will not do you or GM any good for at least two years. Then I would not count on it getting the mileage numbers GM hopes for. In the mean time the UAW is going to have to come up to the plate and keep GM from going out of business.
Yep - I'm old enough to remember other supposed homeruns from the past 20 years. I had a new '94 Corsica, a '98 Camaro V-6, an '00 Silverado, and an '01 Firebird Formula. All were fairly reliable, though I didn't keep the cars past warranty.
But yes I agree these vehicles were decent compared to the Chrysler and Ford competition of the time, but they weren't homeruns in terms of helping GM gain marketshare or make money.
With the exception of the Silverado these models were initially appealing, but quickly lost marketshare.
I remember when an auto homerun was considered 500,000 units per year - like the original Mustang, or at least a vehicle that sells for MSRP - like an E-Type Jaguar. I think the Ford Escort and Tauruses were homeruns too in their first few years.
Lexus LS. Smoother. Quieter.
Not that I want one.
GM CAN survive as a smaller leaner company, in fact that is what I thought was NECESSARY for their survival...in a Ch 11, dump legacy costs, void UAW contracts, jettison half the workers as they no longer need them to make cars that do not sell, and shut down about half their capacity to become leaner...accept their market share between 15-25%, and be profitable while doing it...like I mentioned before, Kmart was the big boy on the block and Walmart had a few stores...now, of course, Kmart is a smaller company and WalMart is the big boy...GM simply must accept that they are no longer volume champion of the world, there is no other way...
rocky: for all of our differences, I am very happy that you are incapable of lying to a prospective customer...I would also rather lose a client than to tell them something that simply isn't true...do I lose money that way???...no, not if integrity is more important than money, and to me, it is...I also must look in the mirror every morning, and what I see does not shrink away from me because the clients who want me to lie are referred down the street...
When you go to bed, all you have is your integrity that you take with you...don't ever compromise that, or you will have NOTHING, regardless of the money you could make by being dishonest...now, if only we could get you to understand that UAW ain't the way to go, but, we're working on that, too...:):):)... :P
That's almost comical. The only Buick v8 that could be considered quiet and smooth would be the Northstar and it's not anywhere close to the same league as the Toyota/Lexus LS series v8 in terms of power or refinement. That's the quietest/smoothest car I've ever been in. Same with the 4.7 v8 Toyota uses in their truck's/SUVs. Much smoother than any Ford or GM v8 I've owned.
I'm not on the Toyota bandwagon BTW, lots of things I don't like about their vehicles and I've never owned one, but powertrain refinement is one of their strengths.
With their current legacy costs. They need to dump all the high costs to slim down to their current market share. My calculations unless Rocky sells a lot of cars, is $4600 per car in UAW legacy costs. That was my point. I should have been more clear. As their only chance at surviving is smaller and leaner.
The 4.7L V8 and 5 speed transmission in my 2007 Sequoia is head and shoulders above the GM 5.3L with 4 speed in my last GMC PU truck. That and the fact it was made in America by people interested in building quality vehicles, sold me. Plus $10,000 off MSRP as it was end of the best model Sequoia, Toyota ever built. The new Sequoia has NO appeal to me.
No doubt about that. I was far from impressed with the 5.3/4speed combo that was in my Suburban, typical of Generic Motors
One big change, he says, was to cut the job descriptions in the union contract to five from 32. Narrow job descriptions limited company flexibility in using workers where they are needed and can inflate the workforce. The result, says Ross: "We gradually became not only the largest steel company in America, but we also were the lowest-cost integrated mill, and we paid our workers more than any other company. The pragmatic attitude of the Steelworkers union probably saved 100,000 jobs."
I can't remember the last time GM had a car (not truck) that sold more than 500K units in a single model year. The Celebrity sold around 400K units in 1986, but went downhill fast with the Taurus on the scene. I think there was one early year that the Corsica/Beretta, if you combine them, might have broken 500K. Maybe 1988? Maybe it's not fair to combine sales of the two, but I always thought of them as the same car, just a different name for the coupe and sedan.
I think the Cutlass might have broken 500K units in 1981, or at least come close. But that's coupe, sedan, and wagon sales combined.
GM's last home run year, IMO, was 1985. That year, they had 7 of the top ten selling cars (again, this is just cars, not counting trucks). Those were, in no particular order: Cavalier, Celebrity, Caprice, Cutlass Ciera, Cutlass Supreme, Delta 88, Century. Ford had two: the Escort and Tempo. The lone import was the Nissan Sentra.
It was downhill from there, though. For 1986, they were down to six in the top 10. They added the Grand Am, but I forget which two slipped off. Probably the Cutlass Supreme, which was fading in popularity, and the 88, which didn't take well to the second wave of downsizing.
I remember in 03 or so when mention was made of Honda and Toyota having public rebates a few posters would make a big hoopla was made about how spectacularly wonderful their vehicles were and how they _never_ need to use rebates like _those_ US manufacturers.
. Of course no mention was made of the hidden rebates used often by at least one of the two that spiffed the dealers and may not or may have been passed on to consumers.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
"Buick has ranked among the top 10 nameplates each year since the study was last redesigned in 2003, while Jaguar has moved rapidly up the rankings," David Sargent, vice president of automotive research at J.D. Power and Associates, said in a statement."
Yeah, they beat out Lexus this year.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Wasn't Oldsmobile grouping Cutlass Supreme and Cutlass Ciera sales together for awhile, under the theory that they were both officially Cutlasses?
Must be the fact that Tata of India bought Jaguar
Are the UAW built?
I think it is good that the UAW has one car they can point to and proud. Too bad they have so many they cannot say that about.
...and last longer, provide superior satisfaction, comfort, on and on and on....isn't that what you aspire to?
Regards,
OW
Straight 8! Now where talkin.
andre, if I am not mistaken (don't worry, someone WILL happily correct me if I am wrong), Cutlass ALONE in 1971 or 1972 sold over a million cars...I think it was one of GM's best sellers back then...if not a million, then a very high seller, over 500K, I think...
-Rocky
I took the corrections officer test and think I did well on it. I won't know if I'm selected for a interview for about three weeks so I need all of your fingers crossed!!!
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky