" I know a bunch of people that have told me that it's been the best quality truck they've ever own and love the ride, gas mileage, power, and fit and finish!!!"
And, since all you know are UAW people, they bought their trucks with subtantial, and well-deserved, discounts...you would be hard pressed to fins any UAW worker that will criticize anything they make, simply because it is all they know...if a piece of junk has no engine, but 4 wheels, and it is all you know, then it is the best you have ever seen...
Your problem rocky, is simple...it also applies to lemko...for any and all the folks you can find that call Big 3 products bulletproof, there are, apparenly, hundreds of thousands of others who don't, simply because of Big 3 market share...
You can make all your arguments to me you want, but the market is proving you wrong by the day... people are buying what they want, and what they want, in increasing numbers, are imports, which, on the whole, they seem to be happy with...respond all you want, it ain't gonna help...
As we say in law, you have the right to your own opinions, but not your own facts...and the facts are that imports have been growing because Americans are fed up with poor UAW quality, and are deserting Big 3 in droves...and, while that may sound unpatriotic, it is even MORE unpatriotic to buy a piece of junk just because your UAW neighbor makes it...they must EARN the business, a concept you may not understand, and union folks think it is theirs by divine right...you had our respect in the 50s and 60s, made trash in the 70s, 80s and 90s, and gave yourself a bad enough reputation that it survives to this day...and, considering how folks here have written about the poor quality of vehicles in 2004, 2005, 2006, it is a wonder that anyone buys Big 3 at all, because they apparently have not learned their lesson enough...a great Malibu, CTS and Lucerne are not enough to carry the day...
Wake up, rocky...you are cheerleading in front of the crowd, but the 4th quarter ended 30 minutes ago, the stands are empty, but you can't tell because your blindfold is still on...the UAW is toast, but the Big 3 can file Ch 11, dump the UAW, and emerge stronger with new workers w/o that welfare entitlement attitude and actually want to work instead of collect a paycheck for doing nothing or making cars whose qualtiy barely qualifies them to be boat anchors for an oceangoing vessel...
>you had our respect in the 50s and 60s, made trash in the 70s, 80s and 90s, and gave yourself a bad enough reputation that it survives to this day...and, considering how folks here have written about the poor quality of vehicles in 2004, 2005, 2006,
But, counselor, are you confusing the assembler with the assembly. The assembler doesn't make parts that end up wearing out early or breaking or looking bad. They put them on wrong.
Isn't this parallel to blaming attorneys for the laws that they use (misuse) to prove people guilty or get them off? Maybe we can start through some cases out of Jorja that have been travesties of justice and misuse of laws to harass people.
It was a 1993 Chevy 3/4 ton 4X4 extended cab. Great truck and no one was hurt when a big buck put it out of commission in Idaho.
I'm guessing that one had the beefier 4-speed automatic? I think it's called the 4L80E? My uncle's '97 Silverado just has the 4L60E, or whatever it's called. It's just a half-ton truck, 4.3 V-6, and he's never towed anything with it, so it's not like he's ever made that truck do any heavy work. Yet it's eaten two transmissions. I think the first was around 70,000 miles, and the second was around 108,000. It has around 116,000 on it now.
I have a friend with an '05 Silverado, with about 100,000 miles on it. I was surprised when he said he's never had any transmission trouble with it. Then I found out why...it's a stick shift!
With the current crop of GM pickups, they do still use that old 4-speed that tends to chew up early, but there is a 6-speed automatic that's optional. I think it's the one named after a chick. Allison? Or maybe it's just a new 6-speed that GM came out with all by themselves, but anyway, it's supposed to be a pretty big improvement.
".....With the current crop of GM pickups, they do still use that old 4-speed that tends to chew up early, but there is a 6-speed automatic that's optional. I think it's the one named after a chick. Allison? Or maybe it's just a new 6-speed that GM came out with all by themselves, but anyway, it's supposed to be a pretty big improvement."
There are 2; the 6 sp auto is a new tranny (6L80e, I believe) for the regular duty trucks, and the 6 sp Allison auto for bigger applications (the big block gas and Duramax it's actually a medium duty truck tranny)
Well said... I agree with you again! The Big 3 MUST dump the UAW! If it wasn't for the politics they would have been gone long ago. The UAW is a parastie feasting upon the body(host) that has sustained it for years. Now the host is dying..now where do they go????
It's almost hilarious how these UAW people keep defending their product. The market has/is speaking. Not listening to the Market is what got them here...I ain't suprised!
I just checked on the availability of that 6-speed automatic, and unfortunately it looks like you need to get the 5.3 or the 6.0 V-8 in order to get it. Shame they don't offer it with the 4.3 V-6 or the 4.8 V-8.
That 4L60E tranny is probably the one thing that would keep me from getting a new GM pickup. If I was getting a pickup, it would be a fairly low-end one. Although I guess with the way the economy is, even a 5.3 with the 6-speed might not be too much of a budget buster.
Go check out another of example as in the 2010 Buick LaCrosse, which is made by those lazy, no good, american UAW workers!!!! That car kicks any imports [non-permissible content removed] all over the place!!! When GM, tries they win!!! The LaCrosse, is the greatest luxury car ever made from a styling and fit and finish standpoint!!!
The funny thing in all of this is Marsha7, drives GM cars and apparently has had some good luck with them. GM, will increase it's market share. I have a lady trading in her Infiniti M35, for a Malibu, and she said her Infiniti, is a nice car but she said she liked the way the Malibu, handled and rode as much if not more so than the M35, thus that should tell you Marsha7, just how far our cars have came. I told her wait until she drives a LTZ trim level with a V6 which is what she wants but we didn't have one in stock.
I guess with all your hate towards the UAW, we can chalk up a import for you next time, eh??? FYI- Not all of my friends who own GMT-900 trucks are UAW members. I have many friends who drive imports but are reconsidering buying Detroit 3 because they are impressed with our new products!!!
C'mon Rocky, GM should be able to do better than that. The 2010 LaCrosse looks like a gigantic stink bug. A poor copy of the Lexus which are also ugly as sin. I hope GM is not banking on the Buick to carry them through the hard times.
Buick is going backward. The 2009 LaCrosse was much nicer lines. Better proportioned. A car I would have considered if we were to replace the Lexus LS400. Not a chance with the new model. It looks like the rear wheels are at the center of the car almost.
Just not into the stinkbug look. With horrible blind spots. Looks too much like the ToyLex line that is currently on the market. To each his own for sure. I am rarely in the majority when it comes to car styling. I think MB has screwed up the E class again. The last model will be the classic. The current one just has no appeal to me. Quite frankly the only GM vehicle I would consider today is a killer price on a Corvette to stick in my garage. The only thing that is likely to get me back in a GM vehicle is a small diesel SUV. That will be tough when they shut down their NA operations. I don't see any other way to get rid of the Legacy costs and UAW work rules.
The 2010 Lacrosse is beautiful. I still see alot of Lexus styling in the design. I see nothing wrong with that. If it looks like this in the showroom, I will buy one. I just wonder how much it will cost.!!!!!!! :confuse:
But, counselor, are you confusing the assembler with the assembly. The assembler doesn't make parts that end up wearing out early or breaking or looking bad. They put them on wrong.
Nobody's answered a question I posted a long time ago in here. If the UAW is more expensive than non-union auto workers, where is the added value of the UAW for the business? If the UAW is putting together junk because the parts or design is junk, and not their assembly quality, then why don't they say something? Why don't they do something about it? It's THEIR job security, too!
What value does the higher UAW benefits and salaries provide for GM, Ford, Chrysler? Why did the UAW in their infinite wisdom strike American Axle in 2008 and AA is now nearly in bankruptcy in 2009? If the UAW wants people to find the union worthy of admiration and trust, then they should be thinking of something besides putting gold foil in their nests so the girlie birds will notice.
Go check out another of example as in the 2010 Buick LaCrosse, which is made by those lazy, no good, american UAW workers!!!! That car kicks any imports [non-permissible content removed] all over the place!!!
It's always REAL SOON NOW. The next product is the HOME RUN. We talked about this years ago in these forums! The Aura was going to be the HOME RUN and instead it was a pop fly. The Solstice was going to be a HOME RUN and it was a bunt! And next the LaCrosse, the Camaro, and of course the Volt will be HOME RUNS!!!!! Just in the future, not now.
>"Nobody's answered a question I posted a long time ago in here. If the UAW is more expensive than non-union auto workers, where is the added value of the UAW for the business? If the UAW is putting together junk because the parts or design is junk, and not their assembly quality, then why don't they say something? Why don't they do something about it? It's THEIR job security, too!"
I've wondered the same thing and asked the question "Why hasn't the UAW gone on strike, protesting poor quality parts and/or design they are required to assemble?"
Can't they understand that they are loosing members due to plant shut downs and folks flocking to the imports? CAN'T THEY UNDERSTAND THEY ARE GOING TO BE NEXT.?
Or could it be the parts or design are not the problem?
Seems the strikes only pertain to gaining more perks for the worker putting together the vehicles for the sick and dyeing goose.
The 2010 Lacrosse is beautiful. I still see alot of Lexus styling in the design.
If enough people agree with you it will be a winner. If they agree with me Buick and Lexus sales will be flat. Some people like Lemko would buy GM no matter how ugly they are. Same goes for Lexus buyers. I could care less about the interior if I cannot get past the exterior. I really dislike 4 door sedans to start with. So when they build them as ugly as the current generation I am even more turned off.
And Ugly cars are not the fault of the UAW. It is the high school drop out they hired in the design department.
I just posted an article on another thread that give the legacy costs over the last 16 years at GM. It averaged $7 billion per year. If current sales do not increase this year GM will only sell 1,524,000 vehicles. That is about $4600 per vehicle. GM cannot afford to continue business with that around their neck. This is not just a GM problem. Our government and many city and state governments have made similar promises of great pensions and health care plans. There is a growing list of those cities & states going bankrupt trying to keep their promises. Why should the working man with little hope of such a grand retirement be strapped with the promises to these UAW and civil service workers?
I believe the UAW was remiss in not requiring the companies to set aside the money on an hourly basis for the employees retirement. With a fiduciary group responsible for the payouts and investment of those funds. Expecting the current car buyer to pick up the retirement cost of someone that retired 20 years ago at 50 years of age seems ridiculous. And Unsustainable. There is no way that GM can compete with Toyota when they have to charge $4600 more per vehicle to cover past retirement and health care promises. Plus they keep adding to the legacy costs with early buyouts to get rid of the over paid UAW workers.
others: (I forgot who posted this quote...sorry)..."But, counselor, are you confusing the assembler with the assembly. The assembler doesn't make parts that end up wearing out early or breaking or looking bad. They put them on wrong."...I do not believe I am confusing them, as the union has ALWAYS had a habit of poor assembly (like doors that do not seal, dashboards that are crooked, and windows that fall out of their tracks), whereas the design of the part itself is from the non-UAW design department...
rocky: I just got back from the 2009 Auto Show...spent about 3 hours there...sat and looked at a lot, obviously did not drive any...the Jeep exhibition was deserted, NO ONE was there except the Jeeps...I don't know if that actually means something, but it does look odd when an entire exhibit has nobody there...
Ford had a number of people, and I am impressed with the 2010 Taurus (what is the Lincoln decked-out version???)...next to the 2009 Taurus, it looks like Ford is onto something...
Sat in a Buick Lucerne...this car is in trouble...the seat had zero support, sank into it like a bad hotel mattress...right next to it, however, was the 2010 LaCrosse...impressive to see...
Both the Lacross and new Taurus were on roped off pedestals and could not be touched, only viewed from a distance...
Hyundai Genesis Sedan and Coupe...Big 3 watch out, these cars drew many people and could sell many cars...
Jaguar was not there, neither was Mitsubushi...
I wanted to examine CTS, STS & DTS...in the last 2-3 weeks, the number of places I have read about DTS vibration problems that Caddy ignores has increased, so I am now unsure about DTS...so, next stop is RWD STS and CTS...the STS has been roundly criticized about lacking rear seat room, considering its overall size, so I wanted to check it out...the CTS is a compact car, room for four but not much more...so, back to STS...
NICE CAR!!!...since I am short (wife, too), I moved seats up where I would drive, and rear seat room was normal...looked good, reviews good, by both consumers and pros (but, rocky, it's a UAW product, how can ANYONE think its build quality is good???)...
Anyway, it MAY be that the DTS leaves the (never-ending) list, and the STS may move up, esp since, being a UAW product, it will sticker for $50K-plus, and drop like a rock in a year or two (BTW, that aspect of UAW products will NEVER change...since they cost too much when new due to the stupid work rules, they depreciate like rocks because they reach their true, inherent value shortly after driving off the lot)...
One question about STS...does it have adjustable pedals (show model did not) as an option???...both my Ford and my Dodge (sorry, rock, have not owned GM since 1998 Regal, which was boat anchor material) have adj pedals, great for small folks...it did look like it had telescoping wheel, which could compensate, but still pulls me closer to the dashboard...adj pedals allow me to move AWAY from the dash and steering wheel, much safer IMO...anyway, STS looked good...
People were crowding around Toyota and Honda..and Corvette...
I do not know if what I saw means ANYTHING, but when random crowds of people avoid one thing (many of the Big 3 products) and seek out another (imports), I wonder if I am watching a glimpse of the future of the car market...people use the auto show to look at cars that they may want to buy...unscientific, to be sure, since somebody looking at an Accord may have bough an F150 the previous week...but the American cars just did not seem to generate half the interest of the imports...if what I saw does indicate anything, BIg 3 are in for more trouble than even we on this board think...and the folks who sell them will be in the same situation as real estate agents are now, and that isn't a good sign...
If you really think the new 2010' Buick LaCrosse, is ugly you need to get your cataracts operated on pal. :surprise: :P :P :P I'm 30 years old and would love to have this new Buick, in my driveway and makes me wonder just how exciting the next Lucerne, could be??? gagrice, GM announced last week they are canceling the 4.5L Duramax. The article to us dealers said it could find it's way back at some point in the future. I know quite a few people I could of sold one too as some were waiting for that truck to come out!!!:sick: I heard the 2.9 diesel that was suppose to go into the CTS, is being canceled also for now. Diesel, is cheaper than gas right now thus why would they do this???
I am considering (today, you know tomorrow's list could be radically different) an STS, XJ8, Taurus or MKS; STS or XJ8 must be used and price cut in half...not worth what their new price is, no way... Taurus or MKS may have to wait until 2011, also to take advantage of depreciation...
I just cannot see buying new, and taking the depreciation hit myself, when waiting a year or two and a $60K car may be just $25K, same amenities, and MAYBE the first owner will have had most of the problems fixed under warranty...
The Genesis also looks good...
Remember, rocky, I have purchased or leased 5 Big 3 cars between 1998 and 2004...so, for all of my UAW ranting, I am probably supporting them more than you are, since I am putting my $$$ where my purchases are...how many cars have YOU bought since 1998???...not the free ones you get by working at a dealership, I mean go in and sign on the dotted line and actually buy one and make the payments...
Diesel, is cheaper than gas right now thus why would they do this???
Simple, GM has a history of making stupid mistakes. The current UAW legacy costs are a prime example. If you like the Buick LaCrosse it shows you are more interested in copies of Asian cars. That stink bug look is rampant throughout the industry. You can have it. The only Domestic vehicle that has ANY appeal, for me, outside the Corvette is the Flex. A simple clean vehicle with tons of legroom for all passengers. A small diesel engine getting 40 MPG and it would be near perfect. I have to support Ford I bought their stock and expect them to be the only one left standing. Better give your UAW friends a heads up. They need to get re-educated and move where they are not known by their bad company.
I am considering (today, you know tomorrow's list could be radically different) an STS, XJ8, Taurus or MKS; STS or XJ8 must be used and price cut in half...not worth what their new price is, no way... Taurus or MKS may have to wait until 2011, also to take advantage of depreciation...
I know the STS, isn't worth it's asking price and they aren't getting it. It's still a pretty nice car though. I think the Lincoln MKS, is a fine car and I've warmed up to the styling and it's now one of my favorite cars made. If I were to ever buy a Ford, the Lincoln MKS is my favorite Ford, of all time or well since the Fox body Mustangs aka 1990 7-Up 25th Ann. Emerald Green, Mustang Convertible. :shades: I'm not a fan of the Taurus, but am glad management finally decided to do something positive with the Taurus, nameplate.
I personally don't like the XJ8 and the only one worth getting is the XJR and the one better than that but I forget what it's called. So I assume you don't like the 2010 Buick LaCrosse, either??? I love the exterior and interior styling because while it says Buick, some of the cues remind me of Mercedes, Lexus, and Acura. Maybe I'm the only one who see's it but hey I love the LaCrosse. I am as you know a huge CTS-V, fan and love the Saab, brand. I guess once Saab, leaves GM, I will shed some tears. Oh well the LaCrosse, is getting the XWD system from Saab, but it's only available on the CXL, trim for now. I hope they come out with a "Super" version in a few years and slap a turbocharger or two along with XWD on the "high feature" 3.6 V6 and it puts out 350-400 hp. :shades:
I just cannot see buying new, and taking the depreciation hit myself, when waiting a year or two and a $60K car may be just $25K, same amenities, and MAYBE the first owner will have had most of the problems fixed under warranty...
Well the residuals on used cars aka pre-owned have jumped on the GM, side $1500-$2500 in the last few months. We noticed this jump on the GMAC "smart auction" thus buying and finding pre-owned off lease cars has became a challenge since GMAC, quit leasing. All these import company's that are doing leases will have to swallow there poison pills in 3 or 4 years when the market tells them there cars projected residual isn't what they thought it was going to be. The new CTS, has the highest residual value of any car on the market and the Enclave, is holding it's value also because I thought I'd be able to find one for my Grandma, but I'm thinking I might have to sacrifice a sale and tell her to buy a new one because it might make more sense for her. I wished I had the Buick, Cadillac, and GMC brand to sell because those 3 brands would do very well at my location.
The Genesis also looks good...
Yep!!! It ended up being way more expensive than what the press was telling us. I'd rather own a MKS, because from a technology standpoint the MKS, probably has the most gadgets on the market. It is only a Turbocharged ECO BOOST engine away from being a phenomenal automobile!!!
Remember, rocky, I have purchased or leased 5 Big 3 cars between 1998 and 2004...so, for all of my UAW ranting, I am probably supporting them more than you are, since I am putting my $$$ where my purchases are...how many cars have YOU bought since 1998???
I have owned a couple. A 2000 Chevy Z-71 Sidestep (Lease) and a 2001 Pontiac Grand-AM GT 75th Ann. edition that I purchased. The rest of my Big 3 cars have been pre-owned.
not the free ones you get by working at a dealership, I mean go in and sign on the dotted line and actually buy one and make the payments...
We didn't get "demo" priveledges at Classic Chevrolet, my first dealership I worked at. Saturn of Holland, you had to work there for 3 months and by the time I was elgible they were annoucing that they were closing the dealership thus I never got one. It also wasn't free because you had to pay a small amount (like $30) out of your check each week. My currently dealership you get a demo but from what I can see everyone drives a pre-owned unit. I will get that sometime next month and will try to sell my Impala, outright unless my boss works a deal with me and I can dump it in our pre-owned inventory. I just need to break even on it and that would be another $370 in a month in my pocket. I don't think they charge us for demo's either and the fact that I drive 26 miles one way it wouldn't make much sense to drive a new one.
Simple, GM has a history of making stupid mistakes. The current UAW legacy costs are a prime example. If you like the Buick LaCrosse it shows you are more interested in copies of Asian cars.
Whatever!!! The LaCrosse, is a work of art!!! I can see some Acura TL, look in it. The last generation TL, had some Alfa Romeo inspiration and stealing great design cues and making em your own is a good thing!!!
That stink bug look is rampant throughout the industry. You can have it. The only Domestic vehicle that has ANY appeal, for me, outside the Corvette is the Flex.
The Ford Flex??? :surprise: Are you Serious??? :confuse: Gagrice, are you legally blind??? I asked my cousin that when he said that he liked it and he is a RN. I told him if you think the Flex, is a great looking exterior I don't know if I'd want you working on me!!! LOL!!! :P I will say the Flex, has a decent interior and I guess like a ugly chick you have to get pass her exterior because underneath might lie a beautifult person thus the same could be said for the Flex, eh???
Whatever!!! The LaCrosse, is a work of art!!! I can see some Acura TL, look in it. The last generation TL, had some Alfa Romeo inspiration and stealing great design cues and making em your own is a good thing!!!
I tend to agree. I do like the design inside and out of the new LaCrosse. The only thing I really, really don't like are those stupid fake portholes on the hood. IMHO, it completely ruins the lines of the car. I know it's Buick staple, but to me that is a part of Buick that needs to go. Buick's heritage means very little to potential customers like me outside of the fact that Buick is suppose to be a premium car, not a redressed, warmed over Chevy with a softer suspension and cushy seats. But overall, it looks to me to be a huge improvement over the current LaCrosse and may possibly put Buick back on the map for premium cars.
The Ford Flex??? :surprise: Are you Serious??? :confuse: Gagrice, are you legally blind??? I asked my cousin that when he said that he liked it and he is a RN. I told him if you think the Flex, is a great looking exterior I don't know if I'd want you working on me!!! LOL!!!
Call me whatever you want, but I kind of like the Flex. It's different and seems to be a versatile vehicle. The few I've seen on the road have a distinctive look that I find moderately appealing. No, I'd probably never buy one, but I like the fact Ford was willing to take a risk with that type of design.
When Better Automobiles are Built, Buick Will Build Them!!! Oh, you better believe I've got my eye on a 2010 LaCrosse. My girlfriend's 2005 model has been a fantastic car and the 2010 is much nicer.
The Lexus ES as a standard? Maybe for a "Camry Deluxe." Toyota's own Avalon seems like a much nicer car.
Call me whatever you want, but I kind of like the Flex. It's different and seems to be a versatile vehicle.
I like cars with classic lines. I usually buy vehicles with utility. I really cannot think of a 4 door sedan that I like the looks of currently. If the Flex had a decent diesel engine I would consider it, even if it was built by the UAW.
> Lexus ES as a standard? Maybe for a "Camry Deluxe." Toyota's own Avalon seems like a much nicer car
Toyota seems to have schmoozed their followers with the idea that a Camry by any other name is not a Camry. The Avalon was based on the previous Camry chassis. The newer chassis Camry is rebadged as a Lexus with interior pieces that fit and aren't crooked, I hope. I hope they also look like they were meant to be coordinated with each other. I another forum a poster gloated how his Camry V6 was really a Lexus motor and his car was really just a Lexus with Camry name: they're all Camrys. Were that GM could have schmoozed their shoppers with such smoke and mirrors.
Buick's heritage means EVERYTHING to me!!! I'd rather have the image of a being a doddering old geezer of my Grandpop's generation than have the unpatriotic, treacherous, hypocrital, spoiled, selfish, materialistic, hedonistic, immoral drug-addicted, immature, spiritually bankrupt image of the Boomer's generation.
No one has commented on the article..., so I'll respond.
The key thesis is "But for students of American labor, the urgent question is whether the UAW even once asked its good friend Shioji to use his leverage in solidarity with American workers." UAW made their mistake then. If the foreign transplants despite all the other perks they were handed on platinum platters by bidding political entities would NOT have had the benefit of nonunion labor, we might now be having this conversation today about US makers surviving the uneven playing field. The UAW goofed.
Perhaps Osama will get them the card signup for unionizing and Honda Ohio and Toyota Kentucky will end up unionized. But the UAW has looked so bad in the eyes of the public, I suspect in Ohio they'll have a tough time unionizing the two plants.
I will say the Flex, has a decent interior and I guess like a ugly chick you have to get pass her exterior because underneath might lie a beautifult person thus the same could be said for the Flex, eh?
When you consider the interior is what you look at while driving it should be the best part of the vehicle. It is obvious most people do not care about the eye pollution caused by their cars. Just look at all the ugly designs out their. You probably thought the Aztek was good looking because it was GM gem. Personally I think the new generation of Cadillacs are downright ugly. To each his own. You would not get me into one of them. I did drive the new generation Escalade and it was nice to drive. Seats were not as comfortable as the 2006 and earlier Escalade. Not the UAW's fault they have cut corners and put in cheap cardboard seats. Or is it?
Why slave away in a maquilladoro for $3 an hour when you can cross the border and make $10+ doing day labor? I doubt many Mexican GM workers can even afford a used Aveo let alone a new GMC truck.
No one has commented on the article..., so I'll respond.
It was a long article. I would say that it was a combination of UAW ignorance and arrogance that dismissed the imports as not being competition for the BIG 3.
It looks like they have tried and failed several times to organize the Honda plants in Ohio. If you cannot get 33% to sign cards secretly for an election. How will they get 51% to sign cards in open rebellion against Honda. I would say the Honda workers are more interested in keeping the good jobs they have than joining the UAW workers on the picket and unemployment lines.
I doubt many Mexican GM workers can even afford a used Aveo let alone a new GMC truck.
I see a lot of Suburbans in Mexico. Maybe they are not so inflated down there with the lower labor costs. I doubt they sell Aveo in Mexico. They are built in Korea. Mexico has high import duties last I checked. I think you are not seeing Latin America as it really is. Brazil is growing fast and raising the standard of living at a fast pace. Mexico is mostly depressed by corrupt politicians and drug lords.
I don't know about PA, in CA day labor is pretty much universal $100 per day for 8 hours, with a lunch break. Same for legal and illegal workers. The Legals do not like the illegals because to get a green card Mexicans had to come up with $4000 for a 10 year card. The Mexican I hire lives in TJ and drives a Ford Focus back and forth. He was just complaining that the Highway Patrol has a checkpoint to make sure Mexican licensed cars have US liability insurance. That is a good thing. I told him welcome to American ways.
Yeah, and if the Big Three fall and the country plunges into a depression, the only cars they'll be crowding around is whatever hooptie happens to be available at the local Buy-Here-Pay-Here lot at usurious terms and hoping their meagre Wal~Mart checks cover the weekly nut.
You know as well as I do that the Auto industry is no longer that large a part of our economy. It is not even close to the home construction industry. It may cause a ripple that will mainly be felt in the Midwest. CA will not even flinch and the same for the Eastern Seaboard states. The Midwest is gasping for air with over paid UAW workers waving the flag and saying buy from US because we are entitled to it. Even if we don't give a hoot about what leaves the factory.
Thanks for the link. That's an interesting article, but it doesn't square with what I've read & heard about Japanese unions: they're much tamer than their U.S. counterparts. I could be wrong about this, but it's my impression that Japan doesn't have a tradition of militant unionism found elsewhere in the world - for example, in nearby South Korea, where unions really play hardball.
Some years ago, I read about a Japanese union that decided to picket its employer (not an automaker). To avoid embarrassing the company, union members manned the picket line on Sundays & holidays only - not on regular work days. That's my image of labor unions in Japan.
Because Japanese society prizes consensus, I can imagine that Honda & Toyota management gave labor a courtesy call before moving some production overseas. But I doubt that labor would have been allowed to veto such an important decision.
By contrast, German labor unions are vastly more powerful. Labor representatives sit on company boards, & unions have great political influence. In Germany, labor would have to be on board before a decision of this sort could be made.
If the foreign transplants despite all the other perks they were handed on platinum platters by bidding political entities would NOT have had the benefit of nonunion labor, we might now be having this conversation today about US makers surviving the uneven playing field.
Sorry, but my heart does not bleed for the D3. Honda set up shop in Ohio way back in 1984 - a quarter-century ago. GM, Ford & Chrysler have had plenty of time to fix the "uneven playing field". This isn't something that happened recently, like the credit crunch.
If this is supposed to scare me into supporting a bail-out for the D3, it ain't working. And if you want to see auto manufacturing in this country survive & thrive, you should support bankruptcy reorganization, which will give the stronger brands their best chance.
Actually they started building in 1977 and opened the Marysville plant in 1979. The UAW tried to organize them from the get go. Finally closed their UAW office in 1994. To reopen and try again in 2001. Some workers know when they have a good job and do not want to bankrupt the company for their own personal greed. Too bad the UAW workers are not of that mentality.
When the plant opened in Marysville in 1979, only sixty-four employees worked there. They manufactured small dirt bikes for the company.
Over the years Honda of America's Marysville facility has grown tremendously. It now employs approximately 13,000 people at four separate manufacturing locations near Marysville. The plants are capable of producing most types of Honda motor vehicles-- from dirt bikes to cars to trucks. Honda of America also has several other firms in Ohio, including Honda Transmission Manufacturing, Honda Research and Development -- Ohio Center, Honda Trading, and an American Honda service parts and training center. The company also owns a soybean processing plant in Ohio. Honda's companies in Ohio combined employ 16,000 workers, approximately two-thirds of all Honda employees in the United States.
You SHOULD be scared. I live in a city that lost its entire manufacturing industry. It can be a very scary and violent place. Now, imagine a whole COUNTRY where all the manufacturing industry has vanished! Welcome to the USA (Ugly Slum of America).
Comments
And, since all you know are UAW people, they bought their trucks with subtantial, and well-deserved, discounts...you would be hard pressed to fins any UAW worker that will criticize anything they make, simply because it is all they know...if a piece of junk has no engine, but 4 wheels, and it is all you know, then it is the best you have ever seen...
Your problem rocky, is simple...it also applies to lemko...for any and all the folks you can find that call Big 3 products bulletproof, there are, apparenly, hundreds of thousands of others who don't, simply because of Big 3 market share...
You can make all your arguments to me you want, but the market is proving you wrong by the day... people are buying what they want, and what they want, in increasing numbers, are imports, which, on the whole, they seem to be happy with...respond all you want, it ain't gonna help...
As we say in law, you have the right to your own opinions, but not your own facts...and the facts are that imports have been growing because Americans are fed up with poor UAW quality, and are deserting Big 3 in droves...and, while that may sound unpatriotic, it is even MORE unpatriotic to buy a piece of junk just because your UAW neighbor makes it...they must EARN the business, a concept you may not understand, and union folks think it is theirs by divine right...you had our respect in the 50s and 60s, made trash in the 70s, 80s and 90s, and gave yourself a bad enough reputation that it survives to this day...and, considering how folks here have written about the poor quality of vehicles in 2004, 2005, 2006, it is a wonder that anyone buys Big 3 at all, because they apparently have not learned their lesson enough...a great Malibu, CTS and Lucerne are not enough to carry the day...
Wake up, rocky...you are cheerleading in front of the crowd, but the 4th quarter ended 30 minutes ago, the stands are empty, but you can't tell because your blindfold is still on...the UAW is toast, but the Big 3 can file Ch 11, dump the UAW, and emerge stronger with new workers w/o that welfare entitlement attitude and actually want to work instead of collect a paycheck for doing nothing or making cars whose qualtiy barely qualifies them to be boat anchors for an oceangoing vessel...
But, counselor, are you confusing the assembler with the assembly. The assembler doesn't make parts that end up wearing out early or breaking or looking bad. They put them on wrong.
Isn't this parallel to blaming attorneys for the laws that they use (misuse) to prove people guilty or get them off? Maybe we can start through some cases out of Jorja that have been travesties of justice and misuse of laws to harass people.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'm guessing that one had the beefier 4-speed automatic? I think it's called the 4L80E? My uncle's '97 Silverado just has the 4L60E, or whatever it's called. It's just a half-ton truck, 4.3 V-6, and he's never towed anything with it, so it's not like he's ever made that truck do any heavy work. Yet it's eaten two transmissions. I think the first was around 70,000 miles, and the second was around 108,000. It has around 116,000 on it now.
I have a friend with an '05 Silverado, with about 100,000 miles on it. I was surprised when he said he's never had any transmission trouble with it. Then I found out why...it's a stick shift!
With the current crop of GM pickups, they do still use that old 4-speed that tends to chew up early, but there is a 6-speed automatic that's optional. I think it's the one named after a chick. Allison? Or maybe it's just a new 6-speed that GM came out with all by themselves, but anyway, it's supposed to be a pretty big improvement.
There are 2; the 6 sp auto is a new tranny (6L80e, I believe) for the regular duty trucks, and the 6 sp Allison auto for bigger applications (the big block gas and Duramax it's actually a medium duty truck tranny)
It's almost hilarious how these UAW people keep defending their product. The market has/is speaking. Not listening to the Market is what got them here...I ain't suprised!
Maybe, YOU!!!!
That 4L60E tranny is probably the one thing that would keep me from getting a new GM pickup. If I was getting a pickup, it would be a fairly low-end one. Although I guess with the way the economy is, even a 5.3 with the 6-speed might not be too much of a budget buster.
The funny thing in all of this is Marsha7, drives GM cars and apparently has had some good luck with them. GM, will increase it's market share. I have a lady trading in her Infiniti M35, for a Malibu, and she said her Infiniti, is a nice car but she said she liked the way the Malibu, handled and rode as much if not more so than the M35, thus that should tell you Marsha7, just how far our cars have came. I told her wait until she drives a LTZ trim level with a V6 which is what she wants but we didn't have one in stock.
I guess with all your hate towards the UAW, we can chalk up a import for you next time, eh??? FYI- Not all of my friends who own GMT-900 trucks are UAW members. I have many friends who drive imports but are reconsidering buying Detroit 3 because they are impressed with our new products!!!
-Rocky
GMC are junk.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
Buick is going backward. The 2009 LaCrosse was much nicer lines. Better proportioned. A car I would have considered if we were to replace the Lexus LS400. Not a chance with the new model. It looks like the rear wheels are at the center of the car almost.
Nicest Buick inside I've seen in many, many moons!
Regards,
OW
Is this really circleW posting? An imposter? The post says something good about GM... Good.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Nobody's answered a question I posted a long time ago in here. If the UAW is more expensive than non-union auto workers, where is the added value of the UAW for the business? If the UAW is putting together junk because the parts or design is junk, and not their assembly quality, then why don't they say something? Why don't they do something about it? It's THEIR job security, too!
What value does the higher UAW benefits and salaries provide for GM, Ford, Chrysler? Why did the UAW in their infinite wisdom strike American Axle in 2008 and AA is now nearly in bankruptcy in 2009? If the UAW wants people to find the union worthy of admiration and trust, then they should be thinking of something besides putting gold foil in their nests so the girlie birds will notice.
It's always REAL SOON NOW. The next product is the HOME RUN. We talked about this years ago in these forums! The Aura was going to be the HOME RUN and instead it was a pop fly. The Solstice was going to be a HOME RUN and it was a bunt! And next the LaCrosse, the Camaro, and of course the Volt will be HOME RUNS!!!!! Just in the future, not now.
GM, will increase it's market share.
LOL!!
I've wondered the same thing and asked the question "Why hasn't the UAW gone on strike, protesting poor quality parts and/or design they are required to assemble?"
Can't they understand that they are loosing members due to plant shut downs and folks flocking to the imports? CAN'T THEY UNDERSTAND THEY ARE GOING TO BE NEXT.?
Or could it be the parts or design are not the problem?
Seems the strikes only pertain to gaining more perks for the worker putting together the vehicles for the sick and dyeing goose.
Kip
If enough people agree with you it will be a winner. If they agree with me Buick and Lexus sales will be flat. Some people like Lemko would buy GM no matter how ugly they are. Same goes for Lexus buyers. I could care less about the interior if I cannot get past the exterior. I really dislike 4 door sedans to start with. So when they build them as ugly as the current generation I am even more turned off.
And Ugly cars are not the fault of the UAW. It is the high school drop out they hired in the design department.
I believe the UAW was remiss in not requiring the companies to set aside the money on an hourly basis for the employees retirement. With a fiduciary group responsible for the payouts and investment of those funds. Expecting the current car buyer to pick up the retirement cost of someone that retired 20 years ago at 50 years of age seems ridiculous. And Unsustainable. There is no way that GM can compete with Toyota when they have to charge $4600 more per vehicle to cover past retirement and health care promises. Plus they keep adding to the legacy costs with early buyouts to get rid of the over paid UAW workers.
Regards,
OW
rocky: I just got back from the 2009 Auto Show...spent about 3 hours there...sat and looked at a lot, obviously did not drive any...the Jeep exhibition was deserted, NO ONE was there except the Jeeps...I don't know if that actually means something, but it does look odd when an entire exhibit has nobody there...
Ford had a number of people, and I am impressed with the 2010 Taurus (what is the Lincoln decked-out version???)...next to the 2009 Taurus, it looks like Ford is onto something...
Sat in a Buick Lucerne...this car is in trouble...the seat had zero support, sank into it like a bad hotel mattress...right next to it, however, was the 2010 LaCrosse...impressive to see...
Both the Lacross and new Taurus were on roped off pedestals and could not be touched, only viewed from a distance...
Hyundai Genesis Sedan and Coupe...Big 3 watch out, these cars drew many people and could sell many cars...
Jaguar was not there, neither was Mitsubushi...
I wanted to examine CTS, STS & DTS...in the last 2-3 weeks, the number of places I have read about DTS vibration problems that Caddy ignores has increased, so I am now unsure about DTS...so, next stop is RWD STS and CTS...the STS has been roundly criticized about lacking rear seat room, considering its overall size, so I wanted to check it out...the CTS is a compact car, room for four but not much more...so, back to STS...
NICE CAR!!!...since I am short (wife, too), I moved seats up where I would drive, and rear seat room was normal...looked good, reviews good, by both consumers and pros (but, rocky, it's a UAW product, how can ANYONE think its build quality is good???)...
Anyway, it MAY be that the DTS leaves the (never-ending) list, and the STS may move up, esp since, being a UAW product, it will sticker for $50K-plus, and drop like a rock in a year or two (BTW, that aspect of UAW products will NEVER change...since they cost too much when new due to the stupid work rules, they depreciate like rocks because they reach their true, inherent value shortly after driving off the lot)...
One question about STS...does it have adjustable pedals (show model did not) as an option???...both my Ford and my Dodge (sorry, rock, have not owned GM since 1998 Regal, which was boat anchor material) have adj pedals, great for small folks...it did look like it had telescoping wheel, which could compensate, but still pulls me closer to the dashboard...adj pedals allow me to move AWAY from the dash and steering wheel, much safer IMO...anyway, STS looked good...
People were crowding around Toyota and Honda..and Corvette...
I do not know if what I saw means ANYTHING, but when random crowds of people avoid one thing (many of the Big 3 products) and seek out another (imports), I wonder if I am watching a glimpse of the future of the car market...people use the auto show to look at cars that they may want to buy...unscientific, to be sure, since somebody looking at an Accord may have bough an F150 the previous week...but the American cars just did not seem to generate half the interest of the imports...if what I saw does indicate anything, BIg 3 are in for more trouble than even we on this board think...and the folks who sell them will be in the same situation as real estate agents are now, and that isn't a good sign...
-Rocky
-Rocky
Taurus or MKS may have to wait until 2011, also to take advantage of depreciation...
I just cannot see buying new, and taking the depreciation hit myself, when waiting a year or two and a $60K car may be just $25K, same amenities, and MAYBE the first owner will have had most of the problems fixed under warranty...
The Genesis also looks good...
Remember, rocky, I have purchased or leased 5 Big 3 cars between 1998 and 2004...so, for all of my UAW ranting, I am probably supporting them more than you are, since I am putting my $$$ where my purchases are...how many cars have YOU bought since 1998???...not the free ones you get by working at a dealership, I mean go in and sign on the dotted line and actually buy one and make the payments...
Simple, GM has a history of making stupid mistakes. The current UAW legacy costs are a prime example. If you like the Buick LaCrosse it shows you are more interested in copies of Asian cars. That stink bug look is rampant throughout the industry. You can have it. The only Domestic vehicle that has ANY appeal, for me, outside the Corvette is the Flex. A simple clean vehicle with tons of legroom for all passengers. A small diesel engine getting 40 MPG and it would be near perfect. I have to support Ford I bought their stock and expect them to be the only one left standing. Better give your UAW friends a heads up. They need to get re-educated and move where they are not known by their bad company.
Taurus or MKS may have to wait until 2011, also to take advantage of depreciation...
I know the STS, isn't worth it's asking price and they aren't getting it. It's still a pretty nice car though. I think the Lincoln MKS, is a fine car and I've warmed up to the styling and it's now one of my favorite cars made. If I were to ever buy a Ford, the Lincoln MKS is my favorite Ford, of all time or well since the Fox body Mustangs aka 1990 7-Up 25th Ann. Emerald Green, Mustang Convertible. :shades:
I'm not a fan of the Taurus, but am glad management finally decided to do something positive with the Taurus, nameplate.
I personally don't like the XJ8 and the only one worth getting is the XJR and the one better than that but I forget what it's called. So I assume you don't like the 2010 Buick LaCrosse, either??? I love the exterior and interior styling because while it says Buick, some of the cues remind me of Mercedes, Lexus, and Acura. Maybe I'm the only one who see's it but hey I love the LaCrosse. I am as you know a huge CTS-V, fan and love the Saab, brand. I guess once Saab, leaves GM, I will shed some tears. Oh well the LaCrosse, is getting the XWD system from Saab, but it's only available on the CXL, trim for now. I hope they come out with a "Super" version in a few years and slap a turbocharger or two along with XWD on the "high feature" 3.6 V6 and it puts out 350-400 hp. :shades:
I just cannot see buying new, and taking the depreciation hit myself, when waiting a year or two and a $60K car may be just $25K, same amenities, and MAYBE the first owner will have had most of the problems fixed under warranty...
Well the residuals on used cars aka pre-owned have jumped on the GM, side $1500-$2500 in the last few months. We noticed this jump on the GMAC "smart auction" thus buying and finding pre-owned off lease cars has became a challenge since GMAC, quit leasing. All these import company's that are doing leases will have to swallow there poison pills in 3 or 4 years when the market tells them there cars projected residual isn't what they thought it was going to be. The new CTS, has the highest residual value of any car on the market and the Enclave, is holding it's value also because I thought I'd be able to find one for my Grandma, but I'm thinking I might have to sacrifice a sale and tell her to buy a new one because it might make more sense for her. I wished I had the Buick, Cadillac, and GMC brand to sell because those 3 brands would do very well at my location.
The Genesis also looks good...
Yep!!! It ended up being way more expensive than what the press was telling us. I'd rather own a MKS, because from a technology standpoint the MKS, probably has the most gadgets on the market. It is only a Turbocharged ECO BOOST engine away from being a phenomenal automobile!!!
Remember, rocky, I have purchased or leased 5 Big 3 cars between 1998 and 2004...so, for all of my UAW ranting, I am probably supporting them more than you are, since I am putting my $$$ where my purchases are...how many cars have YOU bought since 1998???
I have owned a couple. A 2000 Chevy Z-71 Sidestep (Lease) and a 2001 Pontiac Grand-AM GT 75th Ann. edition that I purchased. The rest of my Big 3 cars have been pre-owned.
not the free ones you get by working at a dealership, I mean go in and sign on the dotted line and actually buy one and make the payments...
We didn't get "demo" priveledges at Classic Chevrolet, my first dealership I worked at. Saturn of Holland, you had to work there for 3 months and by the time I was elgible they were annoucing that they were closing the dealership thus I never got one. It also wasn't free because you had to pay a small amount (like $30) out of your check each week. My currently dealership you get a demo but from what I can see everyone drives a pre-owned unit. I will get that sometime next month and will try to sell my Impala, outright unless my boss works a deal with me and I can dump it in our pre-owned inventory. I just need to break even on it and that would be another $370 in a month in my pocket. I don't think they charge us for demo's either and the fact that I drive 26 miles one way it wouldn't make much sense to drive a new one.
-Rocky
Whatever!!! The LaCrosse, is a work of art!!! I can see some Acura TL, look in it. The last generation TL, had some Alfa Romeo inspiration and stealing great design cues and making em your own is a good thing!!!
That stink bug look is rampant throughout the industry. You can have it. The only Domestic vehicle that has ANY appeal, for me, outside the Corvette is the Flex.
The Ford Flex??? :surprise: Are you Serious??? :confuse: Gagrice, are you legally blind??? I asked my cousin that when he said that he liked it and he is a RN. I told him if you think the Flex, is a great looking exterior I don't know if I'd want you working on me!!! LOL!!! :P I will say the Flex, has a decent interior and I guess like a ugly chick you have to get pass her exterior because underneath might lie a beautifult person thus the same could be said for the Flex, eh???
-Rocky
I tend to agree. I do like the design inside and out of the new LaCrosse. The only thing I really, really don't like are those stupid fake portholes on the hood. IMHO, it completely ruins the lines of the car. I know it's Buick staple, but to me that is a part of Buick that needs to go. Buick's heritage means very little to potential customers like me outside of the fact that Buick is suppose to be a premium car, not a redressed, warmed over Chevy with a softer suspension and cushy seats. But overall, it looks to me to be a huge improvement over the current LaCrosse and may possibly put Buick back on the map for premium cars.
The Ford Flex??? :surprise: Are you Serious??? :confuse: Gagrice, are you legally blind??? I asked my cousin that when he said that he liked it and he is a RN. I told him if you think the Flex, is a great looking exterior I don't know if I'd want you working on me!!! LOL!!!
Call me whatever you want, but I kind of like the Flex. It's different and seems to be a versatile vehicle. The few I've seen on the road have a distinctive look that I find moderately appealing. No, I'd probably never buy one, but I like the fact Ford was willing to take a risk with that type of design.
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-cutler6-2008dec06,0,14454- 37.story
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The Lexus ES as a standard? Maybe for a "Camry Deluxe." Toyota's own Avalon seems like a much nicer car.
I like cars with classic lines. I usually buy vehicles with utility. I really cannot think of a 4 door sedan that I like the looks of currently. If the Flex had a decent diesel engine I would consider it, even if it was built by the UAW.
Toyota seems to have schmoozed their followers with the idea that a Camry by any other name is not a Camry. The Avalon was based on the previous Camry chassis. The newer chassis Camry is rebadged as a Lexus with interior pieces that fit and aren't crooked, I hope. I hope they also look like they were meant to be coordinated with each other. I another forum a poster gloated how his Camry V6 was really a Lexus motor and his car was really just a Lexus with Camry name: they're all Camrys. Were that GM could have schmoozed their shoppers with such smoke and mirrors.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The key thesis is "But for students of American labor, the urgent question is whether the UAW even once asked its good friend Shioji to use his leverage in solidarity with American workers." UAW made their mistake then. If the foreign transplants despite all the other perks they were handed on platinum platters by bidding political entities would NOT have had the benefit of nonunion labor, we might now be having this conversation today about US makers surviving the uneven playing field. The UAW goofed.
Perhaps Osama will get them the card signup for unionizing and Honda Ohio and Toyota Kentucky will end up unionized. But the UAW has looked so bad in the eyes of the public, I suspect in Ohio they'll have a tough time unionizing the two plants.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
When you consider the interior is what you look at while driving it should be the best part of the vehicle. It is obvious most people do not care about the eye pollution caused by their cars. Just look at all the ugly designs out their. You probably thought the Aztek was good looking because it was GM gem. Personally I think the new generation of Cadillacs are downright ugly. To each his own. You would not get me into one of them. I did drive the new generation Escalade and it was nice to drive. Seats were not as comfortable as the 2006 and earlier Escalade. Not the UAW's fault they have cut corners and put in cheap cardboard seats. Or is it?
It was a long article. I would say that it was a combination of UAW ignorance and arrogance that dismissed the imports as not being competition for the BIG 3.
It looks like they have tried and failed several times to organize the Honda plants in Ohio. If you cannot get 33% to sign cards secretly for an election. How will they get 51% to sign cards in open rebellion against Honda. I would say the Honda workers are more interested in keeping the good jobs they have than joining the UAW workers on the picket and unemployment lines.
Wow, Rocky! You sound just like my girlfriend. You'd think she was driving a Rolls-Royce the way she praises her Buick!
I see a lot of Suburbans in Mexico. Maybe they are not so inflated down there with the lower labor costs. I doubt they sell Aveo in Mexico. They are built in Korea. Mexico has high import duties last I checked. I think you are not seeing Latin America as it really is. Brazil is growing fast and raising the standard of living at a fast pace. Mexico is mostly depressed by corrupt politicians and drug lords.
I don't know about PA, in CA day labor is pretty much universal $100 per day for 8 hours, with a lunch break. Same for legal and illegal workers. The Legals do not like the illegals because to get a green card Mexicans had to come up with $4000 for a 10 year card. The Mexican I hire lives in TJ and drives a Ford Focus back and forth. He was just complaining that the Highway Patrol has a checkpoint to make sure Mexican licensed cars have US liability insurance. That is a good thing. I told him welcome to American ways.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Some years ago, I read about a Japanese union that decided to picket its employer (not an automaker). To avoid embarrassing the company, union members manned the picket line on Sundays & holidays only - not on regular work days. That's my image of labor unions in Japan.
Because Japanese society prizes consensus, I can imagine that Honda & Toyota management gave labor a courtesy call before moving some production overseas. But I doubt that labor would have been allowed to veto such an important decision.
By contrast, German labor unions are vastly more powerful. Labor representatives sit on company boards, & unions have great political influence. In Germany, labor would have to be on board before a decision of this sort could be made.
Sorry, but my heart does not bleed for the D3. Honda set up shop in Ohio way back in 1984 - a quarter-century ago. GM, Ford & Chrysler have had plenty of time to fix the "uneven playing field". This isn't something that happened recently, like the credit crunch.
If this is supposed to scare me into supporting a bail-out for the D3, it ain't working. And if you want to see auto manufacturing in this country survive & thrive, you should support bankruptcy reorganization, which will give the stronger brands their best chance.
Actually they started building in 1977 and opened the Marysville plant in 1979. The UAW tried to organize them from the get go. Finally closed their UAW office in 1994. To reopen and try again in 2001. Some workers know when they have a good job and do not want to bankrupt the company for their own personal greed. Too bad the UAW workers are not of that mentality.
When the plant opened in Marysville in 1979, only sixty-four employees worked there. They manufactured small dirt bikes for the company.
Over the years Honda of America's Marysville facility has grown tremendously. It now employs approximately 13,000 people at four separate manufacturing locations near Marysville. The plants are capable of producing most types of Honda motor vehicles-- from dirt bikes to cars to trucks. Honda of America also has several other firms in Ohio, including Honda Transmission Manufacturing, Honda Research and Development -- Ohio Center, Honda Trading, and an American Honda service parts and training center. The company also owns a soybean processing plant in Ohio. Honda's companies in Ohio combined employ 16,000 workers, approximately two-thirds of all Honda employees in the United States.
http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=1666