Better buy a supply of vehicles for your future needs. I think you are seeing the last of the Mohicans. Last survey the top choice was the F150 with 85% American Content. That includes Mexico and Canada. They drop fast from there.
If the UAW exists 5 years from now it will be to assemble parts from China and elsewhere. It will be like all that furniture from China that you assemble yourself. Get your latest car in a box. Screwdriver only tool required.
Wrong... IBM is still an American company. You are confusing the sale of IBM's personal computer division (ThinkPad, etc.) to Lenovo, a Chinese company - who BTW always manufactured the ThinkPad. However, IBM, and all of its other divisions, remain an American company.
Not to move off-topic, but many consumers think all of Apple products are manufactured here in the USA. In fact, practically all of Apple's products are manufactured by Foxconn, the largest OEM electronics manufacturer in the world, and they're based in China.
We should protest the imports for competing with our companies. Then we should throw up huge tariffs against those imports (even the ones made/assembled in this country. After all, a union job is more important than a non-union job from a southerner. Then the D3 will be restored to their days of glory, and the consumer will just have no choice but to buy what they make.
But tlong, you're missing the bigger problem here. Even when they have no protection their work still sucks, imagine what will happen when they get protection?
You can say union jobs are more important, but those living in RTW states will think differently.
How can you pull that move to force consumers to buy domestics when it's against the basic principles of our economy, free trade?
Hell, even if such tariff placing takes place, I'll just spend more and buy a better car instead of less for a crappy car.
I don't care even the slightest where a car is made or built as long as it meets my standards.
And by my standards, the only domestics that pass the mark are Corvette, CTS, and Tahoe. Of all 3 I only have interest in the CTS's class, and that class is full of better contenders, namely G37, BMW 3, Audi A4, MB C350. Will I choose CTS because it's American? No thanks, I'll choose the better car, price tags be damned.
China and Japan are getting along pretty well these days, at least in the car biz. Chinese sales pretty much saved Honda's year (link). I thought I read that a Chinese built Honda or Toyota was going to be exported to Japan, but I can't find a link.
Meanwhile in Detroit:
"Disagreements over changes to the UAW's retiree health care trust and the union's unhappiness with General Motors Corp.'s plans to increase imports from various foreign countries are believed to be throwing a wrench into labor talks."
I have a HUGE problem with importing ANY cars from China! If Obama has no problem with importing cars from China, I have a huge problem with Obama! Heck, I don't like importing ANYTHING from China. All that does is enrich our future enemy. Boy, Americans are so short-sighted and naive! :mad:
I think you are being a bit naive. The reason they may be imported from China is that the D3/UAW cannot make such a car at the price point the market dictates.
As an aside, somebody mentioned IBM/Lenova several posts back. My company used to lease only IBM PC's, until that division was sold to a Chinese company - Lenova. Now all of our PC's have the HP logo on them. I'm sure they are still built/assembled in SE Asia, but at least it's by a US company.
Another aside - wifey works for the feds, and they give her a small laptop PC to use at home on days she's telecommuting. Guess what the brand is? Fujitsu!!! So even the US government, through its GAO schedule, buys lots of product from non-US entities.
About 1 in 5 IBM Employees Now in India and IBM Offers Laid Off Workers Jobs In India. American company now, but for how much longer?
It's funny. In these forums the argument against buying say, a US made Honda CRV is that "the parts come from outside the US" and "it was designed in Japan, the profits go back to Japan". So by using that same argument, even if IBM is employing a lot of staff in India, the "planning and intellectual knowledge is from the US, and the profits flow back to the US". So there should be no problem. :P
Yeah, that is comical, my argument on "profits flowing back to the home country" is that I don't see hardly any of that, that goes to upper mgmt. or corporate HQ. I'd much rather take the path that brings the most money to middle class America as well as the local tax base.
How much longer do you think IBM will be based in the US?
Or, more topical, Chrysler and/or General Motors.
The way I see it is that the UAW costs and restrictions have made it uneconomical to be a successful car manufacturer in the US. Not only the costs, but the work rules that segment the worker population into rigid job classifications, and the inability to add automation or restructure processes without lengthy bureaucratic union negotiations, are a boat anchor around GM, F, and C.
So unless the costs and rules in a union shop are corrected, the only logical way to be a successful, profitable US auto maker is to outsource the manufacturing to overseas locations that don't have those restrictions.
Paradoxically, the foreign manufacturers are building plants here. Because they don't have union agreements they can be flexible and have costs that still make it profitable to make cars here. So the US makes are exporting jobs and the foreign makes are adding jobs.
Wouldn't it make more sense just for GM and Chrysler to stay here and adopt the transplant's business model. I thought if GM and Chrysler declared bankruptcy, the UAW contracts were null and void. OK, we can play hardball. I'd tell the former UAW guys they could still still work for me, but they had to play by the same rules set forth for the transplants' workers. Anybody who is chronically absent, drunk, drugged, or a notorious slacker is terminated.
Not necessarily and not if they want to come out of bankruptcy quickly. If the union and the VEBA fight the reorganization tooth and nail, it could drag things out a long time (like Delco). They'd lose their jobs but the company may not survive. So Chrysler tried to work out agreements with labor (and as many suppliers and creditors) as possible before filing so they could go to the judge and say we have a plan.
I would think that makes the judge more likely to hammer on the bondholders and other creditors who didn't sign off on the pre-bankruptcy planning, and more agreeable to signing off on the labor agreement with the UAW.
Wouldn't it make more sense just for GM and Chrysler to stay here and adopt the transplant's business model. I thought if GM and Chrysler declared bankruptcy, the UAW contracts were null and void. OK, we can play hardball. I'd tell the former UAW guys they could still still work for me, but they had to play by the same rules set forth for the transplants' workers. Anybody who is chronically absent, drunk, drugged, or a notorious slacker is terminated.
Totally agree. Just not sure that the unions are ever going to be smart enough to go for it. They can't cost way more and be way less productive than their counterparts. No company can compete with that situation.
I thought if GM and Chrysler declared bankruptcy, the UAW contracts were null and void.
I don't think it works quite like that. Delphi filed for C11 in 2005 and are still buried in the UAW contract. I think the only way is offshore. They could move to a RTW state. Chances are they would end up like Saturn. I don't see anyway out for GM or C staying in the USA or Canada. Obama's new regulations will kill the only vehicles that the Domestics make money on. I look for him to give all the out of work UAW people a cushy job in ACORN. Make it a government agency so they have a gold plated retirement.
I wish it were that easy. You would get my vote to run the Unions...but I fear yuor very correct methodology will not be implemented anytime soon. :sick:
Looks like were in for a few years of washing out the garbage...
"Paradoxically, the foreign manufacturers are building plants here. Because they don't have union agreements they can be flexible and have costs that still make it profitable to make cars here."...from what we have seen, it can highly profitable to make cars here, as the imports seem to do just that...anyone with a brain can see the only difference is UAW restrictive labor rules, which simply add jobs (and crushing overhead) where none should exist...
To repeat, Honda plants and GM plants that make the same amount of cars, Honda does with 2000 workers, GM "needs" 6000 UAW workers...4000 additional UAW workers, most of them drunk, incapable, illiterate, bad attitude, welfare mindset, or simply worthless can create a great deal of overhead...plus the worthless UAW workers simply do not make the quality product that Honda can make (lemko's cars excepted), so warranty cost skyrockets and simply quality control is absent, so the UAW carr are probably held together with duct tape, as opposed to Hondas bolted and welded together...
Did I ever mention about $35/hour floorsweepers in UAW plants???...talk about overpaid and how much more unskilled can one get???...
"..... Obama's new regulations will kill the only vehicles that the Domestics make money on. "
That's not necessarily so, Gary.
Right now, GM has the ecotec engine that they build and use here now. They also have DI versions that are ready to go in vehicles like the 2010 Equinox. At 2.4L, it puts out 182 hp, using the same displacement as the Malibu engine,which is 164 hp. Using the DI version, or maybe a normally asperated version of the 2.0L, could keep the hp in the 165-185 range, and therefore boost fuel economy say 10%. That would give the Malibu w/ the 6 sp auto a 37 mpg rating on the highway right now, w/ little to no investment. the 2.0L engine from the Cobalt SS would go nicely into the Camaro as a base engine, offering a still spirited acceleration with a boost in FE.
All that, available right now. This could allow them the flexibility to bring over their european diesels as they would be able to clean them up or purchase a urea injection system from Daimler.
Rumor has it that the Equinox will get a rating of 22/32. That will go a long way to helping the truck side of things. Not to mention, they have that 4.5L Duramax on the shelf ready to go.
That's an absolute insult. That would be like saying most attorneys show up in court drunk or on drugs.
I toured the Moraine plant couple winters back. There were no people who looked hung over or drunk on the production line.
Some of the efficiency in the number of workers to produce a particular car may be a factor of the design of the plant. GM has older plants that aren't as amenable to efficient layouts as a new plant built-to-suit.
However, some of that number comes from the UAW's reluctance to allow efficiency measures to be undertaken. We can parallel that to attorneys not wanting things in the legal system to be doable by the public. They want them to require the use of an attorney. The UAW was reluctant to give up what was needed to avoid driving the companies out of their jobs.
>opposed to Hondas bolted and welded together... How do you explain Hondas having rear brakes that wear out very early?
Is an American company that builds in America, has union labor, fought off the Japanese competion, is a world leader, is not bankrupt, and is hiring. Oh, they've just introduced an electric vehicle too... http://www.cat.com/D7E?WT.mc_id=catcom_homefeature_D7E_Microsite
So what's the difference between them and GM? When the Japanese tidal wave hit them back in the 80's, they stood up to the strikes from their unions and got the company back on track. No government loans either. You can look it up.
So - it didn't have to work out the way it did for GM.
They also have DI versions that are ready to go in vehicles like the 2010 Equinox. At 2.4L, it puts out 182 hp, using the same displacement as the Malibu engine,which is 164 hp.
Someone posted the Equinox engine is being built in China. The DI 2.4L was developed by Opel with German engineers. Not sure if they will be built here by UAW workers. We shall see.
Shelving the 4.5 Duramax was probably a smart move. It was way overkill for a 1/2 ton PU truck. A 3.0L V6 diesel is plenty of power with most that size putting out over 400 ft lbs of torque.
Cat is a company that keeps their focus. They do not let the UAW bully them. The UAW tried for years to do to Cat what they have done to the D3, bankrupt them. Then the whiners would claim they were mistreated by Caterpillar. If someone is not happy at a company I own, I would show them the door. One unhappy employee spreads his sickness to others. Caterpillar could have tried to decertify the UAW and did not. Those UAW workers are lucky that Cat was so generous.
Shelving the 4.5 Duramax was probably a smart move. It was way overkill for a 1/2 ton PU truck. A 3.0L V6 diesel is plenty of power with most that size putting out over 400 ft lbs of torque.
One thing that always bugged me - how come GM has so many names designed to try and convince you of the quality or macho-ness of their products? Things like "ecotec" (must be green and high technology), "duramax" (must be durable), cars with the name "fire" in them (must be macho, flame-breathing - Firebird, Firenza, Fiero? Then they appeal to patriots - "apple pie and Chevrolet". So much hype! Kind of like a cheap used car lot that is trying too hard "Bill's Quality Motors", "Honest Car Sales".
If the management had focused on plant automation, standing up to some sense when it comes to the UAW, designing enough quality into the products - the products would sell themselves and they wouldn't need to name everything with hype names to make up for the deficiencies.
Hopefully with a neutered UAW and new management, the New GM will abandon all that cr@p and change focus.
However by the time these better engines hit the market competitors usually have produced even better ones. Serving US market with already available engines and technology won't do GM any good to fend off those foreign products, they need to come up with "new" and "best", or at least come up with "new", "on par", and "cheaper". Neither is likely to become reality anytime soon...
As for Equinox, it'll have to enter a massive battlefield against many, many more established players. Goodluck with that, I've seen the car and it looks ok, but still needs refinement (I admit the interior is pretty nice looking though).
UAW workers simply do not make the quality product that Honda can make (lemko's cars excepted),
GM has my cars specially built in a top secret shop in Detroit 300 feet underground by Old World craftsmen being guided by the spirits of Charles Kettering, Zora Arkus Duntov, William Knudsen, Alfred Sloan, and Harley Earl. Then the Pope flies in from the Vatican and blesses each one.
The majority of what attorneys do could probably be replaced by a software application. Of course, I don't want my PC defending me in court on a murder charge.
As for Equinox, it'll have to enter a massive battlefield against many, many more established players.
The Equinox has a terrible reputation to overcome also. I rented one for two weeks last year in Hawaii. It was a pathetic POC. I usually rent the Trail Blazer. They screwed up and did not have one when I arrived. They did give a big discount to take the Equinox. Never again. I will go to another rental agency. I wanted to rent the Escalade. They have several and are always rented.
If the UAW assembled the Equinox I would not be bragging about it. Brand new they are noisy rattle traps. It is ranked 19th out of the 26 total mini SUVs being sold. Reliability kills their score.
That's an absolute insult. That would be like saying most attorneys show up in court drunk or on drugs."
imidaz, I do that to get at rocky's goat...it works EVERY time... ...now let's just keep this a secret between you and me, so no one else will read this post...sshhhhhh!!
The same reason I keep harping on $35/hour floorsweepers...it drives him nuts!!!
Just between us, OK?????????????????????????????????????????????????
DETROIT – The United Auto Workers union has reached a tentative deal with the government and General Motors Corp. that offers to cut labor costs and fund a union-run trust that will take over retiree health care costs next year.
The union announced the deal in a short statement issued Thursday that gave no details, which were withheld pending meetings with members to explain the terms.
The move is a key step toward GM's efforts to restructure outside of bankruptcy court. The company, which has received $15.4 billion in federal loans, faces a June 1 government-imposed deadline to restructure or be forced into bankruptcy protection.
Union members still have to vote on the deal, according to the statement. It makes no mention of factory closures or production of vehicles outside the U.S., items that the union has protested in Detroit and Washington as the deadline approaches.
GM plans to close 16 more factories, costing 21,000 hourly workers their jobs, as it tries to cut labor costs and shrink its manufacturing footprint to match lower demand for its products.
The Treasury Department, which has been overseeing GM's restructuring efforts, had no immediate comment.
GM has about 61,000 hourly workers in the U.S., but plans to take that number down to 40,000 by 2010.
I wonder if the UAW will ever agree to this, really they just say they almost reached an agreement, doesn't mean they'll really do it. :P
I found out I'm in the wrong freakin' line of work! I had to run out in the parking lot during lunch, and ran across some of the warehouse workers unloading their truck. We started talking about people retiring, years of service, stuff like that. Well, I found out that these guys can retire after 30 years, regardless of how old they are (used to be at least age 50, but they dropped that requirement) and their pension is about as much as their salary!
All I'm gonna get is $349.21 per month from my years with McDonnell-Douglas/Boeing, and I don't even get that until age 65! And it's NOT indexed to inflation! On top of that, it's all up to me...whatever's left of my 401k and any other saving I do myself, plus Social Security, if it's still around. :sick:
I guess the upshot is that I'm not loading and unloading a truck all day and doing other heavy, backbreaking labor. All I have to worry about is carpal tunnel and eye strain, and the occasional headache resulting from one of my cow-irkers over-doing it with the perfume.
"The union did not disclose any details of the agreement, but the deal is expected to be similar to previous pacts with Ford Motor (F, Fortune 500) and Chrysler LLC. The union would likely accept GM (GM, Fortune 500) stock rather than cash to cover future retiree health care costs at the company"
GM has my cars specially built in a top secret shop in Detroit 300 feet underground by Old World craftsmen being guided by the spirits of Charles Kettering, Zora Arkus Duntov, William Knudsen, Alfred Sloan, and Harley Earl. Then the Pope flies in from the Vatican and blesses each one.
Thanks for confirming that. I'd always suspected.
Now with a German pope if you get yet another new one it should handle better.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
One question for all of the very frequent posters on this forum, if you're posting while at work, do you actually have time to work? I see very familiar and frequent posters on this thread, and others, on Edumunds.com, and I think these folks must be retired. If not, I don't know how you do it when at work.
Great point, maybe they all received a little TARP money, or a govt grant..I am long retired, however the UAW subject has been beat to death..The UAW has no interest in running or managing anything, they just want the money, the benefits of capitalism which has kept them active.
The Chrysler and GM will be a mess and will again show that govt can only screw-up what they touch--Amtrak and the Post Office..Obama only business experience is an attorney for Acorn which sucks up our tax $$$$s, and provides paid protestors for liberal causes..It's a money laundering scam with the White House blessing..
My 09 Bullitt was delivered to my grandson in Detroit last week, and it was a great run from Venice FL..I-75 all the way and car was handed over with 6500 miles showing, and broken in with lots of care..Really not a long range cruiser, but it does fly low w/o any hestiation..100% happy with the product, and will get another Stang w/track package..Thirsty critter, however, it delivers much fun..80+ most of the way to the MotorCity..
Forget about the UAW for their glory days are done, the [non-permissible content removed] will rule the marketplace, and we will see our BIG3 fade away.. Sad ending, and I shall go to the grave without ever owning a [non-permissible content removed] car...Period..
Yup, figured this would go down to the final hour...they have no choice. Now, the end game will come from the bondholders on Tuesday. That's the deadline for now...
That explains the noisy rough running engine. Where did the vehicle get built. And How is a person to know for sure where the parts in his car came from. I finally found some garlic grown in the Garlic Capitol of the World, Gilroy California. All the supermarkets have garlic grown in CHINA. And it is NOT as good as CA grown garlic. Not even close.
Comments
If the UAW exists 5 years from now it will be to assemble parts from China and elsewhere. It will be like all that furniture from China that you assemble yourself. Get your latest car in a box. Screwdriver only tool required.
Not to move off-topic, but many consumers think all of Apple products are manufactured here in the USA. In fact, practically all of Apple's products are manufactured by Foxconn, the largest OEM electronics manufacturer in the world, and they're based in China.
Back to the UAW...
But tlong, you're missing the bigger problem here. Even when they have no protection their work still sucks, imagine what will happen when they get protection?
You can say union jobs are more important, but those living in RTW states will think differently.
How can you pull that move to force consumers to buy domestics when it's against the basic principles of our economy, free trade?
Hell, even if such tariff placing takes place, I'll just spend more and buy a better car instead of less for a crappy car.
And by my standards, the only domestics that pass the mark are Corvette, CTS, and Tahoe. Of all 3 I only have interest in the CTS's class, and that class is full of better contenders, namely G37, BMW 3, Audi A4, MB C350. Will I choose CTS because it's American? No thanks, I'll choose the better car, price tags be damned.
China and Japan are getting along pretty well these days, at least in the car biz. Chinese sales pretty much saved Honda's year (link). I thought I read that a Chinese built Honda or Toyota was going to be exported to Japan, but I can't find a link.
Meanwhile in Detroit:
"Disagreements over changes to the UAW's retiree health care trust and the union's unhappiness with General Motors Corp.'s plans to increase imports from various foreign countries are believed to be throwing a wrench into labor talks."
Union talks just keep getting tougher; expected deal not yet complete (Detroit Free Press)
As an aside, somebody mentioned IBM/Lenova several posts back. My company used to lease only IBM PC's, until that division was sold to a Chinese company - Lenova. Now all of our PC's have the HP logo on them. I'm sure they are still built/assembled in SE Asia, but at least it's by a US company.
Another aside - wifey works for the feds, and they give her a small laptop PC to use at home on days she's telecommuting. Guess what the brand is? Fujitsu!!! So even the US government, through its GAO schedule, buys lots of product from non-US entities.
My rant was tongue-in-cheek.
It's funny. In these forums the argument against buying say, a US made Honda CRV is that "the parts come from outside the US" and "it was designed in Japan, the profits go back to Japan". So by using that same argument, even if IBM is employing a lot of staff in India, the "planning and intellectual knowledge is from the US, and the profits flow back to the US". So there should be no problem.
Or, more topical, Chrysler and/or General Motors.
Fiat could move Chrysler HQ to Turino. Wouldn't that be grand?
Well technically it would be gran :P But anyway, I hear it's a pretty Elite place to live!
Or, more topical, Chrysler and/or General Motors.
The way I see it is that the UAW costs and restrictions have made it uneconomical to be a successful car manufacturer in the US. Not only the costs, but the work rules that segment the worker population into rigid job classifications, and the inability to add automation or restructure processes without lengthy bureaucratic union negotiations, are a boat anchor around GM, F, and C.
So unless the costs and rules in a union shop are corrected, the only logical way to be a successful, profitable US auto maker is to outsource the manufacturing to overseas locations that don't have those restrictions.
Paradoxically, the foreign manufacturers are building plants here. Because they don't have union agreements they can be flexible and have costs that still make it profitable to make cars here. So the US makes are exporting jobs and the foreign makes are adding jobs.
Not necessarily and not if they want to come out of bankruptcy quickly. If the union and the VEBA fight the reorganization tooth and nail, it could drag things out a long time (like Delco). They'd lose their jobs but the company may not survive. So Chrysler tried to work out agreements with labor (and as many suppliers and creditors) as possible before filing so they could go to the judge and say we have a plan.
I would think that makes the judge more likely to hammer on the bondholders and other creditors who didn't sign off on the pre-bankruptcy planning, and more agreeable to signing off on the labor agreement with the UAW.
Totally agree. Just not sure that the unions are ever going to be smart enough to go for it. They can't cost way more and be way less productive than their counterparts. No company can compete with that situation.
I don't think it works quite like that. Delphi filed for C11 in 2005 and are still buried in the UAW contract. I think the only way is offshore. They could move to a RTW state. Chances are they would end up like Saturn. I don't see anyway out for GM or C staying in the USA or Canada. Obama's new regulations will kill the only vehicles that the Domestics make money on. I look for him to give all the out of work UAW people a cushy job in ACORN. Make it a government agency so they have a gold plated retirement.
Looks like were in for a few years of washing out the garbage...
Regards,
OW
To repeat, Honda plants and GM plants that make the same amount of cars, Honda does with 2000 workers, GM "needs" 6000 UAW workers...4000 additional UAW workers, most of them drunk, incapable, illiterate, bad attitude, welfare mindset, or simply worthless can create a great deal of overhead...plus the worthless UAW workers simply do not make the quality product that Honda can make (lemko's cars excepted), so warranty cost skyrockets and simply quality control is absent, so the UAW carr are probably held together with duct tape, as opposed to Hondas bolted and welded together...
Did I ever mention about $35/hour floorsweepers in UAW plants???...talk about overpaid and how much more unskilled can one get???...
That's not necessarily so, Gary.
Right now, GM has the ecotec engine that they build and use here now. They also have DI versions that are ready to go in vehicles like the 2010 Equinox. At 2.4L, it puts out 182 hp, using the same displacement as the Malibu engine,which is 164 hp. Using the DI version, or maybe a normally asperated version of the 2.0L, could keep the hp in the 165-185 range, and therefore boost fuel economy say 10%. That would give the Malibu w/ the 6 sp auto a 37 mpg rating on the highway right now, w/ little to no investment. the 2.0L engine from the Cobalt SS would go nicely into the Camaro as a base engine, offering a still spirited acceleration with a boost in FE.
All that, available right now. This could allow them the flexibility to bring over their european diesels as they would be able to clean them up or purchase a urea injection system from Daimler.
Rumor has it that the Equinox will get a rating of 22/32. That will go a long way to helping the truck side of things. Not to mention, they have that 4.5L Duramax on the shelf ready to go.
That's an absolute insult. That would be like saying most attorneys show up in court drunk or on drugs.
I toured the Moraine plant couple winters back. There were no people who looked hung over or drunk on the production line.
Some of the efficiency in the number of workers to produce a particular car may be a factor of the design of the plant. GM has older plants that aren't as amenable to efficient layouts as a new plant built-to-suit.
However, some of that number comes from the UAW's reluctance to allow efficiency measures to be undertaken. We can parallel that to attorneys not wanting things in the legal system to be doable by the public. They want them to require the use of an attorney. The UAW was reluctant to give up what was needed to avoid driving the companies out of their jobs.
>opposed to Hondas bolted and welded together...
How do you explain Hondas having rear brakes that wear out very early?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
http://www.cat.com/D7E?WT.mc_id=catcom_homefeature_D7E_Microsite
So what's the difference between them and GM? When the Japanese tidal wave hit them back in the 80's, they stood up to the strikes from their unions and got the company back on track. No government loans either. You can look it up.
So - it didn't have to work out the way it did for GM.
Someone posted the Equinox engine is being built in China. The DI 2.4L was developed by Opel with German engineers. Not sure if they will be built here by UAW workers. We shall see.
Shelving the 4.5 Duramax was probably a smart move. It was way overkill for a 1/2 ton PU truck. A 3.0L V6 diesel is plenty of power with most that size putting out over 400 ft lbs of torque.
Now THATS a subject that could take us off topic.
One thing that always bugged me - how come GM has so many names designed to try and convince you of the quality or macho-ness of their products? Things like "ecotec" (must be green and high technology), "duramax" (must be durable), cars with the name "fire" in them (must be macho, flame-breathing - Firebird, Firenza, Fiero? Then they appeal to patriots - "apple pie and Chevrolet". So much hype! Kind of like a cheap used car lot that is trying too hard "Bill's Quality Motors", "Honest Car Sales".
If the management had focused on plant automation, standing up to some sense when it comes to the UAW, designing enough quality into the products - the products would sell themselves and they wouldn't need to name everything with hype names to make up for the deficiencies.
Hopefully with a neutered UAW and new management, the New GM will abandon all that
cr@p and change focus.
I've heard the same. Which raises concern IMO as German government seems like it's about to take Opel off from GM's hands.
In addition, the new Equinox is designed in S.Korea by Daewoo, under the name Daewoo Winstrom (Chevrolet Captiva elsewhere).
However by the time these better engines hit the market competitors usually have produced even better ones. Serving US market with already available engines and technology won't do GM any good to fend off those foreign products, they need to come up with "new" and "best", or at least come up with "new", "on par", and "cheaper". Neither is likely to become reality anytime soon...
As for Equinox, it'll have to enter a massive battlefield against many, many more established players. Goodluck with that, I've seen the car and it looks ok, but still needs refinement (I admit the interior is pretty nice looking though).
GM has my cars specially built in a top secret shop in Detroit 300 feet underground by Old World craftsmen being guided by the spirits of Charles Kettering, Zora Arkus Duntov, William Knudsen, Alfred Sloan, and Harley Earl. Then the Pope flies in from the Vatican and blesses each one.
The Equinox has a terrible reputation to overcome also. I rented one for two weeks last year in Hawaii. It was a pathetic POC. I usually rent the Trail Blazer. They screwed up and did not have one when I arrived. They did give a big discount to take the Equinox. Never again. I will go to another rental agency. I wanted to rent the Escalade. They have several and are always rented.
If the UAW assembled the Equinox I would not be bragging about it. Brand new they are noisy rattle traps. It is ranked 19th out of the 26 total mini SUVs being sold. Reliability kills their score.
That's an absolute insult. That would be like saying most attorneys show up in court drunk or on drugs."
imidaz, I do that to get at rocky's goat...it works EVERY time...
The same reason I keep harping on $35/hour floorsweepers...it drives him nuts!!!
Just between us, OK?????????????????????????????????????????????????
The union announced the deal in a short statement issued Thursday that gave no details, which were withheld pending meetings with members to explain the terms.
The move is a key step toward GM's efforts to restructure outside of bankruptcy court. The company, which has received $15.4 billion in federal loans, faces a June 1 government-imposed deadline to restructure or be forced into bankruptcy protection.
Union members still have to vote on the deal, according to the statement. It makes no mention of factory closures or production of vehicles outside the U.S., items that the union has protested in Detroit and Washington as the deadline approaches.
GM plans to close 16 more factories, costing 21,000 hourly workers their jobs, as it tries to cut labor costs and shrink its manufacturing footprint to match lower demand for its products.
The Treasury Department, which has been overseeing GM's restructuring efforts, had no immediate comment.
GM has about 61,000 hourly workers in the U.S., but plans to take that number down to 40,000 by 2010.
I wonder if the UAW will ever agree to this, really they just say they almost reached an agreement, doesn't mean they'll really do it. :P
Fair enough Lemko.... maybe they can't survive having UAW as their union either. Maybe they'll go out of business like GM.
By the way, if your Buicks are being hand-built by "Old-World laborers" they're imports! :P
All I'm gonna get is $349.21 per month from my years with McDonnell-Douglas/Boeing, and I don't even get that until age 65! And it's NOT indexed to inflation! On top of that, it's all up to me...whatever's left of my 401k and any other saving I do myself, plus Social Security, if it's still around. :sick:
I guess the upshot is that I'm not loading and unloading a truck all day and doing other heavy, backbreaking labor. All I have to worry about is carpal tunnel and eye strain, and the occasional headache resulting from one of my cow-irkers over-doing it with the perfume.
Oh - on your retirement - those guys make less per hour than you do....
So here's the question you have to answer for yourself when it comes to retirement:
Would you rather have a whole lot of not much, or not much of a whole lot?
UAW agrees to new GM deal (CNN)
"The union did not disclose any details of the agreement, but the deal is expected to be similar to previous pacts with Ford Motor (F, Fortune 500) and Chrysler LLC. The union would likely accept GM (GM, Fortune 500) stock rather than cash to cover future retiree health care costs at the company"
Thanks for confirming that. I'd always suspected.
Now with a German pope if you get yet another new one it should handle better.
The Chrysler and GM will be a mess and will again show that govt can only screw-up what they touch--Amtrak and the Post Office..Obama only business experience is an attorney for Acorn which sucks up our tax $$$$s, and provides paid protestors for liberal causes..It's a money laundering scam with the White House blessing..
My 09 Bullitt was delivered to my grandson in Detroit last week, and it was a great run from Venice FL..I-75 all the way and car was handed over with 6500 miles showing, and broken in with lots of care..Really not a long range cruiser, but it does fly low w/o any hestiation..100% happy with the product, and will get another Stang w/track package..Thirsty critter, however, it delivers much fun..80+ most of the way to the MotorCity..
Forget about the UAW for their glory days are done, the [non-permissible content removed] will rule the marketplace, and we will see our BIG3 fade away.. Sad ending, and I shall go to the grave without ever owning a [non-permissible content removed] car...Period..
Tick, tock...
GM's C11 Inevitable
Regards,
OW
That should be the current Equinox engine.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/21/detroit-preview-2010-chevrolet-equinox-debuts- -with-direct-injec/
The 2.0L DI turbo is built in Spring Hill Tn.
The 3.6, and therefore I assume the 3.0 is built in Ontario, Flint, Mexico, and Austrailia