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That's what some of the posters in the blogs at the bottom of the post pages I put up point out. The bias in the reportage shows in how they were so eager to find something tangible on the CTS while overlooking the warts some of the others have (which are cars fun to drive, e.g.). It's sort of like the media Palinizing Sarah in the last election the way they pounced on trivial things.
If the CTS were competing directly with a particular car of the list that are similar they would lose every time. But it's positioned slightly off the mark in re the demographics it's attractive for. But then people say (not you) that it doesn't have the xxx that the BMW XXXi has or it doesn't have the XXX tht the Lexus XXXiH has, et cetera.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I think the bragging people had done about the Camry and Accords and Civics and how wonderfully the foreign car makers were with their plastics..., gimme a break.
No, I don't particularly like the simpler (cheaper) plastics used in other cars--but an Accord costs a whole lot more than a Cobalt. So what's with the rubber net over half the arm rest in the door on the Accord. It felt awful.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
-Rocky
With the current style Accords I've sat in, they use a fabric over the top part of the armrest, that matches the seat fabric. I thought it was a nice touch, but question the long-term durability of it. I'd think a vinyl or soft-touch plastic would last longer, or even that cheap rubberized stuff like what GM used back in the 1970's and 80's.
Sadly though, that little fabric covering was the only soft-touch component on the Accord's door panel. The rest is just a big plastic slab. At least with a Camry or Altima, they saw fit to put cloth inserts in the door panels to dress them up a bit.
I think the '03-07 Accord was a lot nicer inside, though.
FWIW, GM interiors really don't bother me too much anymore. I used to hate the W-body interior, but with cars like the 2005 LaCrosse and 2006 Impala, I think they cleaned them up a lot. And the Lucerne's interior is a lot nicer than the old LeSabre or Park Ave. I thought the '04 Malibu was a big jump over the '97-03, but it needed to go further. However, the current Malibu and Aura are okay, IMO.
All of your rah-rah, added to rocky's "avoiding reality" rah-rah, can't change the fact that the Big 3 automakers have probably driven away so many buyers in the last 20 years, that if they all went to one carmaker, that carmaker would have claimed a $trillion in profits in the last 3 years...
They just don't get it...
BTW, if all their cars WERE like lemko's, Honda and Toyota would have withered and died on the vine years ago...
Sadly, if all the Big 3 could do was to fire the Friday/Monday drunks without 2 years of grievance hearings, that alone might have raised quality by 50%, just by having the unskilled SOBER folks make a car instead of the unskilled drunk and hung over...
The unskilled are already hampered by their inability to see things with any level of mediocre intelligence...now give 'em liquor, and they become blind pigs who just might accidentally trip over an acorn...they MIGHT actually bolt 2 things together properly, but the statistical odds of that happening are quite low...
Whe GM leaves the RenCen in Detroit, to set up HQ in a Motel 6, they should tear down the statue of Alfred Sloan and put up one of lemko...he has done more to support GM than Sloan ever did... :P
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
Drinking on the job and being drunk on the job are totally different issues:)
-Rocky
-Rocky
I don't know where you're going with this. Is this your way of defending the UAW? If so, it's not working.
It might well be true that the new Malibu is as good as the Accord. But even if you can convince me of that, does that mean that my next car will be a Malibu? Probably not, because I've been buying & driving Hondas since 1974. They've given me excellent service & they're easy to sell after I'm finished with them. So why should I switch now?
As good as the new Malibu may be, it's at least 25 years too late to the party. At this late stage of the game, you'll only get me into one if (1) it's a much better car than the Accord is or (2) I can get it for a lot less money. Since we know that the Malibu is, at best, roughly equal to the Accord, that leaves deep discounts as your only weapon.
But how can GM cut prices & still pay those idiotic legacy costs?
No I was just joking, I have no idea about German automakers. I did know a guy who worked in a tool and die shop at the GM stamping plant in Ontario, OH. He would brag about drinking and getting drunk on the job on a regular occasion back when I lived in OH in '99-'03. I wonder if he still has a job. He definitely shouldn't.
They can't, which is why they are less than one week from BK. You and I are going to be owners of this beached whale. :mad:
Maybe as they don't have asinine drinking age laws like we do here, they learn to hold their liquor better :shades:
buys German made machinery they have to remove the beer holders off of them.
-Rocky
He does...if he was charged with an infraction on the day you left in 2003, with grievances and appeals he could still be on the job, drunk like most of them, making cars with misaligned door panels...once you realize what is happening, and the curtain is pulled back from the Wizard, it all becomes quite clear and transparent...even for tool and die, which may not be UAW...
I finally realized why lemko's cars are so good...GM subcontracted the assembly out to the nearest Honda plant, and it was Honda workers who assembled lemko's GM products... :P
buys German made machinery they have to remove the beer holders off of them.
Now that is ironic. The German's were putting cup holders on their machinery before their cars. LOL
-Rocky
Specifically German cars. With many of our domestic cars, I need something to distract me from the horrible driving experience.
Look in the mirror, look at your family, and look at the people that surrounded you while growing up...THAT is where you will see the most mindless sheeple of all, for not ONE of them could think on their own without some UAW steward telling them what to do, how to think, and how to vote...
UAW and their ilk have to be the least independent thinking people ever, since no one could go to the bathroom unless their local told them to do so, and you call the rest of us sheeple???...your youth is showing, your credibility is lacking, and your insight has evaporated completely...
When the floorsweepers were UAW in the past, they were certainly overpaid for their "skill" level...that is my reference, even if that job is now contracted out (and about time)...
LOL!!! I gotta hand that hot potato back to you Bob because anyone that has the guts to strike against a corrupt and broken system called free market capitalism has my respect. A man that won't take a stand and cave in to the master are the real slaves of the elites. Union members support their country and are fighting the neocon globalist you protect and justify thir actions. This country would be a whole lot stronger if we built all our [non-permissible content removed] here and got rid of illegal aliens and H-1B visa's because we are losing our culture, language, and borders so a select few can get rich which makes me puke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:
Look in the mirror, look at your family, and look at the people that surrounded you while growing up...THAT is where you will see the most mindless sheeple of all, for not ONE of them could think on their own without some UAW steward telling them what to do, how to think, and how to vote...
Believe it or not I have a few UAW relatives that are right-wingers. While I disagree with them on policy we all agree our country was stronger when were weren't globalist. The mindless sheep of the south are persuaded by religion and what your preacher or cardinal of your church says. At least the UAW members can justify why they vote democrat because republicans have never implemented a positive policy for working class people. Look at the way the right-wing voted on the minimum wage issue, healthcare, trade policy, etc.
UAW and their ilk have to be the least independent thinking people ever, since no one could go to the bathroom unless their local told them to do so, and you call the rest of us sheeple???...your youth is showing, your credibility is lacking, and your insight has evaporated completely...
You are hilarious. The union workers at least have a right to a bathroom break. You think at the Kia plant they have to honor a bathroom break? You better wear depends. You need to remember I worked in several non-union shops thus I do KNOW the difference. You have no voice and if you say anything you are fired like what happened to me. Do you not think that isn't normal? I was fired from a previous job back in 1999' because our truck driver who worked there said he chocked the wheels and I was nearly killed when our truck moved forward and my hilo fell off the loading dock and I was caught in between our loading dock and the truck suspended in the air. He (coworker) lied out his [non-permissible content removed] and I blew up and said he was a liar because if he chocked the wheels it would of been impossible for the truck to move forward. This episode cost me my job as I was fired a few weeks later and replaced with the owners son. So don 't give me this B.S. on union members being mindless sheep vs. non-union. :mad:
When the floorsweepers were UAW in the past, they were certainly overpaid for their "skill" level...that is my reference, even if that job is now contracted out (and about time)...
I will agree they might of been overpaid. Isn't a CEO running a company into the ground overpaid? I would rather have a bunch of overpaid bluecollar workers in this country buying goods and paying taxes keeping the wheels on the economy turning that just a top few percent hawging all the profit. If we all made more money we would have the disposable income to pay more for the product. Sure we might have to keep it a little longer but it would be better made than something from a 3rd world toilet who takes the money and uses it to build up there military and threatens our national security. Now we have the North Koreans, threatening us despite all the money and B.S. talks we have with them. :mad: If I was in charge I would mow North Korea into the ground. I would load up ever bomber we have and on my signal we would drop tens of thousands of bombs on them all at once or I would drop a Neutron Nuke on their asses and a week later tell the South Koreans to take them over. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
-Rocky
P.S. Got a job at the debt consolidation company today. Start Monday at 10:00 a.m. and watched my 3rd youngest brother Jimmy graduate about a hour ago.
When the pain is big enough they will all stay where they belong...the downturn in real estate has had a silver lining...some go back because there is no work for them...you know, rocky, the unskilled labor kind of work, just like the UAW and the subcontracted non-UAW floorsweepers...
What do you do for the debt consolidation agency???...you know what their next step is after debt consolidation doesn't work, don't you???...yep, the next step is that scuzzy, scummy, non-union, bankruptcy lawyer...ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ain't life grand??????????????????????
Continuing the countdown to GM bankruptcy...T-minus 4 days and counting...sanity is just around the corner, folks, just hang on until Monday...if lucky, sooner than that...I can't help but be proud at the thought of GM reorganizing into a lean, mean, automaking machine, dumping all those unneeded brands, and making itself into a world leader again...not in volume, which is meaningless, but hopefully in quality...if they can dump the UAW, that goal is in sight and readily achievable...if they keep the UAW, they will be in Ch 7 liquidation in 3 years or less, because nothing will change and the workers will continue to drive the company into the ground...
Nobody buys a car simply because the company makes the most, what they want is build quality...let GM build great cars and be about the size of "Ford of years gone by", which, I believe, was about 18-22% of the market...
The death of the UAW will be the renaissance and phoenix rebirth of the auto industry...the continuation of the UAW will be the complete and total annihilation of the American auto industry...
John Barleycorn, and the UAW, must die for the good of the country and the good of the industry...
Well said, Bob............................:):):):):)
Best of luck, hope it works out for you.
:P You need to get certified here in MI. Bob
-Rocky
-Rocky
You mean like the Teacher's Union Pension fund in Indiana that had faith in GM so they invested in GM corporate bonds. Corporate bonds are a common investment with pension funds. If the truth be known how much of the GM pension fund is invested in corporate bonds. Wouldn't that be grand if they were declared worthless. Those that think all bondholders are just wall street crooks are clueless. I agree if it is part of an offshore hedge fund to avoid taxes. Not all bondholdings are in hedge funds. I would expect both the GM and C bankruptcies to end up in the Supreme Court on violations of the 5th amendment by the Obama auto group.
IMHO, the bondholders just want what is due them under the bankruptcy laws of the US.
This is from the SEC website:
Bankruptcy
Under Chapter 7, the company stops all operations and goes completely out of business. A trustee is appointed to "liquidate" (sell) the company's assets and the money is used to pay off the debt, which may include debts to creditors and investors.
The investors who take the least risk are paid first. For example, secured creditors take less risk because the credit that they extend is usually backed by collateral, such as a mortgage or other assets of the company. They know they will get paid first if the company declares bankruptcy.
Bondholders have a greater potential for recovering their losses than stockholders, because bonds represent the debt of the company and the company has agreed to pay bondholders interest and to return their principal. Stockholders own the company, and take greater risk. They could make more money if the company does well, but they could lose money if the company does poorly. The owners are last in line to be repaid if the company fails. Bankruptcy laws determine the order of payment.
Funny thing - there's nothing there about UAW members or other workers having any claim at all on the assets of the company.
Come on Rock, comparing an investment in corporate bonds to a roulette table is ridiculous. Granted GM bonds have been risky for a long time, but as a bond holder, you expect to get paid back or at least get some protection in bankruptcy court. Not every bond holder is wealthy. Like Gagrice mentioned, where do you think most insurance companies, pension funds, and 401k bond funds etc. invest their money? Certainly lots of middle class people have money one way or another invested in various corporate bonds (granted I'd be furious if they were invested in a loser company like GM) Looks like more socialism for the UAW to me as they are the one's really getting bailed out.
There will be. After the new Supreme Court is able to have empathy with the "workers" that clause will be added by the BO: "Any group able to vote for me in the next elections will be granted special favors."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
While I agree that picking on CTS alone is unfair, I'm afraid it does lose in almost every category vs. competitors. I give it credit for being the roomiest in class, but otherwise it wins in no other category.....
It's already on par with the class to be considered global class car, but doesn't necessarily mean it's a winner.
You've just made my point. People want to compare it to what is a perfect car in each subcategory in their own mind; the CTS will never win their approbation in that competition. But it does give a car, for other people with open minds, with good qualities for those wanting a car that's not quite the exact car that is the archwinner in that person's own mind.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Ugh, yes I do....... :sick: and it's sad to say that only Lincoln and Chrysler still have this kind of problem apart from Cadillac............... MB used to have the same problem, but from what I see it's fixed.
Yes, that is one of the few things I agree with Rocky on. He is definitely in the minority in his party. As Obama plans to make them all voting citizens by the time the next election rolls around. That should just about double the unemployment figures for the USA. When the UAW refuses to work for a realistic wage, he can hire 50,000 of his new La Raza citizens to build cars for GM. They will have protection in the Supreme Court with the new La Raza Justice Sotomayor.
BO knows the UAW members will still vote for him because they are inbred that way. Rocky, better get out of Grand Rapids before it becomes Baja North. :shades:
The political payoff aspect is peanuts compared to whole host of possible consequences in economy. Why would anybody invest in this kind of environment where political favors trumping law becomes government policy? They probably will, but they demand much higher returns, as risks are greater, so money has to work faster. That's 3rd World economy and moves like this one are pushing us closer and closer.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Obama made a speech in 2001 whereby he talked about redistribution. Perhaps it has started with some of his stimulus programs parts and his actions with GM and Chrysler.
In the interest of transparency (remember that from the campaign) Obama DIDN'T mention when closing Chrysler dealers that it was on the basis of Republican/Democrat:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Furor-grows- -over-partisan-car-dealer-closings-46261447.html
Did his redistribution mean from Republican to Democrat as well as to UAW?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Routine maintenance can be done by any mechanic or owner, according to my dealer. All the dealer needs, in case of a failure under warranty, is "Proof" that the service was performed according to the owners manual. . Receipts and so forth.
Of course warranty repairs should be done by the dealer.
Kip
srs: You were quoting info about Chapter 7, which, on a corporate level is liquidation...I assume that GM will file Chapter 11, which is reorganization, usually dumping most debts and voiding most contracts...
If you expect the UAW to work for the good of the company, you may need to re-evaluate your position...they are simply too stupid to realize they are the problem, and they sure as I am breathing NEVER be part of the solution...
Nice try, though...
But, if GM can't reorg under C11 (because of the bondholders, at least according to GM), than doesn't that just leave C7?
BTW, where would bondholders stand in a chapter 11 reorg? I mean, isn't that what GM claims is holding things up - that the bondholders want more than 10 cents on their dollar?
I wonder how much of the $4 million original estimate was due to the use of "prevailing union wages", something our UAW supporters would probably be in favor of.
(See Steve, how I managed to work UAW into the post
-Rocky
-Rocky