By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Take the federal judge firings, for example. That was analyzed over and over with pictures about how unfair that was in the nightly newscasts. Over and over.
Did the previous administration close dealers on basis of politics of owners?
If it weren't for Drudge report, I wouldn't have heard about the ChicagoLand politics in the Chrysler closings. Awful. Is it mentioned in any of the blogs on Edmunds?
And GM may be on faster track since bondholders have agreed to slightly higher cut of deal.
link title
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Not to be left out after all that campaigning and money for the Pres...
No cars in China; UAW: GM will make
subcompacts in U.S.
link title
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Kinda like buying a GM or Chrysler car...very risky indeed!
Regards,
OW
Now they have a contender. Same as the Malibu. Not perfect but at least these are worthy of consideration.
As far as the competition, their job has been completed. In retrospect, the new GM will need to follow these 2 car's lead and rebuild their reliability reputation and high levels of service. Excluding these two, as I've mentioned before, second rate on all counts.
I leave the 'Vette out of this because it is the ONLY example of a storied GM company that has evolved into a world class example of what can be accomplished with a great brand and the consistent development and support. To me, it's what they did right.
Regards,
OW
-Rocky
-Rocky
BTW, where would bondholders stand in a chapter 11 reorg? I mean, isn't that what GM claims is holding things up - that the bondholders want more than 10 cents on their dollar?"
I am just enough familiar with Ch 11 to know the basics, but I do not do them (boy are those fees fantastic!!!) but not the intimate details...
I believe a judge does have to approve what they want to do, so certain parties may get more "protection" than others...
In a corporate Ch 7, it is liquidation...the trustee sells off everything they can find, and use a portion to pay the creditors a few cents on the dollar...then the company fades into oblivion, as it no longer exists...
I doubt GM will go Ch 7, as they can be a viable company by dumping Saturn, Hummer, Pontiac, Saab, Buick, and a few other things...
They will REALLY be viable if they can use the 11 to void the UAW contract, walk away from the pension and health care plans, and start with about a dollar in legacy costs...unlikely, but would be nice...
I do not know the official status of bondholders in bankruptcy...
We are treating GM better than the European Banks. Are we crazy?
If Americans buy their cars, there is a chance the stock will go up and the taxpayers will get their money back. What a sick plan.
Yes.
Funny, the UAW is screaming about how Obama screwed them. Others are screaming about how Obama is treating them so well. I believe more the latter. Which shows you how out of touch the UAW is and how hopeless GM is.
I figure the new GM has only a 50% chance of long term survival even AFTER restructuring. Me, I'm never going to buy a vehicle from a company that has picked my pockets that deeply.
And Rocky (we wish you the best!) thinks Wagoner was a great CEO. Wagoner is relaxing with tens of $millions while the employees under his watch are losing their jobs left and right and the American taxpayer is having their pockets picked. Tell me why he deserved all that money so so many could lose their jobs and their retirement money.
Well I'm going to hit the hay here in a few thus ya'll have a gooden!!!
-Rocky
One advantage the foreign companies using US grunts to assemble their imports is they didn't have pensions and healthcare legacy to cover in their costs. If GM can start over at that same point, the cars should be even better than they had gotten a few up to viewed in the jaundiced eyes of critics. But I believe the secret meeting in Florida with Bro. Joe Biden and the UAW had lots of campaign promises (2012) and the UAW will be taken care of at the expense of the US population.
Isn't anyone interested in the point that C dealers were closed, oddly, on the basis of political contributions in the past and on the basis of association with the Democrat part to be kept open and others around them closed?
link title
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The increase in gasoline prices by speculators and oil companies while large suppliers of oil and products are stored won't help the economy once again. I thought this administration understood the economy (campaign statement) and was controlling those greedy Wall Street types. I'm expecting a double dip now in this economic downturn due to the rapid return of the greedy ones.
Keeping the greedy UAW active in C and GM on the part of the administration is going to eventually close GM in this country.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Well get the key ready. Obama Motors is on the move. Just a couple of more kinks to iron out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vybiJXEd_t0
Kip
It is going to get worse. Obama finally admitted we can't sustain this debt. Saw on Fox News night before last, that one of the Democratic congressmen has proposed a "Value Added Tax" (VAT). He is proposing 20-25%.
The Vat would be added to every item bought at the retail level. It won't show up on the sales receipt like sales tax does. (That would really piss people off.) It would simply be added to and hidden in the price of the merchandise, as it is with gasoline. . An item that cost $10 today would jump to $12.50. A $30K car would jump to $37,500. The consumer would blame the manufacturers for the price increases.
Sadder yet is that those taxes would not really do anything for the national debt. It would just give the politicians more money to waste on bigger government.
Inflation would go rampant and even the UAW wages would not be enough.
Of course Obama could add or adjust the VAT to selected items and not to others. For instance, Add it to Fords, Chrysler and imports, but not to Obama Motors cars. That should "LEVEL the Playing Field". :sick:
Kip
I've read and heard a lot about the VAT lately, what a bunch of BS. I guess it's still in the developement stages, but I guess the Dems are trying to figure a way to only apply the VAT to those making over $200k.
Also, I've heard the Dems are also looking at taxing health insurance premiums from company sponsored health plans. Didn't the Dems blast McCain for proposing the same thing?
Sounds like another black-helicopters-with-hushed-rotor-blades theory to me
According to the article Buchanan owns a total of 23 dealerships in Florida and North Carolina., and he's crying foul that ONE of his stealerships is being closed? That really doesn't make sense.
Do you have a link for that?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I am and have posted several bits of information on the subject on the closing dealership thread. Of course I was laughed at because Obama would never do anything underhanded. It is not in his Chicago political makeup to do that. :sick:
I find it interesting how people worry so much about the fat cat UAW workers losing their over paid jobs, while the poor guy delivering parts for a dealership is insignificant. I think someone losing a job at the bottom of the food chain has to be tougher than someone that has made millions over their career and should have a sizable stash to fall back on. If a UAW worker with 30 years under his belt has not save at least $200k for a rainy day. Shame on him. It is evidence why you do not give that much money to an uneducated, unskilled worker. The high percentage of bankruptcies in the UAW ranks is further proof they are not capable of handling that much money. They are just contributing to the debt problem in this country. Leeches on the system and no better than the leeches at the top, like Wagoner.
Greedy leeches have destroyed GM and Chrysler, not capitalism.
The current GM subcompacts are all made in Korea, and to move the production plant from Korea to US means killing Daewoo in the process. That'll only cause GM to lose even more money, especially since most Koreans are very reluctant to buy a car that's not domestically built....
Pretty soon the Wal~Mart manager cuts your hours. You can't afford that crappy apartment any more. The landlord kicks your deadbeat butt out and tosses your stuff into the dumpster. You'd sleep in your car if you still had it, but the repo men towed it away from the driveway of the beautiful suburban McMansion you once lived in five years ago. You spend a few weeks couch surfing with friends and family who are only one Wal~Mart paycheck away from your situation. After a while, they get sick of you and you're on the street.
Now you're forced down to the level of a homeless person. You have skills, you have a degree, you have work experience, but nobody gives a darn because they just see a filthy, smelly derelict. That, and you're over forty. Who needs some old geezer like you when we can get a young pimply-faced teenager to do the job for less? You become bitter and desperate! You steal a gun and commit an armed robbery. You're caught and sent to prison. Oh but don't worry. You'll have a job in the prison-industrial complex making office furniture for pennies a hour. NOW your wage level is competitive with those pesky Chinese!
VIVA THE GLOBAL ECONOMY!!!
What about American brand cars made in Mexico or Canada? Don't have to wait for Chinese. :P
GM will no doubt ramp up Chinese production and exports to US later to bypass UAW.
No. Not yet. But, might be with the extravagent spending of our new President. Will ultimately get down to rest of world standards if he and our Congress give us a government national health plan. Of course, he will continue to take care of whatever amount of UAW buddies remaining no matter what.
That's the truth. My FIL saved that much by 1999 while working 30 years for the steel mills and also put 3 kids through college along with his wife and he didn't make nearly what UAW workers made back then. When many of his LTV co-workers were still up to their eyeballs in debt, many supporting their kids and grand kids (because they didn't care if they finished high school let alone college) he was able to retire on his PBGC pension (his house was and is paid for) and my MIL now has a good job due to her getting a Bachelor's degree in her early 40's. Many of his mill buddies ended up having to keep working while other's ended up filing bankruptcy because they never believed LTV would actually go chapter 7.
Prisoners in CA have better benefits than most of the rest of US. Prisoners in Alaska were building really nice wood stoves in the metal shop, until some do-gooder in the ACLU decided it was slave labor. Sad part is these people were learning a skill that could be used on the outside. It is not the globalist that are bringing the countries standard of living down. It is the socialist/environmentalists that are running all our manufacturing jobs out of the country. Plus unrealistic wages paid to Union workers like the UAW.
It is all about personal responsibility. Something the Unions play down. They would have you believe you are better off in a collective society. Well we now know that does not work.
The only thing that may save him is how screwed up the Republican party is right now. Man, this is really scary and disheartening.
Unless you mean that Gettelfinger is running for the Senate or something on the UAW ticket....
Uh, yeah, sure, and what are the odds of that happening?
Gettelfinger has to do something since he's retiring soon:
"Even as a lame-duck president, United Auto Workers union leader Ron Gettelfinger is showing surprising strength amid the greatest-ever dismantling of union power and benefits.
The historic choice for the union had been between gold and silver. Now it's between silver and lead. He's very concerned about maintaining reasonable wages and benefits and so far, amazingly, he's been able to do that."
Key Players in the Overhaul of General Motors: UAW President Ron Gettelfinger (WSJ)
Florida Rep. Vern Buchanan learned from a House colleague that his Venice, Florida, dealership is on the hit list. Buchanan also has a Nissan franchise paired with the Chrysler facility in Venice.
"It's an outrage. It's not about me. I'm going to be fine," said Buchanan, the dealership's majority owner. "You're talking over 100,000 jobs. We're supposed to be in the business of creating jobs, not killing jobs," Buchanan told News 10, a local Florida television station.
Buchanan, who succeeded former Rep. Katharine Harris in 2006, reportedly learned of his dealership's termination from Rep.Candace Miller, R-MI. Buchanan owns a total of 23 dealerships in Florida and North Carolina.
Why would they not want to buy something not built by their manufacturers.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'm not even sure that closing dealerships will reduce costs to C.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I don't think Americans are a bunch of self-haters, I just think that we want value for our paid new-car dollar. GM basically has been ignoring the new car market for 40 years. They've expected us to buy boats like yours or SUV's or pickups. Not everyone wants those types of rigs.
My '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS is packed with value, not incredibly cheap for price, but what I paid for is well worth every penny.
You can't do this with a GM vehicle. It's not worth the same.
GM will be propped up and survive, but some jobs are going to have to go. They'll make it, though being forced to make it. Maybe that's not so bad though.
The new Chev 'Bu isn't a bad rig. The Volt is overpriced. It's going to be interesting to see how many Chev sells of them at that price. And if they'll hold up to driving every day, in the long run that is. Long-term reliability.
The UAW will stay in it, they own a chunk. That will also be interesting to watch and see what happens with that.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Check Samsung S5 (aka Nissan Teana built in Korea under a Korean name).
Too bad we didn't require the same teaming system when foreign makers entered our markets long ago. China does that today.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
1 good Buick = 10 problem Chevy/Pontiac/GMC
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
And in Korea?
They are reacting to import tarriffs on foreign cars. Remember those things you accused Japan of having? Japan hasn't had them for decades. But Korea had them with the U.S. until last June, and still has them with the EU. Yup Tarrifs. By the way, the U.S. had them on Korean cars (2.5%) and get ready for Korean trucks the 25% import tarrif on truck was just ended last summer.
The EU is demanding that Korea match reductions on beef and car-import tariffs that it granted the U.S. in June.
In particular, Brussels wants Seoul to cut regulations for European carmakers by applying international standards instead of different domestic rules.
"Regarding the issue, the EU has made a fresh offer. We are reviewing the EU's proposal," Kim said.
Korea held out for an improvement in Europe's offer to eliminate a 10 percent tariff on imported autos within seven years.
Korea sold 74,000 autos worth $9.1 billion in Europe last year while buying only 15,000 vehicles worth $1.6 billion.
The country's tariff rate on cars is 8 percent, compared to 10 percent for the EU.
In its trade deal with the U.S., the world's largest economy, Seoul agreed to remove an 8 percent import duty on cars. In return, the U.S. agreed to remove a 2.5 percent duty on Korean car imports and a 25 percent duty on truck imports.
http://www.korea.net/News/issues/issueDetailView.asp?board_no=18161&menu_code=A
While there may be some truth in that, Steve Jobs was willing to take $1/year, voluntarily, when Apple was doing poorly. He knew his responsibility and took it seriously. Even a year ago Wagoner was sucking down $10M+/year and crowing about how well GM was doing and how good their plans were. Except that GM was just a house of cards like AIG and the rest of the crooked financial industry:
E85 - advertisement hype - cheap to implement and no real benefit to anybody
Hybrid hype - mild hybrids do nothing useful. Two-mode hybrid hype for a system with poor drivability and high cost.
Solstice/Sky hype - two failures, even though they are pretty
Volt hype - We've beat this one to death
VEBA hype - "we will pay into your healthcare fund" - except that GM had no money and no way of doing that
Wagoner - what a liar.
But seriously our politicians in both political party's are out of touch with reality.
No argument there!
If this new job is half as good as my boss says it is I should have a steady stream of customers and perhaps make a decent living once again. I
New job! Good luck! What is it?
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/gmuaw05282009.pdf
-Rocky
Just curious, is the company one of those that are truly a debt consolidation company or one of those scams that get people who are just bad at handling money to sign up for some bogus fees?
I have been working in the Credit Counseling/Debt Consolidation field for the past 10 years and so I consider myself a bit of an authority about this industry. I no longer work in this industry for several reasons, the main reason being that I HATE IT! I don't trust these companies because I've seen how they operate and it's not just you the potential client that they hurt--they also pray upon the needs of their employees.
http://www.smartcreditinfo.com/scams.html
You are right that many folks in the auto industry will need help getting used to a streamlined lifestyle. Something UAW workers should have started doing 10 years ago when the domestics were losing jobs and market share at an alarming rate.
A mention was made in a news report that the concessions are "until GM is out of trouble" or something similar. In other words, as soon as the mess is over, the UAW starts preying again to ruin the new company.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Good luck Rock, I hope the company your working for truly helps those in debt trouble.