United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

1277278280282283406

Comments

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Yeah, and those German car owners have reduced their checkbooks, wallets, savings, and credit lines to laughable pittances trying to keep up with their tempermental Teutonic tanks. No, thanks! I'd rather keep my money, not worry about the bill collectors, and trying to impresse pretententious yuppies, (whom I hate with extreme prejudice) with a three-pointed star or blue and white roundel on my hood.

    When it comes to luxury cars, Cadillac was, is, and will always be The Standard of the World!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    SuperFly doesn't live in my 'hood!

    Here's my ride:

    image
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    ...and trying to impresse pretententious yuppies

    Wouldn't you agree that GM would be in vastly better shape today, with far more UAW members drawing paychecks, if Cadillac had figured out how to pull those "pretentious yuppies" into its showrooms?

    Don't forget that Cadillac was a huge marketing success & cash machine back in the 50s & 60s precisely because the badge chasers of the day craved it. So what went wrong? How did Caddy lose them?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Roger Smith had pretty much destroyed the Caddy image by 1985 with his rebadging. Why buy a Caddy when an Olds is the same vehicle for less money. None of which were very good looking. Add to that the failed attempt to compete with the Mercedes Diesel that was a HUGE success by then. Lexus pops onto the scene in 1989 and Cadillac has never recovered. They would be history if not for the Escalade that saved the brand from the fire. Buick is surviving with their best selling vehicle the Enclave. People don't want GM cars. Only their trucks and SUVs.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Anybody who was anybody in my neighborhood drove Cadillacs - and still do.

    That is true. As a kid in the big city, I remember that in my neighborhood that the undertakers always had Cadillac limos, hearses and flower cars.

    Seasoned citizens also like Cadillacs, many with padded tops.

    Does anybody have any stats on what percent of UAW members, active and retired, that drive Cadillacs.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,389
    Yeah, and those German car owners have reduced their checkbooks, wallets, savings, and credit lines to laughable pittances trying to keep up with their tempermental Teutonic tanks.

    Lets see... My 115,000 mile 3 Series track rat has averaged @$33/month to run(that includes three sets of track tires) since I bought it new in 1995. My wife's 2004 X3 has 78,000 miles and running costs have averaged $56/month since we bought it in 2005. If you want to compare debt/equity ratios or net worth just bring it on... ;)

    No, thanks! I'd rather keep my money, not worry about the bill collectors, and trying to impresse[sic] pretententious[sic] yuppies, (whom I hate with extreme prejudice) with a three-pointed star or blue and white roundel on my hood.

    Nice to know that you don't stereotype people. This is why I've driven BMWs for over 25 years:

    image

    UAW content: I often get dirty looks(or the one-finger salute) from guys driving 'murrican pickups plastered with UAW stickers. It never fails to give me a warm feeling deep down inside... :P

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • cadillacmikecadillacmike Member Posts: 543
    Gotta agree with lemko here, except I prefer the RWD CTS & NorthStar STS.
    That and my 1968 DeVille Convertible ;)
    and My ElDorado custom convertible by coach builders (one of only about 70 made): :D

    Poor reliability: not on your life

    Current cars:

    Lets see DeVille convertible - engine and drive trained needed overhaul at 150,000 miles but I'm not the original owner of this 41 year old beauty.

    1995 Fleetwood, 195,000 miles with no internal engne or transmission work ever needed. lost it in an accident - otherwise it would be over 200,000 miles and still looking and running like new. I'm going to get another when i get home!

    2000 El Dorado coach builders hard boot convertible. more trouble with the top than the whole rest of the car put together, needed crank position sensors replaced, but it didn't leave the car dead on the road. Still gets 30 MPG at 80 MPH at over 120,000 miles

    2005 CTS, nearing 100,000 miles with nothing other than routine servicing, brakes are a DREAM to service, less than $100 per axle with Ceramic pads, unlike the $3,000 for a BMW!!!

    Earlier cars:

    1992 LeSabre, 175,000 miles only time i was left dead on the road was when a fitting to the heater intake broke (I will admit that GMs use of a plastic fitting was stupid, the replacement part i bought from the dealer was metal). traded it in on the Fleetwood, and i saw it going down I-275 three years later!

    1987 Cavalier, contrary to the press bad rep, this car ran trouble free for 110,000 mles, gave it to my niece and she drove it for 2 more years, and this was in the NY NE snow country.

    Does GM make less than adequate cars, yes, the 1986 Fiero got traded in after only 75,000 miles, constant motor mount and AC problems.

    But by and large, my GMs have done very well by me.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    UAW content: I often get dirty looks(or the one-finger salute) from guys driving 'murrican pickups plastered with UAW stickers. It never fails to give me a warm feeling deep down inside... :P

    Nice.. What a classy bunch. NOT!
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,389
    David Brooks nails it.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • cadillacmikecadillacmike Member Posts: 543
    First thing that killed Cadillac, GM, and the whole US auto industry was the air pollution requirements which sucked the power out of the cars big time. This hit home really hard in 1971 and reached is peak in 1974, by which time it was trumped by the fuel ecomony panic (thanks to the arab oil embargo), these two items contributed to the near complete elimination of any driveability of most US cars. It wasn't until the late 80s when advanced electronic (computerized) fuel management and emissions management technologies appeared that the cars started getting more life breathed into them - literally. Since the asians and europeans alredy had smaller cars to start with the US was left far behind.

    Of course the UAW and its poor quality control practices at the US plants just worsened the US cars in the eyess of many, partucilay the (biased) press, profit and non-profit alike.

    I think the US caught up around the early to mid 90s but it was too late, and the press is still biased. and the american public contues to drink the kool-aid.

    Throw in a terrorist attack on NYC, and the current mess (across many spectrums) and here we are!
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Glad you to hear your happy with your list of GM cars, but to me, that is a list of car's I'd refuse to own, except for maybe the CTS, but with the current CTS, I wouldn't want an '05. I've driven enough of my grandpa's Buick's (Roadmaster and 2 Park Ave's) to know I never want to drive another, let alone, own one regardless of how reliable or not they are. I know the Park Ave's my grandpa had were far from reliable.

    My dad has got 200k trouble free miles out of his last two Ford's and he still ended up buying an '09 Accord EX-L v6. He's put 10k on it so far and he told me the other day he likes it so much, he doesn't know why he didn't buy a Honda sooner, other than his 40 year loyalty to Detroit that is obviously gone now.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,051
    Nice.. What a classy bunch. NOT!

    Watch it now! I occasionally drive one of them 'murrican pickups, and I don't flick anyone off, BMW or not, unless they cut me off or do something else inconsiderate. :P

    I don't have any UAW stickers on it, though. There used to be a Crimefighters sticker on it that my stepdad put on it years ago, before I had it, but that went away when I got a new bumper after a 2000 Infiniti I30-something or other decided it wanted to go under me.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    He nails it to the max.

    The end result is that G.M. will not become more like successful car companies. It will become less like them. The federal merger will not accelerate the company’s viability. It will impede it. We’ve seen this before, albeit in different context: An overconfident government throws itself into a dysfunctional culture it doesn’t really understand. The result is quagmire. The costs escalate. There is no exit strategy.

    I think GM could be Obama's Vietnam. Once in, it is hard to get out. $100B a year so Lemko can buy a new car every 5 years.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,389
    I was actually considering a G8 GT, but with Pontiac dead and Holden/Monaro up for sale I have grave concerns about long-term parts availability.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I think the US caught up around the early to mid 90s but it was too late, and the press is still biased. and the american public contues to drink the kool-aid.

    I disagree, I think they've mostly caught up by now (desirability is still questionable and the sales show that), but most of the domestic's I had in the 90's were pretty bad (small - midsize and I'm not talking reliability, but also desirability). I don't know how anyone would think a something like a mid 90's Lumina/Grand Prix/Grand Am/Alero is even in the same universe as mid 90's Maxima, Camry, or Accord. Same with a Cavalier/Sunfire vs. a Civic, Corolla, or Sentra. Even something like an early 00 Impala still sucked imo. My wife had an 01 and I can't think of one desirable thing about that car other than decent fuel economy. Just a completely unremarkable vehicle. Cheap inside and out. That's pretty much been my opinion of GM until the current CTS/Malibu/Aura came out. Those are first GM car's since something like a 87 Regal T-Type/GN that would even be close to earning my money.

    The few times my hard earned money went towards a purchase of a GM vehicle, I've immediately regretted it from ending up with a horrible ownership experience. That's why myself along with thousands of others have left GM probably for good.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,389
    Watch it now! I occasionally drive one of them 'murrican pickups, and I don't flick anyone off, BMW or not, unless they cut me off or do something else inconsiderate.

    Funny thing; I sometimes think that the Mazdaspeed generates more angry responses from the UAW crowd. Must be some subliminal "Remember Pearl Harbor" vibe going on or something...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Thank you, Mr. Obama! I sure appreciate the effort!
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I have known people with "I'll never buy a_____" from both sides of the WWII aisle. Used to work with one who thought nothing of buying Japanese but was adamant that German cars were not to be even considered. Meanwhile I knew a guy with a VW who wouldn't buy Japanese because of Pearl Harbor. Go figure.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Of course the UAW and its poor quality control practices at the US plants just worsened the US cars in the eyess of many, partucilay the (biased) press, profit and non-profit alike.

    I think the US caught up around the early to mid 90s but it was too late, and the press is still biased. and the american public contues to drink the kool-aid.


    So I'll bite. Which early to mid 90's cars do you think were caught up with the imports of the same day? :confuse: :P
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I don't flick off BMW drivers or anything like that either. I don't have ANY stickers on any of my rides. I was never a member of the UAW nor were/are any friends or family.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Well, if I look at it that way, I won't buy any German cars because the Wehrmacht or the Waffen SS almost killed my Grandpop in the Battle of the Bulge, and I won't buy any Japanese cars because the Japanese Imperial Navy was trying to kill my girlfriend's father and my Uncle Johnny. I guess South Korean cars are OK, because at least they were on our side.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    All you guys wanting to talk about your old Caddys and such should check out Memories Of The Old GM And Its Cars.

    This discussion is about the UAW. :)
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I think the US caught up around the early to mid 90s but it was too late, and the press is still biased. and the american public continues to drink the kool-aid.

    I think you are totally wrong. The only 2 products they made that were even with the rest of the world in quality was in 2008.

    I think the market share proves your wrong and based on the 6 points in the article, GM might never recover.

    Time will tell.

    Regards,
    OW
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,389
    2005 CTS, nearing 100,000 miles with nothing other than routine servicing, brakes are a DREAM to service, less than $100 per axle with Ceramic pads, unlike the $3,000 for a BMW!!!

    Just curious, but where did you get that number? At worst you might be talking @$1,000 at the dealer, and that's for OEM pads and rotors at all four wheels. I usually fit Axxis Deluxe pads on my street cars(@$90 F&R) and use Hawk HP Plus(@$171 F&R) on my two track rats. BMW rotors for my 3er run $55 each, F&R.
    If I do all four corners myself I'm out @ $310-$400.
    Works for me.
    Why not bring your CTS to a BMW CCA HPDE? I'd like to see how a newer Caddy would do. You'd have a blast.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • lls57lls57 Member Posts: 57
    The Pontiac Vibe is only about 15% of what NUMMI produces. I would think that Toyota would want to continue to make cars in Fremont, but would they deal with the UAW directly, instead of through NUMMI? Also, would GM be making money off the cars that Toyota produces at that plant, since it's a 50-50 joint venture?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Hmmm, I guess the joint venture is a separate entity but even so, I think Toyota has been dealing "directly" with the UAW in Fremont since the joint venture was started.

    My guess is that Toyota will continue to make cars at NUMMI since there's lots of capital on the ground there (both sunk dollar cost and political capital).

    Dunno about profit sharing - you sure ask hard questions. :D

    Here's Michelle Krebs' take on it - basically "ongoing discussions." Future of GM-Toyota NUMMI Plant Uncertain with GM Bankruptcy

    Oh, the fun thread about all the old GM cars everyone drove has been moved over to the Memories Of The Old GM discussion that I linked in post 14977.
  • chetjchetj Member Posts: 324
    i am 43 and even as a kid i didnt like [non-permissible content removed] or german cars cuz of WW2...i wouldnt buy now cuz i work at a supplier and want to support american mfg..and yes i know some asian cars are assembled here which is good
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Is your company a UAW shop? If not do you think the high wages and benefits that the UAW workers get has trickled down to You?
  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    Wow, that's a bit of a racist, or at the very least, nationalistic comment! It's almost been 70 years since the start of WWII. I guess you also boycott anything British because of the Revolutionary War, and also don't purchase anything made in China because of their very strong involvement in the Korean "Police Action" or Vietnam war. Since you're using a computer to post your message, you are using a Chinese made product whether you know it or not. It may be a Dell, HP, or some other brand (including all Macs), but it's made in China. I would certainly fear the Chinese much more, militarily and economically, than either Japan or Germany. It's nice to support American products where possible, but one also has to be rational too.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    >you're using a computer to post your message, you are using a Chinese made product ... It's nice to support American products where possible, but one also has to be rational too.

    My computer is made in Fletcher, Ohio, within 50 miles of me.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    My computer is made in Fletcher, Ohio, within 50 miles of me.

    Mine was put together in Orlando Florida.........by us geeks here. :)
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Most of the soldiers who actually fought in WWII are either dead or over 80. The vast majority of people now working in German or Japanese car factories weren't even alive when the war ended. How can you blame them?

    Buy a car because you like it - not because you want to make some kind of political statement.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    My computer is made in Fletcher, Ohio, within 50 miles of me.

    That's where it was assembled. I build my own computers, & I can assure you that most of the components came from Asia. It's possible that the CPU was made here (Intel has chip plants in the U.S.); if you bought a high-end gaming machine, the video card might have been made in Canada. Everything else in your machine came from Taiwan (case, motherboard), Malaysia (hard drive) or Korea (optical drive, although that might have come from China).
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I also build my own desktops. They are about as multicultural as you can get. As are ALL Vehicles whether built here or where ever. I think the top F150 is now less than 80% US and Canada made. Less than that is UAW built.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I'm 44 and I didn't like Japanese cars when I was a kid simply because they were ugly. Heck, they STILL are! I kind of liked the look of a Mercedes Benz, but didn't care much for any of the other German cars. I always loved the Cadillac as far back as I can remember. There were and still are the most beautiful cars on the road!

    My Grandpop was a WWII vet and as long as I knew him, he drove big Chevrolets. In fact, there's a picture from my parents' wedding album showing my mother in her wedding gown coming out of the back seat of my Grandpop's brand-new black 1964 Chevrolet Biscayne sedan as Grandpop holds the door open.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I always loved the Cadillac as far back as I can remember.

    I had a great time in my 48 Cadillac. It did use a 2.5 gallon can of Raylube to every tank of gas. She was a smoker for sure. What do you expect for $25 from the wrecking yard? Traded back to my boss for a banged up 53 Mercury two door hardtop. I painted it metallic green after hammering out the dents a little. It had some ripples down one side. At least it did not use a lot of oil. All built with pride by the UAW that was proud to build the cars we drive. I think they lost that in the late 1970s, when the D3 went into the toilet.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    You make it sound like you were there when they discovered the "wheel"...:):):)...which, by the way, was not a UAW invention...
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    I did a search for DeVilles locally for sale. 49 within 75 miles. '05s with 52k miles for $12k. One '02 was $8900 with 51k miles.

    An article today said the 'new' wave of green manufacturing jobs will pay $12 an hour. If take home $10 an hour, that is 5 weeks net pay to cover the sales and excise tax on a basic new car. Gotta love globalization and GW.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    As a businessman, I understand that business is business. As a human being I see a chasm between the haves and have-nots. If someone purchases a $150K house and can't make enough to pay for it, as well as the other household bills, there is something SERIOUSLY WRONG. In 1979, my father made a little over 32K in a manufacturing job without a college diploma. This was enough to just barely support a wife, three kids, a house and a car. The majority of manufacturing jobs are now gone and we now have a so-called "service economy" with an average yearly pay less than that of 30 years ago. This is just plain WRONG! As a country we are moving backwards to owing one's soul to the company store.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    In 1979, my father made a little over 32K in a manufacturing job without a college diploma.

    That was exceptionally high pay for a blue-collar job back then. My wife & I both worked full time at "professional" jobs that required 4-year college degrees; together, we earned less than $38K & considered ourselves to be well off.

    Most skilled blue-collar jobs paid in the mid to high teens in the late 1970s. Your father was earning close to twice that. He must have had friends in high places.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,051
    That was exceptionally high pay for a blue-collar job back then. My wife & I both worked full time at "professional" jobs that required 4-year college degrees; together, we earned less than $38K & considered ourselves to be well off.

    Yeah, I'll say. Adjusted for inflation, that's about $95-96K per year today! Heck, I'd take it!

    For comparison, my grandfather retired from the railroad in 1974, at the age of 60. He went out making $6.00 per hour. And he considered that to be decent money. They raised three kids, although Grandmom did work. And I think Granddad did pull a lot of overtime.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Yeah, in 1979 $32K is about what my mom made as a school administrator. That was good money. tow masters degrees to get it.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Maybe he meant to say that his dad earned 23K - a figure that would have been attainable in '79 if he had racked up a lot of OT.

    Trouble is, the economy was in lousy shape that year - Carter was President, after all - & that would have cut into the availability of OT. That spring & early summer, gasoline shortages that were partly caused by idiotic Federal regulations led to long lines at the pumps. Before the year was over, gas prices had doubled.

    I don't think that too many people would prefer 1979 to 2009. I'm certainly in better shape now than I was then.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Jimbres caught it, I meant $23K!

    Dad was doing pretty well around that time. I recall he bought a new red and white Ford Granada coupe in 1978 and we went on our first real vacation in six years.
  • pmomtvpmomtv Member Posts: 7
    Along the same lines - I was at a Honda/Cadillac dealership in SE Michigan last week. Thought it was interesting that the "all American" Cadillac CTS manufactured in Lansing, MI, had 70% domestic content while the so called "[non-permissible content removed]" car, Honda Accord, had 65% domestic content.

    Not much difference at all anymore.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Much better. Better than I was making at the time but I was in an entry level job. Figured if I could get to making in the mid $20s I'd have it made.....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Dad had been on the job for some time by 1979. He was also a foreman.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I figured that to be the case. That's why I wasn't saying "all those years of college for what?" I figure he earned where he got to.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    It's nice to support American products where possible, but one also has to be rational too.

    Let's look at what Gandhi did to free his own people. Against the orders of the British, he stood up to the false authorities. He marched his followers on to the famous march to the sea so that they could mine their own salt. He led them to harvest their own green tea, and then, to begin to spin their own clothes -rather than import these below market value, for which then tainted the currency and economy that drove wages below a living wage Hartmann, in radio broadcast, 2008 and in the Documentary Movie Gandhi.
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    a figure that would have been attainable in '79 if he had racked up a lot of OT.

    I recall back in 1975, as I was entering the workforce, toolmakers and jigbore operators earned $12 and hour. So therefore, they could certainly get 25K without OT. This is also non-union and Texas. The price of a good home was also about 25K and a camaro was 6K. Can you buy a home with a years wages today?

    I also recall the Nixon wage and price controls which anyone, with basic economics, knows will lead to surplus/shortage condition.

    I certainly can't recall any gas shortage during Carter.

    Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.