Me too. I'd rather support an honest non-complaining southerner who built my vehicle. Or a Mexican worker who built a Fusion from a company who didn't take bailout money.
You're right - if it was a vehicle that I was just dying to own. But, the CTS did not fall in that category. It was competing with BMWs, Infinitis, and Acuras.
Besides, I know people who buy vehicles and appliances because of where they think they are made. My FIL wanted a Zenith TV - no Sony for him! Likewise he got a Buick Lacrosse, and would not even consider a Camry or an Accord. Gotta be made in the good ol' US of A by union workers!
I figure I'm just balancing out that attitude :P :shades: .
"......Can anyone here in the UAW rah-rah group try and tell me how the UAW is helping workers in ANY way???...would anybody here not pick up and move TOTAL Ford production somewhere else???"
Yes. The leadership did their job, negotiating some concessions and getting some, too. It's the rabble rousers in the local plants who are causing the trouble.
Now, I'm not saying that the membership should just rubber stamp what the leaders agreed to, but I would think, given all we have been reading the last few years about the delicate situation the Big 3 are in, that they would have given this the green light.
But they vote it down at their peril, not mine. I wish them well, but I certainly don't agree with their choice.
"But they vote it down at their peril, not mine. I wish them well, but I certainly don't agree with their choice"
Unfortunate the rank and file voting are voting their towns and plants out of work because they fail to be competitive. It would be slightly different if Ford was profitable...even then they would out-cost themselves. Ford Sterling Heights axle factory vs. the non-union Getrag factory in North Carolina is a great example...good times or bad you have to be competitive or the work goes elsewhere.
Good to see you coming around on the lack of common sense in UAW membership. There are in every Union a few loud mouthed beer drinking bullies that convince their fellow employees they are indispensable. This is the "We can bring them to their Knees" thinking, to the max. It is a different economic climate than 1998 when the UAW started the downward demise of GM. Ford is gasping for air and the UAW members cannot see it. The leaders know what is happening. And cannot get it through those thick skulls.
I'm expecting to see UAW people with signs along the road saying, I voted myself out of a job, Please help.
".....Good to see you coming around on the lack of common sense in UAW membership. "
Well, I'd hate to see what would happen if this meant a strike, as a vote is a vote. What is amazing is the resounding defeat that the proposal is going down by. I know I'd be saying lets take what we can now and worry about "making it up" at a later date when times are good.
That is just good common sense. The difference between skilled thinking union people and high school drop out non skilled union people. I hated taking a big cut in 1985. We survived and ended up way ahead when the AK economy turned around.
It is a different economic climate than 1998 when the UAW started the downward demise of GM. Ford is gasping for air and the UAW members cannot see it. The leaders know what is happening. And cannot get it through those thick skulls.
There is a defining moment for each company. For GM it was the UAW strike at the Malibu plant which was one of the best selling and most competitive vehicles. The UAW stuck a dagger in GM's heart when it was already in ICU. Now Ford is making a valiant effort to climb back with competitive products and smart decisions. Ford will be at a business disadvantage due to the givebacks (slim though they may be) at F and C. So of course the UAW strikes daggers in Ford's heart. Now Ford is not as close to dead as GM was, so Ford needs to do whatever it can to save itself.
Who of us would not want Ford bailed out if it couldn't make it? While I was against the bailouts, I would not want to see GM survive while Ford failed because it didn't get the government charity. Ford should ship all its production out of the country, then someday if and when sense returns to the US they can bring some back. In the meantime there is always US built Hondas, BMWs, Hyundais, Toyotas, etc.
Sort of like the "Big 3" still being American vs. Toy/Hon being Japanese. My Acura was built in the US and my neighbor's Fusion in Mexico.
For Zenith it gets worse - no American ownership and no American factory. It's one of teh real tragedies of our eroding manufacturing base. They built here when they were the only ones left who did. They just couldn't do it anymore.
As far as the in his mind they were still American I had the same thing with my dad several years ago. He got an RCA. (It did, incidentally, replace a genuine old American Zenith.)
The Ford workers are idiots. Killing the golden goose.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
good times or bad you have to be competitive or the work goes elsewhere.
Exactly! Times have changed and there's competition out there. The unions have to be flexible. Sounds like the UAW leadership is realizing it, but the rank and file haven't yet.
men, I'm telling you, back in 1999-early 2000 at the Everett Boeing plant, they were brainwashing the masses in to thinking all sorts of pukey hatred about the Boeing management. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.
When we walked out in early 2000 for 48 days to make it the longest white-collar strike in U.S. history, I knew badness was brewing up a stinky mess in Washington state.
Indeed, my moronic workmates took the Company's 2nd offer, which was worth less money than Boeing's 1st offer! Oh, but SPEEA leadership warmed the dead over by saying that that strike "proved we could last them out...we could do it!"
Right. Poms-poms a flying to the crazy beat. Pathetically stupid behaviour, kind of umm...scary behaviour, really. Jonestown ring a bell here with anyone? :sick:
I still think a major defining moment is when the UAW (as a personification for most unions) did not negotiate any reduction in wage for the longtime oldies and negatiated instead huge reductions in beginning pay for the newbies. The overpaid older workers kept on doing their damage to GM (as a personification for all US car plants) through their wages being far too high. So for another decade or so those overpaid old guys had it made as they gave cyanide to the very companies who paid their (over) wages. The older workers with seniority should have take some wage cuts and helped save the companies; the cuts for new employees were short-lived because in many cases they were first laid off as reduction in production was needed--therefore their savings represented in low wages was gone from the company's point of view and the company was again stuck with the highly-overpaid old timer UAW employee.
Of course government's allowing outside companies to have free reign and huge incentives from state and local political entities furthered the poisoning.
I still think a major defining moment is when the UAW (as a personification for most unions) did not negotiate any reduction in wage for the longtime oldies and negatiated instead huge reductions in beginning pay for the newbies.
There's the example right there. The UAW wouldn't give any salary even when the company was nearly dead. The sr. management of the company kept flying around on their jets and getting mega million dollar bonuses while claiming it was the fault of the economy, the imports, and the UAW. Then they flew to Washington to beg for money. Is there ANY reason a company like this deserves to survive?
The senior management flying has nothing to do with company's being ineffective at competing and changing; that was a BO PC event. Look at the senators and Pelosi flying home and back on a large military jet--takes a lot more than a little Falcon flying an executive or two around. However the executives were stuck in old ways and flummoxed by the foreign competition. The damage with UAW overpayment was locked in from long ago, but also was done by executives with no vision of remaining competitive.
If UAW high paid workers had take no raises for a decade or more they'd still be highly paid and new workers could have been paid a little more. But majors cutbacks were needed and that mean the ability to close plants without maintaining people on standby for union rules instead of dismissing them as flotsam, unneeded to build cars.
The senior management flying has nothing to do with company's being ineffective at competing and changing; that was a BO PC event.
Actually it was a *Congress* PC event.
Agree with the rest of your post. As Rattner indicated, he was shocked at out poor the financial controls were at GM and how out of touch the sr. management was with reality. Add the UAW and they seem to deserve each other, don't they?
If Ford has any sense at all they are preparing an aggressive plan to move a bunch of production out of the US to marginalize the UAW.
Ford needs to make it clear to the UAW, that any factory that is not making money for the company will be shut down and moved where it can be profitable. Ford is in a good position to take on the leaders as they falter. Toyota has severe design and quality issues on just about every level. GM is just blundering along as Government Motors. Ford has built state of the art factories in Mexico and Brazil. The UAW has a chance to be a part of the automotive future if they realize and accept that they had about 70 years of being over paid for their skill levels.
Wasn't Zenith made in Glenview, Illinois? Heck, RCA had a HUGE plant across the river in Camden, NJ. One of television's pioneers DuMont was manufactured in New Jersey. Philco, of course, was in Philadelphia!
Sony and Panasonic put them all out of business with better products about 40 years ago. I worked for RCA starting in 1970 and bought my last American made TV from the company store. It was a good TV as 500 lb consoles go. The 19 inch Panasonic I bought in about 1985 is still going strong. I left it in my room at work when I retired. I think I got my monies worth.
So did high labor costs or poor engineering kill the US consumer electronics business? By about 1970 the Sony Trinitron was superior to anything made in the USA. And they were more expensive. So no real excuse except we got beat by the Japanese fair and square. Mourning the junk Zenith built into the 1980s is crazy. They were being built in Mexico and very poor quality. They were innovators in the early years then lost it.
The UAW and GM especially are following companies like Zenith into the abyss.
That's how my grandmother was, too. She bought a new 19" Zenith for her bedroom back in the early 1990's, I think. She wanted it because she thought it was still "American". Boy was she pissed when I read out loud where it said "Made in Mexico" on the box it came in! :surprise: She still has it, and I think it still works fine. Or it would if it was hooked up to the Directv or at least had one of those converter boxes.
"It's a bit like saying all lawyers are sharks, you know?"...doesn't everybody think that way anyway???...
lemko: "I believe most UAW workers are good honest people trying to make a decent living. We only hear about the bums."...deep down inside, there is a part of me that agrees with you, but many posters have documented poor workmanship that drove them to imports, and the American buying public, probably feels the same or they would not have deserted Big 3 in droves for Hon/Toy...
Plus, a car has many components...whether my hood doesn't fit, my seat doesn't work, my trunk is poorly painted or my ashtrays fall out (each probably done by a different worker, you know, part of the featherbedding and work restrictions of the worthless UAW), when the PRODUCT has a problem, I will either be happy with the PRODUCT or I won't...if not, I will desert the brand if I find something better...lemko, the sad part is that for all of the good, no, great cars you have owned, you simply do NOT represent the experience of many car buyers, or, at least, enough of them have had experiences opposite yours to desert the Big 3 and put their money into imports...
If I were forced to own an import, I'd see many others savings other than the ones fanboys always like to point out such as quality, resale and fuel economy. I'd save money in other ways since I wouldn't care about the car in the first place:
1. Car washes and detailing:
Since I'd hate being stuck driving an import, I wouldn't care what it looks like, so I'd let it get filthy and not wash or detail it very often, or at all. This would save me a lot of money on my water bill, car washes, and detailing products. As a side benefit, I can now smoke and eat in my ride since I don't care about messing it up.
2. Gasoline:
Since I'd hate being stuck driving an import, I wouldn't care what gasoline I put in it. Rather than wasting my money on name brand premium fuels, I can now use the Brand X regular gasoline that probably consists of a 50/50 mixture of kerosene and water with rocks, sticks, and bugs in it.
3. Insurance:
Since I'd hate being stuck driving an import, I would no longer bother carrying collision on it.
4. Auto Body Repair:
Since I'd hate being stuck driving an import, I could save a ton of money if the car got damaged in an accident. As long as it was driveable, I'd leave any accident damage as it is. Repairs would be with whatever household items that were available like duct tape and bailing wire. Maybe I'd spring for a can of Krylon if I felt like splurging. For more serious repairs, I'd go to the cheapest shop I could find and would care about the quality of the repairs or if they used junkyard parts or counterfeit parts from China.
Parking:
Since I'd hate being stuck driving an import, I wouldn't care where I left it. No more paying for parking garages. I could leave it on the nastiest street in the most dangerous ghetto and wouldn't care if it got stolen or vandalized. Parking would also become a real easy chore. I wouldn't care if I backed into that concrete planter or scuffed-up the wheels and tires.
Maintenance:
Shoot, I'd be the king of deferred maintenance! No more fancy synthetic oils or frequent oil changes. Whatever oil that was on sale at the dollar store would be sufficient for the import I hate so much. No more brand name filters either! Heck, the cheapest store brand would be good enough. No more 3K oil change intervals. Heck, I'd be pushing 7K, 10K, and 15K intervals. No more need for fancy coolants. Tap water will do. Tranny fluid? You have to change that?
Tires:
No more top-of-the-line Z-rated brand-name performance tires! Pep Boys brand will do, or, if I'm being especially miserly, a good set of second-hand retreads.
I guess the rank and file were expecting a good quarter from Ford and didn't want to vote yes on concessions and then have to see good numbers come out.
Mulally is having deja vu about the whole thing. And you know he's watching his former company's creation of a new non-union production line for the Dreamliner in South Carolina with interest.
I would take a Buick over a CamCord most any day. The rest are just not keeping up with competition. I just don't have any desire to own a sedan.
Maybe the 2010 LaCrosse, but any other model, I'd still take an Accord EX-l v6 over any Buick. The previous gen LaCrosse is about as generic and uninspiring as a car can get IMO. I do like the new one and dare I say it. The rags are giving good reviews too.
The 2010 Buick may be a great car. I just don't like the looks. I am pretty conventional in my likes. The Classic MB early Lexus are about it. Of course the only car I have bought for myself in the last 40 years was the Passat TDI. If it was the Audi Allroad edition with diesel I would have kept it. 99% of cars today do not have enough ground clearance for me. I was at a light by a Honda dealer and watched someone in a brand new Accord scrape coming out of the dealership's driveway. Of course none of which would I blame on the workers UAW or Non Union.
So what is next for the UAW workers that rejected the Ford contract. Do they strike? Does Ford implement their offer? Anyone know yet?
I highly doubt that. I see plenty of older GM products still on the road.
I was just messing with Lemko.
Well if it's any consolation, I did see four different A-body Centurys and one Cutlass Ciera, when I drove out to the mechanic to bail out my uncle's '97 Silverado. And they were all on the road, moving under their own power, as opposed to rusting away in front yards. :P
Ford said in March that concessions workers approved then cut $500 million from its annual labor costs. That brought its hourly costs for wages and benefits down to about $55 an hour, from $60, and falling to $50 in 2011. Toyota Motor Corp.'s hourly labor costs are about $48 and Hyundai Motor Co.'s are about $32, according to the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Michigan.
“Ford is disappointed that the additional changes were not ratified,” Joe Hinrichs, the company's group vice president of manufacturing and labor affairs, said in a statement. “All of us at Ford are absolutely committed to continuing to make progress on our transformation plan and we will take the necessary steps to be competitive with the best in the business.”
I'm almost embarrassed to admit that I do own one UAW built vehicle- a 1999 Wrangler(it was a purchase originally made for purely political reasons). That said, at least it was built by DAIMLER Chrysler. And-since I purchased it used-my money couldn't have benefited the UAW all that much. Fortunately a Wrangler of that vintage was basic enough that even UAW labor couldn't screw up its assembly to any measurable degree. And I must admit, I really do like the beast- so much so that I'm trying to bring it closer to its German roots; I've fitted Bilstein shocks, Hella E-code headlamps, and MB Quart speakers... Deutschland über alles, y'all
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Maybe the 2010 LaCrosse, but any other model, I'd still take an Accord EX-l v6 over any Buick. The previous gen LaCrosse is about as generic and uninspiring as a car can get IMO. I do like the new one and dare I say it. The rags are giving good reviews too.
Really over a Park Avenue Ultra or a Regal GS? Those are both great driving cars with the 240 hp SC Series III 3800. The Park Ave might be a little floaty but that is easily solved with a few suspension tweaks.
The Regal GS is a great driving car. One of my co-workers has one and with a wheel and tire change it handles great. Much better then any large FWD car should.
And your world is shrinking by the day...quite dramatically, I might add...lucky for you, Caddy was one of the surviving brands of GM...don't be surprised is even Chevy and Caddy are further downsized over time, as I am still wondering just how many people are going to part with $50K or more for a new Caddy from a bankrupt company...for those who were on the fence about UAW products, Ch 11 cannot be adding any confidence to them now...
And, as far as your post about what you would do if you had to buy an import, that is simply childish beyond belief...
God yes. The interior alone would keep me out of them. I've driven many miles in Park Ave's and I hate those cars. I don't like the 3800 supercharged or not. Wife's got an 07 GP with a 3800 Series III, that engine is outclassed by just about anything, but maybe a GM 4cyl. Now a Regal GS is interesting (they were decent looking for the day), but the interior is still awful. I've never driven one though. I have driven a Grand Prix GTP and was far from impressed. Sure, it was quick, but just another cheaply made GM product. IMO, everything on the W platform pretty much sucks. I've yet to drive one I've liked and I've driven many. The Grand Prix is far and away the worst though. I don't know of one redeeming quality about that car. My wife's GP is a penalty box.
Well if it's any consolation, I did see four different A-body Centurys and one Cutlass Ciera
Well, I don't know what to say other than I did see a late 80's Tempo on the highway the other day, so anything is possible. I used to have a Tempo, so I know how bad those piles of crap were.
IMO, everything on the W platform pretty much sucks. I've yet to drive one I've liked and I've driven many. The Grand Prix is far and away the worst though. I don't know of one redeeming quality about that car.
Now diesel, GM was filling an important market segment with that car. It was one way you could buy a beater that was brand new!
I dunno. The 2005 Buick LaCrosse was a nice car when it debuted. It was so nice, my wife bought one the first time she saw it. Today, I'm telling her how the 2010 model makes her car look OLD!!!
Well, 1 profitable quarter doth not a viable car company make!
OTOH, I have not been able to find out exactly what the concessions are. But if they are anything like what the UAW gave GM & C, they are peanuts.
1. No COLA (as if that means anything in today's economy). 2. No performance bonuses (gimme a break - the company is still in the red, for crying out loud). 3. Loss of 1 paid holiday in 2010 and 2011 (what, no time off the Walter Reuther's birthday?) 4. Suspension of tuition assistance (guess those UAW workers studying for their MBAs are going to have to fund their own way to Stanford). 5. Suspension of dental coverage. 6. Relaxation of some of the work rules???
None of this sounds like much of a concession at all.
I dunno. The 2005 Buick LaCrosse was a nice car when it debuted. It was so nice, my wife bought one the first time she saw it.
IMO, the LaCrosse was old the day it was introduced. Just another warmed over W body based vehicle. Does that make it a bad car? Probably not, but it's just another GM vehicle that will NEVER find it's way to my garage. Now the 2010 LaCrosse is different. I don't know if I'd buy one or not, but I'd certainly drive it if I was in the market for a nice FWD sedan. I still hate the fake portholes on the hood though.
Comments
Me too. I'd rather support an honest non-complaining southerner who built my vehicle. Or a Mexican worker who built a Fusion from a company who didn't take bailout money.
Besides, I know people who buy vehicles and appliances because of where they think they are made. My FIL wanted a Zenith TV - no Sony for him! Likewise he got a Buick Lacrosse, and would not even consider a Camry or an Accord. Gotta be made in the good ol' US of A by union workers!
I figure I'm just balancing out that attitude :P :shades: .
Yes. The leadership did their job, negotiating some concessions and getting some, too. It's the rabble rousers in the local plants who are causing the trouble.
Now, I'm not saying that the membership should just rubber stamp what the leaders agreed to, but I would think, given all we have been reading the last few years about the delicate situation the Big 3 are in, that they would have given this the green light.
But they vote it down at their peril, not mine. I wish them well, but I certainly don't agree with their choice.
Unfortunate the rank and file voting are voting their towns and plants out of work because they fail to be competitive. It would be slightly different if Ford was profitable...even then they would out-cost themselves. Ford Sterling Heights axle factory vs. the non-union Getrag factory in North Carolina is a great example...good times or bad you have to be competitive or the work goes elsewhere.
I sure hope that was a long time ago. Zenith hasn't been the least bit American for decades.
I'm expecting to see UAW people with signs along the road saying, I voted myself out of a job, Please help.
Well, I'd hate to see what would happen if this meant a strike, as a vote is a vote. What is amazing is the resounding defeat that the proposal is going down by. I know I'd be saying lets take what we can now and worry about "making it up" at a later date when times are good.
Regards,
OW
That is just good common sense. The difference between skilled thinking union people and high school drop out non skilled union people. I hated taking a big cut in 1985. We survived and ended up way ahead when the AK economy turned around.
WSJ: Ford Motor's Rank-and-file Union Members Reject Concessions Agreement (RTT)
Sort of like the "Big 3" still being American vs. Toy/Hon being Japanese. My Acura was built in the US and my neighbor's Fusion in Mexico.
There is a defining moment for each company. For GM it was the UAW strike at the Malibu plant which was one of the best selling and most competitive vehicles. The UAW stuck a dagger in GM's heart when it was already in ICU. Now Ford is making a valiant effort to climb back with competitive products and smart decisions. Ford will be at a business disadvantage due to the givebacks (slim though they may be) at F and C. So of course the UAW strikes daggers in Ford's heart. Now Ford is not as close to dead as GM was, so Ford needs to do whatever it can to save itself.
Who of us would not want Ford bailed out if it couldn't make it? While I was against the bailouts, I would not want to see GM survive while Ford failed because it didn't get the government charity. Ford should ship all its production out of the country, then someday if and when sense returns to the US they can bring some back. In the meantime there is always US built Hondas, BMWs, Hyundais, Toyotas, etc.
Sort of like the "Big 3" still being American vs. Toy/Hon being Japanese. My Acura was built in the US and my neighbor's Fusion in Mexico.
For Zenith it gets worse - no American ownership and no American factory. It's one of teh real tragedies of our eroding manufacturing base. They built here when they were the only ones left who did. They just couldn't do it anymore.
As far as the in his mind they were still American I had the same thing with my dad several years ago. He got an RCA. (It did, incidentally, replace a genuine old American Zenith.)
The Ford workers are idiots. Killing the golden goose.
Exactly! Times have changed and there's competition out there. The unions have to be flexible. Sounds like the UAW leadership is realizing it, but the rank and file haven't yet.
When we walked out in early 2000 for 48 days to make it the longest white-collar strike in U.S. history, I knew badness was brewing up a stinky mess in Washington state.
Indeed, my moronic workmates took the Company's 2nd offer, which was worth less money than Boeing's 1st offer! Oh, but SPEEA leadership warmed the dead over by saying that that strike "proved we could last them out...we could do it!"
Right. Poms-poms a flying to the crazy beat. Pathetically stupid behaviour, kind of umm...scary behaviour, really. Jonestown ring a bell here with anyone? :sick:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Of course government's allowing outside companies to have free reign and huge incentives from state and local political entities furthered the poisoning.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
There's the example right there. The UAW wouldn't give any salary even when the company was nearly dead. The sr. management of the company kept flying around on their jets and getting mega million dollar bonuses while claiming it was the fault of the economy, the imports, and the UAW. Then they flew to Washington to beg for money. Is there ANY reason a company like this deserves to survive?
The senior management flying has nothing to do with company's being ineffective at competing and changing; that was a BO PC event. Look at the senators and Pelosi flying home and back on a large military jet--takes a lot more than a little Falcon flying an executive or two around. However the executives were stuck in old ways and flummoxed by the foreign competition. The damage with UAW overpayment was locked in from long ago, but also was done by executives with no vision of remaining competitive.
If UAW high paid workers had take no raises for a decade or more they'd still be highly paid and new workers could have been paid a little more. But majors cutbacks were needed and that mean the ability to close plants without maintaining people on standby for union rules instead of dismissing them as flotsam, unneeded to build cars.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Actually it was a *Congress* PC event.
Agree with the rest of your post. As Rattner indicated, he was shocked at out poor the financial controls were at GM and how out of touch the sr. management was with reality. Add the UAW and they seem to deserve each other, don't they?
If Ford has any sense at all they are preparing an aggressive plan to move a bunch of production out of the US to marginalize the UAW.
In my world, UAW Built = $ALE!!! :shades:
So did high labor costs or poor engineering kill the US consumer electronics business? By about 1970 the Sony Trinitron was superior to anything made in the USA. And they were more expensive. So no real excuse except we got beat by the Japanese fair and square. Mourning the junk Zenith built into the 1980s is crazy. They were being built in Mexico and very poor quality. They were innovators in the early years then lost it.
The UAW and GM especially are following companies like Zenith into the abyss.
Any company that received Bailout money are Ghost corporations.... :mad:
Regards,
OW
That's how my grandmother was, too. She bought a new 19" Zenith for her bedroom back in the early 1990's, I think. She wanted it because she thought it was still "American". Boy was she pissed when I read out loud where it said "Made in Mexico" on the box it came in! :surprise: She still has it, and I think it still works fine. Or it would if it was hooked up to the Directv or at least had one of those converter boxes.
lemko: "I believe most UAW workers are good honest people trying to make a decent living. We only hear about the bums."...deep down inside, there is a part of me that agrees with you, but many posters have documented poor workmanship that drove them to imports, and the American buying public, probably feels the same or they would not have deserted Big 3 in droves for Hon/Toy...
Plus, a car has many components...whether my hood doesn't fit, my seat doesn't work, my trunk is poorly painted or my ashtrays fall out (each probably done by a different worker, you know, part of the featherbedding and work restrictions of the worthless UAW), when the PRODUCT has a problem, I will either be happy with the PRODUCT or I won't...if not, I will desert the brand if I find something better...lemko, the sad part is that for all of the good, no, great cars you have owned, you simply do NOT represent the experience of many car buyers, or, at least, enough of them have had experiences opposite yours to desert the Big 3 and put their money into imports...
1. Car washes and detailing:
Since I'd hate being stuck driving an import, I wouldn't care what it looks like, so I'd let it get filthy and not wash or detail it very often, or at all. This would save me a lot of money on my water bill, car washes, and detailing products. As a side benefit, I can now smoke and eat in my ride since I don't care about messing it up.
2. Gasoline:
Since I'd hate being stuck driving an import, I wouldn't care what gasoline I put in it. Rather than wasting my money on name brand premium fuels, I can now use the Brand X regular gasoline that probably consists of a 50/50 mixture of kerosene and water with rocks, sticks, and bugs in it.
3. Insurance:
Since I'd hate being stuck driving an import, I would no longer bother carrying collision on it.
4. Auto Body Repair:
Since I'd hate being stuck driving an import, I could save a ton of money if the car got damaged in an accident. As long as it was driveable, I'd leave any accident damage as it is. Repairs would be with whatever household items that were available like duct tape and bailing wire. Maybe I'd spring for a can of Krylon if I felt like splurging. For more serious repairs, I'd go to the cheapest shop I could find and would care about the quality of the repairs or if they used junkyard parts or counterfeit parts from China.
Parking:
Since I'd hate being stuck driving an import, I wouldn't care where I left it. No more paying for parking garages. I could leave it on the nastiest street in the most dangerous ghetto and wouldn't care if it got stolen or vandalized. Parking would also become a real easy chore. I wouldn't care if I backed into that concrete planter or scuffed-up the wheels and tires.
Maintenance:
Shoot, I'd be the king of deferred maintenance! No more fancy synthetic oils or frequent oil changes. Whatever oil that was on sale at the dollar store would be sufficient for the import I hate so much. No more brand name filters either! Heck, the cheapest store brand would be good enough. No more 3K oil change intervals. Heck, I'd be pushing 7K, 10K, and 15K intervals. No more need for fancy coolants. Tap water will do. Tranny fluid? You have to change that?
Tires:
No more top-of-the-line Z-rated brand-name performance tires! Pep Boys brand will do, or, if I'm being especially miserly, a good set of second-hand retreads.
Ford Earns Nearly $1 Billion in Third Quarter (AutoObserver)
Mulally is having deja vu about the whole thing. And you know he's watching his former company's creation of a new non-union production line for the Dreamliner in South Carolina with interest.
Union Obstinance Resurfaces for Mulally as UAW Vetoes Concessions for Ford
I highly doubt that. I see plenty of older GM products still on the road.
I highly doubt that. I see plenty of older GM products still on the road.
I was just messing with Lemko.
Maybe the 2010 LaCrosse, but any other model, I'd still take an Accord EX-l v6 over any Buick. The previous gen LaCrosse is about as generic and uninspiring as a car can get IMO. I do like the new one and dare I say it. The rags are giving good reviews too.
So what is next for the UAW workers that rejected the Ford contract. Do they strike? Does Ford implement their offer? Anyone know yet?
I was just messing with Lemko.
Well if it's any consolation, I did see four different A-body Centurys and one Cutlass Ciera, when I drove out to the mechanic to bail out my uncle's '97 Silverado. And they were all on the road, moving under their own power, as opposed to rusting away in front yards. :P
“Ford is disappointed that the additional changes were not ratified,” Joe Hinrichs, the company's group vice president of manufacturing and labor affairs, said in a statement. “All of us at Ford are absolutely committed to continuing to make progress on our transformation plan and we will take the necessary steps to be competitive with the best in the business.”
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/6699281.html
I'm almost embarrassed to admit that I do own one UAW built vehicle- a 1999 Wrangler(it was a purchase originally made for purely political reasons). That said, at least it was built by DAIMLER Chrysler. And-since I purchased it used-my money couldn't have benefited the UAW all that much. Fortunately a Wrangler of that vintage was basic enough that even UAW labor couldn't screw up its assembly to any measurable degree. And I must admit, I really do like the beast- so much so that I'm trying to bring it closer to its German roots; I've fitted Bilstein shocks, Hella E-code headlamps, and MB Quart speakers...
Deutschland über alles, y'all
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Really over a Park Avenue Ultra or a Regal GS? Those are both great driving cars with the 240 hp SC Series III 3800. The Park Ave might be a little floaty but that is easily solved with a few suspension tweaks.
The Regal GS is a great driving car. One of my co-workers has one and with a wheel and tire change it handles great. Much better then any large FWD car should.
And your world is shrinking by the day...quite dramatically, I might add...lucky for you, Caddy was one of the surviving brands of GM...don't be surprised is even Chevy and Caddy are further downsized over time, as I am still wondering just how many people are going to part with $50K or more for a new Caddy from a bankrupt company...for those who were on the fence about UAW products, Ch 11 cannot be adding any confidence to them now...
And, as far as your post about what you would do if you had to buy an import, that is simply childish beyond belief...
God yes. The interior alone would keep me out of them. I've driven many miles in Park Ave's and I hate those cars. I don't like the 3800 supercharged or not. Wife's got an 07 GP with a 3800 Series III, that engine is outclassed by just about anything, but maybe a GM 4cyl. Now a Regal GS is interesting (they were decent looking for the day), but the interior is still awful. I've never driven one though. I have driven a Grand Prix GTP and was far from impressed. Sure, it was quick, but just another cheaply made GM product. IMO, everything on the W platform pretty much sucks. I've yet to drive one I've liked and I've driven many. The Grand Prix is far and away the worst though. I don't know of one redeeming quality about that car. My wife's GP is a penalty box.
Well, I don't know what to say other than I did see a late 80's Tempo on the highway the other day, so anything is possible. I used to have a Tempo, so I know how bad those piles of crap were.
My mom had a 1984 Topaz; look up POS in the dictionary and odds are you'll find a picture of a Tempo/Topaz there...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Now diesel, GM was filling an important market segment with that car. It was one way you could buy a beater that was brand new!
LOL, Well the rental and corporate fleets needed something cheap to buy.
OTOH, I have not been able to find out exactly what the concessions are. But if they are anything like what the UAW gave GM & C, they are peanuts.
1. No COLA (as if that means anything in today's economy).
2. No performance bonuses (gimme a break - the company is still in the red, for crying out loud).
3. Loss of 1 paid holiday in 2010 and 2011 (what, no time off the Walter Reuther's birthday?)
4. Suspension of tuition assistance (guess those UAW workers studying for their MBAs are going to have to fund their own way to Stanford).
5. Suspension of dental coverage.
6. Relaxation of some of the work rules???
None of this sounds like much of a concession at all.
IMO, the LaCrosse was old the day it was introduced. Just another warmed over W body based vehicle. Does that make it a bad car? Probably not, but it's just another GM vehicle that will NEVER find it's way to my garage. Now the 2010 LaCrosse is different. I don't know if I'd buy one or not, but I'd certainly drive it if I was in the market for a nice FWD sedan. I still hate the fake portholes on the hood though.