You spend all this money to retrain and then you have convince employers that hiring a newbyin the field is worth their time and money. Most employers want experience and while you jump from place to place filling out apps, sending/faxing resumes, your bank is ready to foreclose on your home because you have tens of thousands in college debt at 9% interest.
I have to get back to my hobby horse. You cannot pick a job for retraining by watching TV advertisements. Those are almost all scams. 60 Minutes did a great show on them. Many trade schools and online universities are just after the Federal education loan money. The glitzy jobs they promise are not real or are very scarce.
If you can assemble a modern automobile, you should be able to install or repair a home heating and AC system. You should be able to fix the plumbing under the sink. Many contractors around here train people on the job.
The real problem is finding young people that are willing to get their hands dirty.
That is a good indicator of your ability to budget your finances. Would you want to hire someone that is trying to live past their means? I realize it is not always easy. I have been deep in debt and living past my means.
What I see in many young people today is the attitude that having a good stereo in their car or room is more important than saving a little money for the future. Worse yet they buy that crap on credit, with 18%+ interest.
Anyone else up for a poll of the ratification number?
To recap:
GM workers ratified by 66 percent of its production workers and 64 percent of its skilled trade workers. (link)
Chrysler workers ratified by 56 percent of production workers and 51 percent of skilled trades workers. (link)
Ok, here's my prediction.
The vote fails at 49% approval in view of Chrysler's 10,000 additional layoffs last week and Ford has to scramble to guarantee more jobs in an amended proposed contract to avoid a killer strike.
"Remember, this is not a competition, it is only an exhibition — please, no wagering." :shades:
I do understand what is happening...when you say "retrain for what?", that is the point of taking responsibility for oneself and making the life-changing decisions, turning lemons into lemonade...
You sound like all you can do is cry: "woe is me, they are taking my job away, who will send me a jobs bank check for the rest of my life so I don't have to work"...
I admit change is difficult, but, like it or not, it MUST be done...when someone had a job that no longer exists (wagon wheel makers and buggy whip makers keep coming to mind, as they had to adapt to the newfangled automobile) they have no choice but to learn something new and adapt...why is that so hard to understand???...
When I was in Detroit in the 80s, even BACK THEN they had TRA, Trade Readjustment Act, which was federal money (yeah, unconstitutional, but there it was) solely designated for re-training of workers who lost their jobs due to the imports...money to go to college, trade school, whatever, to grow and become a better person with more skills that were more needed by Society...could they have chosen the wrong field???...of course, but life is what you make it...you simply cannot get out of your mind that change is what happens to everybody, and they either adapt or perish...
The reason re-training is so difficult is simply because of whining...they don't WANT to change, because they had it so good for so long, and now life has thrown them a curveball and they hope that by crying in the corner that the monster will simply go away...it won't...
They don't have to change, rocky, because I said so, they have to change because that is life...
I did one thing in my life until my late 20s, did something else until age 42, and now do something else...lived in NY, GA, Mich, GA...life simply changes...
So, yes, they must re-train for something useful and it is their decision and their responsibility to do the right thing...they may have to sell the house and move, meet new people, find new work, etc....that is key...they must finally take responsibility for their lives, as the UAW job is gone, the world is changing, and they may have to work past 65...I expect to work into my 70s-80s, who just wants to sit in a rocking chair and grow old???...it lokks like I don't want to and they can't even if they did want to...welcome to real life, and maybe that is the key...the UAW had it all for so many years, and now they must join the rest of us common folks and take care of themselves...
I DO "get it"...they seem incapable of "getting it" because everything they whine about is simply the result of change, and change is a fearful word to those who are unwilling to change...that worker I quoted simply believes that a couple of concessions and the Big 3 are making billions, and jobs are guaranteed into the 22nd Century...that is what she fails to "get"...
And anyone who supports her in her ignorance is not doing her any good service...someone needs to explain to her how business works (bad product yields no profit yields fewer jobs tomorrow) so she can open her eyes and maybe see the world as it is, instead of the UAW utopia from 30 years ago...
It is tough, it is hard, and it is emotionally painful to go thru those changes...I DO understand that, as I have gone thru changes myself...but, just like a funeral of a loved one, the loss is hard, but after all the crying, life goes on and the remaining family must adapt...
At the risk of a bad metaphor, the jobs are gone, they DO have my compassion, but regardless of my thoughts and feelings, life goes on, they MUST adapt, they MUST take responsibility for their lives...
I "get it"...if, after 25 years of the imports (assuming early 1980s was the beginning of the wave) the UAW worker doesn't "get it", something is really wrong with them, because the obvious has been staring them in the face for decades, and they act as tho the Monster showed up yesterday, and they start crying "what are we gonna do?"...
They need to re-examine their lives TODAY, and start making changes for their future TODAY...
I wish them to best, for out of adversity will come the greatest personal growth...but they must take the reins of their lives today and stop crying about union contracts...
The UAW gravy train is OVER...........................
I hate to go in to the music genre to find simile's but, I will anyway.
Burton Cummings of the legendary rock group The Guess Who wrote an introduction to their monstrous hit 'American Woman' that they play right before the main power chords chime in signaling the start of the song everyone knows on the radio. Burton sings "What'cha gonna do Momma now that the roast beef is gone?"
What in the world is Burton talking about? I'll tell you! A guitarist in the band, Greg Liskew, decided to leave the band around 1971. No more playing guitar with the band that had already hit the big time and wasn't even close to stopping making records yet. Greg must've grown tired of the traveling to rock concerts, or had a personal difference with somebody in the band, or wanted to do something else for a living. Apparently Burton didn't get an explanation why Liskew was leaving before he did it.
Long story short, Burton wrote the beginning line to the intro to 'American Woman' about someone in the band who was going to be out of "roast beef" very soon. Possibly Burton was thrown a "curve ball" by Greg Liskew's decision to leave.
The difference here is that the product The Guess Who had to sell was still selling. The UAW's product is not selling enough, yet, for some reason, they feel that their union-given right is to hold Ford, GM and Chrysler hostage for more money. When getting that extra money is not gonna work...all three need more sales. More roast beef.
Burton might have been shocked that anyone would leave a musical gold mine in it's prime...but an innocent bystander to these UAW negotiations should be shocked that they even put their fists in the air demanding more. When more roast beef is not there. It's nuts.
"What you gonna do Momma now that the roast beef's gone..."
I know that having a good chunk of weekly Unemployment Insurance made re-training easier...living expenses could be paid and such. I don't know if such an arrangement would exist for UAW workers but I would think it would be worth checking out.
I used to love my Boeing job making jet aircraft drawrings up. But I also enjoy the Allied Healthcare industry and I enjoy living in another part of the nation as well.
Anyone else ancient enough to remember when the press asked Ronald Reagan if they should move to go find employment? I remember it well because I was going through my first Boeing layoff about that time(Mar. of 1982). His reply?
"Of course people should move to go find work." There is life after leaving your homeland. It might be a better place to live and work than where you grew up living and working, too.
I can identify with that. I left what many consider a great middle class job with Pacific Telephone. I took a job in Alaska with a startup long distance company. I planned to stay 2 years. I ended up working most of 37 years up there. The guys I worked with at Pacific Telephone got shoved out when the Federal Government broke up the Bell System. Many are still working menial jobs to supplement Social Security and a very small AT&T retirement. Change can be very good. It was for me. You have to take chances. Last guy left in the unemployment office in Detroit gets to be a WalMart Greeter.
worker. I don't know, maybe Pep Boys wouldn't be so bad if you work changing tires or brakes. But something tells me even a Pep Boys mechanic doesn't make what he ought to make.
Another job I considered re-training for was hotel management. I ended up getting bored with that job idea just thinking of the different circumstances that might come up.
Now, don't get me wrong, Respiratory Therapy is not a cakewalk job, either. I like the challenge and folks the need for more RT's is large as the baby-boomers age.
I think health care specialty is a wide open field. You are not going to get rich. It should be better than most trades for the foreseeable future. Just like you did. Identify a need and train to fill it. You can not sit in a jobs bank and whine that you would like to be a nuclear physicist, but no one will hire you.
here is "CHANGE"...no one likes change, especially when it is their job, their home, their lifestyle...the devil you know is better then the devil you don't, that is why unionites are fighting for a smaller share of a decrasing market, but asking for more and more, as though it comes out of thin air...it ain't gonna happen, but the union cheerleaders on this board stick their heads in the sand and just tell them to hold out for what they "deserve", as tho they actually deserve anything...the only thing they deserve is free air to breathe...
Everyone fights intertia to change, unless your mental makeup is to look forward to it and embrace it...each move I made and each career change was my own idea, so the stress of change was anticipated by me, but it was still quite stressful...I think there is that stress scale, where a funeral, a marriage, and moving into a new home are all equally stressful, but some events are considered positive and some negative, but all place stress on the person...
They can't say they did not see this coming...a UAW lineworker watching over the last 20 years cannot rationally sit at the dinner table and tell the family that this was a complete surprise...I will not believe that...if it is true, than the UAW/Big 3 really does hire workers with the IQ of rodents, and dumb rats at that...I believe that the average union worker simply hid in the sand in denial, due to the INERTIA of accepting change in their lives...now they have no choice, or the INDUSTRY will not survive, and the union can go to h*ll...
It is time to simply face reality, like it or not...union jobs are slowly falling into the dustbin of history, thousands of Detroit residents will soon be moving, and they had better start taking whatever job training courses are being offered, or else they won't even qualify as a WalMart greeter...not because I say so, because it is reality for them...
Plumber, electrician, carpenter, cabinet maker, HVAC, auto technician (even Hondas need maintenance, and what few Big 3 cars are left will need work), there are thousands of jobs/occupations/professions that do not require 8 years of college, but no one is looking forward, they simply see the brick wall that is their crumbling UAW job...
They must face change like adults, make changes in the family and restructure for the 21st century...reality demands it, not me...
We could see over 20 years ago that the 21st century would NOT be the century of the unskilled worker, like assembly work was for the 20th century...as robots took over many jobs, and many jobs were simply lost, you could see on a national scale in this nation that the high school dropout was not going to have many job opportunities after 2000...anyone with good vision in ONE eye and was not drunk could see that, and the ONLY exception was, sadly, anyone who thought that unions were the answer...unions were the problem, and any sober person could see it...
In the early 1900s up to 1980, if you had a strong back you had a job, often unionized, so your pay scale was often greater than your intelligence would usually qualify you, simply because of assembly work, whether cars, washers, dryers, refrigerators, etc.
But the handwriting was on the wall 20 years ago, maybe more, as you could see the US economy changing, where brains were valued more than brawn...this meant that the millions of dropouts who could not read or write would have trouble in the next century...while emphasis was placed in "getting an education, at least as far as high school", the dropouts never listened, their parents never listened, and the chickens are roosting as we speak, but the unionites keep demanding more from the companies that are laying them off in droves...
Not everyone needs a Masters or PhD, but the GED simply won't cut it...the class dummy who would assemble cars in his adulthood for his living is now simply the class dummy at WalMart... The people had better wise up because the world is moving forward at the speed of light, and they are waking up at the speed of sound...
These ARE the good old days, but we have to advance and adapt...those who can't read or write will not survive simply because certain basic skills are now needed that were completely unnecessary before...Lee Iaccoca spoke about workers who could not read warning signs in the factory not to put their arms and hands in the hundred-ton presses...now how stupid do you have to be to stick your hand in a press that can bend steel into a door???...this was 1988 or so...
Those workers are the new dinosaurs, and they either must change or become the crude oil of the 21st century...no one can do it for them, they either pull up their bootstraps and go to school or starve to death waiting for Toyota to build a plant in downtown Detroit...
Simply put, it is up to the worker to be a better and more educated person...the writing is on the wall, they need to read it or have someone read it to them...no amount of strikes will bring it back, no amount of walkouts will change it...
The base level of education and skills in this entire nation must move up to almost college level, at least high school graduate, because the rest of the world demands it...
The easy days of an illiterate getting a good job are numbered...anyone with a brain has watched it over two decades, and the ostriches must come out of the sand...
The people at the lowest level must improve as the unskilled jobs simply do not exist anymore...
Was this unemployed person, while still working, supposed to be stashing money away and sacrificing her quality of life and that of her kids so she could have this massive amount of money needed for retraining?
In a word? YES!
When employed you are to endure a standard of living based not on spending the entire paycheck, but living on 85 to 90 percent while SAVING and investing the other 15%.
"That maybe you like working in an auto factory doesn't require that factory to satisfy your "likes".
Change and be flexible and open to other kinds of employment and if it means selling out, moving, and retraining, so be it. Remember a Change will not kill you, but it will make you stronger. You can show your kids how to handle and deal with temporary challenges. They are watching to see how your reaction will be to the challenging changes and they will learn what you teach them.
But GM and Ford, to name two, are profitable and growing in every other region of the world. Their products are better, the competitive gap is closing and now one of their biggest excuses for struggling in their home market -- the UAW -- looks more like an ally than an enemy.
Well, is nursing still a good option? I know it's an unusual choice for a guy, but my cousin seems to make a good living as a male nurse. My best friend made the smartest move. He went to school for petroleum engineering, absolutely hated it, and his GPA reflected it. He then decided to become a physical therapist. The training was tough and the pressure from school and work was turning him into such a psycho I thought I was going to have to belt him with a chair one night. Eventually he got his physical therapy degree and things went up from there. He has his own business with offices in several towns, a nice house, a nice family, and a Corvette.
I'm acutely aware of the peril presented by masses of unemployed, uneducated, and unskilled people. Many of them do find occupations in the underground pharmaceutical trade and/or become part of informal fraternal associations with colorful garb. Just because I'm well-educated and well-employed doesn't mean I'm safe from those who aren't. What good is it if I'm doing well and my neighbors aren't?
OK, what do you suppose we do with all these "dummies?" A lot of those "dummies" stupid enough to stick their arm in a steel press are also stupid enough to pick up a hand gun when things become desperate. Philly is full of such dummies. One of those dummies could kill you or somebody you know and love just because there was no decent work available to keep said dummy from turning to a life of crime. Philadelphia's crime rate was a lot lower when there still were plenty of those good factory jobs available.
I don't believe assembly work has become obsolete as there are still tens of millions of people overseas doing those jobs for pay that is less than even the meager minimum wage of their home countries. What does seem out of fashion is employers with enough of a soul left to pay people a decent wage for the riches they provide their employers.
Philadelphia's crime rate was a lot lower when there still were plenty of those good factory jobs available.
How did the loss of 305,000 Federal jobs, 90% military, impact Philadelphia? That was how many jobs were cut during the last administration. How many factory jobs were cut as a result of those Federal cut backs? I know that all those people did not get high paying dot.com jobs in Silicon Valley.
...has everything to do with being a poorly run city. Which is also why, when employers either moved away, or went out of business, other employers did not move in to take their place.
On paper, the city looks good - located near large population centers, with a decent infrastructure and good transportation network (highway, air, rail and shipping). But take a look at the tax rates, the regulations, the corrupt city government and the tremendous sense of entitlment among large segments of the population, and it's no wonder that manufacturing facilities avoid it like the plague.
Local mayor says about picking her (Democrat) favorite candidate, "...how the (Presidential candidates) will help urban areas fight rime, fix crumbling infrastructure, and jump-start the local economies. "I want to see something concrete. If you're President of the United States, this is what you're going to do or get Congress to do to help cities, McLin said."
The attitude is that it's up to someone else to fix the problems poor management in Dayton along with a large population of hand-open, money-draining folks who think that their problems are caused by anyone other than themselves.
The mayor got into politics when her father passed and she was appointed to finish his term in Ohio legislature. He had been a local figurehead for party and group favors throughout decades. She could hardly speak a sentence let alone have an opinion for years in the legislature and her constituency elected her to Ohio Senate when term limits cut off reelection to the House. She wears a large hat, often outlandish, when in public. Rumors about sobriety abound. She's waiting for the Feds to fix the GM plants and Delphi plants along with other intelligent businesses leaving. Even the newspaper built their new printing plant in the edge of the next county 15 years ago after telling businesses to stay in Dayton. The schools are worst in the state of Ohio by all ranking scales.
She wants the Feds to fix her problems.
The problems certainly haven't been caused by the UAW.
:sick: How about those writers having the chutzpah to go on strike. What are they thinking. They are like those overpaid UAW people.
Here the writers try to manipulate what people think about political topics by how they write scripts (Remember Murphy brown shows?). They should be happy with what they're being paid now and just suck it up. We need to bring in workers, legally, from other countries who are willing to work for a world-competive wage. Perhaps we can just outsource their work to India, or better yet, to Japan.
What kind of benefitsgo to these people get? What are their total costs including social security, retirement funding, healthcare, etc., for these people? Must be at least $100 hour. The media I've seen doesn't mention these current pay rates. They don't mention all the benefits.
Like it or not, what we do with those dummies is to offer them retraining and see what they do with their lives...
Sorry, lemko, it is not my responsibility to pay for food and a home for those who are now unemployed, I am working hard enough to put food on MY table and a roof over MY head...
The one concept that existed for centuries up until the Great Society was called "personal responsibility"...welfare changed all that, especially in the inner city...too bad for Philly that the political corruption has made it a place not worth living, but that is NOT my problem...
The smartest thing to do is to leave the cities to wallow in their own mire, and the productive should take their talents elsewhere...
The cities catered to the poor, and the politicians for the last 40 years have ALWAYS played the race card...now their chickens have come home to roost and the cities should be paved over as they are cesspools now...forget federal money, it will be swallowed up in the corruption by the mayors who simply want a handout just like their constitutents...
Maybe a mayor like Guiliani is needed to enforce the law and make the streets safe...if the streets aren't safe, no business will set up shop there, and no business should...
The cities brought this on themselves...just like an addiction of an individual, they need to go cold turkey, drop the race card talk, and do what needs to be done...until then, forget the cities as a writeoff, and make sure your guns are loaded for home protection...
Some folks just ain't worth saving if they don't want to save themselves...besides, if THEY don't want saving, who are you to force it down their throats???
Freedom goes both ways, the freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail miserably...run your own life and let them run theirs, regardless of the consequences...
> it will be swallowed up in the corruption by the mayors who simply want a handout just like their constitutents...
Exactly right. The problem is the cities who had oodles of money in the past from industrial plants' real estate and earnings (payroll) taxes, now have figured out a way to get more money instead of living within their means. They start talking regionalism and want the surrounding area to be responsible for their voters, er constituents, they nurtured into a state of no ability to work other than cash a check of OPM (other people's money). Somehow 'sharing' became a catchword except there was no sharing wealth with Dayton 20 years ago when they had the wealth!!! Hehe...
So, as nice as it sounds to be compassionate and "help" everybody, all we do is like giving more heroin to the addict and wonder why he can't get clean and sober...
Somethimes you just have to force them to go cold turkey, toughlove, call it what you will...
We see this in New Orleans...Mayor Nagin FINALLY realized that they are just going to have to help themselves and pull together on this...what a concept!!!...that it really isn't the duty of Bush and the feds to make sure that daily life in N.O. is nice, that maybe it is up to them...Nagin, of course, when his whining doesn't get results, plays the race card as well as Jackson and Sharpton...
One problem that these race baiters never seem to realize...by constantly telling me that they can't handle or control their own lives, well, how much more do I need to hear becfore I truly believe them, i.e. that somebody needs to look down and treat all these adults like the helpless children that their leaders keep repeating that they are??????
A helping hand, yes...cradle-to-grave handouts, NO!!!
Yes I Rocky, am Darth Vader :surprise: What I mean is I interviewed with a large local Toyota, dealer this evening after my college course and was told I was their best interview all day and they had a huge stack of applicants and was begged to come back Wednesday. I connected instantly and couldn't say no !!!
So Rocky, is going to take a risk because my gut/heart tells me my chances of success at selling Toyota's a product I know quite well and in the closet admired very much well is a better fit for me and offers a lot better benefits, opportunity, and instant positive cash flow something I'm not getting or will get until well into December, if I stayed. I was asked to interview tommorow with anther employer at Lunch today. The employers are coming out of the woodwork and had 3 others email me today. :surprise:
I got approval from my father, and trust me it was hard for him but he said Rocky, you gotta go where the job offers come from and you have passion for automobiles, not insurance. He said at least Delphi, sells Toyota parts and GM & Toyota, have a long history of connections. GM, owns a portion of Toyota.
I called thanked my excellent instructor and he was so nice he told me I can take the course at no additional charge for the next 6 months if the car deal doesn't work out. I left my employer a long voice mail, and apologized but said it boiled down to guaranteed money.
This has to be the biggest shock to all of you !!!!! I'm still stunned !!!! :surprise: Rocky, a devout GM family connection selling Toyota's ???? Asked me that a month ago I would of told you your smoking some good stuff !!! :P
Well their you have it !!!! Rocky, is Darth Vader and will sipping and distributing some Toyota, Kool-Aid. :surprise:
We wish you the best selling Toyota. It cannot be any stranger than me buying a Toyota after bad mouthing them since 1964. From the looks of the new UAW contracts, you would not want to just be starting out with any of the Big 3. The contracts are pretty good for those that are currently working or retired. Fresh recruits do not have as rosy a future as when your dad signed on.
Yep, I've never have been in a nicer dealership in my life and I've been in quite a few nice ones. I tried my butt off to get in at a GM, dealer this summer but Toyota, well is Toyota and seems to not be affected by the economy.
-Rocky
P.S. Maybe someday Toyota & the UAW will join hands.
Good luck. I would much rather sell at a Toyota dealer than one of the big 3. It's a numbers game and to make the most $, you want to be where the traffic is. Since Toyota dealers on avg. move a lot more vehicles per dealership you should have a good opportunity to make some cash.
Rocky, congratulations and good luck. We know your passion with cars (all cars) will help you be successful. Everybody is pulling for you, and we all want to hear how it goes!
We all wish you well at Toyota. I was surprised you would even consider the insurance business, but who knows - some day you may be the F&I guy at a large dealership. Good Luck
First, congratulations on your new job...from your passionate posts here, despite our major differences, I actually believe that you would put your heart into any job you had, and attempt to do it well...
But you really should be proud of the job for its own sake..."I got approval from my father, and trust me it was hard for him but he said Rocky, you gotta go where the job offers come from and you have passion for automobiles, not insurance."...Forget trying to justify that it meets your father's approval...get over the union mentality...you have a family to support, and you must go where the work is...if Toyotas sell and Lincolns don't, you would be a fool to get a job at a Lincoln dealership solely because you believe in the UAW...that would not be principled thinking, it would be ignorant and short-sighted...
Like it or not, the union movement in this country does NOT seem to represent an area of growth, but an area of dinosaurs...the ONLY thing I give your father credit is for seeing the truth in front of him, and I am glad he sees the writing on the wall, and understands you have to earn the best living you can...
When I was in Detroit in the 1980s, I was amazed at the outright CHILDISHNESS of my UAW clients when I asked them to simply look at and sit in my Hondas to understand why I bought them...they simply shielded their eyes like a child hiding from a night monster, acting like it will go away if they just can't see it...
Simply because UAW may make some Toyota product at NUMMI is no reason for you to use that to "massage" your conscience...rocky, stop stooping down and picking up crumbs and pennies while the loaves and dollars fly overhead...sell the heck out of the Toyota, and know it is a good product, and probably better then what you are accustomed to...
Your passion should make you a star at the company, and FOR THAT your father should be proud..
Good luck in the job and maybe you will soon post in the Stories from Sales Frontline, and by selling Toyotas you might have stories like Mackabee's...just post fewer pictures, please...:):):):):)
I understand what you are saying marsha7, but GM money raised me and it provided me a excellent childhood. That is why I'm so loyal. This was a very hard decision and unless you walk in my shoes and lived in my family it's just really hard to understand. I will always be very pro-union and will always support the UAW. I hope one day the UAW, will represent Toyota workers. I will honestly give my best selling Toyota's. They do make a fine product. I especially like the Corolla, because I think it's the best economical automobile money can buy on the market. I'm also very fond of the new Tundra, as much as I've ripped it in the last year. I would prefer a different dash material but hey it's hard to get everything right. I guess they have a company car program. I'm going to ask about that tomorrow. If I have my choice down the road I'm going Tundra Crew Max 4x4 Limited :shades:
"We never dreamed we could get an agreement this good in times like this,” said Reggie Osborne, an official with U.A.W. Local 600 in Dearborn. One of Local 600’s plants, which makes pickup-truck parts, will stay open under the contract.
Rocky - congrats on the job and I do think you'll do well with it.
I always hate when I have to say such a thing, but listen to Bob (marsha). You're heading down a new path and it isn't going to help to look back.
I don't have the same strong biases that Bob has (I have different ones) but I can't argue with the fact that the UAW will never be what your father experienced again. It will be smaller and less influential. You can argue whether or not that is a good thing but arguing over facts is essentially the same as arguing about gravity. It is what it is.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Thanks Fezo, and yes its a new path for me. I'm going to give it my best and see how it plays out. I do not know if I'll be doing this 5 years from now or not but at this present time I'm not going to worry about that.
I just don't want to be held liable for putting all the other dealers out of business around here. :P just kidding
How about those writers having the chutzpah to go on strike. What are they thinking. They are like those overpaid UAW people.
this is apples and grapefruit. First of all, the writers are striking beacuse they want to increase their compensation,not because their industry is suffereing and their pay has to be cut. Second,if you want to use an analogy from the car industry, the writers are the engineers. Responsible for how the finished product performs and looks. The set builders,lighting techs, and cameramen would be the UAW line workers.
"I understand what you are saying marsha7, but GM money raised me and it provided me a excellent childhood"...I respect what the union did for you, and loyalty to anything is not necessarily a bad thing...
The Big 3 actually raised me, too...my father (with his 2 brothers) ran an auto parts and machine shop for many years, 1964-1986...we only sold American auto parts, and sent British, European, and later Japanese stuff down the street to the Foreign Parts guys who couldn't tell a Chevy from a Ford ( :):) )...
I learned how to rebuild starters and alternators, cut brake drums and then disc rotors, perform valve jobs, mill cylinder heads, remove bearings from axles, rebuild calipers and sell auto parts...it raised my parent's family and helped to put me thru school...that is, the parts business, not the union, as it was the cost of dealing with the Teamsters that finally broke the back of my father's company...
But, that is all in the past, and, while I appreciate your sentimentality for what the UAW was, it isn't and will never be again...like the Pony Express gave way to the US Mail, gave way to the telegraph, gave way to the telephone, gave way to cell phones and email and text messaging, some things have a life span and then Society moves on...
Because of solid state circuitry, half of the technicians that used to work for AT&T are no longer needed...the UAW and its workers are really experiencing the same thing, except they are more visible than communication workers...you need to face that and move on for what is best for YOU...you are not committing treason when you work for Toyota, you are moving into what the future may be...and then you may have to change again in five years because Korean cars may make Toyotas look like junk...
There is no shame in working for a foreign company, as they provide jobs for Americans and make a respectable product...this has always been a nation where we imported products and services from other nations, except that the auto industry is more visible and often more militant, but subject to the same market forces just the same...
Do well, rocky...I believe you will...maintain your nostalgia for what raised your dad's family, but do not dwell on the past anymore...if my Grandfather made wagon wheels and buggy whips in 1920, it certainly was a nostalgic time, but we eventually moved into cars, and Grandad went out of business, and, like it or not, he should have because his time and his product were over...same with the UAW...
There is no shame in working for a good company that makes a good product, and when you give it the passion that you argue here with me, you will do just fine... :shades:
Comments
I have to get back to my hobby horse. You cannot pick a job for retraining by watching TV advertisements. Those are almost all scams. 60 Minutes did a great show on them. Many trade schools and online universities are just after the Federal education loan money. The glitzy jobs they promise are not real or are very scarce.
If you can assemble a modern automobile, you should be able to install or repair a home heating and AC system. You should be able to fix the plumbing under the sink. Many contractors around here train people on the job.
The real problem is finding young people that are willing to get their hands dirty.
What I see in many young people today is the attitude that having a good stereo in their car or room is more important than saving a little money for the future. Worse yet they buy that crap on credit, with 18%+ interest.
Coming Into Focus
To recap:
GM workers ratified by 66 percent of its production workers and 64 percent of its skilled trade workers. (link)
Chrysler workers ratified by 56 percent of production workers and 51 percent of skilled trades workers. (link)
Ok, here's my prediction.
The vote fails at 49% approval in view of Chrysler's 10,000 additional layoffs last week and Ford has to scramble to guarantee more jobs in an amended proposed contract to avoid a killer strike.
"Remember, this is not a competition, it is only an exhibition — please, no wagering." :shades:
You sound like all you can do is cry: "woe is me, they are taking my job away, who will send me a jobs bank check for the rest of my life so I don't have to work"...
I admit change is difficult, but, like it or not, it MUST be done...when someone had a job that no longer exists (wagon wheel makers and buggy whip makers keep coming to mind, as they had to adapt to the newfangled automobile) they have no choice but to learn something new and adapt...why is that so hard to understand???...
When I was in Detroit in the 80s, even BACK THEN they had TRA, Trade Readjustment Act, which was federal money (yeah, unconstitutional, but there it was) solely designated for re-training of workers who lost their jobs due to the imports...money to go to college, trade school, whatever, to grow and become a better person with more skills that were more needed by Society...could they have chosen the wrong field???...of course, but life is what you make it...you simply cannot get out of your mind that change is what happens to everybody, and they either adapt or perish...
The reason re-training is so difficult is simply because of whining...they don't WANT to change, because they had it so good for so long, and now life has thrown them a curveball and they hope that by crying in the corner that the monster will simply go away...it won't...
They don't have to change, rocky, because I said so, they have to change because that is life...
I did one thing in my life until my late 20s, did something else until age 42, and now do something else...lived in NY, GA, Mich, GA...life simply changes...
So, yes, they must re-train for something useful and it is their decision and their responsibility to do the right thing...they may have to sell the house and move, meet new people, find new work, etc....that is key...they must finally take responsibility for their lives, as the UAW job is gone, the world is changing, and they may have to work past 65...I expect to work into my 70s-80s, who just wants to sit in a rocking chair and grow old???...it lokks like I don't want to and they can't even if they did want to...welcome to real life, and maybe that is the key...the UAW had it all for so many years, and now they must join the rest of us common folks and take care of themselves...
I DO "get it"...they seem incapable of "getting it" because everything they whine about is simply the result of change, and change is a fearful word to those who are unwilling to change...that worker I quoted simply believes that a couple of concessions and the Big 3 are making billions, and jobs are guaranteed into the 22nd Century...that is what she fails to "get"...
And anyone who supports her in her ignorance is not doing her any good service...someone needs to explain to her how business works (bad product yields no profit yields fewer jobs tomorrow) so she can open her eyes and maybe see the world as it is, instead of the UAW utopia from 30 years ago...
It is tough, it is hard, and it is emotionally painful to go thru those changes...I DO understand that, as I have gone thru changes myself...but, just like a funeral of a loved one, the loss is hard, but after all the crying, life goes on and the remaining family must adapt...
At the risk of a bad metaphor, the jobs are gone, they DO have my compassion, but regardless of my thoughts and feelings, life goes on, they MUST adapt, they MUST take responsibility for their lives...
I "get it"...if, after 25 years of the imports (assuming early 1980s was the beginning of the wave) the UAW worker doesn't "get it", something is really wrong with them, because the obvious has been staring them in the face for decades, and they act as tho the Monster showed up yesterday, and they start crying "what are we gonna do?"...
They need to re-examine their lives TODAY, and start making changes for their future TODAY...
I wish them to best, for out of adversity will come the greatest personal growth...but they must take the reins of their lives today and stop crying about union contracts...
The UAW gravy train is OVER...........................
Burton Cummings of the legendary rock group The Guess Who wrote an introduction to their monstrous hit 'American Woman' that they play right before the main power chords chime in signaling the start of the song everyone knows on the radio. Burton sings "What'cha gonna do Momma now that the roast beef is gone?"
What in the world is Burton talking about? I'll tell you!
A guitarist in the band, Greg Liskew, decided to leave the band around 1971. No more playing guitar with the band that had already hit the big time and wasn't even close to stopping making records yet. Greg must've grown tired of the traveling to rock concerts, or had a personal difference with somebody in the band, or wanted to do something else for a living. Apparently Burton didn't get an explanation why Liskew was leaving before he did it.
Long story short, Burton wrote the beginning line to the intro to 'American Woman' about someone in the band who was going to be out of "roast beef" very soon. Possibly Burton was thrown a "curve ball" by Greg Liskew's decision to leave.
The difference here is that the product The Guess Who had to sell was still selling. The UAW's product is not selling enough, yet, for some reason, they feel that their union-given right is to hold Ford, GM and Chrysler hostage for more money. When getting that extra money is not gonna work...all three need more sales. More roast beef.
Burton might have been shocked that anyone would leave a musical gold mine in it's prime...but an innocent bystander to these UAW negotiations should be shocked that they even put their fists in the air demanding more. When more roast beef is not there. It's nuts.
"What you gonna do Momma now that the roast beef's gone..."
I know that having a good chunk of weekly Unemployment Insurance made re-training easier...living expenses could be paid and such. I don't know if such an arrangement would exist for UAW workers but I would think it would be worth checking out.
I used to love my Boeing job making jet aircraft drawrings up. But I also enjoy the Allied Healthcare industry and I enjoy living in another part of the nation as well.
Anyone else ancient enough to remember when the press asked Ronald Reagan if they should move to go find employment? I remember it well because I was going through my first Boeing layoff about that time(Mar. of 1982). His reply?
"Of course people should move to go find work." There is life after leaving your homeland. It might be a better place to live and work than where you grew up living and working, too.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I can identify with that. I left what many consider a great middle class job with Pacific Telephone. I took a job in Alaska with a startup long distance company. I planned to stay 2 years. I ended up working most of 37 years up there. The guys I worked with at Pacific Telephone got shoved out when the Federal Government broke up the Bell System. Many are still working menial jobs to supplement Social Security and a very small AT&T retirement. Change can be very good. It was for me. You have to take chances. Last guy left in the unemployment office in Detroit gets to be a WalMart Greeter.
Another job I considered re-training for was hotel management. I ended up getting bored with that job idea just thinking of the different circumstances that might come up.
Now, don't get me wrong, Respiratory Therapy is not a cakewalk job, either. I like the challenge and folks the need for more RT's is large as the baby-boomers age.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Everyone fights intertia to change, unless your mental makeup is to look forward to it and embrace it...each move I made and each career change was my own idea, so the stress of change was anticipated by me, but it was still quite stressful...I think there is that stress scale, where a funeral, a marriage, and moving into a new home are all equally stressful, but some events are considered positive and some negative, but all place stress on the person...
They can't say they did not see this coming...a UAW lineworker watching over the last 20 years cannot rationally sit at the dinner table and tell the family that this was a complete surprise...I will not believe that...if it is true, than the UAW/Big 3 really does hire workers with the IQ of rodents, and dumb rats at that...I believe that the average union worker simply hid in the sand in denial, due to the INERTIA of accepting change in their lives...now they have no choice, or the INDUSTRY will not survive, and the union can go to h*ll...
It is time to simply face reality, like it or not...union jobs are slowly falling into the dustbin of history, thousands of Detroit residents will soon be moving, and they had better start taking whatever job training courses are being offered, or else they won't even qualify as a WalMart greeter...not because I say so, because it is reality for them...
Plumber, electrician, carpenter, cabinet maker, HVAC, auto technician (even Hondas need maintenance, and what few Big 3 cars are left will need work), there are thousands of jobs/occupations/professions that do not require 8 years of college, but no one is looking forward, they simply see the brick wall that is their crumbling UAW job...
They must face change like adults, make changes in the family and restructure for the 21st century...reality demands it, not me...
We could see over 20 years ago that the 21st century would NOT be the century of the unskilled worker, like assembly work was for the 20th century...as robots took over many jobs, and many jobs were simply lost, you could see on a national scale in this nation that the high school dropout was not going to have many job opportunities after 2000...anyone with good vision in ONE eye and was not drunk could see that, and the ONLY exception was, sadly, anyone who thought that unions were the answer...unions were the problem, and any sober person could see it...
In the early 1900s up to 1980, if you had a strong back you had a job, often unionized, so your pay scale was often greater than your intelligence would usually qualify you, simply because of assembly work, whether cars, washers, dryers, refrigerators, etc.
But the handwriting was on the wall 20 years ago, maybe more, as you could see the US economy changing, where brains were valued more than brawn...this meant that the millions of dropouts who could not read or write would have trouble in the next century...while emphasis was placed in "getting an education, at least as far as high school", the dropouts never listened, their parents never listened, and the chickens are roosting as we speak, but the unionites keep demanding more from the companies that are laying them off in droves...
Not everyone needs a Masters or PhD, but the GED simply won't cut it...the class dummy who would assemble cars in his adulthood for his living is now simply the class dummy at WalMart...
The people had better wise up because the world is moving forward at the speed of light, and they are waking up at the speed of sound...
These ARE the good old days, but we have to advance and adapt...those who can't read or write will not survive simply because certain basic skills are now needed that were completely unnecessary before...Lee Iaccoca spoke about workers who could not read warning signs in the factory not to put their arms and hands in the hundred-ton presses...now how stupid do you have to be to stick your hand in a press that can bend steel into a door???...this was 1988 or so...
Those workers are the new dinosaurs, and they either must change or become the crude oil of the 21st century...no one can do it for them, they either pull up their bootstraps and go to school or starve to death waiting for Toyota to build a plant in downtown Detroit...
Simply put, it is up to the worker to be a better and more educated person...the writing is on the wall, they need to read it or have someone read it to them...no amount of strikes will bring it back, no amount of walkouts will change it...
The base level of education and skills in this entire nation must move up to almost college level, at least high school graduate, because the rest of the world demands it...
The easy days of an illiterate getting a good job are numbered...anyone with a brain has watched it over two decades, and the ostriches must come out of the sand...
The people at the lowest level must improve as the unskilled jobs simply do not exist anymore...
In a word? YES!
When employed you are to endure a standard of living based not on spending the entire paycheck, but living on 85 to 90 percent while SAVING and investing the other 15%.
"That maybe you like working in an auto factory doesn't require that factory to satisfy your "likes".
Change and be flexible and open to other kinds of employment and if it means selling out, moving, and retraining, so be it. Remember a Change will not kill you, but it will make you stronger. You can show your kids how to handle and deal with temporary challenges. They are watching to see how your reaction will be to the challenging changes and they will learn what you teach them.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071105/OPINION03/711050349/1- 148/rss25
-Rocky
-Rocky
Like a band aid, Pull It Off Quick
OK, what do you suppose we do with all these "dummies?" A lot of those "dummies" stupid enough to stick their arm in a steel press are also stupid enough to pick up a hand gun when things become desperate. Philly is full of such dummies. One of those dummies could kill you or somebody you know and love just because there was no decent work available to keep said dummy from turning to a life of crime. Philadelphia's crime rate was a lot lower when there still were plenty of those good factory jobs available.
I don't believe assembly work has become obsolete as there are still tens of millions of people overseas doing those jobs for pay that is less than even the meager minimum wage of their home countries. What does seem out of fashion is employers with enough of a soul left to pay people a decent wage for the riches they provide their employers.
How did the loss of 305,000 Federal jobs, 90% military, impact Philadelphia? That was how many jobs were cut during the last administration. How many factory jobs were cut as a result of those Federal cut backs? I know that all those people did not get high paying dot.com jobs in Silicon Valley.
On paper, the city looks good - located near large population centers, with a decent infrastructure and good transportation network (highway, air, rail and shipping). But take a look at the tax rates, the regulations, the corrupt city government and the tremendous sense of entitlment among large segments of the population, and it's no wonder that manufacturing facilities avoid it like the plague.
Local mayor says about picking her (Democrat) favorite candidate, "...how the (Presidential candidates) will help urban areas fight rime, fix crumbling infrastructure, and jump-start the local economies.
"I want to see something concrete. If you're President of the United States, this is what you're going to do or get Congress to do to help cities, McLin said."
The attitude is that it's up to someone else to fix the problems poor management in Dayton along with a large population of hand-open, money-draining folks who think that their problems are caused by anyone other than themselves.
The mayor got into politics when her father passed and she was appointed to finish his term in Ohio legislature. He had been a local figurehead for party and group favors throughout decades. She could hardly speak a sentence let alone have an opinion for years in the legislature and her constituency elected her to Ohio Senate when term limits cut off reelection to the House. She wears a large hat, often outlandish, when in public. Rumors about sobriety abound. She's waiting for the Feds to fix the GM plants and Delphi plants along with other intelligent businesses leaving. Even the newspaper built their new printing plant in the edge of the next county 15 years ago after telling businesses to stay in Dayton. The schools are worst in the state of Ohio by all ranking scales.
She wants the Feds to fix her problems.
The problems certainly haven't been caused by the UAW.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Here the writers try to manipulate what people think about political topics by how they write scripts (Remember Murphy brown shows?). They should be happy with what they're being paid now and just suck it up. We need to bring in workers, legally, from other countries who are willing to work for a world-competive wage. Perhaps we can just outsource their work to India, or better yet, to Japan.
What kind of benefitsgo to these people get? What are their total costs including social security, retirement funding, healthcare, etc., for these people? Must be at least $100 hour. The media I've seen doesn't mention these current pay rates. They don't mention all the benefits.
What do these people want? :sick:
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Sorry, lemko, it is not my responsibility to pay for food and a home for those who are now unemployed, I am working hard enough to put food on MY table and a roof over MY head...
The one concept that existed for centuries up until the Great Society was called "personal responsibility"...welfare changed all that, especially in the inner city...too bad for Philly that the political corruption has made it a place not worth living, but that is NOT my problem...
The smartest thing to do is to leave the cities to wallow in their own mire, and the productive should take their talents elsewhere...
The cities catered to the poor, and the politicians for the last 40 years have ALWAYS played the race card...now their chickens have come home to roost and the cities should be paved over as they are cesspools now...forget federal money, it will be swallowed up in the corruption by the mayors who simply want a handout just like their constitutents...
Maybe a mayor like Guiliani is needed to enforce the law and make the streets safe...if the streets aren't safe, no business will set up shop there, and no business should...
The cities brought this on themselves...just like an addiction of an individual, they need to go cold turkey, drop the race card talk, and do what needs to be done...until then, forget the cities as a writeoff, and make sure your guns are loaded for home protection...
Some folks just ain't worth saving if they don't want to save themselves...besides, if THEY don't want saving, who are you to force it down their throats???
Freedom goes both ways, the freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail miserably...run your own life and let them run theirs, regardless of the consequences...
Exactly right. The problem is the cities who had oodles of money in the past from industrial plants' real estate and earnings (payroll) taxes, now have figured out a way to get more money instead of living within their means. They start talking regionalism and want the surrounding area to be responsible for their voters, er constituents, they nurtured into a state of no ability to work other than cash a check of OPM (other people's money). Somehow 'sharing' became a catchword except there was no sharing wealth with Dayton 20 years ago when they had the wealth!!! Hehe...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Somethimes you just have to force them to go cold turkey, toughlove, call it what you will...
We see this in New Orleans...Mayor Nagin FINALLY realized that they are just going to have to help themselves and pull together on this...what a concept!!!...that it really isn't the duty of Bush and the feds to make sure that daily life in N.O. is nice, that maybe it is up to them...Nagin, of course, when his whining doesn't get results, plays the race card as well as Jackson and Sharpton...
One problem that these race baiters never seem to realize...by constantly telling me that they can't handle or control their own lives, well, how much more do I need to hear becfore I truly believe them, i.e. that somebody needs to look down and treat all these adults like the helpless children that their leaders keep repeating that they are??????
A helping hand, yes...cradle-to-grave handouts, NO!!!
So Rocky, is going to take a risk because my gut/heart tells me my chances of success at selling Toyota's a product I know quite well and in the closet admired very much well is a better fit for me and offers a lot better benefits, opportunity, and instant positive cash flow something I'm not getting or will get until well into December, if I stayed. I was asked to interview tommorow with anther employer at Lunch today. The employers are coming out of the woodwork and had 3 others email me today. :surprise:
I got approval from my father, and trust me it was hard for him but he said Rocky, you gotta go where the job offers come from and you have passion for automobiles, not insurance. He said at least Delphi, sells Toyota parts and GM & Toyota, have a long history of connections. GM, owns a portion of Toyota.
I called thanked my excellent instructor and he was so nice he told me I can take the course at no additional charge for the next 6 months if the car deal doesn't work out. I left my employer a long voice mail, and apologized but said it boiled down to guaranteed money.
This has to be the biggest shock to all of you !!!!! I'm still stunned !!!! :surprise: Rocky, a devout GM family connection selling Toyota's ???? Asked me that a month ago I would of told you your smoking some good stuff !!! :P
Well their you have it !!!! Rocky, is Darth Vader and will sipping and distributing some Toyota, Kool-Aid. :surprise:
-Rocky
Good luck!
-Rocky
P.S. Maybe someday Toyota & the UAW will join hands.
Thanks pal !!!
-Rocky
I guess I better warm up to those Tundra interiors.
-Rocky
P.S. Isn't the Toyota Matrix UAW made at Nummi ???
-Rocky
Looks like the UAW, did pretty good for its Ford, employees.
-Rocky
P.S. Thanks Pat.
OK - your first assignment is to sell a V6 Camry to gagrice.
But you really should be proud of the job for its own sake..."I got approval from my father, and trust me it was hard for him but he said Rocky, you gotta go where the job offers come from and you have passion for automobiles, not insurance."...Forget trying to justify that it meets your father's approval...get over the union mentality...you have a family to support, and you must go where the work is...if Toyotas sell and Lincolns don't, you would be a fool to get a job at a Lincoln dealership solely because you believe in the UAW...that would not be principled thinking, it would be ignorant and short-sighted...
Like it or not, the union movement in this country does NOT seem to represent an area of growth, but an area of dinosaurs...the ONLY thing I give your father credit is for seeing the truth in front of him, and I am glad he sees the writing on the wall, and understands you have to earn the best living you can...
When I was in Detroit in the 1980s, I was amazed at the outright CHILDISHNESS of my UAW clients when I asked them to simply look at and sit in my Hondas to understand why I bought them...they simply shielded their eyes like a child hiding from a night monster, acting like it will go away if they just can't see it...
Simply because UAW may make some Toyota product at NUMMI is no reason for you to use that to "massage" your conscience...rocky, stop stooping down and picking up crumbs and pennies while the loaves and dollars fly overhead...sell the heck out of the Toyota, and know it is a good product, and probably better then what you are accustomed to...
Your passion should make you a star at the company, and FOR THAT your father should be proud..
Good luck in the job and maybe you will soon post in the Stories from Sales Frontline, and by selling Toyotas you might have stories like Mackabee's...just post fewer pictures, please...:):):):):)
-Rocky
-Rocky
Ford Warns of New Steps if Sales Decline (NY Times)
-Rocky
But you can't be a contrarian if you're afraid of being wrong.
I always hate when I have to say such a thing, but listen to Bob (marsha). You're heading down a new path and it isn't going to help to look back.
I don't have the same strong biases that Bob has (I have different ones) but I can't argue with the fact that the UAW will never be what your father experienced again. It will be smaller and less influential. You can argue whether or not that is a good thing but arguing over facts is essentially the same as arguing about gravity. It is what it is.
I just don't want to be held liable for putting all the other dealers out of business around here. :P just kidding
-Rocky
At least this ought to get you away from slurping that rotting carcass that is SAAB. :P
this is apples and grapefruit.
First of all, the writers are striking beacuse they want to increase their compensation,not because their industry is suffereing and their pay has to be cut.
Second,if you want to use an analogy from the car industry, the writers are the engineers. Responsible for how the finished product performs and looks.
The set builders,lighting techs, and cameramen would be the UAW line workers.
The Big 3 actually raised me, too...my father (with his 2 brothers) ran an auto parts and machine shop for many years, 1964-1986...we only sold American auto parts, and sent British, European, and later Japanese stuff down the street to the Foreign Parts guys who couldn't tell a Chevy from a Ford (
I learned how to rebuild starters and alternators, cut brake drums and then disc rotors, perform valve jobs, mill cylinder heads, remove bearings from axles, rebuild calipers and sell auto parts...it raised my parent's family and helped to put me thru school...that is, the parts business, not the union, as it was the cost of dealing with the Teamsters that finally broke the back of my father's company...
But, that is all in the past, and, while I appreciate your sentimentality for what the UAW was, it isn't and will never be again...like the Pony Express gave way to the US Mail, gave way to the telegraph, gave way to the telephone, gave way to cell phones and email and text messaging, some things have a life span and then Society moves on...
Because of solid state circuitry, half of the technicians that used to work for AT&T are no longer needed...the UAW and its workers are really experiencing the same thing, except they are more visible than communication workers...you need to face that and move on for what is best for YOU...you are not committing treason when you work for Toyota, you are moving into what the future may be...and then you may have to change again in five years because Korean cars may make Toyotas look like junk...
There is no shame in working for a foreign company, as they provide jobs for Americans and make a respectable product...this has always been a nation where we imported products and services from other nations, except that the auto industry is more visible and often more militant, but subject to the same market forces just the same...
Do well, rocky...I believe you will...maintain your nostalgia for what raised your dad's family, but do not dwell on the past anymore...if my Grandfather made wagon wheels and buggy whips in 1920, it certainly was a nostalgic time, but we eventually moved into cars, and Grandad went out of business, and, like it or not, he should have because his time and his product were over...same with the UAW...
There is no shame in working for a good company that makes a good product, and when you give it the passion that you argue here with me, you will do just fine...