What was stopping you? You were brought up in a middle class American home. You could have gone to college and worked your way into Big 3 management. With hard work and a drive to succeed you had as good of a chance as anyone else. Wagoner did not start near the top. He took a lowly white collar job that probably paid less than the UAW member was making in 1977.
I do not know about your parents but mine were not going to pay years worth of college. I also was not going to take out college loans equaling to a new McMansion, on the hopes that I could brown nose my way to the top. I would probably fail because I'm not one of those types. Wagoner, was a book worm and was smart in that regard but I do believe he to a lesser degree than the others do lack the other form of intellegence called "common sense"
-Rocky
P.S. lemko, you would have the Buick Division at my GM.
I knew the Sprinter was a success in the commercial market "Fleet Special" but was referring to it's failure in the retail market. I do not believe I've ever seen a Sprinter, except in pictures and if I had I never noticed. However I wouldthinki would notice something that ugly driving some where around me. That beast is so ugly it would scare Lyle Lovett. :P
Well Rocky, as President and CEO of General Motors, would along with union power would buy the Presidency. I'd probably buy Dennis Kucinich the White House because we share similiar views. I suppose I could buy Lou Dobbs, that seat if he wanted it. I also would make sure that each transplant would be unionized by having my new elected officials rewrite the labor laws in the unions favor. We would sign into law tariffs for country's that didn't want to play by my rules like Japan, China. Currency Manipulation would be enforced and NAFTA would be abolished. I would extend a hand to Ford & Chrysler, and any other American Corporation like Boeing, General Electric, and put pressure on these changes to level the playing field here at home. It would be a country that finally looked out for the best interests of it's citizens instead of a select few. I would rebuild the middle class so I could sell them each one of my cars.
"What’s good for the country is good for General Motors, and vice versa"
That would be a fact once again after I was done !!!!!
How many times does this have to be brought up ????
When was the last time the UAW engineered the products ? .......
Last time I checked the UAW, did not represent the designers and engineers at General Motors.
If you want to blame shoddy workmanship blame the engineers and bean counters not the UAW workers. :mad: Look at the new CTS,did those UAW, workers get that much better at their jobs from 2007 to 2008 ? NO !!!!! The engineers were allowed to build to a benchmark and the beancounter's were only allowed to peek through the window. :P
I knew the Sprinter was a success in the commercial market "Fleet Special" but was referring to it's failure in the retail market.
They are starting to gain ground in the RV market. I've been seeing Sprinter conversions running around and they are far from cheap. Granted they are still sold as a fleet to the conversion companies. Probably makes a nice little RV.
I doubt it was ever designed for the retail market. It's ugly and underpowered. Seems to be great for what it's designed for. Hauling stuff efficiently.
Well I've looked for his biography and it says nothing about his upbringing. For all I know his parents are wealthy and he went to school on his ma's/pa's, or rich uncles nickel. It's not hard to go to college when somebody else is taking care of everything else. You and many others also failt to remember college did not cost what it does today. (Cost vs Income) This has been discussed many times on Lou Dobbs. Another thing is back when some of ya'll went to college it was like graduating the 8th grade today. Seriously, I know I'm exagerrating a bit but come-on !!!! :P
I do not know about your parents but mine were not going to pay years worth of college. I also was not going to take out college loans equaling to a new McMansion, on the hopes that I could brown nose my way to the top. I would probably fail because I'm not one of those types. Wagoner, was a book worm and was smart in that regard but I do believe he to a lesser degree than the others do lack the other form of intellegence called "common sense"
Keep telling yourself a college education isn't worth the money. For my wife and I it was money well spent and has paid dividends ever since. Her parents and mine did everything they could to help us get an education along with our siblings and thanks to their foresight and generosity and trust me they were/are not rich, they sacrificed for us. We will also do the same for our children as we have been investing in their future education since the day they were born. If they decide not to further their education after HS it won't be because the funds aren't there.
FWW, the top two teams in the NFL (Patriots & Colts) also have the highest numbers of college graduates on their respective teams. A coincidence? I don't think so.
MY college education was paid for 90% by Student loans and grants. The interest on my student loans is 2.15%. That is so freaking low that it might as well be free. It would cost more to pay for college yourself with a lump sum of money because you would lose the opportunity cost of investing that money. I pay 135 dollars a month on my student loans and will have them paid off in about six more years.
This has been discussed many times on Lou Dobbs. Another thing is back when some of ya'll went to college it was like graduating the 8th grade today. Seriously, I know I'm exagerrating a bit but come-on !!!! :P
This has been discussed many times on Lou Dobbs. Another thing is back when some of ya'll went to college it was like graduating the 8th grade today. Seriously, I know I'm exagerrating a bit but come-on !!!! :P
Don't believe everything you see on TV. A good state school is not that expensive and the facts you see on college expenses are usually over stated. I never spent in a year what the media reported on college costs. My wife and I graduated about 10 years ago and we paid our loans off in about 5 years and worked our butts off with summer/weekend jobs to help pay our way. I guarantee the majority of those who decide not to go to school simply because of costs really don't want to go that bad in the first place. There are many scholarships and funds available to help those who need it.
My wife just finished a recruiting trip last week to Purdue University. Her company was giving $25k sign on bonus' along with an additional $40k in tuition reimbursement along with salaries around $95k. Those poor graduates.
The Rock writes:"I do not know about your parents but mine were not going to pay years worth of college.
That you have an entitlement attitude is recognized within your union madness, but do you also feel you are entitled to a graduate education paid for by your parents?
It is very possible to work full time during the Summer, Winter Break, Spring Break, and other vacation periods in addition to working while attending classes.
To believe that parents "owe" a college education to their kids is egregious value thinking. :sick:
That you have an entitlement attitude is recognized within your union madness, but do you also feel you are entitled to a graduate education paid for by your parents?
It is very possible to work full time during the Summer, Winter Break, Spring Break, and other vacation periods in addition to working while attending classes.
To believe that parents "owe" a college education to their kids is egregious value thinking. :sick:
I do know many parents that have sacrificed to put their kids through college. I know more college grads that did it the way you are saying. It is hard work and needs a commitment to graduate. I would say 9 times out of 10 it pays off in the end. When I went into the workforce in 1961 big companies were open to training new employees. That is not the case today.
It takes a willingness to sacrifice the toys and parties to be a success today. The government does not owe us an education. That is a concept that has caused more problems than it has solved. The middle class taxpayer cannot afford to send Rocky or any other young people to college. They do offer the GI bill which I know several people have used. Give to the country and they in return help you get a college education.
...I went to a state college and paid for it myself, but was only able to do that because I had a great UNION JOB as a welder. I doubt I could've got a semester's worth of books working at Wally~World.
FWW, the top two teams in the NFL (Patriots & Colts) also have the highest numbers of college graduates on their respective teams. A coincidence? I don't think so.
Last time I checked the Colts weren't in the Top 2. :confuse:
That would be the Pats and the Cowboys.
Keep telling yourself a college education isn't worth the money. For my wife and I it was money well spent and has paid dividends ever since. Her parents and mine did everything they could to help us get an education along with our siblings and thanks to their foresight and generosity and trust me they were/are not rich, they sacrificed for us. We will also do the same for our children as we have been investing in their future education since the day they were born. If they decide not to further their education after HS it won't be because the funds aren't there.
Never said it wasn't worth the money but it was a lot cheaper when you went than it is today. I respect what you are doing but the simple fact remains a college education does not automatically yield a good paying job like it once did. I can see that based on friends, family members, who are worried sick about how they are going to pay back there loans.
Don't believe everything you see on TV. A good state school is not that expensive and the facts you see on college expenses are usually over stated. I never spent in a year what the media reported on college costs. My wife and I graduated about 10 years ago and we paid our loans off in about 5 years and worked our butts off with summer/weekend jobs to help pay our way. I guarantee the majority of those who decide not to go to school simply because of costs really don't want to go that bad in the first place. There are many scholarships and funds available to help those who need it.
My wife just finished a recruiting trip last week to Purdue University. Her company was giving $25k sign on bonus' along with an additional $40k in tuition reimbursement along with salaries around $95k. Those poor graduates.
Sure we all can pull great scenario's and I'm sure your wifes company is recruiting for some specialized field. My brother who was Valedictorian, of his school applied for scholarships and only received a UAW, one and another from a Chrysler dealership. He received a small couple grand one from the college. He worked his butt off to get more and spent time in his colleges counselor's office applying for more. The bottom line he was the wrong race. It is much easier for a so-called minority to get a college scholarship than a white male like himself. Those are just the facts and the statistics back me up. I personally could not afford to go to college and every job I had would not work with me on my work with my schedule to attend.
I got the standard question of this job or college ??? If you choose college you better find another job.
That you have an entitlement attitude is recognized within your union madness, but do you also feel you are entitled to a graduate education paid for by your parents?
It is very possible to work full time during the Summer, Winter Break, Spring Break, and other vacation periods in addition to working while attending classes.
To believe that parents "owe" a college education to their kids is egregious value thinking.
No, but my government OWES me a college education if I'm willing to work part-time for it. What we are spending in Iraq, could send 35 million students to Harvard, pay for their room and board for one year. I'd rather see the money spent on something that will yield a benefit to society.
-Rocky
P.S. I'd like to know where all these flexible jobs were at when I was attending college. I went for a half semester and none of my employers would work with me. :confuse:
Wow, 2.15%? I am jealous. I consolidated and got 3.5%, which still makes me happy as I can make more than that in a simple savings account. 95% of my education was paid for by loans, grants, and a couple scholarships too. I lived very cheaply in school...and now I can have a little more. It all works out.
I do know many parents that have sacrificed to put their kids through college. I know more college grads that did it the way you are saying. It is hard work and needs a commitment to graduate. I would say 9 times out of 10 it pays off in the end. When I went into the workforce in 1961 big companies were open to training new employees. That is not the case today.
Most (80%) of the people I knew who went to college and completed had mommy and daddy pretty much fronting the bill.
It takes a willingness to sacrifice the toys and parties to be a success today. The government does not owe us an education. That is a concept that has caused more problems than it has solved. The middle class taxpayer cannot afford to send Rocky or any other young people to college. They do offer the GI bill which I know several people have used. Give to the country and they in return help you get a college education.
Well people should be able to do a alternative public service to get a college scholarship outside of joining the military. I couldn't imagine being in the military right now. :surprise:
Yes, they helped but couldn't afford to pay to pay all of it. I borrowed and got a few minor scholorships for my last two years for tuition and saved up with my summer jobs and the jobs I worked during the school year to pay my living expenses.
Well that 2.15% is with the .25 percent deduction for having the auto debit out of my checking account. I know I got a good deal when I refinanced but anyone paying more then 5 or 6 percent interest on student loans once they are out of college is clueless. If you got private loans for college then I could understand a slightly higher rate but if you got US gov't backed loans then paying any where close to 9% is crazy.
The government does not owe us an education. That is a concept that has caused more problems than it has solved. The middle class taxpayer cannot afford to send Rocky or any other young people to college.
Yes, they helped but couldn't afford to pay to pay all of it. I borrowed and got a few minor scholorships for my last two years for tuition and saved up with my summer jobs and the jobs I worked during the school year to pay my living expenses.
I'm just saying kids today have three choices. #1 Mom and Dad pay for it or a spouse.
#2 College Loans with debt over your eyeballs.
#3 Don't go at all and risk staying at mediocre wage levels but that is becomingthe case no matter what.
My younger sister finished her masters about a year ago, I know the best she was able to do when she consolidated was around 6%. Still not bad. When I graduated in '95 my GSL was around 8% but overall rates were much higher then. I paid them off early so it really didn't matter.
My sister went to school to become a veterinarian. She makes a good income, but paying for seven years of college is like paying a second mortgage. Fortunately, my brother-in-law does very well for himself and the family.
I should have qualified that all of what I said really applies to undergrad education and not post-grad. The rates for post-grad loans are always higher because there is less competition.
I worked for the school when I was in college and managed a repair shop during school breaks. Since I worked for the school I got very flexible hours and plenty of time to study/get work done. The last part of college I started working for UPS and once I graduated I just got a management job there. I still worked at my repair shop during the day. I was working 70 plus hours a week but I made enough money to pay off all of my credit card debt from college and buy a new car within 12 months of graduation. I also paid extra amounts on my student loans so I will actually be done paying them over a year or so early. I would have to look at my paperwork to see exactly how early it is. I don't bother to pay extra on them anymore since I would rather put that extra money into paying down my mortgage. That has a much higher interest rate then my student loans.
Oh and another thing student loan interest is tax deductible so it really costs you very little on an after tax basis.
The same thing comes up because it never goes out of style, and it is still valid...
BTW, your comment on the CTS has validity...also, even tho most union made cars for 20+ years were boat anchor junk, the Corvette always seemed to be rather well made...maybe those guys actually cared about the product...
The same thing comes up because it never goes out of style, and it is still valid...
BTW, your comment on the CTS has validity...also, even tho most union made cars for 20+ years were boat anchor junk, the Corvette always seemed to be rather well made...maybe those guys actually cared about the product...
Also, no one OWES you anything in the way of an education...while we can debate whether or not an Ivy League degree is worth the monetary cost, there are hundreds of state schools that are much cheaper and still give a worthwhile education...
That you chose not to get one is fine...but just because your parents couldn't or wouldn't does not devalue the concept of higher education...but stop whining because your parents didn't buy you one...your union mentality of (welfare) entitlement, i.e. someone OWES me something, oozes out of every topic you seem to post about...
And there is nothing wrong with starting college today...aren't something like 30-40% of classes filled with people over 30???
If you want it, it is NEVER too late...you borrow money to buy a house, you borrow money to buy a car, why not borrow money to invest in yourself???...when you think about it, the one thing you can't conceive about borrowing for, an education, is the ONLY real investment in yourself worth borrowing for...you can rent an apartment, you can drive a beater, but once you have invested in yourself, it is yours forever...certainly worth going into debt over, IMO...
Perhaps, I will one day but remember I'm in the middle of a divorce and those problems will have to be worked out before I can worry about me.
I respect all those who have gone to college, but some people think because you didn't get a college degree that you aren't as smart as they. About everyone I know who has completed it and the truth finally comes out say it was like going to high school and what they learned will not be applied onthe job.
I personally think their is to much waste in college and students are required to take worthless classes like History to obtain a skill trades degree. They need to clean up the slop that will shorten the time to obtain a degree and then perhaps the classes that mean something can be concentrated onlike they do in Germany
My father-in-law worked 32 years in the steel mills as an union iron worker. He saw the writing on the wall 20 years ago after being layed off in the early 80's and watching the company go down the tubes. He encouraged my MIL to go back to school (she was in her mid 40's), since he was concerned about their future . Good thing, cause LTV went belly up, he lost his job and got something like 50% of his pension. Now my mother-in-law is a manager in an accounting department and has a better paying job than he ever had. They won't have to eat dog food in retirement due to that decision and he fishes and tinkers and around while she's at work.
I respect all those who have gone to college, but some people think because you didn't get a college degree that you aren't as smart as they. About everyone I know who has completed it and the truth finally comes out say it was like going to high school and what they learned will not be applied on the job.
I've never made the comment or believe that those who don't go to college don't have intelligence. That's not the case at all. I personally know people who are very intelligent who didn't attend college. IMO, a degree in most cases only allows you to have more opportunities. Which if taken advantage of will provide rewards.
To me high school was BS and college was enlightening. I met people from all over the world (I had roommate from China and another from Korea) and learned things that I would never had otherwise. In my opinion a bachelor's degree should include a well rounded curriculum. Since when is history not important. A history class most likely won't help you on the job, but it certainly will make you a wiser person. Sure I took western civ from a Russian professor (talk about needing No-Doz) but I'm glad I had the class none the less.
As for trade skill degrees, if it is an associate or bachelor program, then history etc is required. But many tech schools offer certificate programs that just teach the nuts and bolts.
If you had posted about your divorce in another post, forgive me, I missed it...I agree...right now, completing that may be the most important thing at the moment...
I also agree that taking History or Political Science is unnecessary if you are seeking training in any skilled trade...nice to know, but not necessary if you want to be a plumber or a welder...
For many, college may be a waste, except that it may serve to extend their adolescence by another 4 years, from age 18-22...but not for all...
I do not look down on those w/o college...first off, many of them are smarter than me (how could that be???... :P :confuse: ), second, many have skills I only wish I had...
I am aware that I have been fortunate to have received additional FORMAL education since high school...whenever someone mentions about going to college, I am the first to encourage them, as it is often a worthwhile experience...my formal education does not make me smarter, simply because for all I may know about law, someone else can build a house or paint a house, which is probably a more practical skill for real life than my knowledge of law...
Even if one attends college simply to broaden the mind, it may be worth it...can it be done at home by reading the same books???...probably yes, but, just like we are social creatures who mingle with other humans for social contact, similarly, arguing concepts in class often helps to sharpen and focus the mind, maybe better than sitting home and reading the same book during Jerry Springer commercial breaks...
No one should attend college just for the experience of paying tuition, but if the school has classes that can make you a different person, it may be worth the experience...
Some educations will lead to better income, some will not do that at all...but, for many if not most, it DOES have value...is someone a lesser person without college???...NO...NO...NO...NO...
For all my disagreements with you, and all those times I wonder how any human can arrive at the conclusions you reach (I do wonder, you know... ), you are no less a person without college...
The person who I held in the highest esteem, while he was alive, on the planet earth was my father, a brilliant man if there ever was one, and he did not go beyond high school, but he was far smarter and savvy about the world than any college graduate I ever met...
Well Marsha7, I do have a 1/2 year of college under my belt. I also have taken college like courses to be a certified Armed Security Officer. It was required by the NRC. I also completed Basic Security Police Officer Training (B.S.P.O.T.) for the Dept. Of Energy.
I have completed many industrial classes like HazMat, Kaizen, Six-Sigma, Lean Manufactoring, Behavioral Based Safety, Ergonomics, Hi-Lo/Fork Truck courses, Truck Driving School for a CDL, just to name a few. I just recently (last week) completed a professional automobile training course to sell automobiles the proper way. So I might not have a college degree but I have obtained numerous licenses and certificates in my career.
I also Lemko, did a little welding myself a 1/2 year worth but did not like it.
I'm just saying kids today have three choices. #1 Mom and Dad pay for it or a spouse.
#2 College Loans with debt over your eyeballs.
#3 Don't go at all and risk staying at mediocre wage levels but that is becomingthe case no matter what.
I'm in the camp that what it takes most is commitment. The way most parents cover the costs is to let the kid stay at home during college.
I worked 25-30 hrs/week and full summers, took 5 years to get my bachelor's degree at a state school. I graduated with NO loans. With the availability of community colleges, you can go very cheaply for the first two years and then transfer to a 4-year university. Pick the right field and excellent salaries are available. Most people can afford to go, even today, if they are willing to sacrifice.
I think it's more important to get a SKILL rather than an education. Sure, you can recite all of Shakespeare's sonnets, which is great in sophisticated company, but what does that have to do with any job? I'd value a guy with a high school education who can rebuild my transmission or rewire my house before any pretentious stuffed shirt who knows all about the arts.
Also, become skilled in something that can't be outsourced. I'm not going to have a guy from India or China come over to America to fix my toilet and I'm not shipping my car overseas so Chang or Apu can fix it.
Well, just a long a she doesn't get fed up with him tinkiering and fishing while she's busting her butt. If she divorces him, he'll be fighting Fido for his share of ALPO.
Also, become skilled in something that can't be outsourced. I'm not going to have a guy from India or China come over to America to fix my toilet and I'm not shipping my car overseas so Chang or Apu can fix it.
Exactly!
My stepson, who is 21, is working as an HVAC technician, doing commercial projects in Utah. He doesn't have a High School diploma - his mother, girlfriend and I are pushing for him to get his GED - but if he becomes good enough at what he does, he will be able to make a comfortable living from it.
My wife and I have commented many times on how that kind of skill cannot be outsourced.
My wife is someone who worked hard to get where she is today. She got married at 19, had 2 kids by the time she was 23 and was divorced at 28. She went back to school, got an Associates degree in Early Childhood Education, and went to work in the child care industry.
When I met her 10 years ago, she was making $7/hr as an assistant director. Today she is the director of early childhood programs for a small school district close to where we live and she's making over $50K a year.
But, she knows that isn't enough ... she has enrolled in school again to work towards her Bachelor's degree, as she believes the state of Colorado will toughen the standards for child care directors.
I think it's more important to get a SKILL rather than an education.
Actually learning one of the skilled trades is an education. Being able to do something that we all need from time to time will have a market for the foreseeable future. It usually requires harder physical labor and there is a limit as to how much you will make. It beats starving to death or working at Wally World.
"Well Marsha7, I do have a 1/2 year of college under my belt. I also have taken college like courses to be a certified Armed Security Officer. It was required by the NRC. I also completed Basic Security Police Officer Training (B.S.P.O.T.) for the Dept. Of Energy.
I have completed many industrial classes like HazMat, Kaizen, Six-Sigma, Lean Manufactoring, Behavioral Based Safety, Ergonomics, Hi-Lo/Fork Truck courses, Truck Driving School for a CDL, just to name a few. I just recently (last week) completed a professional automobile training course to sell automobiles the proper way. So I might not have a college degree but I have obtained numerous licenses and certificates in my career. "
You have proven my point...you ARE obviously well educated and well trained, it just wasn't thru a "regular" college...so what...you have talents that cannot be taken away from you...
College can broaden the mind, but another poster said that it is better to have a skill than be well versed in the arts...well said...
Keep going and good luck...any chance I can get $2500 under invoice, less holdback, on a new Buick for my Mother???.. :shades:
After reading your list of training and schooling, why not take the Civil service test and become a police officer? I had 26 years on a local NJ Police Dept. and retired. Most Departments have a 25 year service and out pension plan plus all your benefits!!!!! In fact, my son retires from a police force in Feb. 2008 (25 years) and my grandaughter has 8 years on the force. NORTSR
"The UAW represents about 54,000 Ford workers, and 79 percent of those voted in favor of the pact, the union said Wednesday. The UAW typically does not release vote totals."
Good suggestion. My brother-in-law is a retired NJ police officer and a friend is a retired marine cop. They got a bit antsy at the end but are pretty happy with things.
I'm in an NJ civil service job. Not the nice deal the police have (they earn that!) but good nonetheless. If I found another job now I could retire out of here at about half pay and health insurance. I've been here since about the Truman administration. Well, OK, only Carter...
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Comments
And this is coming from someone who said the same thing not even two years ago when GM, was in real rough shape.
I have no doubt in my mind I could do a better job.
-Rocky
I do not know about your parents but mine were not going to pay years worth of college. I also was not going to take out college loans equaling to a new McMansion, on the hopes that I could brown nose my way to the top. I would probably fail because I'm not one of those types. Wagoner, was a book worm and was smart in that regard but I do believe he to a lesser degree than the others do lack the other form of intellegence called "common sense"
-Rocky
P.S. lemko, you would have the Buick Division at my GM.
I knew the Sprinter was a success in the commercial market "Fleet Special" but was referring to it's failure in the retail market. I do not believe I've ever seen a Sprinter, except in pictures and if I had I never noticed. However I wouldthinki would notice something that ugly driving some where around me. That beast is so ugly it would scare Lyle Lovett. :P
-Rocky
"What’s good for the country is good for General Motors, and vice versa"
That would be a fact once again after I was done !!!!!
-Rocky
How many times does this have to be brought up ????
When was the last time the UAW engineered the products ? .......
Last time I checked the UAW, did not represent the designers and engineers at General Motors.
If you want to blame shoddy workmanship blame the engineers and bean counters not the UAW workers. :mad: Look at the new CTS,did those UAW, workers get that much better at their jobs from 2007 to 2008 ? NO !!!!! The engineers were allowed to build to a benchmark and the beancounter's were only allowed to peek through the window.
I think you will finally get my drift.
-Rocky
They are starting to gain ground in the RV market. I've been seeing Sprinter conversions running around and they are far from cheap. Granted they are still sold as a fleet to the conversion companies. Probably makes a nice little RV.
I doubt it was ever designed for the retail market. It's ugly and underpowered. Seems to be great for what it's designed for. Hauling stuff efficiently.
-Rocky
Keep telling yourself a college education isn't worth the money. For my wife and I it was money well spent and has paid dividends ever since. Her parents and mine did everything they could to help us get an education along with our siblings and thanks to their foresight and generosity and trust me they were/are not rich, they sacrificed for us. We will also do the same for our children as we have been investing in their future education since the day they were born. If they decide not to further their education after HS it won't be because the funds aren't there.
FWW, the top two teams in the NFL (Patriots & Colts) also have the highest numbers of college graduates on their respective teams. A coincidence? I don't think so.
This has been discussed many times on Lou Dobbs. Another thing is back when some of ya'll went to college it was like graduating the 8th grade today.
Don't believe everything you see on TV. A good state school is not that expensive and the facts you see on college expenses are usually over stated. I never spent in a year what the media reported on college costs. My wife and I graduated about 10 years ago and we paid our loans off in about 5 years and worked our butts off with summer/weekend jobs to help pay our way. I guarantee the majority of those who decide not to go to school simply because of costs really don't want to go that bad in the first place. There are many scholarships and funds available to help those who need it.
My wife just finished a recruiting trip last week to Purdue University. Her company was giving $25k sign on bonus' along with an additional $40k in tuition reimbursement along with salaries around $95k. Those poor graduates.
That you have an entitlement attitude is recognized within your union madness, but do you also feel you are entitled to a graduate education paid for by your parents?
It is very possible to work full time during the Summer, Winter Break, Spring Break, and other vacation periods in addition to working while attending classes.
To believe that parents "owe" a college education to their kids is egregious value thinking. :sick:
It is very possible to work full time during the Summer, Winter Break, Spring Break, and other vacation periods in addition to working while attending classes.
To believe that parents "owe" a college education to their kids is egregious value thinking. :sick:
True.
It takes a willingness to sacrifice the toys and parties to be a success today. The government does not owe us an education. That is a concept that has caused more problems than it has solved. The middle class taxpayer cannot afford to send Rocky or any other young people to college. They do offer the GI bill which I know several people have used. Give to the country and they in return help you get a college education.
Last time I checked the Colts weren't in the Top 2. :confuse:
That would be the Pats and the Cowboys.
Keep telling yourself a college education isn't worth the money. For my wife and I it was money well spent and has paid dividends ever since. Her parents and mine did everything they could to help us get an education along with our siblings and thanks to their foresight and generosity and trust me they were/are not rich, they sacrificed for us. We will also do the same for our children as we have been investing in their future education since the day they were born. If they decide not to further their education after HS it won't be because the funds aren't there.
Never said it wasn't worth the money but it was a lot cheaper when you went than it is today. I respect what you are doing but the simple fact remains a college education does not automatically yield a good paying job like it once did. I can see that based on friends, family members, who are worried sick about how they are going to pay back there loans.
-Rocky
-Rocky
My wife just finished a recruiting trip last week to Purdue University. Her company was giving $25k sign on bonus' along with an additional $40k in tuition reimbursement along with salaries around $95k. Those poor graduates.
Sure we all can pull great scenario's and I'm sure your wifes company is recruiting for some specialized field. My brother who was Valedictorian, of his school applied for scholarships and only received a UAW, one and another from a Chrysler dealership. He received a small couple grand one from the college. He worked his butt off to get more and spent time in his colleges counselor's office applying for more. The bottom line he was the wrong race. It is much easier for a so-called minority to get a college scholarship than a white male like himself. Those are just the facts and the statistics back me up.
I got the standard question of this job or college ??? If you choose college you better find another job.
-Rocky
It is very possible to work full time during the Summer, Winter Break, Spring Break, and other vacation periods in addition to working while attending classes.
To believe that parents "owe" a college education to their kids is egregious value thinking.
No, but my government OWES me a college education if I'm willing to work part-time for it. What we are spending in Iraq, could send 35 million students to Harvard, pay for their room and board for one year.
-Rocky
P.S. I'd like to know where all these flexible jobs were at when I was attending college. I went for a half semester and none of my employers would work with me. :confuse:
-Rocky
Most (80%) of the people I knew who went to college and completed had mommy and daddy pretty much fronting the bill.
It takes a willingness to sacrifice the toys and parties to be a success today. The government does not owe us an education. That is a concept that has caused more problems than it has solved. The middle class taxpayer cannot afford to send Rocky or any other young people to college. They do offer the GI bill which I know several people have used. Give to the country and they in return help you get a college education.
Well people should be able to do a alternative public service to get a college scholarship outside of joining the military. I couldn't imagine being in the military right now. :surprise:
-Rocky
-Rocky
Yes, they helped but couldn't afford to pay to pay all of it. I borrowed and got a few minor scholorships for my last two years for tuition and saved up with my summer jobs and the jobs I worked during the school year to pay my living expenses.
-Rocky
I can't even fathom the mess that would create.
I'm just saying kids today have three choices. #1 Mom and Dad pay for it or a spouse.
#2 College Loans with debt over your eyeballs.
#3 Don't go at all and risk staying at mediocre wage levels but that is becomingthe case no matter what.
-Rocky
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071113/AUTO01/711130376/1148- /rss25
Looks like a pass !!!!!
-Rocky
-rockylee
I worked for the school when I was in college and managed a repair shop during school breaks. Since I worked for the school I got very flexible hours and plenty of time to study/get work done. The last part of college I started working for UPS and once I graduated I just got a management job there. I still worked at my repair shop during the day. I was working 70 plus hours a week but I made enough money to pay off all of my credit card debt from college and buy a new car within 12 months of graduation. I also paid extra amounts on my student loans so I will actually be done paying them over a year or so early. I would have to look at my paperwork to see exactly how early it is. I don't bother to pay extra on them anymore since I would rather put that extra money into paying down my mortgage. That has a much higher interest rate then my student loans.
Oh and another thing student loan interest is tax deductible so it really costs you very little on an after tax basis.
BTW, your comment on the CTS has validity...also, even tho most union made cars for 20+ years were boat anchor junk, the Corvette always seemed to be rather well made...maybe those guys actually cared about the product...
Remember the workers can only make a product as good as it is engineered.
-Rocky
P.S. The CTS, is indeed a nice automobile. Well so is the Enclave, Acadia, Outlook, new Malibu, Aura, Lucerne, LaCrosse, G8, etc......
-Rocky
BTW, your comment on the CTS has validity...also, even tho most union made cars for 20+ years were boat anchor junk, the Corvette always seemed to be rather well made...maybe those guys actually cared about the product...
Also, no one OWES you anything in the way of an education...while we can debate whether or not an Ivy League degree is worth the monetary cost, there are hundreds of state schools that are much cheaper and still give a worthwhile education...
That you chose not to get one is fine...but just because your parents couldn't or wouldn't does not devalue the concept of higher education...but stop whining because your parents didn't buy you one...your union mentality of (welfare) entitlement, i.e. someone OWES me something, oozes out of every topic you seem to post about...
And there is nothing wrong with starting college today...aren't something like 30-40% of classes filled with people over 30???
If you want it, it is NEVER too late...you borrow money to buy a house, you borrow money to buy a car, why not borrow money to invest in yourself???...when you think about it, the one thing you can't conceive about borrowing for, an education, is the ONLY real investment in yourself worth borrowing for...you can rent an apartment, you can drive a beater, but once you have invested in yourself, it is yours forever...certainly worth going into debt over, IMO...
I respect all those who have gone to college, but some people think because you didn't get a college degree that you aren't as smart as they. About everyone I know who has completed it and the truth finally comes out say it was like going to high school and what they learned will not be applied onthe job.
I personally think their is to much waste in college and students are required to take worthless classes like History to obtain a skill trades degree. They need to clean up the slop that will shorten the time to obtain a degree and then perhaps the classes that mean something can be concentrated onlike they do in Germany
See I would make a good leader !!!!! :P
-Rocky
My father-in-law worked 32 years in the steel mills as an union iron worker. He saw the writing on the wall 20 years ago after being layed off in the early 80's and watching the company go down the tubes. He encouraged my MIL to go back to school (she was in her mid 40's), since he was concerned about their future . Good thing, cause LTV went belly up, he lost his job and got something like 50% of his pension. Now my mother-in-law is a manager in an accounting department and has a better paying job than he ever had. They won't have to eat dog food in retirement due to that decision and he fishes and tinkers and around while she's at work.
I've never made the comment or believe that those who don't go to college don't have intelligence. That's not the case at all. I personally know people who are very intelligent who didn't attend college. IMO, a degree in most cases only allows you to have more opportunities. Which if taken advantage of will provide rewards.
To me high school was BS and college was enlightening. I met people from all over the world (I had roommate from China and another from Korea) and learned things that I would never had otherwise. In my opinion a bachelor's degree should include a well rounded curriculum. Since when is history not important. A history class most likely won't help you on the job, but it certainly will make you a wiser person. Sure I took western civ from a Russian professor (talk about needing No-Doz) but I'm glad I had the class none the less.
As for trade skill degrees, if it is an associate or bachelor program, then history etc is required. But many tech schools offer certificate programs that just teach the nuts and bolts.
I also agree that taking History or Political Science is unnecessary if you are seeking training in any skilled trade...nice to know, but not necessary if you want to be a plumber or a welder...
For many, college may be a waste, except that it may serve to extend their adolescence by another 4 years, from age 18-22...but not for all...
I do not look down on those w/o college...first off, many of them are smarter than me (how could that be???... :P
I am aware that I have been fortunate to have received additional FORMAL education since high school...whenever someone mentions about going to college, I am the first to encourage them, as it is often a worthwhile experience...my formal education does not make me smarter, simply because for all I may know about law, someone else can build a house or paint a house, which is probably a more practical skill for real life than my knowledge of law...
Even if one attends college simply to broaden the mind, it may be worth it...can it be done at home by reading the same books???...probably yes, but, just like we are social creatures who mingle with other humans for social contact, similarly, arguing concepts in class often helps to sharpen and focus the mind, maybe better than sitting home and reading the same book during Jerry Springer commercial breaks...
No one should attend college just for the experience of paying tuition, but if the school has classes that can make you a different person, it may be worth the experience...
Some educations will lead to better income, some will not do that at all...but, for many if not most, it DOES have value...is someone a lesser person without college???...NO...NO...NO...NO...
For all my disagreements with you, and all those times I wonder how any human can arrive at the conclusions you reach (I do wonder, you know...
The person who I held in the highest esteem, while he was alive, on the planet earth was my father, a brilliant man if there ever was one, and he did not go beyond high school, but he was far smarter and savvy about the world than any college graduate I ever met...
I have completed many industrial classes like HazMat, Kaizen, Six-Sigma, Lean Manufactoring, Behavioral Based Safety, Ergonomics, Hi-Lo/Fork Truck courses, Truck Driving School for a CDL, just to name a few.
I also Lemko, did a little welding myself a 1/2 year worth but did not like it.
Well here's a couple of links from the UAW:
Who's afraid of a falling dollar?
http://www.uaw.org/atissue/atstory.cfm?atId=221
2008 VEHICLES BUILT BY UNION MEMBERS
IN THE UNITED STATES & CANADA
http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/auto/2008/index.cfm
-Rocky
#2 College Loans with debt over your eyeballs.
#3 Don't go at all and risk staying at mediocre wage levels but that is becomingthe case no matter what.
I'm in the camp that what it takes most is commitment.
The way most parents cover the costs is to let the kid stay at home during college.
I worked 25-30 hrs/week and full summers, took 5 years to get my bachelor's degree at a state school. I graduated with NO loans. With the availability of community colleges, you can go very cheaply for the first two years and then transfer to a 4-year university. Pick the right field and excellent salaries are available. Most people can afford to go, even today, if they are willing to sacrifice.
Also, become skilled in something that can't be outsourced. I'm not going to have a guy from India or China come over to America to fix my toilet and I'm not shipping my car overseas so Chang or Apu can fix it.
Exactly!
My stepson, who is 21, is working as an HVAC technician, doing commercial projects in Utah. He doesn't have a High School diploma - his mother, girlfriend and I are pushing for him to get his GED - but if he becomes good enough at what he does, he will be able to make a comfortable living from it.
My wife and I have commented many times on how that kind of skill cannot be outsourced.
My wife is someone who worked hard to get where she is today. She got married at 19, had 2 kids by the time she was 23 and was divorced at 28. She went back to school, got an Associates degree in Early Childhood Education, and went to work in the child care industry.
When I met her 10 years ago, she was making $7/hr as an assistant director. Today she is the director of early childhood programs for a small school district close to where we live and she's making over $50K a year.
But, she knows that isn't enough ... she has enrolled in school again to work towards her Bachelor's degree, as she believes the state of Colorado will toughen the standards for child care directors.
Actually learning one of the skilled trades is an education. Being able to do something that we all need from time to time will have a market for the foreseeable future. It usually requires harder physical labor and there is a limit as to how much you will make. It beats starving to death or working at Wally World.
I have completed many industrial classes like HazMat, Kaizen, Six-Sigma, Lean Manufactoring, Behavioral Based Safety, Ergonomics, Hi-Lo/Fork Truck courses, Truck Driving School for a CDL, just to name a few. I just recently (last week) completed a professional automobile training course to sell automobiles the proper way. So I might not have a college degree but I have obtained numerous licenses and certificates in my career. "
You have proven my point...you ARE obviously well educated and well trained, it just wasn't thru a "regular" college...so what...you have talents that cannot be taken away from you...
College can broaden the mind, but another poster said that it is better to have a skill than be well versed in the arts...well said...
Keep going and good luck...any chance I can get $2500 under invoice, less holdback, on a new Buick for my Mother???.. :shades:
I had 26 years on a local NJ Police Dept. and retired. Most Departments have a 25 year service and out pension plan plus all your benefits!!!!!
In fact, my son retires from a police force in Feb. 2008 (25 years) and my grandaughter has 8 years on the force.
NORTSR
UAW's Ford Workers Ratify Contract
Mmmm, crow and dressing for Thanksgiving. My favorite. :shades:
I'm in an NJ civil service job. Not the nice deal the police have (they earn that!) but good nonetheless. If I found another job now I could retire out of here at about half pay and health insurance. I've been here since about the Truman administration. Well, OK, only Carter...